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Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry


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Like I said it is a whole list of things. Can you see to people in a combat unit being involved protected sex or not? It would be a disaster.
First off, they shouldn't be to begin with. They should be able to control themselves or they shouldn't be soldiers.

Secondly, how would it be a "disaster"?


Oh that is not a sexist statement without any evidence to back it up. ;)

All you guys use said arguments for the reasons women shouldn't be there. Don't call me sexist for saying you all need to grow the **** up.

Let's see... two main arguments from the men:
1) The men will want to "protect" the women (problem with the men, not the women)
2)The men will be distracted (problem with the men, not the women)

So, the men are the ones making arguments that puts THEM as being the people with the problem, not the women.
 
So your saying you and other females had to road march with a 249 SAW or a m240,m60,35 pound ruck sack,24 hour road march and a 5 mile run and do the same amount and quality of push ups as your male counterparts for your age group as well as the same amount of time for your two mile run as your male counterparts for your age group? Considering the fact US Army infantry basic training is only at Fort Benning last time I checked I know you were not held to the same standards. So either they lowered the training for males at Fort Jackson or where ever else they have P.O.G. basic training, had separate basic training from the males or you are full of it.





No they don't.Maybe in the marines but even then to pass a pt test the standards are not the same.



United States Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Male PRT Standards

Female PRT Standards



U.S. Army Physical Fitness Chart - Males (Ages 17-21)

U.S. Army Physical Fitness Chart - Females (Ages 17-21)


Go to google and check out what the different standards for male and female Marines are. The only difference between requirements for male and female marines is: Males have to do : Dead hang pull ups and women Marines have to do Flex arm hand pull ups. I do believe the physical requirements for the Marines are more physically demading than the Army.
 
First off, they shouldn't be to begin with. They should be able to control themselves or they shouldn't be soldiers.

This is a ridicules statement. The average age of male and female soldiers is 19 to 20. This makes about as much sense as abstinence only programs.

Secondly, how would it be a "disaster"?

King, Charles A. The Trivialization of Gender and Its Impact on combat Effectiveness. Carlisle Barracks, PA, U.S. Army War College, 2000. 32 p.
Despite changing social imperatives and the demonstrated performance of women in the service the central issue remains - are combat organizations better served by gender integration and the attendant trivialization of gender? In order to bring fresh perspective to the issue, principles of complexity theory are applied to the question. In this context, it is evident that disregarding the essential nature of gender differences and their impact on relationships adversely effects a combat organizations ability to deal with the stress and chaos of war. The paper concludes that unrestricted gender integration is not in the best interest of the military or the society that it serves.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA377683&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

The link is to the full paper.

All you guys use said arguments for the reasons women shouldn't be there. Don't call me sexist for saying you all need to grow the **** up.

I am calling it sexist because you are blaming it on men. It works both ways.

You say “ALL you guys” as if I said anything about it. Please point it out?

Your comment is sexist whether you like it or not.

Let's see... two main arguments from the men:
1) The men will want to "protect" the women (problem with the men, not the women)
2)The men will be distracted (problem with the men, not the women)

These are not the main arguments, although they could be part of the larger problem.

So, the men are the ones making arguments that puts THEM as being the people with the problem, not the women.

This has nothing to do with my argument or this debate and is nothing more than fallacy again. Your comment was sexist as it does work both ways.
 
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Go to google and check out what the different standards for male and female Marines are. The only difference between requirements for male and female marines is: Males have to do : Dead hang pull ups and women Marines have to do Flex arm hand pull ups. I do believe the physical requirements for the Marines are more physically demading than the Army.

Actually allot of differences exist.

"To earn a perfect PFT score of 300 points, a male must do 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches in less than two minutes, and complete the three mile run in 18 minutes or less. A female perfect score is 70 seconds on the flexed arm hang, 100 crunches, and a 21 minute three mile run. Marines who score above a 285 receive certifications as an award for their higher than average fitness."

Male 100 Crunches in under 2 mins. Female 100 Crunches no time limit.
Male 20 Pull Ups. Female 70 secs hanging in the flex arm position.
Male 18 min 2 mile run. Female 21 min 3 mile run.

Sorry that is a huge difference.
 
