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Do you believe that opposition to Obama is mostly based on his race

Is opposition to Obama mostly due to his race?

  • Total voters
    106
Devil505 said:
Of course you have a right to your opinion but would you mind explaining what led you to that opinion?

To me that would like having an opinion that if you like vanilla ice cream....you are probably not a good bowler??????
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In part, I was led to the opinion that I stated because of other beliefs that I hold.

Namely, that bigotry is not a natural human trait. Fear of change and the unknown is, and this can be construed as bigotry, but they are not the same.

I also believe that actual bigots are vastly in the minority in the US.

I further believe that no one group of people has a monopoly on bigotry. It is in general evenly distributed across all artificial divisions, as are all other negative personality traits.

In my mind, it then follows that, if someone believes a majority segment of those who oppose Pres. Obama do so because of his skin color, they are bigoted against those who oppose Pres. Obama.
 
Devil505 said:
I'm done trying to discuss anything with you. You don't want to debate issues....You just want to start fights & make personal attacks! Why don't you just goto a school yard, wait for recess & then pick a fight with anyone at random.
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I'm pretty sure it was you who quoted me in a post where I was conversing with someone else, so who actually did the "picking"? Indeed, it was you.

And aren't you the one who said that your "preferred" methodology around here is to bait people and rile them up? Indeed, you were that one.
 
The Mark said:
In part, I was led to the opinion that I stated because of other beliefs that I hold.

Namely, that bigotry is not a natural human trait. Fear of change and the unknown is, and this can be construed as bigotry, but they are not the same.

I also believe that actual bigots are vastly in the minority in the US.
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I agree with most of what you say & I never claimed that opposition to Obama means the person must be a bigot. The topic question is: "Do you believe that opposition to Obama is mostly based on his race?"
I say YES to that in that the many lies & smears (Obama wants to kill old people, etc) are BASED from a few GOP bigots who lead the party. (Limbaugh, etc) Most of the rest of the Obama opposers simply bought the lies they keep hearing, but are probably not bigots.

The Mark said:
I further believe that no one group of people has a monopoly on bigotry. It is in general evenly distributed across all artificial divisions, as are all other negative personality traits.
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True to an extent, but the far right have much more propensity for racism & violence than the left. Do you disagree with that?
 
Harshaw said:
I'm pretty sure it was you who quoted me in a post where I was conversing with someone else, so who actually did the "picking"? Indeed, it was you.

And aren't you the one who said that your "preferred" methodology around here is to bait people and rile them up? Indeed, you were that one.
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Funny how only certain members dissolve almost all their posts into personal/childish attacks & you are one of them.
Take , for example my conversation with Mark (above)
We both seem to be able to get our points/opinions across without the need for grade school attacks, even though we totally disagree. There was actually some useful information exchanged.

Why can't you do the same?
 
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Devil505 said:
Funny how only certain members dissolve almost all their posts into personal/childish attacks & you are one of them.
Take , for example my conversation with Mark (above)
We both seem to be able to get our points/opinions across without the need for grade school attacks, even though we totally disagree. There was actually some useful information exchanged.

Why can't you do the same?
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:roll:

1) Pointing out your hypocrisy is not a "personal attack." If I called you a "butthead," or called your relationship with your mother into question, it would be. I didn't. I referred to what you posted, and the manner in which you did so, particularly vis-a-vis what you accuse me of.

2) You make one civil post, conveniently AFTER you get called on your own behavior, and you hold it up as the pinnacle of virtue. You might want to look back through the hundreds of your own posts.

It really just comes down to this -- after all the lashing out, after all the vitriol, after all the self-admitted "baiting," after all the unreason . . . you bring it on yourself.

And yes . . . people who simply assume racism on the part of others, regardless of any actual evidence of it, DO perpetuate problems WITH racism.
 
Harshaw;1058204186 And yes . . . people who simply [I said:
assume[/I] racism on the part of others, regardless of any actual evidence of it, DO perpetuate problems WITH racism.
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people who simply DENY racism perpetuate problems WITH racism....

