• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is health care in the US a right?

Is health care a right?

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Kal'Stang said:
I honestly have no reason to think that they would listen. Take a look at what is happening now a days. We have Republicans calling Democrats facists, communists etc etc. We have Democrats calling Republicans neocons, racists, anti-american etc etc. ALL just because they don't agree with the other side. And through it all it has been proven that they don't even read the bills that they vote on. About the only say that anyone has in the whole issue as far as I am concerned is come election time when we can vote for who is in office. The only other way is if you have money and/or are famous and get on TV. I'm neither.
Click to expand...

I hear you & share your frustration .....but our political system is the only one we have, so we have to try to make it work. I think there just may be enough honest & decent pols from both sides of the aisle, that can eventually work together & forge a BETTER HC system than we presently have.
Will it be perfect?....No Way
Will it be better?...I think so (only time will tell)
 
Gwendoline said:
Whether I give a **** or not is up to others to say - the ones that know me, that is. You don't know me, so you don't count.

...
Click to expand...

And once again you missed the entire point of my post and responded with an off-topic rant about how we're immoral if we don't share your point of view (which you don't even really share, regardless of what you tell yourself).

Galen said:
Facts are facts, it doesn't matter how "tired" or "sick" you get. ;)
Click to expand...

You also missed the point of his post, which is that it's ridiculous to compare those statistics without adjusting for other factors that have nothing to do with availability/quality of health care, such as lifestyle choices, societal practices and racial distribution.

This is pretty basic stuff.

Beyond Those Health Care Numbers - New York Times

le1.bmp


le2.jpg


I feel like a broken record, but I'll keep posting this until people stop missing the point.
 
tlmorg02 said:
I think in a civilized, wealthy society, there should be enough compassion and intellect to allow all the right to be able to seek medical attention. The fact that many do not see this, simply shows me how much farther humanity has to evolve. Some of you are not far removed from barbarians.
Click to expand...

You have the right already to seek medical care... in fact, there hasn't been anyone in this country turned away from medical care in the last 20 years.... except from where Michele Obama worked that is...
 
"Is health care in the US a right?" - Blackdog

No.

Next question...
 
Blackdog said:
Yes it is (please explain)
No it is not (please explain)

I don't think it is a defined by the Constitution in any way. I feel it is just another move by the government for more control over our lives, period.
Click to expand...


In many cases working together as a team is more effective for the greater good than everyone working individually and being screwed by the insurance companies whose only aim is to make money for their shareholders. As a civilized nation there are certain standards for our people that we should aim for. We are not some poor third world country whose people are left in the streets to die, are we?

No matter how hard we study and work our butts off in this country to live the American dream, if one member of our family is unfortunate enough to get sick then the entire family can be sunk in one unlucky swoop. Any of you who dismisses the National Health system out of hand needs to pray that a loved one doesn't get sick. You'll soon change your mind on healthcare when you have to spend all your retirement savings to get treatment for a loved one. This happened to my colleague recently. Her 30 year old daughter was diagnosed with cancer. Her husband kicked her out and she was left without insurance. Now my colleague is spending all her retirement savings to get her daughter treatment.

We should all be allowed to have our own individual insurance policies that no-one can cancel or take away from us because they'll be making a loss to keep insuring us. We shouldn't have to pray that some idiot doesn't sack us because we are sick and then lose our health insurance as a result. It all shouldn't come down to luck!
 
Happy Days said:
In many cases working together as a team is more effective for the greater good than everyone working individually and being screwed by the insurance companies whose only aim is to make money for their shareholders. As a civilized nation there are certain standards for our people that we should aim for. We are not some poor third world country whose people are left in the streets to die, are we?

No matter how hard we study and work our butts off in this country to live the American dream, if one member of our family is unfortunate enough to get sick then the entire family can be sunk in one unlucky swoop. Any of you who dismisses the National Health system out of hand needs to pray that a loved one doesn't get sick. You'll soon change your mind on healthcare when you have to spend all your retirement savings to get treatment for a loved one. This happened to my colleague recently. Her 30 year old daughter was diagnosed with cancer. Her husband kicked her out and she was left without insurance. Now my colleague is spending all her retirement savings to get her daughter treatment.

We should all be allowed to have our own individual insurance policies that no-one can cancel or take away from us because they'll be making a loss to keep insuring us. We shouldn't have to pray that some idiot doesn't sack us because we are sick and then lose our health insurance as a result. It all shouldn't come down to luck!
Click to expand...

That all well and good, but it does not make health care a right.
 
Whether something is a right is a subjective question that can change with every SCOTUS decision. I think a better subjective question would be....... "Should HC in the U.S. be a right?"

To that I would say yes.
 
Last edited:
Devil505 said:
Whether something is a right is a subjective question that can change with every SCOTUS decision. I think a better subjective question would be....... "Should HC in the U.S. be a right?"

To that I would say yes.
Click to expand...

