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Role of government in Education

role of state in education


  • Total voters
    21
From the original poll options:

option 2:

an average adult is either not willing or not able to provide his children with the best possible education. the government should use its massive resources to ASSIST in educating children. this assistance should come in the form of vouchers and the government should be prohibited from running any schools of its own. allowing the government to run its own schools is allowing the state to control the minds of young people and since everybody was once young to effectively control the minds of all of its subjects.

The problem with this poll is that "the government" is not a single entity. While a lot of people would agree that the Federal Government should not be in the business of running their kids elementary school, that does not mean that they do not believe it is a legitimate function of state and local governments.

States and communities compete against each other thus states and communities have a vested interest in having an educated workforce and top performing schools. "Mind control" has nothing at all to with that.
 
It's a tough call, and on par (i think) with health care. No, the gov't is under no obligation to provide for anybody's education, but it benefits the entire society to provide education. It's a similar issue to roads, perhaps. The government is under no obligation to build you the roads you drive on every day, but if they didn't do it, and maintain the system, who would? Maybe private roadways would work, but we don't really have enough info to know for sure. Certainly there'd be pockets of roadways that were total ****.

Anyway, perhaps education is one of those services that are not best handled by the gov't, but there's no better entity to do the job adequately. I can't think of a better solution.

As a caveat to all that, i am in favor of testing certain societal ideals. Perhaps a few counties in a state would volunteer trying out complete privatization of education? It'd have to be a fairly large and representative sample size, and it'd not be perfect, but perhaps it would be a first step? Certainly we'd learn something or other.

In closing, education is a huge issue and it always will be a huge issue. That's part of its nature and existence. Since this is the case, we ought to be studying it carefully and experimenting with various methods and trials. Of course much depends on the various educators themselves and people can't be replicated like methods can. That's one insurmountable "x-factor" that's problematic. A good teacher using a bad method in a bad system can make **** happen. A bad teacher using an excellent method in the best possible system can still **** kids up into the next decade or longer.
 
I have seen people claim this on various occasions.

As I never went to public school, I was wondering...what do they actually teach, and how is it wrong?

They teach drivel called "social studies". Very little real history shows up in the typical high school curriculum.
 
Do you realize that you are part of a larger society? Do you realize that it is in you best interest that those around you - doctor, lawyer, plumber, mechanic, store managers, truck drivers, etc. - are well educated? It is to your and everyone's benefit that we are an educated society.

Yes, I'm fully aware that most of those around me are blood sucking leech-like socialist parasites.

I'm in no ways obligated to willingly provide food for them, I require them to use the threat of violence before surrendering the least I can get away with.

If they want to be "educated", they can pay their own tuitions.
 
i'd love those around me to be knowledgeable and intelligent.

but not "well educated"

the word "education" to me is a curse word.

you can learn, study or research. this implies HUNGER FOR KNOWLEDGE. but education means something else - it means FORCING YOUR VIEW ON SOMEBODY ELSE.

knowledge should come from curiosity and experience. not from indoctrination.

Education does not mean that. It means a basic foundation of knowledge on which to build. Of course children should be taught to think for themselves and be encouraged to continue to seek knowledge. Being well educated doesn't mean you are done and don't need to learn more.
 
Education does not mean that. It means a basic foundation of knowledge on which to build. Of course children should be taught to think for themselves and be encouraged to continue to seek knowledge. Being well educated doesn't mean you are done and don't need to learn more.

here is how education should be:

teach kids English, Spanish, French, German, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese and Arabic. teach kids Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Computer Science. leave History and Philosophy for them to explore on their own. and of course all classes MUST BE OPTIONAL. if a student doesn't want to study anything - that is his right.

