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Limits to Private Arsenals

Which should be legal for average citizens to own and use?


  • Total voters
    48
-How does -that- make them OK?
-How does registration not qualify as an infringement, under the 2nd amendment?



both questions can be answered in a variety of ways....so Ill chose my OPINIONATED take on them...

1) Under most state laws....semi-auto are legal for transport (hunting, shooting range etc...).

2) I choose to register ALL of my firearms for the reason stated here: If by chance one or more of my guns is/are stolen and used in the commission of a felony or other type of illegal activity. I WANT MY NAME TO BE CLEARED.

as for whether that is an infringement ....it could be or could not depending on HOW I VIEW IT...and I CHOOSE to register my guns...

if one chooses NOT ...thats fine by me.
 
I'm actually thinking of a fighter jet + ordinance. That might get a tad more pricey.

But even if your average joe could get ahold of one with ease, they are a bitch to conceal. :lol:

I would hire a team of tailors to make a gigantic pocket to put it into to conceal it. Surely that would work!
 
-How does registration not qualify as an infringement, under the 2nd amendment?

Good point. The 2nd doesn't say "shall make no law". Its much more prohibitive by saying "shall not be infringed"
 
I'm still waiting for the brochure and pricing on my new mig. Our forum arms dealer is slipping on the sales floor...
 
I'm still waiting for the brochure and pricing on my new mig. Our forum arms dealer is slipping on the sales floor...

Since you are new to Jets I would like you to start off with this nice one and then after you get your feet wet then we can start moving you up.


MIG-15 UTI • $48,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • Mig-15UTI , fliable. 2672 TTAF, 884.6 TTengine,91.6 SMOH, (March 2000) 37.6 hours since hot section inspected, Last Annual Nov. 2007. Aircraft 1st licensed in APR 1994 1st Airworthiness Granted 12/17/1993. All issues resolved at last Annual Inspection. New Main Tires and tubes, New Brake bladders and brake shoes, New Hydraulic and pneumatic hoses, new rear Canopy Section. Aircraft engine run and aircraft taxied at last annual, . Not flown since. Contact Alby Redick (775) 972-5540, for present condition of aircraft. (530) 559-7875.Conrad Warren, 7350 Friendship Drive, Lexington, OK 73051 • Contact Conrad K. Warren II, Owner - located Lexington, OK USA • Telephone: 530 559-7875 .

Or if you don't like this then may I suggest you this,

TS-11 ISKRA JET & SPARE ENGINE • $59,500 • FOR SALE OR TRADE • Pre-moratorium Registration - Fly Anytime & Anywhere with Pressurization. Mfg: 1978, S/N: 3H1711. Camera Recon version. TTA 1887. New spare tires and brakes. Front cockpit: KMA-24, KX-155, Apollo GX-55 GPS, KT-76A, KN-64, KR-87 & KI-227, KY-96A, KT Encoder, PM-1200 Intercom. Rear cockpit: KS-155, KI-227. External GPU Receptacle. Tow Bar and Single Lift Jack. Training available. Fun to fly up to 375 kts (Vne 405). Includes spare higher thrust engine (SO-3W at 2425 Lb. Thrust). Will consider trade of equivalent or less value. Click on Display Specs Page at bottom of Ad for more information. • Contact M. Smith, Broker - located Tuscaloosa, AL USA • Telephone: 205-335-8470 .
 
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Since you are new to Jets I would like you to start off with this nice one and then after you get your feet wet then we can start moving you up.


MIG-15 UTI • $48,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • Mig-15UTI , fliable. 2672 TTAF, 884.6 TTengine,91.6 SMOH, (March 2000) 37.6 hours since hot section inspected, Last Annual Nov. 2007. Aircraft 1st licensed in APR 1994 1st Airworthiness Granted 12/17/1993. All issues resolved at last Annual Inspection. New Main Tires and tubes, New Brake bladders and brake shoes, New Hydraulic and pneumatic hoses, new rear Canopy Section. Aircraft engine run and aircraft taxied at last annual, . Not flown since. Contact Alby Redick (775) 972-5540, for present condition of aircraft. (530) 559-7875.Conrad Warren, 7350 Friendship Drive, Lexington, OK 73051 • Contact Conrad K. Warren II, Owner - located Lexington, OK USA • Telephone: 530 559-7875 .

