A question for people who don't smoke

I used to smoke pot a lot and now I rarely do... maybe once or twice a year, if that. I even grew it once for personal use.

Few people are aware that there are different kinds of cannabis sub-species which determine what kind of high you have. Most people just think pot is pot, especially in North America where there is little differentiation between varieties, fewer connoisseurs, and an undeveloped sub-culture surrounding this widely misunderstood plant.

Cannabis indica produces a drunken sort of intoxication where you are slow, stupified, and you just sort of sit there and stare at a wall. Conversation is difficult and so is creative thinking. This is what I call being "stoned".

Cannabis sativa is what I grew and smoked exclusively. It is the variety used by spiritual sects in India, and is the pre-cursor to all Afghani hash. It produces a heady high that gives you energy, enhances creative thinking and has use for meditation. It's great for socializing and is a very get up and go kind of pot. This is what I call being "high".

All pot that is grown, with a few exceptions, comes in ratios of the above two. So for example, one strain may be 50% Indica and 50% Sativa... when you first smoke it, you will feel the heady, creative high, but as the effects wear off, it will fade into a dull, stoner high. The strains I grew and preferred were at least 80% sativa.

The vast, vast majority of pot that is distributed on the streets and through private dealers is predominantly indica. This is because the indica sub-species is smaller in size (for hiding), grows from seed to harvest in a shorter period of time, and the yield is usually higher. Sativas grow taller so they are harder to conceal in larger scale grow-ops, and they take longer to grow to maturity. Also, the best sativa varieties are outdoor ones which grow significantly larger, and anywhere that pot has illegal status makes it difficult to do this way.

So, as a result, most private growers who do grow sativas keep the harvest for themselves, as it is a far superior variety. They save the indica stuff for the streets because it is more suitable for mass production. Unfortunately, this also cheapens the effects for many, many people.

If people had the freedom to grow pot without fear of being caught, my belief is that more people would grow sativa strains and fewer people would be subject to being "stoned" and more would experience what a real "high" feels like. Because sativas naturally increase the speed and level of your thoughtfulness, I think it would actually be a benefit to society. Ancient cultures who use it for meditation chose it for this very reason.

Redress said:

I smoke cigarettes(and nobody is going to nag me to stop, it's my last remaining vice along with caffeine), and used to get high alot. I am really of two minds on the subject. I think people are much more self-destructive on weed than alcohol(people don't drink much at work, but getting high on breaks does happen), but it's not going to be stopped and prohibition is expensive. I don't think I would really advocate for or against it's legalization, though I would lean towards being against it.

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I have to ask you... what have you experienced that makes you think cannabis is more destructive than alcohol?

Orius said:

I have to ask you... what have you experienced that makes you think cannabis is more destructive than alcohol?

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As I said, one example is the greater prevalence of people getting high at work compared to drinking. It's not directly destructive, but getting caught is pretty destructive. I find that people who would not dream of drinking in certain situations(ie when you first get up, or at or before work, and so on) will get high in those situations.

Redress said:

As I said, one example is the greater prevalence of people getting high at work compared to drinking. It's not directly destructive, but getting caught is pretty destructive. I find that people who would not dream of drinking in certain situations(ie when you first get up, or at or before work, and so on) will get high in those situations.

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Sorry, but I guess our definitions of destructive are different. In my mind, it needs to cause severe dysfunction to your life for it to be called destructive. I've never known a pot head who wanted to start fights or got aggressive when he was high, or get into car accidents. Alcohol can cause all those things.

Orius said:

Sorry, but I guess our definitions of destructive are different. In my mind, it needs to cause severe dysfunction to your life for it to be called destructive. I've never known a pot head who wanted to start fights or got aggressive when he was high, or get into car accidents. Alcohol can cause all those things.

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Being high will definitely impair your ability to drive. Losing your job is much worse for you than getting into a bar fight.

Re: Non-smokers: Your views on marijuana

I don't smoke it, It puts me immedietly to sleep, and I am too athletic to really want that crap in my lungs anyway.

But it should be legal. GOvernment is too big and too intrusive as it is.

Redress said:

Losing your job is much worse for you than getting into a bar fight.

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Apparently you haven't seen some of the same types of bar fights I have.



And chemically, alcohol is a far greater danger overall than marijuana. Alcohol is one of a very small group of drugs where withdrawal symptoms can be fatal.

In moderation, neither one is terrible, but when abuse occurs, alcohol is much, much worse than marijuana.

It has the most severe withdrawal symptoms of any drug we know of. Heroin, cocaine, and nicotine withdrawal all pale in comparison to alcohol withdrawal. It causes hallucinations, severe pain, tremors, vomitting and sometimes death.

