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Revolution?

Will we have revolution? in your life time?

  • Yes we will have revolution and yes it will be in my lifetime

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • Yes we will someday have revolution but not any time soon.

    Votes: 6 33.3%

  • No it will not happen.

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    18
Arch Enemy said:
It's not going to last long, as the armed forces could wipe out any "massive" rebellion in mere hours.
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Iraq has definitely been no picnic. Also, U.S. citizens are well armed, some have weapons nearly as good or better as those used by U.S. soldiers. So I seriously doubt a quick snuffing of a revolution would be possible.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yes.

France preferred the guillotine.
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The French Revolution did not create socialism, it overthrew a monarchy and moved the nation from feudalism to democracy. WWII shifted the country from democracy to socialism, though it is still not quite a true socialistic government.
 
The only people who want a revolution in this country are bitter christians who cling to thier guns, tea partyers, dittoheads, Beckheads, and people like them who are unafraid to admit they are Republics. All these types of Republics do not have the bravery to put thier money where thier maker is. They are all talk, nothing more. Learn to live with the fact that you lost the election because your last President sucked, and it's your fault for voting for him twice.
 
ARealConservative said:
capitalism is voluntary association

The socialism you advocate through government is not voluntary.

So yes, this is a social community, but it is totally based on voluntary association and thus really has nothing in common with the politics you pursue.

Please stop being dishonest in attempting to paint your views as something ethical and voluntary.
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Before you call someone dishonest you may want to be more informed of the topic on which you speak.

Then explain to me how Your capitalism is more voluntary than my socialism. Please I am interested to know more.

You may want to tell me after you pay your income tax and your food tax and your gas tax and your inheritance tax and your tax on tax. let me know which of those is voluntary for you. I will stop paying that as well.
 
tlmorg02 said:
The French Revolution did not create socialism, it overthrew a monarchy and moved the nation from feudalism to democracy. WWII shifted the country from democracy to socialism, though it is still not quite a true socialistic government.
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Ah someone that has read history.
 
Inferno said:
Why do you equate socialism with hating the country?
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Because I'm honest and don't refuse to speak the truth merely because imbeciles don't want to hear it.

Inferno said:
I don't hate it. I think it could be made better.
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Socialism isn't "better", son. This country was founded on principles of individual liberty, self-reliance, self-respect, and responsiblity for one's actions.

Socialism is all about stealing from the productive so the non-productive don't have to face the consequences of their lack of personal responsibility, their lack of self-respect, and their lack of self-reliance, and that, and funnelling political power to the elites promoting socialism.

Inferno said:
I am after all a socialist and am part of a socialist community here.
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I feel sorry for you.

Have you tried Viagra?

Inferno said:
Socialism is an evolutionary growth from the death of capitalism. It is a natural occurrence and is where this country needs to go.
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No, this country doesn't need to die. It doesn't need to force my children into bondage. It needs to overthrow the socialism strangling it and, if necessary, shooting all the socialists that can be found.

Inferno said:
How can you judge Socialism so harshly when in fact there hasn't been a socialistic nation on the planet in modern times.
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Just look at all the failures, then. Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't you socialists learning spanish and emigrating? Russia was just a wonderful socialist paradise, yet you people stayed in the good old capitalist US of A and tried to make this country that you hate so much just like them. Why didn't you move to where you were wanted, instead? You've wrecked the economy. Happy about that?

Inferno said:
What makes you think that socialism does not promote personal responsibility more than social programs in a capitalist society. It fact in a socialist society you need to have a job.
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Government funded social programs don't exist in a free capitalist society, and aren't supposed to. The creation of unlimited socialist programs in the United States is the direct cause of all current deficits and economic problems.

How're you socialists going to fund Medicare and Socialist Security, which are both going belly up?

Inferno said:
Socialism is no more a force compliance than capitalism.
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Then you don't understand your religion.

There are a zillion socialist programs in effect in this country right now. Can I not pay taxes for them and not be punished?

No, if I don't pay the taxes, rude men with guns will eventually come knocking my door down and hauling me off to jail, if they don't shoot my children first. (Randy Weaver)

So what the hell are you babbling about the "voluntary" nature of socialism when no such thing exists?

