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Pearl Harbor VS. 9/11

the two questions in the OP

  • Pearl Harbor changed America more

    Votes: 14 82.4%

  • 9-11 Changed America more

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • This generation showed more restraint

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the greatest generation showed more restraint

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Total voters
    17
Agent Ferris said:
What too soon? meh

A) Which has changed the U.S. more?

B) Which reaction was more restrained?
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A) Pearl Harbor turned the isolationist USA into a world power, so it is quite a big change. 9/11 provoked tensions between the USA and its allies, but it's less important than the change that occured in 1941 IMO

B) Pearl Harbor made the isolationist USA join a total war. I don't see how you can talk about "restrain" in their case
 
Pearl Harbor was huge, and totally changed the country and the world. 9/11 was not even close to having that kind of effect.

Not sure on the restraint issue. We reacted fairly strongly to both.
 
A) Pearl Harbor turned the isolationist USA into a world power, so it is quite a big change.
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The US was only "isolationist" for about 20 years. Also, the collapse of the European empires due to the war is pretty much what turned the US into a world power, and not the attack on Pearl Harbor.
 
both caused America to join wars.We dont know if The west will win this one.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The US was only "isolationist" for about 20 years. Also, the collapse of the European empires due to the war is pretty much what turned the US into a world power, and not the attack on Pearl Harbor.
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There were no European Empires during WWII that I can tell of.
Please explain.
 
There were no European Empires during WWII that I can tell of.
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I was primarily referring to the British Empire, although the French Empire also collapsed during World War 2. There were other empires that were of less significance in terms of global politics, such as the Belgium Empire, but I was not referring to these.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I was primarily referring to the British Empire, although the French Empire also collapsed during World War 2. There were other empires that were of less significance in terms of global politics, such as the Belgium Empire, but I was not referring to these.
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Not every nation can just be declared as an empire like that.
The British empire ceased to exist during the 19th century.
It was just a colonial power during WWII.
The Ottoman empire had collapsed after WWI, and the only thing that was close to an empire during WWII was the USSR, but it didn't collapse right after WWII.
 
Pearl Harbour was an attack by a openly Hostile nation state against a military target, while it was important and did force the US out of isolationism it didnt really change the situation in the Nation aside moving us out of the Economic uncertainy.

9/11 was an attack by an elusive enemy, one that cannot be simply defeated in military battle alone. 9/11 targetted civilians, and there is really nothing the enemy demands to stop such attacks aside the US converting to Islam and setting up a world wide Islamic caliphate. So this is a fight for ideas not territory, victory will be elusive until we are confident in our ideals.
 
Without a doubt, Pearl Harbor had a bigger impact on our society. At least up until this point, since it remains to be seen, through the scope of history, what our total response to 9/11 will be.

Our generation has shown greater restraint. No draft, no nukes dropped(as of this time). But I am not sure that showing restraint, is necessarily a good thing.
 
Not every nation can just be declared as an empire like that.
The British empire ceased to exist during the 19th century.
It was just a colonial power during WWII.
The Ottoman empire had collapsed after WWI, and the only thing that was close to an empire during WWII was the USSR, but it didn't collapse right after WWII.
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This is your opinion, and it is an unpopular one at that. The British Empire is a term widely used by historians to describe the colonial empire that existed formally up to the handing over of Hong Kong in 1997. The same is, of course, true with the French empire as well.
 
WI Crippler said:
Without a doubt, Pearl Harbor had a bigger impact on our society. At least up until this point, since it remains to be seen, through the scope of history, what our total response to 9/11 will be.

Our generation has shown greater restraint. No draft, no nukes dropped(as of this time). But I am not sure that showing restraint, is necessarily a good thing.
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Ummm who exactly would you like to Nuke? My vote is for Greenland, it obviously needs help living up to its name.
 
I vote Pearl Harbor. I like this thread it gave me an idea.
 
OxymoronP said:
Ummm who exactly would you like to Nuke? My vote is for Greenland, it obviously needs help living up to its name.
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Although I can see the value of a surgical strike against Greenland, I haven't suggested we nuke anybody(yet). I just don't think we are doing enough to win. When we fought the Japanese, we commited ourselves to victory. I don't feel like we have done that yet, which is why this war perpetuates. But I am willing to give it some time. This kind of war isn't an easy fix, and I recognize that.
 
The US was a "world power" well before Pearl Harbor. :roll:

The self-destruction of Europe in WWII opened the way to the US being the pre-eminent world power.
 
Redress said:
Pearl Harbor was huge, and totally changed the country and the world. 9/11 was not even close to having that kind of effect.
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Yes. And I cannot fathom why that is -- because, in any term you care to mention, the attack on 9/11 was far more egregious.
 
WI Crippler said:
Although I can see the value of a surgical strike against Greenland, I haven't suggested we nuke anybody(yet). I just don't think we are doing enough to win. When we fought the Japanese, we commited ourselves to victory. I don't feel like we have done that yet, which is why this war perpetuates. But I am willing to give it some time. This kind of war isn't an easy fix, and I recognize that.
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Yes but we were fighting a nation state, we are not fighting an organized enemy, rather an idealogical movement. We still havent defeated Cosa Nostra and they are responsible for many more deaths of Americans then any terror cell.
 
Goobieman said:
Yes. And I cannot fathom why that is -- because, in any term you care to mention, the attack on 9/11 was far more egregious.
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Why did Pearl Harbor have a larger effect?

1) The United States didn't have a metrosexual culture.

2) The United States didn't have a dominant Democrat party that blamed everything bad on the United Sates.

3) The American people recognized an act of war when they saw one.

4) The American President didn't run around babbling that Shintoism was a religion of peace.

5) American males grew up knowing that somethings require a fight.

6) Nobody falsely believed that the attack on Pearl Harbor was a crime best suited for the courts.

Basically, America had been infected by socialism/liberalism, but the disease at that time was not terminal.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Basically, America had been infected by socialism/liberalism, but the disease at that time was not terminal.
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Put more betterly:

The American Peeople, at the beginnign of WW2, had just come thru a decade of significant hardship. These people were molded by this expereince in such a way that they did not have the time or the patirnce form the silliness we see today.

Today, society has been infected by the attitudes of Boomer generation, whose collecitve experience is one of privilege and plenty that has created a pervasive (and yet so terribly unearned) attitude of entitlement and self-righterousness.

As a member of the leading edge of Gen X, I am embarassed by the Boomer generation. If the generation of my Grandparents were in charge today, 9/11 would have brought forth the same reaction as PH -- if not one stronger.
 
Even though 9-11 was shocking, it wasn't as big of a deal in the grand scheme. After the invasion of Afghanistan, most of the world moved on from the incident. I know it's hard to see it that way for Americans who were being lambasted by the media for years after, but most people in the world didn't hold onto it for that long. Really, 9-11 was just a pre-text for a new phase in American foreign policy.

Pearl Harbour had much longer lasting repercussions that affected the foreign policies, and eventually domestic infrastructures, of dozens of nations. It also lead to the direct confrontation between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.
 
I can't answer your poll in good conscience, because I don't think the current generation has shown more restraint, but less motivation and determination.
 
IMHO all though 9-11 killed more citizens (the vast majority of which were non-combatants) we have shown far more restraint in our reaction and personally I believe this to be a good thing considering the forces and technology at our disposal.
 
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Completely different and sadly shows that rather than learn as a nation we have digressed.

In Pearl Harbor, America responded to the attack by using our military to defeat our attacker

In 9/11, the administration manipulated and lied in order to justify a neo-con imperialism agenda and never did defeat our attackers.
 
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