and here is how it is right now:

so kids you live in America - are you proud ? no ? well you should be ! why ? because it is the greatest country on earth ! why ? because we are the beacon of freedom and all that crap home of the brave. you are all free ! have you noticed ? no ? so what that you can't have sex ? so what that you can't smoke weed ? you are free ! why ? because i said so ! try and say you're not free on a test and see what grade you will get. math and science ? what about it ? you don't need it kids. why ? because we have a service economy - you will flip burgers for the rest of your life ( until the bubble pops that is then you just gonna stave to death )

now for reasons that should be obvious the government will NEVER provide kids with the right kind of education. because the only thing ( aside from stealing money ) that a government ( any government, not just ours ) is concerned with is staying in power. government staying in power is synonymous with people staying stupid. that simple fact may be difficult for a liberal to figure out but all leaders, even the stupidest ones, understand it perfectly.

another fact that liberals find difficult to understand is that the best way to ensure universal stupidity is education. as Stephen Hawking said "the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" which just happens to be what education is all about - an ILLUSION of knowledge.

Daniel Tammet also says that information is what you need to become stupid.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIDMCC2SJek"]YouTube - Embracing The Wide Sky - Daniel Tammet[/ame]
 
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1 Minor modification to option 2: The Government only assists students who are performing well. With that, I think it couldn't go wrong. And the State Governments would run the schools, not the Federal Government, right?
 
now for reasons that should be obvious the government will NEVER provide kids with the right kind of education. because the only thing ( aside from stealing money ) that a government ( any government, not just ours ) is concerned with is staying in power. government staying in power is synonymous with people staying stupid. that simple fact may be difficult for a liberal to figure out but all leaders, even the stupidest ones, understand it perfectly.

another fact that liberals find difficult to understand is that the best way to ensure universal stupidity is education. as Stephen Hawking said "the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" which just happens to be what education is all about - an ILLUSION of knowledge.

Could you stop being hyper-partisan? It makes you look very bad....
 
Could you stop being hyper-partisan? It makes you look very bad....

He's not being hyper-partisan so much as he's being hyper-paranoid.
 
He's not being hyper-partisan so much as he's being hyper-paranoid.

I don't know about that. If you review some of the materials taught to you and your fellow students, you'd find somethings omitted or changed for purposes unknown.

I'm not convinced that the schools are not used to further the major parties political power.
 
I don't know about that. If you review some of the materials taught to you and your fellow students, you'd find somethings omitted or changed for purposes unknown.

If so, it is the teacher's fault entirely. Why is everyone assuming teachers don't have opinions? They do, and they try to push their opinions onto their students. Not the government, the teachers.

I'm not convinced that the schools are not used to further the major parties political power.

I am, and I find the idea as ridiculous as the government secretly blowing up two of its own buildings and blaming terrorists.
 
If so, it is the teacher's fault entirely. Why is everyone assuming teachers don't have opinions? They do, and they try to push their opinions onto their students. Not the government, the teachers.

Sure that is true but I believe that at the very least the curriculum has been watered down very heavily.

You do know that our school system was originally developed after the Prussian school systems and that it is not intended to educate but instead used to train workers in basic skills and obedience.

"Seeking to replace the controlling functions of the local aristocracy, the Prussian court attempted to instill social obedience in the citizens through indoctrination. Every individual had to become convinced, in the core of his being, that the King was just, his decisions always right, and the need for obedience paramount."

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system]Prussian education system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

I am, and I find the idea as ridiculous as the government secretly blowing up two of its own buildings and blaming terrorists.

I didn't say nor do I believe that the government has done such a thing.
 
Education became a failure when it became a tool for social engineering!
It became about quotas regarding skin color and kids were ripped out of their
neighborhoods and hauled to gawd only knows what part of town and were
not taught the basic three blocks in a very important foundation. Kids had
no history with their peers, were in strange surroundings and being easily
an hour and a half from home, parental cooperation fell away...because many
of them were working two jobs to feed the monster of the fed government.

The Fed Gov should not have any say in local schools. NONE! Taxes collected
in counties or provinces or whatever would apply, should stay exactly there.
Cut out the waste and programs that allow parents to be irresponsible and
the others can be responsible unhindered by social engineers.

I drove a school bus for 3 years and there is a world out there you cannot
imagine and it is a world that is not turning out successful young people.
Success is not rewarded because it is all about "feeling good about yourself",
not about learning and showing that you have done your work.