Inferno said:
You like this system because it is the one you learned and have lived with since your youth. That's cool.
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I like the system that used to exist before the worst president ever, Wilson, began wrecking it with socialist changes.

Inferno said:
You may want to read up on what socialism really is before you outright knock it or kick it in a ditch.
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I know what socialism is. It's the tapeworm of the human soul.

You thought socialism was voluntary. I proved you wrong. Time for you to go back to school, not me.

Inferno said:
You have stated the capitalist party line in condemnation of socialism.
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I stated facts.

If a group of people state facts, it doesn't alter the fact that they're facts, not propagandistic lies.

Inferno said:
The problem is that you need to have a better picture of socialism then what you have and what most Americans have.
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I have an excellent picture of socialism:


30,000,000 civillians murdered, Germany WWII.
50,000,000 civillians murdered, USSR
20,000,000 civillians murdered, China
3,000,000 civillians murdered, Cambodia

I'd have to search out how many people were murdered by Castro and Che Gueverra, and the other wonderful socialists of South America, but right off the top of my head, socialism is responsible for a minimum of 103,000,000 dead people in less than fifty years.

We don't need more socialism and we need to teach the truth about socialism. Socialism is for little whiny children who are willing to believe a mama exists for them somewhere who will love them, feed them, and keep them warm and cuddled.

Freedom is for men.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Very good post. However, reform be what it may, Capitalists are searching out ever cheaper labor and operating costs, and in doing so are knocking down borders and national barriers. We live in a global economy now. How much longer before the haves and the have nots exist, absent a Middle Class which is under constant attack.
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Marxism is the prayer of the impoverished. We see African nation-states playing the North-South Relations role and bashing the North because of it's superior weaponry, technology, and vast access to rape whatever country it wants to, however the oppressed, whenever they rise up and rebel, are always repressed.

If an American Revolution were to occur, and for some unforeseen events led to the toppling of the current regime the rebuilding process would not turn into a Marxist Communism, as to rebuild one would require the most productive style of Economy-- Capitalism.

A Professor once told me a story of this bakery in West Berlin during Soviet Control, slightly before the Berlin Wall was built. How the bakery would not have to pay to stay in business, as they were expected to receive not money in return. However, the bakers' family, my professor witnessed, got better and better and better clothes, and even a car. The baker and his family stood out dramatically, so my Professor did a little recon. He told us that he followed the Baker's wife one day and found out that she crossed the divide, and she sold their bread for profit in East Berlin.

The power of Capitalism draws humans, as it is our nature to provide for our people and for our family.



tlmorg02 said:
Iraq has definitely been no picnic. Also, U.S. citizens are well armed, some have weapons nearly as good or better as those used by U.S. soldiers. So I seriously doubt a quick snuffing of a revolution would be possible.
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Inferno said:
Similar to the inept way we have handled Iraq. If it goes like that we can expect to have our asses handed to us in short order.
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It would be completely different. There would be no need to "go over there". There are bases everywhere within the United States. The Government operated Press would run stories of the "Terrorist" militants from the rogue-states whom want nothing but to kill people; they will all look like Timothy McVagh (sp?). There will be no mercy, and there will be no delay. A violent, large-scale, Revolution in the United States would require the rogue states to be completely decimated, making Sherman's March look like a picnic, or to accept Chinese or Russian help.
 
Inferno said:
Ah someone that has read history.
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If they'd read history, they'd have paid closer attention to what the Reign of Terror was about.

The convention was taken over and implemented "reforms" based on a voting franchise limited to the poor, and a fixed, low, bread price. Also, is fine socialist fashion, they implemented a purge of all enemies of the state, ie, anyone that didn't like this program. This purge led to the murder of, among others, Antoine LaVoissieur, the foremost chemist of his age who is widely recognized as having put chemistry on a scientific foundation.

The changes imposed were general conscription, confiscation of wheat from farmers, price fixing, wage freezes, and all the other economic terrorism one comes to expect from the people ignorant enough to promote socialism.

Yeah, that's not hard to figure out. Only a socialist would pretend to not see the socialist underpinnings of the Reign of Terror.

