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Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americans?

Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americans?

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jamesrage

jamesrage

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Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?

In my opinion Americans who willingly travel to hostile countries should get no assistance. Especially help from former presidents. We do not need to add a former president to their captured Americans collection.
 
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Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?
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If they can be helpful in the situation, I don't see why not.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?

In my opinion Americans who willingly travel to hostile countries should get no assistance. Especially help from former presidents. We do not need to add a former president to their captured Americans collection.
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North Korea wasn't stupid enough to kidnap Bill Clinton.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

pro-bipartisan said:
North Korea wasn't stupid enough to kidnap Bill Clinton.
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What can we do to them if they did kidnap Clinton? The fact we have an Armistice with North Korea basically means we have a stalemate with then and even if we didn't have Afghanistan and Iraq North Korea still wouldn't have to worry about us doing anything. We shouldn't give any hostile country a chance to upgrade their hostages.
 
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Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
What can we do to them if they did kidnap Clinton? The fact we have an Armistice with North Korea basically means we have a stalemate with then and even if we didn't have Afghanistan and Iraq North Korea still wouldn't have to worry about us doing anything.
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We can bomb them; the bottom line is almost every country isn't stupid enough to kidnap a president, north Korea is a prime example.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Former presidents have several distinct advantages in dealing with international situations.

  1. They retain the aura of having been President, so there is great personal gravitas even without official portfolio.
  2. They are unofficial, so everything that is said is deniable.
  3. Often, they have personal knowledge of the parties involved, from their time at center stage.
Should an ex-President be sent in all cases? No, of course not. However, when there is a situation that presents some delicacy (and dealing with a pariah nuclear-armed state is nothing if not delicate), they are perhaps better situated than other diplomats to contend with the situation.

ex-Presidents have been part of America's unofficial diplomatic corps since the founding of the Republic, and will always be thus.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

People should not expect their gov't to rescue them from their own stupidity.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?

In my opinion Americans who willingly travel to hostile countries should get no assistance. Especially help from former presidents. We do not need to add a former president to their captured Americans collection.
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Why not? They send ambassadors all the time and that is what a former president can be. Just because they were once President doesn't mean they should still be kept in a locked box. They have the experiance needed and the knowledge to deal with situations such as the one with the journalists and N.Korea. What danger is there that an ordinary ambassador doesn't face all the time? I doubt that they would try to kidnap a former President just to get codes as those are more than likely changed each and every time that there is a new President elected. State secrets? Possible. But I would imagine that the possiblity that we would go to war for such a kidnapping. And while N.Korea may have a very limited use of nukes they would not beable to hit us here in the US. But we CAN hit them. Allies won't mean crap if you are evaporated.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

bhkad said:
People should not expect their gov't to rescue them from their own stupidity.
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So it was stupid of Clinton to go help get the release of those journalists? Who would you rather have gone to negotiate for their release? Clinton or Obama? Sometimes it takes more than just an ambassador to accomplish things.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Your willing to go to war for one man? North Korea does not have a tiny Army(1.2 million and a quarter of their GNP spent on the military) and have China and Russia as its allies.
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North Korea basically kidnapped those two journalists. It is quite probable they were on the China side of the Yalu river when the North Koreans grabbed them.

If any nation kidnaps one American like that, yeah, that's a cause for war.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?

In my opinion Americans who willingly travel to hostile countries should get no assistance. Especially help from former presidents. We do not need to add a former president to their captured Americans collection.
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The United States has had enemies before, but in the 200+ years that we have been a nation, no country (to my knowledge) has ever held a President of the United States hostage. As crazy as certain world leaders are, they are smart enough to know better than to kidnap such a high-profile figure.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Your willing to go to war for one man?
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If the man is someone as high-profile as Bill Clinton, absolutely.

jamesrage said:
North Korea does not have a tiny Army(1.2 million and a quarter of their GNP spent on the military)
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The size of their military is irrelevant; they are poorly trained and poorly equipped, and most likely have no morale whatsoever. I'd be more concerned about the nuclear weapons.

jamesrage said:
and have China and Russia as its allies.
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Do you really believe that China and Russia would stand by North Korea if they kidnapped Bill Clinton?
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

I have no problem with it. It takes a real backbone to do something like that.

Backbone is something every American president needs.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Kal'Stang said:
So it was stupid of Clinton to go help get the release of those journalists?.
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Yes.