This is a ridicules statement. The average age of male and female soldiers is 19 to 20. This makes about as much sense as abstinence only programs.
I still don't see the problem.


King, Charles A. The Trivialization of Gender and Its Impact on combat Effectiveness. Carlisle Barracks, PA, U.S. Army War College, 2000. 32 p.
Despite changing social imperatives and the demonstrated performance of women in the service the central issue remains - are combat organizations better served by gender integration and the attendant trivialization of gender? In order to bring fresh perspective to the issue, principles of complexity theory are applied to the question. In this context, it is evident that disregarding the essential nature of gender differences and their impact on relationships adversely effects a combat organizations ability to deal with the stress and chaos of war. The paper concludes that unrestricted gender integration is not in the best interest of the military or the society that it serves.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA377683&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

The link is to the full paper.
I have no doubt at all that it's a wonderfully written sexist document.


I am calling it sexist because you are blaming it on men. It works both ways.
I'm blaming it on men by quoting the same arguments they use? ROFL

You say “ALL you guys” as if I said anything about it. Please point it out?
I don't feel like re-reading every post in this thread. It's the most common so-called argument from men I've heard on any forum.

Your comment is sexist whether you like it or not.
Not my fault men use sexist arguments. I'm just quoting what they say.


These are not the main arguments, although they could be part of the larger problem.
Yes, they are. Both are rampant in this thread and every other on the subject.

This has nothing to do with my argument or this debate and is nothing more than fallacy again. Your comment was sexist as it does work both ways.
What works both ways? The men using those arguments? I don't see women using those arguments. So what is it that works both ways?
 
I still don't see the problem.

I have no doubt at all that it's a wonderfully written sexist document.

I'm blaming it on men by quoting the same arguments they use? ROFL

I don't feel like re-reading every post in this thread. It's the most common so-called argument from men I've heard on any forum.

Not my fault men use sexist arguments. I'm just quoting what they say.

Yes, they are. Both are rampant in this thread and every other on the subject.

What works both ways? The men using those arguments? I don't see women using those arguments. So what is it that works both ways?

No evidence and nothing but more fallacy. I give up. :roll:
 
No one person is equal to another when it comes to important issues such as combat. We cannot base our judgment on the value of individual equality.

That's why we have training to weed out those who cannot perform adequately. Women should be set to the same standards as men for that very reason.
The infantry training is supposed to simulate the combat itself.
If a female can pass those trainings on the same level a male is expected to, then go ahead and approve her into the infantry.
But if we'd find out that women-only stuff such as period and pregnancy prevent the females from doing their job correctly, then by no means should women be approved into infantry army service.

Also, I find it hard to believe that a female would be able to withstand staying in an uncomfortable position with the weapon loaded and ready to fire for hours without moving and without making a sound.
 
The infantry training is supposed to simulate the combat itself.
If a female can pass those trainings on the same level a male is expected to, then go ahead and approve her into the infantry.
Good, then we agree.

But if we'd find out that women-only stuff such as period and pregnancy prevent the females from doing their job correctly, then by no means should women be approved into infantry army service.
Indeed. Just as if "men's only stuff" such as getting laid or erectile dysfunction or getting female soldiers pregnant or being worried about if their buddy is gay or not prevent them from doing their jobs correctly, then by on means should those men be approved into infantry service.

Also, I find it hard to believe that a female would be able to withstand staying in an uncomfortable position with the weapon loaded and ready to fire for hours without moving and without making a sound.
Why on earth would you find that hard to believe? For instance, I know plenty of female hunters who would disagree with you.
 
Indeed. Just as if "men's only stuff" such as getting laid
lol wut
Why on earth would you find that hard to believe? For instance, I know plenty of female hunters who would disagree with you.
Hunters don't get to do what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about a bunch of soldiers standing back to back in an uncomfortable position for all night long, ready to open fire in every little second and staying still without making a sound.
I didn't know hunters do that.
 
lol wut
Hunters don't get to do what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about a bunch of soldiers standing back to back in an uncomfortable position for all night long, ready to open fire in every little second and staying still without making a sound.
I didn't know hunters do that.

Hunters I know that use tree stands, stand still, silent, with a loaded gun for hours on end.

Regardless, I fail to see why in the world anyone would think a woman incapable of standing still.
 
