• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What do you want in the Health Reform bill

What do you want in the Health Reform Bill


  • Total voters
    10
You must be strongly against ACORN, I would hope. Oh, and btw, this country exists because of one big riot, and slavery has ended because of another "riot". Civil rights were giving to women and African Americans because of protests. To say protesting will get this country nowhere is...well...not exactly taking into account the past.

Oh, come on. The American revolution, an end to slavery, female suffrage...

All of the mentioned 'riots' had merit and virtues upheld. Have you watched the news recently? Anti-reform groups are advocating sending more dissidents merely to be louder than the proponents, and just to kill any sense of progression. These healthcare riots have no value, and no withstanding merit. They exist merely in a partisan fashion to destroy any sense of civility with the manner, and to ignore the facts about healthcare.

Why is it that when conservatives protest, they are labeled as evil angry mobs, yet when anyone else protests they are simply exercising free speech?

And I never labeled these riots evil in any way, just ridiculous. If the protesters were serious, maybe they would come up with some sort of factual details that could be presented instead of screeching hackneyed obscenities at the top their lungs.
 
All of the mentioned 'riots' had merit and virtues upheld. Have you watched the news recently? Anti-reform groups are advocating sending more dissidents merely to be louder than the proponents, and just to kill any sense of progression. These healthcare riots have no value, and no withstanding merit. They exist merely in a partisan fashion to destroy any sense of civility with the manner, and to ignore the facts about healthcare.
The protesters believe that by stopping government run healthcare they are upholding values they see as important to them. They see passing government run healthcare as a step backwards, not progression. You have a double-standard if you say they have no value. You disagree with them, but they definitely have value.

And I never labeled these riots evil in any way, just ridiculous. If the protesters were serious, maybe they would come up with some sort of factual details that could be presented instead of screeching hackneyed obscenities at the top their lungs.
They have. They aren't just shouting obscenities. Here are some examples of very valid points made against healthcare:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGQ0EvzcjA"]YouTube - O'Reilly Calls Democrats Hypocrites Re: Town Hall Protests[/ame]
There are plenty of people with valid concerns. Yes there are people who do nothing but shout insults, but to say that the protests are just fake and meaningless is simply not true.
 
Last edited:
liblady said:
who is "they"? it seems to me at least obama is willing to take this on, depsite the blue dog dems and the republicans. if people were HONEST, most would acknowledge we need reform, as you did. instead, what we have is more fear mongering and outright lies (euthanasia?) being thrown around.

we will never get anywhere unless we actually start the car.

We need reform, but the reform we need starts at a much more fundamental level than what Obama is trying to do. He's just trying to wallpaper over the problems, not solve them.

The problems in the medical field are twofold:

1) First, America is sue-happy. We've raised a generation of lawyers who will sue anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat and they all know that the medical profession is ripe for picking. Most doctors just don't have the time to sit in a courtroom answering ridiculous claims from an idiot lawyer and therefore just let their malpractice insurance take care of it. That's exactly what the lawyers are counting on, they make money without ever having to prove they have a case. That's why you get ambulance-chasing lawyers like James Sokolove on TV advertising for massive class-action suits.

I have a friend who is a doctor and he pays over $100k a year in malpractice insurance premiums! And he's never had a problem in his life. Yet. That cost has to be passed on to the consumers and multiply that by the number of doctors and nurses out there and you've got billions of dollars a year in extraneous costs that have nothing whatsoever to do with healing anyone.

2) Secondly, the insurance companies and the government don't pay their bills. Billing Medical and Medicaid is a nightmare, they just don't send you back what they've been billed for. Most insurance and government entities pay about 10% of what they're billed. If a procedure costs $200, the hospital will get sent $20. Hospitals realized that in order to actually recoup their losses, they have to raise their rates. That means that to get their $200 reimbursed, they have to charge $2000 for the procedure. That's great, they get their $200 back, but if an uninsured person walks in the door, the law demands that they charge them $2000 too.

Why you think that Obama's big health reform plan is going to change the situation any is beyond me. They're still going to pay a pittance for services that cost more than the hospitals are getting and hospitals are going to go out of business, just like they are today.

If he wants to make a difference, he needs to address the core issues of why medical costs are so high to begin with, but he doesn't have the guts to touch it, any more than the Republicans would. It's a political hot potato, the insurance industry has tons of money to spend on buying votes and bribing politicians, nobody is going to vote against their own political sugar daddies.
 
First, Where is the poll?

Second, of the four choices listed, the answer is very easy -- Number 4 -- NO government involvement.


i'm optimistic.

I'm not. This boondoggle should scare the hell out of you.


Government health care is more efficient (Lie), Government health care is cheaper (half truth), Health care is a right (half truth), there are others but that is a start.

You are partly right:

"Government health care is more efficient (Lie)." Correct.

"Health care is a right (half truth)." Wrong. The correct answer is "Lie."

"Government health care is cheaper (Half truth). Wrong. The correct answer is "Lie."


i believe access to decent healthcare is a right, whatever your economic status....

