Is dissent the highest form of patriotism?

The problem is that for most nations patriotism is somewhat like a tribal thing, loyalty to tribe, but in America we gain our identity from founding principals and to some extent others which have come after.

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However, you have already stated that the "we" and the "our" you are referring to is not limited to those "in America" but merely to anyone that agrees with these "founding principals". Thus, your patriotism is not actually patriotism but merely adherence to liberal ideology (if indeed that is what you are referring to when you say "founding principals").

Shadow Serious said:

America's patriotism has to do more with its ideals than territory specifically. So do you believe in the ideals on what our country was founded?

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I do believe in the founding principles but a lot of people that claim to be patriotic don't, even though they may give lip service to it.

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked them to follow those founding principles they wouldn't.

Ethereal said:

No, service to one's country is the highest form of patriotism. Dissent comes in a close second.

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Can be either, depending on the time frame and the involvement.
Dissent must be done well, this is not easy. Martin L. King did this well, but I do not.
Service to one's nation during peace time means little,IMO..
Thanks to the Islamic extremists, we may not have peace for 20 years or more....

Harry Guerrilla said:

I think that patriotism is a foolish concept to be honest.

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I must disagree. A reasoned measured patriotism, one that starts with your local community, moving onto your region and then your nation is in my opinion an excellent thing and a great bulwark against tyranny.

I do wonder though how realistic it can be to be patriotic for a nation as large as the US where you can know so little about most of it and its people.

Wessexman said:

I must disagree. A reasoned measured patriotism, one that starts with your local community, moving onto your region and then your nation is in my opinion an excellent thing and a great bulwark against tyranny.

I do wonder though how realistic it can be to be patriotic for a nation as large as the US where you can know so little about most of it and its people.

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Damn good to have you back my friend.

Wessexman said:

I must disagree. A reasoned measured patriotism, one that starts with your local community, moving onto your region and then your nation is in my opinion an excellent thing and a great bulwark against tyranny.

I do wonder though how realistic it can be to be patriotic for a nation as large as the US where you can know so little about most of it and its people.

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That is why I generally question a universal U.S. patriotism.

I don't like a lot of the different regions/states for one reason or another and don't really care if they fell off in the ocean tomorrow.

I think regional or even a state patriotism could make sense here but I'm not really convinced of a total national patriotism.

Hey, it's great to see you back. :2wave:

I'd say intelligent dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

And by intelligent dissent, I don't just mean dissent that agrees with me. Dissenters like the Bush = Hitler crowd and Obama is Muslim Agent groups is just a public display of stupidity and adds nothing to the nation. In fact, they only serve to harden partisan lines with their poisonous, idiotic slander. What I mean by intelligent dissent is dissent that raises valid concerns one side may be overlooking and demanding transparency and accountability from our government no matter who's in power. Healthy critical thinking and skepticism that's not fueld by blind partisan hate.

The highest form of patriotism, is quite simply, responsibility. Responsibility not from, but responsibility for.

Surely it can be dissent but it should not, can not, be dissent that enables one to evade responsibility. Responsibility from your community, from your duty, from your family and most importantly: your country is neither wise nor wanted. You can't take a step back, utter a few words about 'Civil Disobedience' and like Pilate: wash your hands of the matter.

Criticism is fine, objections are perfect, but there is a fine line between the sort of dissent this poll implies; dissent at all costs, the deconstructive dissent of social elements who are more interested in some other moral conduct that is inherently at odds with the principle that brought about the concept of civil dissent in the first place. Compared to the objections all true patriots feel when their country appears to be on the wrong track.