Constitutional rights are not subjective. They are outlined clearly in said document. The supreme court cannot give or take away rights. It can decide if you can or cannot do something according to the Constitution, but it cannot give or take away rights.

No HC should not be and is not a right.
 
Blackdog said:
Constitutional rights are not subjective. They are outlined clearly in said document. The supreme court cannot give or take away rights. It can decide if you can or cannot do something according to the Constitution, but it cannot give or take away rights.

No HC should not be and is not a right.
Click to expand...

The SCOTUS certainly can & does change the meaning of the Constitution by interpreting it & our Congress does change it by amendment. The 1865 13th & 14th Amendments outlawed your right to own slaves.
Ask.com Search Engine - Better Web Search
You used to have a right to wn slaves in this country b4 these amendments.
 
Devil505 said:
The SCOTUS certainly can & does change the meaning of the Constitution by interpreting it & our Congress does change it by amendment. The 1865 13th & 14th Amendments outlawed your right to own slaves.
Ask.com Search Engine - Better Web Search
You used to have a right to wn slaves in this country b4 these amendments.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with your original assertation that the SCOTUS can take away or give rights, or that they are subjective...

"Whether something is a right is a subjective question that can change with every SCOTUS decision. I think a better subjective question would be....... "Should HC in the U.S. be a right?"

To that I would say yes." - Devil505

You never said anything about an act of Congress.

So again, it does not make it a right.

So your reply was pretty much nothing but a fallacy argument that completely ignores your initial comment to which I was responding.

Nice try though.
 
Last edited:
Blackdog said:
Has nothing to do with your original assertation that the SCOTUS can take away or give rights, or that they are subjective...

"Whether something is a right is a subjective question that can change with every SCOTUS decision. I think a better subjective question would be....... "Should HC in the U.S. be a right?"

To that I would say yes." - Devil505

You never said anything about an act of Congress.

So again, it does not make it a right.

So your reply was pretty much nothing but a fallacy argument that completely ignores your initial comment to which I was responding.

Nice try though.
Click to expand...

None of which is of any real importance to the thread topic.
(We always seem to get bogged down in the semantic weed forest)
I think the topic is meant to discuss whether or not one feels that HC should be a......... given, (noun)

1. That which is just, morally good, legal, proper, or fitting.

dictionary: right - Ask.com Search




& I think it should be in this country, as it is in many others.
 
Devil505 said:
None of which is of any real importance to the thread topic.
Click to expand...

I made the thread and know exactly what it is about. Yes they are important.

Devil505 said:
(We always seem to get bogged down in the semantic weed forest)
Click to expand...

No. We always get bogged down with your trying to twist out of what you said, like just now. Let's be truthful here.

Devil505 said:
I think the topic is meant to discuss whether or not one feels that HC should be a......... given, (noun)
Click to expand...

I made the topic. I was asking if you think it is a right or not, that simple. You gave your reasons and I rebutted them. Exactly why I made the topic in the first place.

Devil505 said:
1. That which is just, morally good, legal, proper, or fitting.

dictionary: right - Ask.com Search

& I think it should be in this country, as it is in many others.
Click to expand...

This is your opinion and that is cool.

It does not change your wrong answer to a reply I made to someone else. :doh
 
Blackdog said:
I made the thread and know exactly what it is about.
Click to expand...

Your thread title left room to interpret the word "Right" to mean either the strict, Constitutional meaning (your interpretation) or the broader, more generic definition of the word, that I chose to respond too.

I don't think you can successfully argue that only your, strict legal definition of the word "Right" is clearly the ONLY choice one could choose to respond to.:)

If we accept that interpretation, the question you pose is a very narrow, strictly legal semantics question of no real interest to anyone but Constitutional lawyers.
 
Last edited:
Devil505 said:
Your thread title left room to interpret the word "Right" to mean either the strict, Constitutional meaning (your interpretation) or the broader, more generic definition of the word, that I chose to respond too.

I don't think you can successfully argue that only your, strict legal definition of the word "Right" is clearly the ONLY choice one could choose to respond to.:)

If we accept that interpretation, the question you pose is a very narrow, strictly legal semantics question of no real interest to anyone but Constitutional lawyers.
Click to expand...

There is of course the possibility that you meant your thread to be a trap.......Hoping someone would respond with the broader interpretation of the word "Right" only so that you could spring your "Trap" of saying that their argument failed, since it didn't address the strict, Constitutional meaning that you could claim you meant.;)

(that would have been deceitful & therefore I choose not to believe that possibility.:)
 
Devil505 said:
Your thread title left room to interpret the word "Right" to mean either the strict, Constitutional meaning (your interpretation) or the broader, more generic definition of the word, that I chose to respond too.
Click to expand...

This is correct and I have no problem with it. Now you don't get bent out of shape because I disagree and correct the statement that the SCOTUS gives or takes away rights.

Devil505 said:
I don't think you can successfully argue that only your, strict legal definition of the word "Right" is clearly the ONLY choice one could choose to respond to.:)
Click to expand...

