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What Happens to California Now?

What Happens Next?

  • Election Results are Challenged in Court and the Will of the Voters is Overturned.

    Votes: 2 8.0%

  • The Messiah Farts Out a "Miracle" and Unlimited Federal Money Flows to Sacramento

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • The Same People Get Re-Elected, Again.

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Whatever Happens, The Taxpayer Gets Screwed

    Votes: 20 80.0%
  • Total voters
    25
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The first step to loss prevention is to get rid of the non-paying customers.
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Agreed on principle, don't think it matters in actually solving the problem. Having a classroom with 40 legal and 5 illegal students costs the same as a class with 45 legal students.

Once the class sizes have been stabilized at thirty per, which is small enough if the teacher is half-way competent, then we start booting the teachers, not to mention ditching all the free-loading admin.
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California has been losing students for years, most schools that were going year-round are returning to traditional schedules. However, the teacher unions don't want to lose any teachers under any circumstances, they want zero lay-offs, zero pay-cuts, even if they've got one student per classroom. You're fighting a massively powerful and very wealthy union that pretty much controls Sacramento. The biggest problem is that most of the really incompetent teachers are the ones with seniority and tenure and can't be fired for pretty much any reason unless they blatantly break the law and even then, the unions will fight it.

Cite the clause in the Constitution allowing the federal government regulation over public schools.
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When has that stopped them? You don't think the federal government gives a damn, do you?

So? How much help does poison need, anyway?
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The poison doesn't need help at all, it's the people who have been poisoned that might need a little aid. However, that's not the point, the point is that Schwarzenegger is using scare tactics with his potential cuts, just like he did a couple weeks ago when he said he was going to fire firefighters (right before the Santa Barbara wildfire). The unions have so much power that their members can never be laid off. Schwarzenegger signed the contract with SEIU, luckily it stalled in the legislature, that guaranteed that none of their 95,000 members could be laid off or have their pay or benefits cut for any reason.

This is how Sacramento works.

Guess what? I don't use the poison help line, so let them cut it.
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That's a pretty shallow way of looking at things. I don't use the local hospital either, should we just close it? I can't tell you the last time I needed the police or the fire department. Better shut 'em down.

What drove GM into bankruptcy was it's failure to produce cars people wanted to buy.
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At a price people were willing to pay and the reason they had to charge so much for their cars is the ridiculous pensions and salaries that they got roped into. I don't remember the exact figures, but something like $1000 out of the profit for every single GM car sold, maybe it's even more, is already spoken for, paying for pensions. California is even worse off, 75% of every dollar we take in is already spoken for, paying for state-employee pensions and benefits. And you know something? They all have legal contracts that cannot legally be violated just because we have no money to pay them.
 
Cephus said:
You notice Schwarzenegger's list of cuts doesn't mention a penny being cut from the $10 billion we currently spend on illegal aliens, right? And the unions are completely safe, Schwarzenegger keeps signing contracts making them lay-off proof, as he did with the 95,000-member SEIU back in February. They cannot be laid off, they cannot get pay cuts, they don't have to deal with the same reality that every other American does. The state of California is run by the unions, in fact when they had closed-door budget sessions back in February, the only time they were allowed out of the lockdown was so the Democrats could talk to their union bosses for instructions.

It's just ridiculous.
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I am beyond emotion. All that needs to happen is for all the legislators and Schwarzenegger to have a big party, and for all of them to choke to death on their martini olives. They all need to idiopathically and ananthropogenically expire.
 
Cephus said:
Agreed on principle, don't think it matters in actually solving the problem. Having a classroom with 40 legal and 5 illegal students costs the same as a class with 45 legal students.
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Well, first off, ****can the 5 invader brats.

Secondly, the classes have thirty kids in them, not fifty, so we'll deal with something approximating real numbers.

Take the twenty five kids left, take five over classes just like them, so there's six classes of twenty five kids each, then turn them into five classes of thirty kids each, and fire one of the six teachers, for a 17% savings in teacher costs.

Tell the surviving five teachers we don't want to hear **** about class size any more because many of us can remember being in classes of thirty five and or so we learned just fine, so we could play the Six Turns Into Five Musical Chairs game again if they get uppity.

Then we look at the school administrators and fire half of them right off the bat. Don't need 'em, they don't produce anything useful, so trash 'em and tell them to find a real job. Apples come into season right around fall, don't they?


Oh, and then we look at the students and the parents and say, "well, we don't want to be totally unfair to the teachers. If your little darlings break the law, they're getting arrested and expelled from school if convicted. If they have a bad habit of disrupting class, we'll send them straight home to you, and you can watch them, because we don't have the time or money to do your job."

Cephus said:
California has been losing students for years,
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Okay. That means, naturally, that the school budgets should have been going down, not up.

