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What Has Influenced Your Views?

What Has Influenced Your Thinking?


  • Total voters
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Isn't it ironic that they are the ones yelling "Partisan! Partisan!"? Well, they have one finger pointed at us, and 3 fingers plus an opposable thumb pointing right back at them. ;)

Is your thumb on backwards or is it the world's most flexible thumb? :confused:

I just pointed my finger and no matter what I do I can't get the thumb to point back at me. It either points down or up. :confused::confused:
 
Gowing up with a corrupt family and friends of the family........
 
Is your thumb on backwards or is it the world's most flexible thumb? :confused:

I just pointed my finger and no matter what I do I can't get the thumb to point back at me. It either points down or up. :confused::confused:

If your thumb is inside your fingers when you point. Like, put your thumb across your hand, then put your fingers around it, then point with your index finger. It either points back at you or the person stading next to you depending on your hand.
 
If your thumb is inside your fingers when you point. Like, put your thumb across your hand, then put your fingers around it, then point with your index finger. It either points back at you or the person stading next to you depending on your hand.

My thumb points at the person next to me!:lol:
 
is your thumb on backwards or is it the world's most flexible thumb? :confused:

I just pointed my finger and no matter what i do i can't get the thumb to point back at me. It either points down or up. :confused::confused:
Believe in yourself! Believe in the thumb!
 
Perhaps I should explain further. I'm not really talking about my personal views as much as I'm talking about political views. I develop each differently.

My personal views are undoubtedly going to be influenced to some degree by my emotions. My political views are not really influenced by my emotions.

To give an example of what I mean:

I am an atheist. I would have an extremely strong emotional response if I were to learn that my child's school district was considering setting aside a certain time of the school day for prayer, I would do whatever I could to oppose this and prevent it from occurring.

At the same time, if I lost that fight, and the majority of people in that district decided that there should be this set aside time, I would not seek to remove the rule in an action that ran counter to the majority opinion on it. While I would have sought to change the views of the majority, I would not seek to force my minority views upon the majority. Even though my own feelings on the matter are totally opposite of theirs. I would instead find a way to place my child in a school district that did not share these rules.

I think that the issue here is that my political views and my personal views are not always in line with each other.

Actually your views seem very consistant. Often a person's religious or non-religious views conflict with the state. And even the Bible tells Christians to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

You are simply taking the position that while you may very well work to change a policy, you will deal with existing policy in the meantime.
 
I think the best way to describe it is "All of the above mitigated by rational thought".

To imply that any of those things have not had some degree of influence is absurd. Btu I like to think that I have rationally thought out my positions so that they are not dictated by those events alone.

Christ, your a mod now??

I was just wondering why everyone thinks specifically what they think. Have recent events changed your thinking? Have your parents influenced you? Did a defining childhood event change you? Or have you just thought about your views as you've gone along?

What do you think the way you do?

Selecting rational thought is just stupid. Our beliefs is what we THINK is rational. We all intepret being rational differently, and by nature our beliefs are what we think is right and rational, so rational thinking is our default view anyway. You'd need opinions and knowledge from all oppositions before you can honestly claim you are being "rational" when drafting your own conclusion, and to do so you need friends and just general people to get other views from. It only takes one person to shift the way you think. So im going to go for Friends, as personally, in my life, thats whats changed my views the most out of anything.
 
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Actually your views seem very consistant. Often a person's religious or non-religious views conflict with the state. And even the Bible tells Christians to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

You are simply taking the position that while you may very well work to change a policy, you will deal with existing policy in the meantime.

It's not quite that simple.

If the policy were in Kentucky, I wouldn't work to change it because I'm not in Kentucky.

If the policy were to come to exist here in Illinois, I wouldn't try to change it. I would have tried to prevent it from existing by changing the minds of those who support it, but if the majority speaks and it is against my wishes, I would not place my wishes above theirs.

Conversely, if a policy runs in keeping with my opinion, but it runs contrary to the majority opinion.

It's far more complicated than "when in Rome".

And all of that is predicated on it being the local majority, not a national majority. I oppose pretty much all legislation of this sort on the national level so that local regions can dictate for themselves what they prefer. This keeps the largest proportion of the population happy at any given time.
 
What are you talking about? He stated his opinion that the way he was taught about religion directed him towards liberalism.

He stated that conservatism goes towards greed, which is true. Free Market, which is one of the basis of conservatism, gives itself up to enormous corporations which hold monopolies on everything imaginable.

Same goes for twisted and corrupt. No regulation, ie free market, means corruption, hence stopping regulation from being put in place.

Don't simply ignore something because you don't like it, or disagree with it. Do that too much, and you will look very stupid. ;)



Son, there's a lot of assumptions in there. Whether free-market capitalism automatically leads to corporatism is a subject of debate. I tend to think that State interference in the free market, in favor of large corporations (like we've just seen with the stimulus) is what causes corporatism and monopoly, not simply capitalism itself.

In reality you almost never find a "pure" example of any political or economic ideology. An UTTERLY unregulated free market will probably never exist, and even I agree on certain bare minimums of regulation...say about 1/100'th what we've got. In a free market, consumer choice and competition will often bring down corrupt corps alone, as long as we don't permit monopoly.