I agree but the Constitution is quite clear on what rights we have. Only an act of Congress can change that.

Devil505 said:
If we accept that interpretation, the question you pose is a very narrow, strictly legal semantics question of no real interest to anyone but Constitutional lawyers.
Click to expand...

Really? :lol:
 
Devil505 said:
There is of course the possibility that you meant your thread to be a trap.......Hoping someone would respond with the broader interpretation of the word "Right" only so that you could spring your "Trap" of saying that their argument failed, since it didn't address the strict, Constitutional meaning that you could claim you meant.;)
Click to expand...

Look at the other responses in the thread. Look at how many.

That comment is absolutely stupid.

I corrected your wrong assumption about the SCOTUS and how it applys, nothing more. Get over it and stop with the fallacy twisting yet AGAIN.

Devil505 said:
(that would have been deceitful & therefore I choose not to believe that possibility.:)
Click to expand...

Yes it would be and I wear my emotions and intentions on my sleeve, so that's that.
 
Last edited:
To restart the debate on the question posed by this thread:

Health care in the USA is not currently a right.

Should it be?

I think not.

If, however, laws can be passed providing HC for a portion of or even all of the population, would that make it a right?

No.

If Congress passed an Amendment enshrining HC as a right, would that make it a right?

Not in my mind.

So.

Not only is there no current right to HC, but in my view, there never will be.
 
The Mark said:
To restart the debate on the question posed by this thread:

Health care in the USA is not currently a right.

Should it be?

I think not.

If, however, laws can be passed providing HC for a portion of or even all of the population, would that make it a right?

No.

If Congress passed an Amendment enshrining HC as a right, would that make it a right?

Not in my mind.

So.

Not only is there no current right to HC, but in my view, there never will be.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I was thinking along similar lines as you. No reason exist in this country for the people to have reasonably priced health care. Part of the problem is because of insurance no competition exist in the market so you get all the hyper inflated prices.

I am not sure how but we need to make the entire health industry compete. This would lower prices and cause people to look for the best deals rather than just going to a doctor and not looking at prices.

Competition rather than forcing by government would have longer term good effects and actually be good for the consumer and Burnes alike. No band aid is needed. Best part is the government would not be footing the bill.

This is just a start but it would be a better place to start then government control.
 
Last edited:
Blackdog said:
No reason exist in this country for the people to have reasonably priced health care.
Click to expand...

Then why do we (as a society) find it reasonable to protect each other from fire by paying taxes to have a fire dept. in every community in the country?


Then why do we (as a society) find it reasonable to pay for a federal Coast Guard to save many people in peril at sea?


Some things we do collectively because it is just the right & moral thing to do. Providing reasonably priced HC for all is such a thing.
 
Devil505 said:
Then why do we (as a society) find it reasonable to protect each other from fire by paying taxes to have a fire dept. in every community in the country?


Then why do we (as a society) find it reasonable to pay for a federal Coast Guard to save many people in peril at sea?


Some things we do collectively because it is just the right & moral thing to do. Providing reasonably priced HC for all is such a thing.
Click to expand...

If you read the rest of the post you would see that makes no sense at all.

It was supposed to say "No reason exist in this country for the people not to have reasonably priced health care.."

Please read the whole post, you would have seen that the sentence made no sense as I made a typo.
 
Blackdog said:
If you read the rest of the post you would see that makes no sense at all.

It was supposed to say "No reason exist in this country for the people not to have reasonably priced health care.."

Please read the whole post, you would have seen that the sentence made no sense as I made a typo.
Click to expand...


I'm not a mind reader. I can only respond to what people actually say....Not what they meant to say.
If that is what you believe, then we are in agreement.

You originally said:

Blackdog said:
. No reason exist in this country for the people to have reasonably priced health care.
Click to expand...


So it's my mistake for reading your words accurately??
 
Last edited:
Devil505 said:
I'm not a mind reader. I can only respond to what people actually say....Not what they meant to say.
If that is what you believe, then we are in agreement.

You originally said:




So it's my mistake for reading your words accurately??
Click to expand...

While true, the overall theme and tone of the rest of his post should have given you reason to question that statement, and ask if he, perhaps, had mis-typed.
 
Devil505 said:
I'm not a mind reader. I can only respond to what people actually say....Not whjat they meant to say.

You said:
Click to expand...

You did not read the whole post or if you did you still zoomed into one part that was out of place. Do you honestly think anyone would say we do not deserve reasonably priced health care? Common sense.

I don't expect anyone to be a mind reader, I do expect people to use common sense.
 
The Mark said:
While true, the overall theme and tone of the rest of his post should have given you reason to question that statement, and ask if he, perhaps, had mis-typed.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any reason to go beyond his first statement, which was so blatantly wrong/immoral that I went no further in his post.
Words are important...That's all we have in these forums so.......Proofread a bit or go back & edit.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom