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Do you believe that opposition to Obama is mostly based on his race

Is opposition to Obama mostly due to his race?

  • Total voters
    106
Devil505 said:
The real point is this country elected Obama in large part based on his pledge to reform HC & it will get done. Take that to the bank.
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If we assume that you are correct, and the USA elected Pres. Obama mostly because he promised to reform HC, then it follows that:

If he doesn't, people will be upset.

If he, in their view, does it incorrectly, people will be upset, and not support it.

If he, in their view, does it only partially, people will be upset, and not support it.

If he does it perfectly according to 5 people, the rest will not like that specific method and get upset, potentially not supporting it.

So saying "you can take that to the bank" in regards to Pres. Obama getting it passed would, IMO, be incorrect.
 
The Mark said:
If we assume that you are correct, and the USA elected Pres. Obama mostly because he promised to reform HC, then it follows that:

If he doesn't, people will be upset.

If he, in their view, does it incorrectly, people will be upset, and not support it.

If he, in their view, does it only partially, people will be upset, and not support it.

If he does it perfectly according to 5 people, the rest will not like that specific method and get upset, potentially not supporting it.

So saying "you can take that to the bank" in regards to Pres. Obama getting it passed would, IMO, be incorrect.
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I guess I see your point in that what is taken to the bank is unclear.
My basic concern is that I want Obama to do the foillowing:

1. Get rid of pre-existing health problems from preventing someone from getting coverage.
2. Make HC portable & not tied to ypour job
3. Make it affordable for every citizen


Call it what you will...I think those 3 things would be a good start.
(Personally, I'd like to see the profit motive taken completely out of HC...We don't have fire departments who put out fire for profit so why have insurance companies profit from the sick?)
 
Devil505 said:
1. Get rid of pre-existing health problems from preventing someone from getting coverage.
2. Make HC portable & not tied to ypour job
3. Make it affordable for every citizen
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all are good ideas
none require government taking over HC
 
Devil505 said:
I guess I see your point in that what is taken to the bank is unclear.
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Excellent.

Devil505 said:
My basic concern is that I want Obama to do the following:

1. Get rid of pre-existing health problems from preventing someone from getting coverage.
2. Make HC portable & not tied to your job
3. Make it affordable for every citizen

Call it what you will...I think those 3 things would be a good start.
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These are all good goals.
However, I feel that they can be accomplished without changing to UHC.

Devil505 said:
(Personally, I'd like to see the profit motive taken completely out of HC...We don't have fire departments who put out fire for profit so why have insurance companies profit from the sick?)
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I disagree.
IMO, the profit motive is one of the key reasons our current HC is so good. There is profit to be made in keeping people alive and in good health, as people will pay for such care.
Further, medical insurance companies do not profit from the sick. They profit from the healthy. A healthy customer who pays their monthly bill on time is the perfect medical insurance client.
 
The Mark said:
Then we disagree on that point.
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That would seem to be the major sticking point between the 2 sides.
IMO, any HC reform without a public option would not provide enough cost savings to the consumer as we would still be paying the high profits of the HC providers. Profit must be removed from the equation & that is the fundamental thing that's ruining the current system & will make any reforms that still require consumers paying profits meaningless.
 
Devil505 said:
That would seem to be the major sticking point between the 2 sides.
IMO, any HC reform without a public option would not provide enough cost savings to the consumer as we would still be paying the high profits of the HC providers. Profit must be removed from the equation & that is the fundamental thing that's ruining the current system & will make any reforms that still require consumers paying profits meaningless.
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than you do not want Obamas plan
his does not wipe out the Health insurance companies.........immediately
 
Devil505 said:
That would seem to be the major sticking point between the 2 sides.
IMO, any HC reform without a public option would not provide enough cost savings to the consumer as we would still be paying the high profits of the HC providers. Profit must be removed from the equation & that is the fundamental thing that's ruining the current system & will make any reforms that still require consumers paying profits meaningless.
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And IMO, completely removing profit from the equation would lead to reductions in quality, availability, and rapidity of medical care.

In my mind, those aspects of medical care separately and even more so in concert, trump cost as a deciding factor.

I note a difference between the terms we are using: You use “health care” and I use “medical care.”

Perhaps we are talking about two different things?
 
DeeJayH said:
than you do not want Obamas plan
his does not wipe out the Health insurance companies.........immediately
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I don't need them wiped out. I just want the option of not paying them a profit. If they can compete with a government plan nby providing reasonably priced coverage...then there is no need to wipe them out. They would simply be another choice we all have to buy a product. (ie...competition)
 
The Mark said:
And IMO, completely removing profit from the equation would lead to reductions in quality, availability, and rapidity of medical care.
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I simply disagree with your opinion. The government HC programs the Congress, the military & all government employees have is excellent in quality. (I'm unaware of a single Congressman or Senator that has opted out of the government option,..EVER...from either party!....What does that tell you?)