Or if you don't like this then may I suggest you this,

TS-11 ISKRA JET & SPARE ENGINE • $59,500 • FOR SALE OR TRADE • Pre-moratorium Registration - Fly Anytime & Anywhere with Pressurization. Mfg: 1978, S/N: 3H1711. Camera Recon version. TTA 1887. New spare tires and brakes. Front cockpit: KMA-24, KX-155, Apollo GX-55 GPS, KT-76A, KN-64, KR-87 & KI-227, KY-96A, KT Encoder, PM-1200 Intercom. Rear cockpit: KS-155, KI-227. External GPU Receptacle. Tow Bar and Single Lift Jack. Training available. Fun to fly up to 375 kts (Vne 405). Includes spare higher thrust engine (SO-3W at 2425 Lb. Thrust). Will consider trade of equivalent or less value. Click on Display Specs Page at bottom of Ad for more information. • Contact M. Smith, Broker - located Tuscaloosa, AL USA • Telephone: 205-335-8470 .

So what's the web site. And I don't want it if it doesn't come fully armed like you said.
 
So what's the web site. And I don't want it if it doesn't come fully armed like you said.

Airplanes & Aircraft Parts For Sale - Free Classified Ads - Ultralights to Airliners - Used Aircraft and Helicopter Sales and Classifieds including Cessna, Beechcraft, Piper, de Havilland, Boeing, Airbus and Lockheed planes

Also I never said that they came with full weapons all I every have said was that you can purchase former Military Jets, please show where I actually stated that they would come fully loaded with weapons.
 
2) I choose to register ALL of my firearms for the reason stated here: If by chance one or more of my guns is/are stolen and used in the commission of a felony or other type of illegal activity. I WANT MY NAME TO BE CLEARED.

All the registration does is lead the cops straight to your door if they find the weapon.

You're required by law to report stolen firearms, and doing that right away will clear your name. So the best thing to do is get rid of those ignorant unconstitutional bans on firearms and thus not deter people from reporting the theft of their property out of fear that an out of control government will punish them for the mere ownership of them.

Required registration absolutely is an infringement. It's saying "you can't own that gun unless you tell us", a restriction not sanctioned by the Second Amendment.
 
Nope you don't have to show any of these yes you do need an import license for Ex-Soviet Aircraft and certain Western Build Aircraft. As for the knowledge the only item the FAA ask for is an approved maintance program and that the pilot(s) have a the right amount of training in said airframe

Also you folks do understand that anyone can also go out and purchase say a T-54 Tank rebuild and drive it or a Sherman,King Tiger ect. ect. you don't need any special permit of training for Armor.

We are talking about fully armed aircraft and tanks, not just the aircraft and or vehicle. For the aircraft you do need the hours, that qualifies as oversite. In fact the thread itself is about weapons, not so much the vehicles.

Your argument has nothing at all to do with the point I was making.

In fact here is my statement:

"If someone owns a fully operational and armed jet fighter they need a license, period. They should have to prove they are knowledgeable in the operation and maintaining of such a destructive device. Much like our present laws on explosives etc. - Blackdog
 
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Airplanes & Aircraft Parts For Sale - Free Classified Ads - Ultralights to Airliners - Used Aircraft and Helicopter Sales and Classifieds including Cessna, Beechcraft, Piper, de Havilland, Boeing, Airbus and Lockheed planes

Also I never said that they came with full weapons all I every have said was that you can purchase former Military Jets, please show where I actually stated that they would come fully loaded with weapons.

Post 13 of this thread:

Ikari-Not really I can get you a fully loaded Mig21UT from Poland with Guns Ammo and Drop tanks for all under $100,000 USD, the cost of maintance isn't to bad about adverage of a mid-size twin engine aircraft.