OK, my morning rant....Im wound up now.:roll:
 
If you're willing to check the history, you'll see that the Fed Govt got involved because of national defense reasons.

Please feel free to make the case that technology and science aren't essential to our national defense these days.
 
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke]David Icke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]





In 1999, Icke wrote and published The Biggest Secret: The Book that Will Change the World, in which he identified the extraterrestrial prison warders as reptilians from the constellation Draco.[25]They walk erect and appear to be human, living not only on the planets they come from, but also in caverns and tunnels under the earth. They have cross-bred with humans, which has created "hybrids" who are "possessed" by the full-blooded reptilians.[26] The reptiles' hybrid reptilian-human DNA allows them to change from reptilian to human form if they consume human blood. Icke has drawn parallels with the 1980s science-fiction series V, in which the earth is taken over by reptiloid aliens disguised as humans.
According to Icke, the reptilian group includes many prominent people and practically every world leader from Britain's late Queen Mother to George H.W. Bush, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton"]Hillary Clinton[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson"]Harold Wilson[/ame], and Tony Blair. These people are either themselves reptilian, or work for the reptiles as what Icke calls slave-like victims of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_personality_disorder"]multiple personality disorder[/ame]: "The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschilds"]Rothschilds[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefellers"]Rockefellers[/ame], the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_royal_family"]British royal family[/ame], and the ruling political and economic families of the U.S. and the rest of the world come from these SAME bloodlines. It is not because of snobbery, it is to hold as best they can a genetic structure — the reptilian-mammalian [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA"]DNA[/ame] combination which allows them to '[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapeshifting"]shape-shift[/ame]'."[4]
In Tales From The Time Loop and other works, Icke states that most organised religions, especially [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism"]Judaism[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity"]Christianity[/ame], and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam"]Islam[/ame], are Illuminati creations designed to divide and conquer the human race through endless conflicts. In a similar vein, Icke believes racial and ethnic divisions are an illusion promoted by the reptilians, and that racism fuels the Illuminati agenda.

:shock::doh:lol:
 
No they are not in charge of our fire stations, but they do spend monies to fund and enable them., there are numerous grants, loans, reimbursements ect. provided by the federal government that enable our fire departments.

Same thing with our schools, the federal government is not in charge (in theory); however they do spend monies to fund them.

I do not think politicians are capable of deciding what is in the best interest for educational operations, methodologies or curriculum, and need to stay out of trying to legislate it. Which is why I stated in my first post here "less meddling, more enabling"

Edit: and I am not quite sure which statement you are referring to with the bending it to any meaning bit, unless you are denying that you are a resource as well
Very little money, most fire dept are locally funded.
 
education is a servie, not a "good".

Also, and more importantly for the United States, the federal government isn't authorized by the Constitution to spend money on education.

When you say this, you mean "not required to pay for education" or "must not pay for education"?
 
Could you stop being hyper-partisan? It makes you look very bad....

i am actually not partisan at all.

conservatives are brainwashed on issues such as religion and national security. liberals brainwashed on issues such as racism and education.

and where republicans and democrats differ in rhetoric they are still exactly the same in their actions. they both vote to fund pointless wars and they both keep growing the government and government spending.

as a Libertarian i am equally dissatisfied with both.

i just know that conservatives are mostly old people so i don't waste my time on them. i pick on liberals because they're mostly young and as such i can still influence them.

ideally i want to convert people of both orientations into Libertarianism but i know conservatives just going to have to go into the grave the way they already are.

the government focuses its mind control and propaganda on the youngest people and so do i. this is the most efficient approach. why else would i bother with high school kids like Dav ?
 
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He's not being hyper-partisan so much as he's being hyper-paranoid.

paranoia is nearly synonymous with intelligence. mine is perfectly in-line with my IQ.

trust me i can always take xanax or drink vodka to become just like normal people - i simply don't like being stupid.

If so, it is the teacher's fault entirely. Why is everyone assuming teachers don't have opinions? They do, and they try to push their opinions onto their students. Not the government, the teachers.

and where do you think teachers get their opinions from ? do they beam information from outer space ?
 