The Mark said:
I note a difference between the terms we are using: You use “health care” and I use “medical care.”

Perhaps we are talking about two different things?
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I think we are talking about the same thing. Whatever you call it, I'd like to see all citizens be able to afford the same type of medical coverage that Sen. John McCain has enjoyed all his life.......A government option.
 
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Devil505 said:
I simply disagree with your opinion. The government HC programs the Congress, the military & all government employees have is excellent in quality. (I'm unaware of a single Congressman or Senator that has opted out of the government option,..EVER...from either party!....What does that tell you?)




I think we are talking about the same thing. Whatever you call it, I'd like to see all citizens be able to afford the same type of medical coverage that Sen. John McCain has enjoyed all his life.......A government option.
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than why aren't congress and the president going to be in this 'great public option'
a member of congress tried to add that requirement to the bill.
it got no traction
I

I will accept UHC the day it is used by those who imposed it
 
DeeJayH said:
than why aren't congress and the president going to be in this 'great public option'
a member of congress tried to add that requirement to the bill.
it got no traction
I

I will accept UHC the day it is used by those who imposed it
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Congress & the President are already covered by the public option that we should all have. All your federal reps have it....they just don't want YOU to have it because the HC Industry is bribing them.....Oops.....I meant giving Campaign Contributions.(both sides of the aisle, btw)
 
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Devil505 said:
Congress & the President are already covered by the public option that we should all have. All your federal reps have it....they just don't want YOU to have it because the HC Industry is bribing them.(both sides of the aisle, btw)
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what is being proposed is not what Obama and congress have
if it was they would not have shot down the amendment requiring them to be included in this grand masterpiece of healthcare

try looking behind the curtains for once

if it is so good, why dont they include themselves??????????????????
 
DeeJayH said:
what is being proposed is not what Obama and congress have
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b4 we get to far off the track, nothing has gotten beyond the point of simply proposals, so far....so there is no final version to argue over....yet.

Let's try to bring this back to basics:



Are you against any of the following:

1. Covering all citizens , regardless of pre-existing medical conditions?

2. Taking what will be covered out of the hands of insurance company accountants?

3. Making medical coverage available & affordable to all citizens, & portable?


If we can't agree on a few basics we have no chance of agreeing at all.
 
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Devil505 said:
b4 we get to far off the track, nothing has gotten beyond the point of simply proposals, so far....so there is no final version to argue over....yet.
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3

there is a 1000+ page document that Obama wanted signed a while back which says BS to your bogus claim

there is a 1000+page document that not even a congressman with lawyers can not understand


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACbwND52rrw"]YouTube - John Conyers on Reading the Healthcare Bill[/ame]
 
DeeJayH said:
3

there is a 1000+ page document that Obama wanted signed a while back which says BS to your bogus claim
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Are you claiming that document represents the final version of a bill that will be presented to Congress?


If so....you are quite wrong.
 
Devil505 said:
Are you claiming that document represents the final version of a bill that will be presented to Congress?


If so....you are quite wrong.
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it was already presented to congress you nimrod
why are you being so ****ing obtuse
it failed prior to summer vacation
you are touting the Huffington post spin machine with this final bill bull****
 
DeeJayH said:
it was already presented to congress you nimrod
why are you being so ****ing obtuse
it failed prior to summer vacation
you are touting the Huffington post spin machine with this final bill bull****
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Listen you JERkkkk! It may have been presented to the House of Representatives but it wasn't presented to the Senate! (only the final HC reform bill version will be sent to both)

Congress = the House AND the Senate

SO....it wasn't presented to CONGRESS! (go to school & learn something!)
 
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Devil505 said:
Listen you JERkkkk! It may have been presented to the House of Representatives but it wasn't presented to the Senate! (only the final HC reform bill version will be sent to both)

Congress = the House AND the Senate

SO....it wasn't presented to CONGRESS! (go to school & learn something!)
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it passed the house and the senate refused to vote on it before summer vacation despite Dear Leaders pressure to do so
 
Devil505 said:
I simply disagree with your opinion. The government HC programs the Congress, the military & all government employees have is excellent in quality.
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I don't know if you are correct or not. I have heard bad things about the military setup, however. Not as much as the current non-military setup, perhaps.

Devil505 said:
(I'm unaware of a single Congressman or Senator that has opted out of the government option...EVER...from either party! What does that tell you?).
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If true, it tells me that their medical care plan(s) are free to them and high enough in quality that private insurance plans are not a better option. On the other hand, many if not most elected officials are wealthy enough that they could probably pay out of pocket, so it may be they just don't bother opting out.

Devil505 said:
I think we are talking about the same thing. Whatever you call it, I'd like to see all citizens be able to afford the same type of medical coverage that Sen. John McCain has enjoyed all his life.......A government option.
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See above response, as it has bearing on this.
Further, as I understand the current plan, it will in no way equal that which you suggest.

Perhaps you could outline what, precisely, you would want in your public medical plan.
 
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