As for Tanks my Cozz. owns a fully restored Churchill and Sherman, they cost him more in gas and maintance then my two WWII Training aircraft.
 
They also were not able to conceive of the internet, CNN, the telephone or using satellites to spy on people -- and yet, the Constitution covers these things.

Or, do you agree that it should not?

If you take into account the rest of what I said and don't take one paragraph out of context, you would see with perfect clarity.

"It is really sad that some people are unwilling to admit that times have changed. If common sense cannot be applied reasonably to account for our changing society, we mite as well issue in a new dark age right now.

The Constitution (as much as I believe in it) is over 200 years old. Society's, technology and people change. We have to adapt to these changes or be like a large part of the Middle East and still living in the 15th century.
" - Blackdog
 
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We are talking about fully armed aircraft and tanks, not just the aircraft and or vehicle. For the aircraft you do need the hours, that qualifies as oversite. In fact the thread itself is about weapons, not so much the vehicles.

Your argument has nothing at all to do with the point I was making.

In fact here is my statement:

"If someone owns a fully operational and armed jet fighter they need a license, period. They should have to prove they are knowledgeable in the operation and maintaining of such a destructive device. Much like our present laws on explosives etc. - Blackdog

Actually Blackdog my point has everything to do with the Op, in the list it states Jet Fighter nothing saying that they are fully armed. Someone said you couldn't get a Jet Fighter and I think I've done a rather good job of showing that you can purchase a Jet Fighter.

As for what you need no all you need is an import license period this is issued by ATF after that you can do what every you want with your Mig/Harrier/Drakken ect. ect. if you desire to fly them then you need to go thru the proper FAA paperwork which is rather easy to do also.
 
Post 13 of this thread:

All former Soviet era aircraft come with the gun in place as for the Ammo you can purchase that here in the United States, all the former Soviet stuff that I have seen have come with the guns in place when you unloaded them the ATF is their and disarms them for you it's all in the paperwork.

Hell I recall when the first Mig15s came from the Chinese navy in the early 80s they all had the guns and ammo in them and some of them actually came with cannon pods ready to install. it seems the guy who first start the purchase of the early Migs purchase the whole lot as is with all items.

Was a big shock to both the guy's who bought them and the ATF who were their to help unload.
 
Actually Blackdog my point has everything to do with the Op, in the list it states Jet Fighter nothing saying that they are fully armed. Someone said you couldn't get a Jet Fighter and I think I've done a rather good job of showing that you can purchase a Jet Fighter.

I never said you could not. So this again has nothing at all to do with my argument.

As for what you need no all you need is an import license period this is issued by ATF after that you can do what every you want with your Mig/Harrier/Drakken ect. ect. if you desire to fly them then you need to go thru the proper FAA paperwork which is rather easy to do also.

I don't believe I have to repeat myself again. My comment was about fully armed aircraft and over site as well as licenses for the weapons, not the aircraft or tank.

You have shown you need both to get the aircraft. Without a class 3 license you cannot get the (functional) weapons or munitions for the aircraft.

So again your statement had little to do with my point even though you backed up what I said.
 
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All former Soviet era aircraft come with the gun in place as for the Ammo you can purchase that here in the United States, all the former Soviet stuff that I have seen have come with the guns in place when you unloaded them the ATF is their and disarms them for you it's all in the paperwork.

Hell I recall when the first Mig15s came from the Chinese navy in the early 80s they all had the guns and ammo in them and some of them actually came with cannon pods ready to install. it seems the guy who first start the purchase of the early Migs purchase the whole lot as is with all items.

Was a big shock to both the guy's who bought them and the ATF who were their to help unload.

So then, you can or cannot get me a fully loaded mig with weapons and all?
 
VX :

???

Aersol Ebola :


I'm pretty sure the average citizen owning this is already illegal.

Nuclear Weapons :


Same as above.

Jet Fighters with full munitions :


The average rabid gun owner only owns one of these in his wet dreams.