I'm ignoring him not because I don't wish to consider what he is saying, but because I considered it 16 times in the past 30 years...it was BS the first time I heard it, and it is still BS. I'm old enough that I no longer suffer fools gladly.



Joe1991 said:
99.9% of the worlds scientists using the finest technology say there is man-made climate change and we'd better change our ways.

That is a lie. A bald-faced lie. For one thing, most meterologists are dubious at best about man-made global warming. Do they not count as scientists? This 99.9 percent is an outragous falsehood. Even if it were so, and it isn't, there was a time when 99.9% of scientists believed in Ether and a preferred absolute reference frame...Einstein and Michealson/Morely blew that out of the water.


Not only is he a troll, he's a lying troll.




G.
 
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That is a lie. A bald-faced lie. For one thing, most meterologists are dubious at best about man-made global warming. Do they not count as scientists? This 99.9 percent is an outragous falsehood. Even if it were so, and it isn't, there was a time when 99.9% of scientists believed in Ether and a preferred absolute reference frame...Einstein and Michealson/Morely blew that out of the water.

Not only is he a troll, he's a lying troll.

I'll tell you what, if you can show where "most meterologists are dubious at best about man-made global warming", I'll accept the "lying troll" label and ban myself for a month.

Otherwise take the insults to the dungeon, mkay?
 
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_global_warming_consensus]List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Less Than Half of Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory | NewsBusters.org
Less Than Half of Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory
By Noel Sheppard (Bio | Archive)
August 29, 2007 - 14:01 ET


Consensus? What consensus?

A new survey about to be published by the journal Energy and Environment finds that less than 50 percent of the scientific papers written about climate change since 2004 have endorsed the view that man's activities are causing global warming.

Think Katie, Charlie, and Brian will be discussing this tonight?

As reported by DailyTech Wednesday (emphasis added throughout):


Medical researcher Dr. Klaus-Martin Schulte recently updated this research. Using the same database and search terms as [history professor Naomi] Oreskes, he examined all papers published from 2004 to February 2007. The results have been submitted to the journal Energy and Environment, of which DailyTech has obtained a pre-publication copy. The figures are surprising.

Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no "consensus."

Think someone will be interviewing Al Gore in the next couple of days to get his view on this? Or James Hansen? Or any of the global warming alarmists?

But I digress:


The figures are even more shocking when one remembers the watered-down definition of consensus here. Not only does it not require supporting that man is the "primary" cause of warming, but it doesn't require any belief or support for "catastrophic" global warming. In fact of all papers published in this period (2004 to February 2007), only a single one makes any reference to climate change leading to catastrophic results.
[...]

Schulte's survey contradicts the United Nation IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report (2007), which gave a figure of "90% likely" man was having an impact on world temperatures. But does the IPCC represent a consensus view of world scientists? Despite media claims of "thousands of scientists" involved in the report, the actual text is written by a much smaller number of "lead authors."

A climate science organization that disagrees with much of what passes for popular GW theory:

Welcome to the International Climate Science Coalition Web Site


Nowhere close to a 99.9% consensus.

G
 

Okay, so you lost the bet, since you best argument (the "published papers" newsbusters story) wasn't even close:

Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright...

Now I've been nice guy and not called you names or even reported your slander towards me, hardly something a "troll" would do.
I will ask that you refrain from starting something that will only finish badly for you, deal?
 
Okay, so you lost the bet, since you best argument (the "published papers" newsbusters story) wasn't even close:



Now I've been nice guy and not called you names or even reported your slander towards me, hardly something a "troll" would do.
I will ask that you refrain from starting something that will only finish badly for you, deal?


You obviously failed to note this part:


Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%.

Far from the 99.9% you claim.

It isn't slander if it is true.


Okay, I don't wish to give offense...how about "annoying person who disingenuously misappropriates the facts frequently."
 
You obviously failed to note this part:
Far from the 99.9% you claim.

It isn't slander if it is true.

Well somewhere between my "99%" and your "majority of meteorologists" is the truth, so we'll agree to disagee.

I don't wish to give offense...how about "annoying person who disingenuously misappropriates the facts frequently."

That's fine, I've been called much worse from people I like much more. :2razz:
 
Well somewhere between my "99%" and your "majority of meteorologists" is the truth, so we'll agree to disagee.


Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no "consensus."

48%+6%=54%, enough to make a majority. Unless, you're only going to count studies specifically by meteorologists, I think this shows that the majority of published scientists have been dubious at best.
 
48%+6%=54%, enough to make a majority. Unless, you're only going to count studies specifically by meteorologists, I think this shows that the majority of published scientists have been dubious at best.

Now, now. Unless you examine that 48% closely enough, you can't be sure whether they are positioned for it or against it but are waiting for more information. No way to really know that unless you look at that 48% of 528 papers.
 
Unless you're qualified in the sciences needed to judge 'global warming', nobody here has the expertise to tell who is lying or who is telling the truth, no matter how many 'link-o-ramas' are provided for either 'side' that 'prove' your opinions on the issue, nor does it matter how many pages of playing 'I Touched You Last!!!!" until one side drops from boredom or exhaustion is campaigned through. Just accept there are differing opinions on the matter. Is that so hard? ...