Just yesterday I heard a nice old gentleman say "blacks and mexicans" with an inflection and in a context that indicates racism.

What is kind of funny is when one of those secretly bigoted white men finds out that his daughter is living "in sin" with one....or one of his kids adopts a black child.
 
UtahBill said:
people who simply DENY racism perpetuate problems WITH racism....
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I don't, but you have to understand the context in which I said that.

For example, there is no -- NO -- evidence that Senate Republicans voted against Sotomayor because she's Hispanic. But there are those -- on this board, in this thread -- who have their minds absolutely locked shut around the idea that the only reason they possibly could have is because of racism.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about here.
 
Harshaw said:
I don't, but you have to understand the context in which I said that.

For example, there is no -- NO -- evidence that Senate Republicans voted against Sotomayor because she's Hispanic. But there are those -- on this board, in this thread -- who have their minds absolutely locked shut around the idea that the only reason they possibly could have is because of racism.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about here.
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It didn't help that she made that old white man statement. It made her sound as tho she will be pro minorities in her future decisions.
Pretty much all of us have some prejudices that we are not aware of until a situation occurs that triggers such thinking. We are victims of our environment in that respect. The ones I know who never attended college have SOME excuse, the ones I know who are college graduates should know better.:cool:
 
Harshaw said:
. . people who simply assume racism on the part of others, regardless of any actual evidence of it, DO perpetuate problems WITH racism.
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I re-post a few links showing evidence of racism against Obama which you clearly deny exists. I never claimed ALL opposition to Obama is racist, but to deny that I haven't provided any evidence to back up my belief is simply untrue.




Racist Attacks on Obama Growing More Heated | Hatewatch | Southern Poverty Law Center

Inland GOP mailing depicts Obama's face on food stamp | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

War on Racism: Threats Against Obama Growing as Inauguration Nears

Racist Incidents Give Some Obama Campaigners Pause - washingtonpost.com




(actual links on page 12 of this thread)
 
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Devil505 said:
I re-post a few links showing evidence of racism against Obama which you clearly deny exists. I never claimed ALL opposition to Obama is racist, but to deny that I haven't provided any evidence to back up my belief is simply untrue.
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No, you said it mostly is, and I never claimed that it doesn't exist at all.
 
Harshaw said:
No, you said it mostly is, and I never claimed that it doesn't exist at all.
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I said most opposition is BASED on race coming from the lies being spread by GOP leaders. They are the racists, not necessarily the dummies who fall for their lies.



Devil505 said:
I agree with most of what you say & I never claimed that opposition to Obama means the person must be a bigot. The topic question is: "Do you believe that opposition to Obama is mostly based on his race?"
I say YES to that in that the many lies & smears (Obama wants to kill old people, etc) are BASED from a few GOP bigots who lead the party. (Limbaugh, etc) Most of the rest of the Obama opposers simply bought the lies they keep hearing, but are probably not bigots.
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Devil505 said:
I said most opposition is BASED on race coming from the lies being spread by GOP leaders. They are the racists, not necessarily the dummies who fall for their lies.
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Here was your statement:

Devil505 said:
I say YES to the question. Most opposition to Obama is racially based, & yes...I truly believe that.

Most Americans are not racists, & more voters voted for Obama then voted for McCain.
The question is aimed at the opposition to Obama & yes, I feel that tghe core of it is indeed race based. Oh, the far right racists will find 10 million reasons they will CLAIM why they don't like Obama: His economic policies, his use of diplomcy, his HC reform ideas...etc

These, IMO are just dodges & as Senator DeMint honestly said, the right wants to "Break" Obama & I believe it is mainly racists thinking.


Is it possible to not be a racist & dislike Obama's policies? ...Of course!

Do I think that is most often the case with anti Obama people? Not on your life. I think it is mainly racist.
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The emphasis was yours, not mine.

But even if you decided you had to narrow it to look more reasonable, there's still no evidence that the opposition to Obama on the part of the "leadership" is based in racism. Do you really think they'd be on board with Obama's policies and plans if he were white? Really? Seriously, really?
 