Cephus said:
However, the teacher unions don't want to lose any teachers under any circumstances, they want zero lay-offs, zero pay-cuts, even if they've got one student per classroom. You're fighting a massively powerful and very wealthy union that pretty much controls Sacramento. The biggest problem is that most of the really incompetent teachers are the ones with seniority and tenure and can't be fired for pretty much any reason unless they blatantly break the law and even then, the unions will fight it.
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Yeah, allowing the retards to run the reform school is retarded in itself.

So implement a policy of permanent striker replacement. Of course, that means the voters have to get off their dead asses and votes for people who represent their interests, not the unions.

Voters are damsn stupid creatures. Look at how many voted for a Messiah in 2008.

I never once said there wasn any hope. There's no hope at all. The death of a republic is always the same, the voters commit national suicide and eventually a tyrant promising them the moon takes over and puts slave collars on them. Our tyrant bears the name "Hussein".

Cephus said:
That's a pretty shallow way of looking at things. I don't use the local hospital either, should we just close it?
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If I'm paying for your local hospital, it sounds good to me.
 
TOJ said:
I'm sure they will be greatly upset that you, someone from CO, find it unacceptable. :lol:


.
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Hey, don't begrudge him his support. If we get a money laundering scheme going like the government does for their unions and special interests, Vader could be a big part of our rebellion.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Well, first off, ****can the 5 invader brats.
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Let us all know when you grow up and can handle an adult conversation.

Secondly, the classes have thirty kids in them, not fifty, so we'll deal with something approximating real numbers.
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Your ideal class size might, in the real world that's not necessarily the case. But regardless, 30 legal students and 25 legal and 5 illegal students cost basically the same, you're ignoring the point of the argument for the minutia.

Okay. That means, naturally, that the school budgets should have been going down, not up.
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Would be nice, but we have scheduled increases in school budgets that go into effect whether there is a financial need or not. It's stupid, but that's how the system works at the moment. Virtually all of the "cuts" that Schwarzenegger is talking about right now are cuts to scheduled increases, not cuts to existing budgets. Like most politicians, he's playing with imaginary money.

Yeah, allowing the retards to run the reform school is retarded in itself.
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Which I agree with entirely, but that's the situation we're in. We need to deal with the facts, not the fantasy that you wish was true. The reality is, there are teachers we're paying millions of dollars to every year to do nothing at all. They are being "evaluated for fitness" for years on end, paid daily to sit in an empty room and do nothing at all. It's idiotic, but that damn teacher's union contract requires that it happens.

Voters are damsn stupid creatures. Look at how many voted for a Messiah in 2008.
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Look at how many morons voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. You had a point?

If I'm paying for your local hospital, it sounds good to me.
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I guess I was right after all, you really are tremendously shallow. I guess as bad as our current administration might be, we can all be thankful you've got absolutely no power.
 
Cephus said:
Let us all know when you grow up and can handle an adult conversation.
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Let us know when you figure out how to handle the real world.

Cephus said:
Your ideal class size might, in the real world that's not necessarily the case. But regardless, 30 legal students and 25 legal and 5 illegal students cost basically the same, you're ignoring the point of the argument for the minutia.
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So you're a graduate of public school and you found the math I provided you too incredibly difficult so you decided to ignore it because it's math and doesn't mean anything, right?
 
One idea that's kicking around the web is to split California into smaller states with more manageable economies and politics, and write new constitutions for all of them. Here's one such proposal:

breakingviews | California breakup

Obviously the politics of this would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible. But what do you guys think about the merits of the idea?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
So you're a graduate of public school and you found the math I provided you too incredibly difficult so you decided to ignore it because it's math and doesn't mean anything, right?
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Actually private school where I was class valedictorian, plus having degrees in computer science and mathematics. But that doesn't mean anything because it disagrees with you, right? :doh
 
Cephus said:
Actually private school where I was class valedictorian, plus having degrees in computer science and mathematics. But that doesn't mean anything because it disagrees with you, right? :doh
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Homeschooled, eh? :mrgreen:


.
 
Cephus said:
The poison doesn't need help at all, it's the people who have been poisoned that might need a little aid. However, that's not the point, the point is that Schwarzenegger is using scare tactics with his potential cuts, just like he did a couple weeks ago when he said he was going to fire firefighters (right before the Santa Barbara wildfire). The unions have so much power that their members can never be laid off. Schwarzenegger signed the contract with SEIU, luckily it stalled in the legislature, that guaranteed that none of their 95,000 members could be laid off or have their pay or benefits cut for any reason.

This is how Sacramento works.
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No truer words were spoken. Every Governor has always threatened lay offs and cut backs for state workers around contract negotiation times. But I must add...California state workers in spite of cutbacks and forced unpaid days off still have a great gig. They have a benefits package that would make UAW workers in the 90's drool.
 