Hunters I know that use tree stands, stand still, silent, with a loaded gun for hours on end.
I find it odd that you compare between an hunter who simply hunts his animal prey and a soldier who needs to stand on guard for whole nights and days to ensure that he wouldn't be caught off-guard by the enemy and killed.

Regardless, I fail to see why in the world anyone would think a woman incapable of standing still.
I confess, it started as a joke.
 
I find it odd that you compare between an hunter who simply hunts his animal prey and a soldier who needs to stand on guard for whole nights and days to ensure that he wouldn't be caught off-guard by the enemy and killed.
I compare the act of standing still and silent.

I confess, it started as a joke.
Very well then
 
I compare the act of standing still and silent.
I didn't know hunters stand still and stay silent for hours when they hunt.
I thought they pretty much find their prey, follow it stealthy and strike.
 
I didn't know hunters stand still and stay silent for hours when they hunt.
I thought they pretty much find their prey, follow it stealthy and strike.

The ones that hunt on foot, sure. But not the ones that use tree stands.

How Tree Stands Work

Once you've found a good location, the key is remaining still and quiet. Even though you may be dressed head to toe in camouflage and your stand may be hidden with branches and leaves, deer still notice when you move.
 
The ones that hunt on foot, sure. But not the ones that use tree stands.

How Tree Stands Work
I'm sorry but this tree stand thing sounds way easier than sitting on your toes with an heavy equipment, armor, and a machine gun for all night long, where every second counts and you must not lose focus on your sight.
 
I'm sorry but this tree stand thing sounds way easier than sitting on your toes with an heavy equipment, armor, and a machine gun for all night long, where every second counts and you must not lose focus on your sight.

I never said anything about equipment. I stated that they sit still and quiet, and alert, with a loaded gun waiting to shoot. Which is exactly what you said you doubted women could do.

I thought you were only joking anyway, so... ?
 
I never said anything about equipment. I stated that they sit still and quiet, and alert, with a loaded gun waiting to shoot. Which is exactly what you said you doubted women could do.

I thought you were only joking anyway, so... ?
I was joking about the 'women can't do that' thing, not that soldiers don't have to do that.
They do.
 
Go to google and check out what the different standards for male and female Marines are. The only difference between requirements for male and female marines is: Males have to do : Dead hang pull ups and women Marines have to do Flex arm hand pull ups. .

Hanging there and actually doing pull ups are two completely different things.

I could be but this is hanging in the flex arm position(we would have to ask the resident marine to see if this is true). The minimum any female in the marines must do this is 15 seconds.

cfa2bfig5-6-main_Full.jpg



I do believe the physical requirements for the Marines are more physically demading than the Army

To get a minimum passing score on a pt test they are not. Crunches are just half way sit ups and you only need do minimum 50 half way sit ups in the marines if you are a male, males(17-21 age group) in the army have to do a minimum of 53 whole sit ups, males in the marines have to do a minimum of 3 pull ups while males in the army have to do 42 push-ups.The minimum 3 mile run time males in the marines must do is 28 minutes,that is basically 9 minutes 33 seconds to do each mile, Males in the army must do a two mile run in 15 minutes 54 seconds, that is 7 minutes and 57 seconds for each mile.
 
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I would have to say train them but don't make them fight, most women act off there own emotions and in war you should have no emotions that would only get people killed along with killing yourself.

* Now not all women are like this just the ones I have encountered.
 
I would have to say train them but don't make them fight, most women act off there own emotions and in war you should have no emotions that would only get people killed along with killing yourself.

* Now not all women are like this just the ones I have encountered.
what could be cooler than a cat fight during combat :thumbs:
 
If you're good enough, you're man enough.

Thanks, Very well put. Right now we are sending our troops over and over again to combat situations and it is destroying thier families and their mental health. If women can show they can qualify to do the job then why not use them? Our overused troops need all the help they can get and I don't think they will care one bit where the relief comes from.
 
I think it's pretty ridiculous that there is a ban on females being in a combat role. There are plenty of women that can shoot as well and better than I do and hey, that's what infantry does.
 
I think it's pretty ridiculous that there is a ban on females being in a combat role. There are plenty of women that can shoot as well and better than I do and hey, that's what infantry does.

The problem is that is not all that infantry, artillery and armor do.
 
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