Another indication that it was indeed a socialist revolution is the fact that the socialists paved the way for a dictator. That's fairly typical of nations fatally infected with the socialist germ.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I have an excellent picture of socialism:


30,000,000 civillians murdered, Germany WWII.
50,000,000 civillians murdered, USSR
20,000,000 civillians murdered, China
3,000,000 civillians murdered, Cambodia

I'd have to search out how many people were murdered by Castro and Che Gueverra, and the other wonderful socialists of South America, but right off the top of my head, socialism is responsible for a minimum of 103,000,000 dead people in less than fifty years.

We don't need more socialism and we need to teach the truth about socialism. Socialism is for little whiny children who are willing to believe a mama exists for them somewhere who will love them, feed them, and keep them warm and cuddled.

Freedom is for men.
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Stalin killed because he was paranoid and powerful. Mao and Pol Pot killed because they thought the spread of Communism was more important than the lives of the people who he thought stood in thier way. Hitler killed and commited genocide to further the aims his third reich. With Russia, China, and Cambodia we're talking about full blown government ownership of the means of production, and then Hitler, a facist homicidal maniac with delusions of world domination. If you think Hitler's National Socialism has anything to do with socialism like Sweden has you couldn't be more wrong.

No offense Scarecrow, but this is the most misleading pedestrian oversimplification of a post I've seen in my time here at DB.
 
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Goldwaters said:
Stalin killed because he was paranoid and powerful.
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He was able to kill because socialist nations imbue power into a Glorious Leader, or, in the case of the United States, a Messiah.

Goldwaters said:
Mao killed because he thought the spread of Communism was more important than the lives of the people who he thought stood in his way.
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He was able to kill in the name of socialism because socialism granted him the power to do so.

Goldwaters said:
Hitler killed and commited genocide to further the aims his third reich.
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You are aware that the word "Nazi" was short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei , or National Socialist German Workers Party, right?

See there? That magic word? "Socialist".

How was he able to kill? The nature of socialism is to establish elite chains of command with a single Glorious Leader, or Messiah.

Goldwaters said:
We're talking about two full blown government ownerships of the means of production, and a facist homicidal maniac with delusions of world domination.
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Yes, we're talking about the failures of socialism.

Goldwaters said:
If you think Hitler's National Socialism has anything to do with socialism like Sweden has you couldn't be more wrong.
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Since I didn't say "sveeeeden", you couldn't be more wrong.

BTW, socialism is dying in "sveeeeden".

Goldwaters said:
No offense Scarecrow, but this is the most misleading pedestrian oversimplification of a post I've seen in my time here at DB.
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Then stop writing them.
 
To get back on the thread, no one in their right mind is going to start a revolution in the United States in today's world.

We're not protected by wide oceans any more.

We're severely weakened by a vast fifth column core of invading Mexicans, and no one could say what would happen with those people and Mexico if civil war broke out.

What would China, holder of our debt, do, if the US became unstable and severely threatened the guarantees that the debt would be repaid? Other nations have historically used military action and invasion in that event.

Nope, I can't see a revolution as anything except the death throes of a nation dying of socialist cancer of the brain and spine.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Because I'm honest and don't refuse to speak the truth merely because imbeciles don't want to hear it.

Socialism isn't "better", son. This country was founded on principles of individual liberty, self-reliance, self-respect, and responsiblity for one's actions.

Socialism is all about stealing from the productive so the non-productive don't have to face the consequences of their lack of personal responsibility, their lack of self-respect, and their lack of self-reliance, and that, and funnelling political power to the elites promoting socialism.



I feel sorry for you.

Have you tried Viagra?



No, this country doesn't need to die. It doesn't need to force my children into bondage. It needs to overthrow the socialism strangling it and, if necessary, shooting all the socialists that can be found.



Just look at all the failures, then. Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't you socialists learning spanish and emigrating? Russia was just a wonderful socialist paradise, yet you people stayed in the good old capitalist US of A and tried to make this country that you hate so much just like them. Why didn't you move to where you were wanted, instead? You've wrecked the economy. Happy about that?



Government funded social programs don't exist in a free capitalist society, and aren't supposed to. The creation of unlimited socialist programs in the United States is the direct cause of all current deficits and economic problems.

How're you socialists going to fund Medicare and Socialist Security, which are both going belly up?