What you are describing with the MJ use at work is abuse, so we should compare apples to apples.

And don't smoke marijuana at all. Used to on occasion when I was a teenager, but I didn't really like it all that much.

But if I were to rank drugs in order of their overall danger, Alcohol makes my top three, but marijuana doesn't even make the top ten.

But I'm in favor of legalizing and regulating all drugs, including heroin and meth, not just marijuana.

Tucker Case said:

Apparently you haven't seen some of the same types of bar fights I have.



And chemically, alcohol is a far greater danger overall than marijuana. Alcohol is one of a very small group of drugs where withdrawal symptoms can be fatal.

In moderation, neither one is terrible, but when abuse occurs, alcohol is much, much worse than marijuana.

It has the most severe withdrawal symptoms of any drug we know of. Heroin, cocaine, and nicotine withdrawal all pale in comparison to alcohol withdrawal. It causes hallucinations, severe pain, tremors, vomitting and sometimes death.

What you are describing with the MJ use at work is abuse, so we should compare apples to apples.

And don't smoke marijuana at all. Used to on occasion when I was a teenager, but I didn't really like it all that much.

But if I were to rank drugs in order of their overall danger, Alcohol makes my top three, but marijuana doesn't even make the top ten.

But I'm in favor of legalizing and regulating all drugs, including heroin and meth, not just marijuana.

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I was not speaking to chemical/biological dangers at all. You are correct that alcohol has much worse withdrawals(trust me on this), but for whatever reason, to use your terms, abuse of pot seems much more likely among users. I am not sure if that is a social stigma thing(people who would not put up with some one coming to work drunk turn a blind eye to some one high at work), or due to a difference in the way they work on the mind, or what, it just seems from my experience that the incidence of pot abuse is higher among those who use it than alcohol.

celticlord said:

Yes, because if somebody wants to get high it should be no business of mine. Stoned or sober he's still responsible for what he does.

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if "what he does" impacts others, he has to pay.....but that has never been an effective deterrent yet.

There is, for the most part, no such thing as totally responsible use of intoxicants. There is almost always some kind of spillover effect..

MJ is the ONLY currently illegal drug I would vote to legalize, but I would also add more penalites to alcohol abuse at the same time...

Whatever the intoxicant, if you can't do it at home and do it without costing the taxpayer money, don't do it...

hiswoman said:

Yes, I think it should be legal, for the reasons already listed here and because my own observation says that stoned people usually don't cause as many problems as drunk people.

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Cops will tell you a stoner is usually mellow, and easy to arrest. A drunk, tho, wants to fight in a lot of cases....

Redress said:

I was not speaking to chemical/biological dangers at all. You are correct that alcohol has much worse withdrawals(trust me on this), but for whatever reason, to use your terms, abuse of pot seems much more likely among users. I am not sure if that is a social stigma thing(people who would not put up with some one coming to work drunk turn a blind eye to some one high at work), or due to a difference in the way they work on the mind, or what, it just seems from my experience that the incidence of pot abuse is higher among those who use it than alcohol.

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I don't think they are more likely to be abusers as much as I think the type of people who end up abusing pot are the same types who seem to revel in their abuse.

Alcoholism is something that many people try to hide. For some reason pot abuse is something stoners wear as a badge of honor.

I think it's inherent in the people who become abusers more than the drug itself.

I know many people who are moderate users of marijuana who would never dream of using pot at work.

I also know people who couldn't make it through a day without a drink.

Tucker Case said:

I don't think they are more likely to be abusers as much as I think the type of people who end up abusing pot are the same types who seem to revel in their abuse.

Alcoholism is something that many people try to hide. For some reason pot abuse is something stoners wear as a badge of honor.

I think it's inherent in the people who become abusers more than the drug itself.

I know many people who are moderate users of marijuana who would never dream of using pot at work.

I also know people who couldn't make it through a day without a drink.

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As for your first, you could well be right. It's hard when judging something from personnel experience, as you just lack data. I am guessing based on what I have seen, so take it for what it's worth.

The rest I agree with for sure.

Redress said:

As for your first, you could well be right. It's hard when judging something from personnel experience, as you just lack data. I am guessing based on what I have seen, so take it for what it's worth.

The rest I agree with for sure.

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I'm using a combo of personal experience and personal research on the subject.

I know too many people from both groups of abusers, and to be honest, the alcohol abusers are harder to spot in general everyday life until they get to a certain point, when the physical manifestations of their addiction become very obvious.