Back to the OP, many of the choices are inter-related; parenting and 'childhood experiences' and education are certainly inter-related, as is 'current events', so I checked multiple entries. All of them matter.
 
For me several things stand out.

I was very fortunate, though I didn't think so at the time, to have limited contact with other kids my age growing up. This wasn't a planned thing, just a matter of the neighborhood we lived in. The result of this was that I realized something that I don't think a lot of my peers did. That is, the older people weren't stupid -- stupidity was a luxury most of them couldn't have afforded in the 1930's and 40's, and youth, being perforce inexperienced, was more likely to be in error.

That led to the conclusion that Conservatism, being based on ideas that had been tried over many generations would usually present more functional solutions than Liberalism, with its embrace of "new," or more often, new-seeming ideas.

I also take pains to consider the opposite poles as it were, of Human Nature. So when a political or social approach is suggested to me, I carefully consider not only how it might operate for the ennobled members of Society, but what opportunities it presents for the debased.

Experience has taught me that nobility in each individual fails at one time or another, but debasement is tireless.

Another thing that has shaped my views is a revulsion with moral stands that cost the one who espouses them little or nothing, but create detrimental results that will fall on others.

An example of this is the oh-so-grand position taken by certain people that persons known to be withholding information about planned terrorist attacks should not be forcefully interrogated. Such people hold a position that they think virtuous, in the near certainty that if someone dies in the planned attack, it won't be themselves.


There is more of course, much more really. But I think I've given the flavor of the process that led to my political beliefs.
The Founders knew all this too, and that's why they believed in the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law"]Natural Law[/ame] (i.e, John Locke).
 
Unless you're qualified in the sciences needed to judge 'global warming', nobody here has the expertise to tell who is lying or who is telling the truth, no matter how many 'link-o-ramas' are provided for either 'side' that 'prove' your opinions on the issue, nor does it matter how many pages of playing 'I Touched You Last!!!!" until one side drops from boredom or exhaustion is campaigned through. Just accept there are differing opinions on the matter. Is that so hard? ...

Sorry, but the facts are in, despite a handful of TV weathermen.

I still find it shocking that so many want to deny reality.

If ten doctors examined your child and nine said he/she needed a heart transplant, I seriously doubt you would go on without a care because there wasn't a 100% consensus.

This tiny blue ball is it folks, there's no place to go if you're wrong.
If we don't start making big changes now, we've sealed our childrens fate.
 
Sorry, but the facts are in, despite a handful of TV weathermen.

I still find it shocking that so many want to deny reality.

If ten doctors examined your child and nine said he/she needed a heart transplant, I seriously doubt you would go on without a care because there wasn't a 100% consensus.

This tiny blue ball is it folks, there's no place to go if you're wrong.
If we don't start making big changes now, we've sealed our childrens fate.

1 oz. of prevention is worth 2 lbs. of cure. I'm going to have to live in the world of tomorrow, and I'd rather not take the chance that it ends before I end.....or my children for that matter.
 
Sorry, but the facts are in, despite a handful of TV weathermen.

That may well be; as it is here and most message boards, it's just another ideological spit ball contest on whose 'facts' are 'facts', and has fluck all to with 'reality'. There is no real 'proof' of anything on the internet, despite all the wishful thinking and magical incantations surrounding the thing. People can't even prove they can balance a checkbook here, much less what huge piles of scientific data say or don't say.

I still find it shocking that so many want to deny reality.

Well, I certainly agree with this ...
 
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Looks like people are more interested in taking each other to task in this thread (started awfully early on, too) than actually addressing the topic, and that's too bad. I like the concept of this thread a lot. I'm fascinated by what makes people tick.

In a thread like this, people are going to say things you* dislike because they've been asked to share and very few people think exactly alike. The point is to find out why it is they think the way they do, not to pick at specific claims they make. This isn't about whether their claims are true or false, but about the intensely personal how and why behind their comments. I think.

Seems to me that common courtesy dictates that you let them have their say without picking a fight. We have other threads for that.


* the empirical you
 
Looks like people are more interested in taking each other to task in this thread (started awfully early on, too) than actually addressing the topic, and that's too bad. I like the concept of this thread a lot. I'm fascinated by what makes people tick.

In a thread like this, people are going to say things you* dislike because they've been asked to share and very few people think exactly alike. The point is to find out why it is they think the way they do, not to pick at specific claims they make. This isn't about whether their claims are true or false, but about the intensely personal how and why behind their comments. I think.

Seems to me that common courtesy dictates that you let them have their say without picking a fight. We have other threads for that.


* the empirical you


Well said. I wanted to know what affected you guys, and everyone starts dishing out the attacks....
 
Well said. I wanted to know what affected you guys, and everyone starts dishing out the attacks....



When someone uses an example that is false on the face of it, they shouldn't be called on that? When someone posts utter nonsense as fact, they shouldn't be taken to task for it? When someone engages in uber-partisan trolling, ditto?
 
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