Then you don't understand your religion.

There are a zillion socialist programs in effect in this country right now. Can I not pay taxes for them and not be punished?

No, if I don't pay the taxes, rude men with guns will eventually come knocking my door down and hauling me off to jail, if they don't shoot my children first. (Randy Weaver)

So what the hell are you babbling about the "voluntary" nature of socialism when no such thing exists?



I like the system that used to exist before the worst president ever, Wilson, began wrecking it with socialist changes.



I know what socialism is. It's the tapeworm of the human soul.

You thought socialism was voluntary. I proved you wrong. Time for you to go back to school, not me.



I stated facts.

If a group of people state facts, it doesn't alter the fact that they're facts, not propagandistic lies.




I have an excellent picture of socialism:


30,000,000 civillians murdered, Germany WWII.
50,000,000 civillians murdered, USSR
20,000,000 civillians murdered, China
3,000,000 civillians murdered, Cambodia

I'd have to search out how many people were murdered by Castro and Che Gueverra, and the other wonderful socialists of South America, but right off the top of my head, socialism is responsible for a minimum of 103,000,000 dead people in less than fifty years.

We don't need more socialism and we need to teach the truth about socialism. Socialism is for little whiny children who are willing to believe a mama exists for them somewhere who will love them, feed them, and keep them warm and cuddled.

Freedom is for men.
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Well we will start off by saying that i am not your son or anyone else's. I am after all a female and so I don't use Viagra either. Since i am a lesbian I am not interested in anyone that uses Viagra either. Will that out of the way we can continue.

Well your point about responsibility is a capitalist myth about socialism. There are no hand outs in socialism. There would be a retirement and a disability and a stipend while someone is changing jobs as a business closed. There is nothing else. If you don't work because you don't want to then you don't eat. So much for the handouts and lack of responsibility.

Wow i was going to answer this diatribe of yours piece by piece but i am afraid it is a rant and is really hard to make sense of.

30,000,000 civillians murdered, Germany WWII.
50,000,000 civillians murdered, USSR
20,000,000 civillians murdered, China
3,000,000 civillians murdered, Cambodia
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These that you listed were not socialist countries. Just because someone calls themselves something doesn't make it so. I.E. If you called yourself a horse it would not make you a horse. The same goes for a socialist.


There are a zillion socialist programs in effect in this country right now. Can I not pay taxes for them and not be punished?
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You object to socialist programs. I do too. They are the capitalist adjustment for the disparity in income between top and bottom. They are needed as the rich owner class and investor class rob from the worker.

They are an unfair tax. I see your problem with those. You are actually using the same debate my grandmother who would be 118 right now would have used.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
If they'd read history, they'd have paid closer attention to what the Reign of Terror was about.

The convention was taken over and implemented "reforms" based on a voting franchise limited to the poor, and a fixed, low, bread price. Also, is fine socialist fashion, they implemented a purge of all enemies of the state, ie, anyone that didn't like this program. This purge led to the murder of, among others, Antoine LaVoissieur, the foremost chemist of his age who is widely recognized as having put chemistry on a scientific foundation.

The changes imposed were general conscription, confiscation of wheat from farmers, price fixing, wage freezes, and all the other economic terrorism one comes to expect from the people ignorant enough to promote socialism.

Yeah, that's not hard to figure out. Only a socialist would pretend to not see the socialist underpinnings of the Reign of Terror.

Another indication that it was indeed a socialist revolution is the fact that the socialists paved the way for a dictator. That's fairly typical of nations fatally infected with the socialist germ.
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You are right about LaVoissieur, but incorrect about the rest. It was not socialism that you describe, but the take over of a revolution by the corrupt. The leadership of the revolution had all good intentions at first. Yet as human nature proves, absolute power corrupts absolutely, hence the reign of terror.

I am not even sure socialism can really exist, but you are confusing socialism with the false governments that have hidden their tyranny under the socialist banner. Perhaps that is the result of human nature and capitalism is necessary in order to insulate ourselves from the basic greed and corrupt nature within.
 
Ye know I find it weird, Scarecrow, that you can consider Socialism, as the tool of these men (Stalin, Che, Mao), the demon that needs to be banished. However, I am assure you are highly protective of Gun-Rights. Why do you not apply the logic that guns do not kill people, people kill people to Socialism?