Kandahar said:
One idea that's kicking around the web is to split California into smaller states with more manageable economies and politics, and write new constitutions for all of them. Here's one such proposal:

breakingviews | California breakup

Obviously the politics of this would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible. But what do you guys think about the merits of the idea?
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Can't see any reason for that, it won't fix the issue of rampant socialism destroying the state, and merely generate yet more layers of government, not to mention more idiot senators.
 
Cephus said:
Actually private school where I was class valedictorian, plus having degrees in computer science and mathematics. But that doesn't mean anything because it disagrees with you, right? :doh
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So you have toilet paper. I don't care. I taught myself calculus, so it's not like I consider a degree in mathematics anything to respect.

Since you found the math presented to you overly complicated, what you clearly failed to learn was the ability to apply your peices of paper to the resolution of real world problems.
 
mikeey said:
Hi Cripper looks like your right again,DOG EAT DOG,haha,never mind m8 look
after your self,y not,also u have a good turn of English,better than me.

i should study Rabbie burns or Shakespeare trying my best for U.

all the best to U and your family.

mikeey
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Translation:

mikeey said:
Holy **** I was thinking the same thing :)
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Can't see any reason for that, it won't fix the issue of rampant socialism destroying the state,
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One of the problems with California is that it's so big. Splitting it up would divide it into more manageable economic chunks. California has more people than many European countries, all of which are divided into smaller subunits which have varying degrees of control over themselves. But California doesn't really have any subunits (other than individual counties).

The idea is that if it were split up and new constitutions were written for each new state, then each part could pursue the economic policies that it wanted to. And none of them could possibly be considered "too big to fail."

As for "rampant socialism destroying the state," if the new states were allowed to go their own way independent of each other, some of them would choose more business-friendly policies. And the states that would continue borrow-and-spend policies would at least confine their economic problems to a smaller region of the country.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
and merely generate yet more layers of government, not to mention more idiot senators.
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The total number of senators is not really an issue. Going from 100 to, say, 106 senators would not really affect the way that the Senate functions. If you're concerned about the party affiliation of the senators, that would also be a wash. If the state was divided up into four regions, the Senate split would probably be roughly 5-3 in favor of Democrats...so the partisan balance of power would be unchanged.

Just an idea though. I don't think it could ever actually happen.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
They saved us from Gore and the Gigolo, didn't they? So they had to have something on the ball.
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Just like Obama saved us from McCain and the MILF. Still waiting for your point.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Since you found the math presented to you overly complicated, what you clearly failed to learn was the ability to apply your peices of paper to the resolution of real world problems.
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I'm still waiting for you to actually present the problem, something you've entirely failed to do. How do five illegal kids, just the kids, not their parents, present additional financial costs to a school. Go ahead, spell it out for us all, show us you're not just posturing, back your claim up or admit to the class that you're just a right-wing blowhard.
 
How would all of you anti-Bailout California people feel about California refusing to continue to help bailout the rest of the country? It would go like this: California passes an (admittedly) illegal law stating that California residents can withhold payment of 20% of their federal taxes due, as long as they donate the money to the California government.

I'm completely uninterested (as is probably everyone else) in the obvious legal difficulties California residents would face in utilizing the option, etc. I am interested in whether it would be fair for California residents to take such a stance.
 
Dezaad said:
How would all of you anti-Bailout California people feel about California refusing to continue to help bailout the rest of the country? It would go like this: California passes an (admittedly) illegal law stating that California residents can withhold payment of 20% of their federal taxes due, as long as they donate the money to the California government.

I'm completely uninterested (as is probably everyone else) in the obvious legal difficulties California residents would face in utilizing the option, etc. I am interested in whether it would be fair for California residents to take such a stance.
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I say go for it. California takes more federal money than it sends to DC in taxes, so if we stop the flow of money in both directions the rest of the country comes out ahead.
 
celticlord said:
I say go for it. California takes more federal money than it sends to DC in taxes, so if we stop the flow of money in both directions the rest of the country comes out ahead.
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Source please.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf

These are 2004 figures. If California is getting more because of the economic crisis, it's temporary. California was the #1 revenue generator for America between 1946-2008.
 
What happens is California becomes an even more overpriced hell hole and everybody moves out.

The result is that California will become a vaccant, over-priced, empty shell.

Adolf Schwarsenegger will see to that.
 
The funny thing is, Chevron has been running radio commercials that start off saying "The rest of the nation looks to California to see what the future is like."

Great, the future for the country is everyone is financially screwed and their politicians will refuse to do what it takes to fix the problem. I'm sure everyone is thrilled with the prospect of their state going down the drain like California is.
 
Ethereal said:
They'll get bailed out.

Prediction: The Federal government will become insolvent, the world will reject our currency and refuse to further finance out debt, systemic collapse. All because we couldn't let inefficient models of business and government fail. Allow creative destruction to take place and we will be out of this mess in less than two years.
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Agree, but it won't happen. We will continue down the road of national socialism as our economic and governmental model.
 
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