I have no concerns about legalizing marijuana, but I would be resistant to legalizing most other drugs.

No, I am against it.

We are already a pill popping, prescription drug taking, recreational drug overkill society.

We are the wealthiest, yet most chemical dependent nation on the face of the planet.

We dont need more pill popping, prescription drug taking, recreational drug using sickos running the streets legally.

If 2nd hand smoke is bad for you, then what is 2nd hand pot smoke gonna be?

Its to bad adults cant simply be adults and live a life without chemical dependency.

Legalizing drugs isnt going to solve anything. Ever seen people on drugs? I have seen enough friends fall to pieces on drugs, dont need to have it explained to me how its harmless and better then "X" or "Y".

Tucker Case said:

I'm using a combo of personal experience and personal research on the subject.

I know too many people from both groups of abusers, and to be honest, the alcohol abusers are harder to spot in general everyday life until they get to a certain point, when the physical manifestations of their addiction become very obvious.

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I wonder if the fact that alcohol abuse does have those physical manifestations is part of what I see. It's easier to hide pot abuse for extended periods. No one really knows how much you actually do.

Redress said:

I wonder if the fact that alcohol abuse does have those physical manifestations is part of what I see. It's easier to hide pot abuse for extended periods. No one really knows how much you actually do.

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To a degree, this is true. But there is a period of time that the physical manifestations of alcoholism are not easily spotted. During that time, alcoholics typically hide their abuse very well.

Once the physical manifestations are present they won't hide it as much, so when people think of alcoholics, they think of those obvious ones. They aren't thinking of the functional alcoholic who don't have overt symptoms.

Yes-- I don't smoke and support it

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There is no logical argument against Pot, and even if it was such a bad thing for people I still believe it aint worse then Cigarets of Alchohol and its a persons right to do as they please with their own bodies.

UtahBill said:

Cops will tell you a stoner is usually mellow, and easy to arrest. A drunk, tho, wants to fight in a lot of cases....

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Not necessarily. I've seen a lot of kids (gang-involved) get high before going to commit a serious/violent crime, like a drive-by shooting. It lowers inhibitions in many cases, just like alcohol does.

That is a common perception, though...that pot makes people mellow. It can also make them paranoid, risk-taking, and difficult to deal with. Depends on the person.

adjusting my drool bucket long enough to say

I don't smoke pot any more, but I smoked quite a bit in my youth. That, as well as hash and opium. I've snorted coke, I've dropped acid, eaten shrooms, ingested quite a few pharmecuticals and am certainly no stranger to the effects of various drugs.

As to those who state that pot turns people into drooling idiots, I can only question whether they know the difference between correlation and causation?

Re: Non-smokers: Your views on marijuana

It is an individual choice that I have no business in.

Re: Non-smokers: Your views on marijuana

Korimyr the Rat said:

I don't smoke it. I think it is a filthy, vile habit that turns people into stupid, drooling, useless piles of wasted genetic material and the fact that every single time someone makes the news by doing something extraordinarily retarded with it, an entire network-- a full-blown retardation conspiracy-- comes out in force to defend the living, breathing demonstration of dysgenic breeding by saying things like "dude, harsh" and "wtf its only pot" makes me wish that we'd never stopped spraying every piece of arable land in South America with paraquat on a regular basis.

That said, I vote for legalization. If someone is going to profit from the colossal uselessness of a sizable portion of the populace, I'd prefer that it were the American taxpayer instead of terrorist criminal gangs.

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I'm pretty sure the Beatles smoked dope. You talking about acting this way while smoking or after effects?

What you may be speaking of is being mellow, and I'm all for it.

We all know that I am a cigarette hater, but for whatever reason, I don't hate marijuana smoke. In fact, I like the smell of marijuana smoke. I DO NOT smoke it. I tried it when I was much, much younger (last time was before I graduated high school (1986)--a total of 3 times). I have zero interest in doing it now.

I would support legalizing marijuana. The illegalization is costing our government and people's lives way too much.

Re: Non-smokers: Your views on marijuana

peepnklown said:

It is an individual choice that I have no business in.

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Yeah, it is my business. A law telling you rather you can smoke or not IS my business.

OxymoronP said:

There is no logical argument against Pot, and even if it was such a bad thing for people I still believe it aint worse then Cigarets of Alchohol and its a persons right to do as they please with their own bodies.

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I love people who think that since they believe something, there can be no logical argument against it. Of course there are logical arguments against it. It's harmful and addictive and can influence people to make mistakes that can harm others(ie, impaired judgment). The question is whether those reasons are enough to outlaw it or not.