I must remind you all. Socialism did not make these names (Stalin, Che, Mao), these names branded their own Socialism.
 
I think we should have a revolution. Every level of government, at least where I am from, should be destroyed.
 
Inferno said:
Americans are to complacent. They talk big but when push comes to shove they let the revolution pass them by. The 70's may have been our last best chance of revolution. It died on the vine.

I really do think that Americans are afraid of the idea. They have revolution confused with terrorism and can't get the concepts straight.
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No, we mean a revolution that INCREASES freedom and prosperity.
 
Oftencold said:
According to Jefferson, you need not call yourself such after a certain threshold has been crossed, because you are then merely exerting your rights against what is no longer a legitimate government.

Indeed, at such a pass, it isn't a "government" at all, but a criminal enterprise at best.
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That is exactly how I feel.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Ye know I find it weird, Scarecrow, that you can consider Socialism, as the tool of these men (Stalin, Che, Mao), the demon that needs to be banished. However, I am assure you are highly protective of Gun-Rights. Why do you not apply the logic that guns do not kill people, people kill people to Socialism?

I must remind you all. Socialism did not make these names (Stalin, Che, Mao), these names branded their own Socialism.
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This is an intelligent post. I like it. That is why I keep saying that there are bastardizations of socialism. These forms are not socialism in fact. They are concoctions thrown up by violent revolution. They make a tyrant leader.
 
Arch Enemy said:
It's not going to last long, as the armed forces could wipe out any "massive" rebellion in mere hours.
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We have a voluntary military. They are not firing at American soil or citizens.
 
Inferno said:
Well we will start off by saying that i am not your son or anyone else's. I am after all a female and so I don't use Viagra either. Since i am a lesbian I am not interested in anyone that uses Viagra either. Will that out of the way we can continue.
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Ask me if I care, babe. All socialists are misguided little children, so it's natural to talk down to them. They don't understand the harder concepts of life.

Inferno said:
Well your point about responsibility is a capitalist myth about socialism. There are no hand outs in socialism.
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No. Go ahead and explain Socialist Security without stating that the people who need it the most were the most irresponsible with their money, and also point out that the people getting it are getting way more than their lifetime "contribution" to the scam.

So, that's "free ride" and "lack of personal responsibility" on two counts right off the bat.

Inferno said:
There would be a retirement and a disability and a stipend while someone is changing jobs as a business closed.
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And why would a business close when all businesses are owned by everyone?

There couldn't be competition causing the closure, so ya can't blame capitalism. Why would a business close in Utopia?

Inferno said:
There is nothing else. If you don't work because you don't want to then you don't eat. So much for the handouts and lack of responsibility.
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So, what you'r saying is that you never studied how real socialism is applied in the socialist paradises you refuse to move to. With no prospect of self-improvement or advancement or other profit from their labors, the workers in socialist paradises don't bother to do more than the absolute minimum they can get away with.

Inferno said:
These that you listed were not socialist countries. Just because someone calls themselves something doesn't make it so. I.E. If you called yourself a horse it would not make you a horse. The same goes for a socialist.
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Ah, yes, the #1 Bogus Argument Talking Point taught to True Believers everywhere - the countries that failed weren't really socialist countries.

No one buys that in the real world.

Inferno said:
You object to socialist programs. I do too.
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You can't.

Socialism is all about stealing and re-distribution, and those socialist programs do just that.

Inferno said:
They are the capitalist adjustment for the disparity in income between top and bottom.
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You may have noticed, I know you did because you used the term, too, that I called them SOCIALIST programs, not capitalist programs. I don't use words by mistake.

Inferno said:
They are needed as the rich owner class and investor class rob from the worker.
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The people robbing the worker are the socialists demanding ever higher taxes.

Inferno said:
They are an unfair tax. I see your problem with those. You are actually using the same debate my grandmother who would be 118 right now would have used.
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So you grandmother was right, too. What's your problem, you didn't like the old lady?
 
Arch Enemy said:
I bet you like anarchism
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Being against this government, or even against some concepts of government, does not show opposition to any government. Maybe I should ask you why you like government so much?
 
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