Claymores and Mines:

No.

Anti-Armor Missiles :

Good luck affording them.

Machine Guns
Handguns
Automatic Rifles
: Meh - couldn't care less.

What people don't seem to realize is that even if they were allowed to own jet fighters, bottles of ebola and nuclear weapons most of the people who want them would not know how to use them properly to create any real damage and those that would know how to use them would probably be under very close government surveillance the moment they decide to buy something as dangerous as Ebola in any kind of significant quantity.
 
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.

What people don't seem to realize is that even if they were allowed to own jet fighters, bottles of ebola and nuclear weapons most of the people who want them would not know how to use them properly to create any real damage and those that would know how to use them would probably be under very close government surveillance the moment they decide to buy something as dangerous as Ebola in any kind of significant quantity.


Can't speak for the rest of your statement ,I can speak on the Jet Fighter stuff trust me when I tell you that us who own and operated these aircraft 1 Know how to use them and 2 most of us have at one time or another actually have used them in some sort of combat related flights.
 

VX is a nerve agent it's actual name is as follow's,

VX (S-[2-(diisopropylamino)ethyl]-O-ethyl methylphosphonothioate) nasty stuff that is outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993 the only Country know to actually to use in combat is Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.

It is an area denial weapon and is the most well know of the V-Series of Nerve Gas all and all some very nasty sh*t.
 
If you take into account the rest of what I said and don't take one paragraph out of context, you would see with perfect clarity.

"It is really sad that some people are unwilling to admit that times have changed. If common sense cannot be applied reasonably to account for our changing society, we mite as well issue in a new dark age right now.

The Constitution (as much as I believe in it) is over 200 years old. Society's, technology and people change. We have to adapt to these changes or be like a large part of the Middle East and still living in the 15th century.
" - Blackdog
I dont see an asnwer to my question.
Do you or do you not apply your 'technology has changed from the time of the founders and so the Constitution isnt really able to cover today's technology' to CNN, the internet and the telephone -- or not?
if not, why not?
 
both questions can be answered in a variety of ways....so Ill chose my OPINIONATED take on them...
1) Under most state laws....semi-auto are legal for transport (hunting, shooting range etc...).
No.. I asked why it is that registration makes it OK to own them.

2) I choose to register ALL of my firearms for the reason stated here: If by chance one or more of my guns is/are stolen and used in the commission of a felony or other type of illegal activity. I WANT MY NAME TO BE CLEARED.
Ok... but your post made it sound as if registration should be mandatory.
 
I dont see an asnwer to my question.
Do you or do you not apply your 'technology has changed from the time of the founders and so the Constitution isnt really able to cover today's technology' to CNN, the internet and the telephone -- or not?
if not, why not?

Why do you keep ignoring the words "reasonable" and "common sense." :roll:

I don't because using common sense or being a reasonable individual you can conclude an RPG is not the same threat to society as a CNN news report or someones blog.

It is the same kind of common sense that governs yelling fire in a crowded movie theater.
 
Why do you keep ignoring the words "reasonable" and "common sense."
Because these are subjective terms that allow you to apply your argument where you want to, rather than in a consistient manner. You dont want to have to do that, and so you use those weasel-words.

If you do not want to apply your argument across theboard because to do so seems unreasonable to you, that should tell you someting about the soundess of your argument.

I don't because using common sense or being a reasonable individual you can conclude an RPG is not the same threat to society as a CNN news report or someones blog.
Really? Is that why libel and slander and inciting a riot and giving away information that comprimises national security are legal?
Oh wait -- they arent! Why is that?
Because they create a threat to society sufficient to jusify the determinatiuon that they are outside the right of free speech, and so can be banned -- a threat that is at LEAST as great as an individual with an RPG.

So, why not require licenses for those that report the news and post a blog?

It is the same kind of common sense that governs yelling fire in a crowded movie theater.
Common sense doesnt play into that at all -- said prohibition is based on the idea that your rights extend only so far as they do not harm others.
 
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