Forcing others to provide something is NOT a right. A right is being allowed to do things for yourself without government meddling.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Poll added
 
Let me point out three very important issues:

1.) The cost to doing nothing is going to be catastrophic soon, and increasingly difficult to afford for most even sooner. There just is simply no more time left to stick our heads in the sand. The system ran amok, and everyone has to accept at some point there will be changes that will not please all. The alternative is that we will have a failed system, not just a couple of corporations.

2.) So with that said, I understand there is components in the bill that not everyone likes. First off, not too sound too rude, but elections matter. The people spoke in 2006 and 2008. Healthcare reform, and the options proposed are not really a big surprise unless one had their head in the sand the past few years. So while I understand people can be opposed, but the level we have seen of opposition as of late is getting out of hand everywhere with everyone on every side.

People should first concentrate on what they find acceptable, and agree to it. Then find the components in the bills that they could seek further compromise, then compromise. Lastly take the components that bring the most opposition, and offer an alternative. That is the American way, or the way it is suppose to be. Although I am not too naive to think this can happen, which is why in some regards I wonder if a multi-party parliamentary system would not fit us better in this day and age.

3.) I think people need to be better informed, and actively following unbiased source of information along with their partisan preferences. The amount of distortions, lies, falsehoods, inaccuracies, ignorance, confusion, etc.. is higher with this issue than any other I have ever seen in my life, and I am sadly no longer young. A good example is while the Huffington Post may be entertaining, they are however filtering to some degree the information provided. I would be equally as ignorant by simply reading only that source. BBC, Politico, NYT, WP, Politifact, Factcheck, Time, Newsweek, and others have given fairly good accurate reporting on what the issues are, what is involved, and what is being proposed. Simply following Limbaugh or Daily Kos only leaves you as ignorant as when you entered the room. Partisan news is designed by it's nature to inform you only what is good for them, not what it is accurate or complete.

The state of our current healthcare system, and the direction it is going to be in just a couple of years is probably the most important issue I have seen in my lifetime. I don' need to post my age, but allow me to say I have seen quite a lot through the years, and nothing compares to this issue. It really does make issues like Cap and Trade make me want to laugh, as I can guarantee you in a few years nobody will even remember Cap and Trade (kind of like they have already forgotten that we already have had Cap and Trade before...and it worked better than anyone thought it would... supporters included). But HCR is much different because the problems are now just too great, we sat for too long with politicians not willing to do what is required of them. Politicians who cared more about re-election that taking on tough issues...imagine that.
 
Let me point out three very important issues:

1.) The cost to doing nothing is going to be catastrophic soon, and increasingly difficult to afford for most even sooner. There just is simply no more time left to stick our heads in the sand. The system ran amok, and everyone has to accept at some point there will be changes that will not please all. The alternative is that we will have a failed system, not just a couple of corporations..

I disagree.Who says "something" has to be socialized medicine. Why not find other ways to actually make medical care cheaper?



2.) So with that said, I understand there is components in the bill that not everyone likes. First off, not too sound too rude, but elections matter. The people spoke in 2006 and 2008. Healthcare reform, and the options proposed are not really a big surprise unless one had their head in the sand the past few years. So while I understand people can be opposed, but the level we have seen of opposition as of late is getting out of hand everywhere with everyone on every side.

People should first concentrate on what they find acceptable, and agree to it. Then find the components in the bills that they could seek further compromise, then compromise. Lastly take the components that bring the most opposition, and offer an alternative. That is the American way, or the way it is suppose to be. Although I am not too naive to think this can happen, which is why in some regards I wonder if a multi-party parliamentary system would not fit us better in this day and age.


People opposed to it feel it is not the governments business to handle medicine.

3.) I think people need to be better informed, and actively following unbiased source of information along with their partisan preferences.

There is no such thing as a totally unbiased source. This idea of a source being unbiased is laughable.
 
If they just wanted to create a government program that took care of people unable to get insurance, for whatever reason, that wouldn't be so bad. And they left the private sector alone. There are plenty of people happy with their healthcare as is, and there is no reason to change that.

But the atrocities that are being bandied about in the halls of Congress are nothing short of the government doing what it can to destroy the private sector and force everybody onto a public plan at some point.
 
As the bill currently makes its way trough committee, there are 4 scenarios that could happen to this bill. Starting from the left extreme, to the status quo.

1. Universal Health Care

This is Obama's home run folks. Also, the worst of the worst from a conservative standpoint. The government hires, pays, and fires doctors and all medical professionals, to the exclusion of any private investment or competing businesses.

2. National Health Insurance

Probably the very most the democrat leadership can accomplish realistically. With or without the republicans. Even then it would be watered-down with politi-speak that would favor health insurance companies(or, at least just the big-corrupt companies).

3. General Health Reform

No more than your general bill that passes through congress to do...something...In the end, nothing to worry about, just your average waste of money.

4. Dies

Waterloo. No further explanation needed.

Personally, I want the Govt. to STAY OUT of Healthcare, the Medical Field in general. Most of all, my Wallet. :lol:
 
Back
Top Bottom