Harshaw said:
Do you really think they'd be on board with Obama's policies and plans if he were white? Really? Seriously, really?
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Fair question.

1. I believe that much of the GOP opposition comes from the fact that Obama is a Democrat & that the present day GOP leadership puts party way above country. (Disloyal Opposition)

2. I do believe that if Obama was a white Democrat, the GOP leadership opposition (the basis of most opposition against Obama) would not be as strident against him. I therefore think they (GOP leaders) are cynically using the fear of a black man as their BASIS for most anti-Obama rhetoric & opposition. They are using this fear like a club to beat down their opponents & to try to scare the voter. (I think they'd be much more prone to negotiate their differences with a white President than with Obama, just because they think they can get away with being stubborn when race is taken into account)
Yes...FEAR is still their main tactic & they can't see that it doesn't work anymore. It's costing them elections!

In terms of winning elections, the GOP's fear tactics have turned into a nightmare for GOP supporters & a Godsend for the Dems.
 
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Even if racism isn't used as the basis for opposition, it is certainly being used as a weapon. The GOP knows that the lower hanging fruit of the party is easily manipulated by feeding their fears.
 
UtahBill said:
Even if racism isn't used as the basis for opposition, it is certainly being used as a weapon. The GOP knows that the lower hanging fruit of the party is easily manipulated by feeding their fears.
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So now seniors are "lower hanging fruit", meaning I surmise that they are intellectually bereft (senile) and incapable of listening to both sides and coming to their own conclusions. What about a $500 billion cut in medicare seems like a racist argument to you? I don't see racism and bigotry rampant anywhere but in the democrat party and the liberal socialist movement. That perception and your apparent opinion of the American people as being much lower on the intellectual tree than yourself belies a contemptible egotism that is pervasive in the democrat party.
 
LowRevs said:
So now seniors are "lower hanging fruit", meaning I surmise that they are intellectually bereft (senile) and incapable of listening to both sides and coming to their own conclusions. What about a $500 billion cut in medicare seems like a racist argument to you? I don't see racism and bigotry rampant anywhere but in the democrat party and the liberal socialist movement. That perception and your apparent opinion of the American people as being much lower on the intellectual tree than yourself belies a contemptible egotism that is pervasive in the democrat party.
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I never said seniors....
You are not being honest when you make such assumptions.
Check my age, I am a senior...

The uneducated among us are easily manipulated by the educated and if don't think it happens, you haven't been around very long.

Another assumption, me a democrat? I voted for ONE democrat a long time ago, and repented soon thereafter. But I also apologize for voting for Bush Lite.....
 
Devil505 said:
I agree with most of what you say & I never claimed that opposition to Obama means the person must be a bigot. The topic question is: "Do you believe that opposition to Obama is mostly based on his race?"
I say YES to that in that the many lies & smears (Obama wants to kill old people, etc) are BASEd from a few GOP bigots who lead the party. (Limbaugh, etc) Most of the rest of the Obama opposers simply bought the lies they keep hearing, but are probably not bigots.
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:lamo

you justify your opinion of MOST based on the actions of a FEW

:lamo

you are a priceless addition to DP. Do you write your own material?
 
DeeJayH said:
:lamo

you justify your opinion of MOST based on the actions of a FEW:lamo

you are a priceless addition to DP. Do you write your own material?
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If the few just happen to lead/represent the most, it is fair to let the most share the blame.
 
Devil505 said:
Fair question.

1. I believe that much of the GOP opposition comes from the fact that Obama is a Democrat & that the present day GOP leadership puts party way above country. (Disloyal Opposition)
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I agree with the first part and don't entirely disagree with the second part, but the Democrats are no better when they're in the minority. So, vitriol should not be reserved for one side of the aisle alone.


2. I do believe that if Obama was a white Democrat, the GOP leadership opposition (the basis of most opposition against Obama) would not be as strident against him.
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Why? Opposition to the LAST health care bill was every bit as strident.


I therefore think they (GOP leaders) are cynically using the fear of a black man as their BASIS for most anti-Obama rhetoric & opposition.
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How? You can't just say that; you can't just point to examples of racism; you need examples of things they're doing to foment this.