Who would you rather have gone to negotiate for their release?
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No one.

Clinton or Obama?
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Neither. Since those journalist were stupid enough to go to or near North Korea they should expect no help from the US. I do not think we should risk allowing any country to upgrade its hostages.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Kandahar said:
If the man is someone as high-profile as Bill Clinton, absolutely.
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Thousands of our men for one life. That seems to not place any value on the lives of our solders and marines.

The size of their military is irrelevant; they are poorly trained and poorly equipped, and most likely have no morale whatsoever.
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Have you been to North Korea,any news article detailing exactly what their military has and how their military is trained? If there military was irrelevant then we wouldn't be in this 50 year plus armistice/standoff with North Korea. The US is not going to go to war with North Korea.




Do you really believe that China and Russia would stand by North Korea if they kidnapped Bill Clinton?
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Maybe. Do you think China only needs American to buy their goods?
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Neither. Since those journalist were stupid enough to go to or near North Korea they should expect no help from the US. I do not think we should risk allowing any country to upgrade its hostages.
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They're journalists. But more important they are American Citizens. Weather stupid or not the government has an obligation to extricate them...forcibly if necessary. They did the right thing by negotiating first.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Should former presidents travel to unfriendly hostile countries to try to release captured Americans?

.
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Within sensible limits, yes.

I don't think we should be sending Truman or Eisenhower, though.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Thousands of our men for one life. That seems to not place any value on the lives of our solders and marines.
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Ever heard of Saving Private Ryan? Based on a true story.

jamesrage said:
Have you been to North Korea,any news article detailing exactly what their military has and how their military is trained? If there military was irrelevant then we wouldn't be in this 50 year plus armistice/standoff with North Korea. The US is not going to go to war with North Korea.
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Most of N.Korea's arms are out of date. They would stand no chance against air attacks. Only reason that hostilities have not resumed is N.Korea has not attacked us directly. If the US were to do anything without such an overt move then the US would suffer via political channels.

jamesrage said:
Maybe. Do you think China only needs American to buy their goods?
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Doubt very seriously that China would step in as it would be too costly to them via political channels. Especially since N.Korea would be in the wrong...and seriously...would N.Korea really be worth China's time to save? Oh sure China might say something..but do anything? Doubtful.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Kal'Stang said:
Ever heard of Saving Private Ryan? Based on a true story.
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I thought that stupid and a waste of soldiers.

Most of N.Korea's arms are out of date.
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They are not using bows and arrows.


They would stand no chance against air attacks. Only reason that hostilities have not resumed is N.Korea has not attacked us directly.
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Ax murders
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

jamesrage said:
Thousands of our men for one life. That seems to not place any value on the lives of our solders and marines.
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He's Bill Clinton, not some random guy. Furthermore, Kim Jong-il knows he would ultimately lose if he did something that provocative.

jamesrage said:
Have you been to North Korea,any news article detailing exactly what their military has and how their military is trained? If there military was irrelevant then we wouldn't be in this 50 year plus armistice/standoff with North Korea. The US is not going to go to war with North Korea.
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Up until the end of the Cold War, we were at peace with North Korea because of the threat from China. From the end of the Cold War until the early part of this decade, we were at peace with North Korea mainly as a courtesy to China. Since then, we have been at peace with North Korea solely because they have nuclear weapons.

All-out war is unlikely, but there would certainly be a military response if the North Koreans kidnapped someone as high profile as Bill Clinton, as there should be. If they're going to kidnap our negotiators, then it makes negotiating rather difficult.

jamesrage said:
Maybe. Do you think China only needs American to buy their goods?
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Uhh I think the American market is a little more important to them than the North Korean market. Besides, China doesn't want to lose face because of Kim Jong-il. If he did something like kidnapping an American president, China would condemn it in the strongest terms, just like every other nation.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

North Korea will NOT kidnap Clinton, and there's no harm in his trying. He ain't gonna get squat, but there's no harm.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Harshaw said:
North Korea will NOT kidnap Clinton, and there's no harm in his trying. He ain't gonna get squat, but there's no harm.
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Actually he did get the journalists back.
 
Re: Should former presidents travel to enemy countries to try to free captured Americ

Harshaw said:
North Korea will NOT kidnap Clinton, and there's no harm in his trying. He ain't gonna get squat, but there's no harm.
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He already made the trip and was successful...
 
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