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"Seeking to replace the controlling functions of the local aristocracy, the Prussian court attempted to instill social obedience in the citizens through indoctrination. Every individual had to become convinced, in the core of his being, that the King was just, his decisions always right, and the need for obedience paramount."

the key thing to realize here is that nothing ever changes.

its a Liberal fairy tale that there was "progress" - a lie repeated to sugar coat status quo and make you accept it.

if there was any progress made it was sideways rather than forward.
 
I am, and I find the idea as ridiculous as the government secretly blowing up two of its own buildings and blaming terrorists.

how ironic that you would mention that! for it is precisely THE PURPOSE of "education" to ensure that the victim ( student ) will find such an idea ridiculous.

if you knew anything about history you would know governments pull inside jobs like that ALL THE TIME. but because you are getting the GOVERNMENT'S VERSION of history ( instead of what actually happened ) you find it ridiculous.

i mean this should not be so difficult to understand. the same people who killed kennedy are the same people who wrote your high school textbooks are the same people who pulled 9-11. that's the beauty of it - you are reading their own account of events that they themselves perpetrated.

it's like letting a serial rapist be his own judge and jury YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR ...

that said, let's not turn this into a 9-11 thread.
 
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If you're willing to check the history, you'll see that the Fed Govt got involved because of national defense reasons.

Please feel free to make the case that technology and science aren't essential to our national defense these days.

i have nothing against the government teaching kids technology.

just as long as it stays out of topics like religion, philosophy and history.

but that can never be. the government can't avoid this temptation. therefore it should not teach ( directly ) at all.

Icke!?!

ICKE!?!

Really? The guy who tells us that most of our elected leaders are non-human "reptilians'?
Seriously?

attack the message not the messenger.

it is the logic of what is being said that is to be questioned not the authority of the person saying it.

authority means nothing unless you wish to be slave.
 
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David Icke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





In 1999, Icke wrote and published The Biggest Secret: The Book that Will Change the World, in which he identified the extraterrestrial prison warders as reptilians from the constellation Draco.[25]They walk erect and appear to be human, living not only on the planets they come from, but also in caverns and tunnels under the earth. They have cross-bred with humans, which has created "hybrids" who are "possessed" by the full-blooded reptilians.[26] The reptiles' hybrid reptilian-human DNA allows them to change from reptilian to human form if they consume human blood. Icke has drawn parallels with the 1980s science-fiction series V, in which the earth is taken over by reptiloid aliens disguised as humans.
According to Icke, the reptilian group includes many prominent people and practically every world leader from Britain's late Queen Mother to George H.W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, Harold Wilson, and Tony Blair. These people are either themselves reptilian, or work for the reptiles as what Icke calls slave-like victims of multiple personality disorder: "The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the British royal family, and the ruling political and economic families of the U.S. and the rest of the world come from these SAME bloodlines. It is not because of snobbery, it is to hold as best they can a genetic structure — the reptilian-mammalian DNA combination which allows them to 'shape-shift'."[4]
In Tales From The Time Loop and other works, Icke states that most organised religions, especially Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, are Illuminati creations designed to divide and conquer the human race through endless conflicts. In a similar vein, Icke believes racial and ethnic divisions are an illusion promoted by the reptilians, and that racism fuels the Illuminati agenda.

:shock::doh:lol:

am I David Icke ? are you arguing me or him ?

you probably picked up some ideas from your parents. should i run around after your parents and post on the internet every single ridiculous thing that they do ?

grow up !
 
attack the message not the messenger.
it is the logic of what is being said that is to be questioned not the authority of the person saying it.
authority means nothing unless you wish to be slave.
am I David Icke ? are you arguing me or him ?
you probably picked up some ideas from your parents. should i run around after your parents and post on the internet every single ridiculous thing that they do ?
grow up !
I see this is a somewhat sensitive subject for you.

I have no idea if you are Mr. Icke or not.

If I posted a clips of me Mum and Pop saying w/e ideas I wanted to present, then they would be fair game as well.
However, I don't.
 
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