(I think they'd be much more prone to negotiate their differences with a white President than with Obama, just because they think they can get away with being stubborn when race is taken into account)
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Which does not follow from the last time a huge health care bill came along. They were just as animated and managed to parlay it into a Congressional election landslide.

Also keep in mind that Obama is doing some unprecedented things -- such as the most insanely huge budget deficit ever, and one which will carry from year to year -- and even if he makes good on his promise to cut it in "half" in X number of years, it'll still be about twice the deficit of any previous president.

And, we have not had a president since Carter with an agenda as unabashedly left-liberal.

So, there are many, many novel factors in play other than just race.



In terms of winning elections, the GOP's fear tactics have turned into a nightmare for GOP supporters & a Godsend for the Dems.
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Polling data doesn't show that. Dems are slipping; self-identified conservatives are on the rise.

Witness, too, the terms in which proponents of this bill feel they need to couch the arguments for this bill -- conservative-sounding terms like "controlling costs" and "increasing competition." If they thought left-liberalism was in ascendancy, why would they bother? This is a left-liberal bill.
 
No there would still be 50% ish against it as there is on nearly any issue when a president of ethier party is in charge.
 
Harshaw said:
Polling data doesn't show that. Dems are slipping; self-identified conservatives are on the rise.
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Don't have time to respond to all your points right now but I wanted to quickly take your last point:

Do you really think "Polling Data" means anything at all??
Polling data are just "Guesses" & totally unreliable.
Election Results are the only real measure of voter opinion &, based on the election results since 2006, the GOP is not doing very well, are they?
 
Devil505 said:
Don't have time to respond to all your points right now but I wanted to quickly take your last point:

Do you really think "Polling Data" means anything at all??
Polling data are just "Guesses" & totally unreliable.
Election Results are the only real measure of voter opinion &, based on the election results since 2006, the GOP is not doing very well, are they?
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It is the only thing we have gauge what opposition to Obama and those "fear tactics" are doing re: the electorate. There haven't been any elections since.

As for 2006 and 2008, what GOP "fear tactics" and "racism" were in play, and how did they drive voters to the Democrats, moreso than a whole panaroma of other factors? And did you not notice similar "fear tactics" from the Democrats all through those years?

Using broad election results as proof of a very narrow point is . . . not valid. Hundreds of millions of people vote for their own wide and varied reasons.
 
Harshaw said:
It is the only thing we have gauge what opposition to Obama and those "fear tactics" are doing re: the electorate. There haven't been any elections since.

As for 2006 and 2008, what GOP "fear tactics" and "racism" were in play, and how did they drive voters to the Democrats, moreso than a whole panaroma of other factors? And did you not notice similar "fear tactics" from the Democrats all through those years?

Using broad election results as proof of a very narrow point is . . . not valid. Hundreds of millions of people vote for their own wide and varied reasons.
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Are you really going to deny that the GOP used fear as a tactic much more than the Dems? (Obama Pals around with terrorists, Obama will take you guns away, Obama is an illegal alien who should be deported, Obama is a racist who hates white people,..etc...etc...etc)
I believe the election results were a direct rejection of these lies....Dont you?

Really, you deny that the Repubs use fear much more than the Dems??
 
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Devil505 said:
Are you really going to deny that the GOP used fear as a tactic much more than the Dems? (Obama Pals around with terrorists, Obama will take you guns away, Obama is an illegal alien who should be deported, Obama is a racist who hates white people,..etc...etc...etc)

Really, you deny that??
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:roll:

Yeah, I sure as hell will. (Bush is going to bring back the draft! If the assault weapons ban expires, blood will run in the streets! McCain wants 100 years of war! Republicans are going to take away Social Security! )
 
Harshaw said:
:roll:

Yeah, I sure as hell will. (Bush is going to bring back the draft! If the assault weapons ban expires, blood will run in the streets! McCain wants 100 years of war! Republicans are going to take away Social Security! )
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OK...So what is your explanation for the GOP loses in recent national elections?
 
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