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Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?


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My persona reinforcement is Nancy Reagan, got I love that woman in a way. "Just say no" is the first thing I say every day. The above quote is true on a lot of levels, some that I cannot even come close to articulating.
Nancy Reagan was awesome in how she got people talking about a problem that most people didn't acknowlege. I also admire Betty Ford. Betty and Nancy did alot to remove stigma's and taboos surrounding alchoholism and addiction.
 
Well do me a favour and try it. Then ill believe you. ;)

Then you agree, it doesn't take A LOT of alcohol to kill someone.

My bad, when compared to other illegal drugs.

Prove it.

I know, your point?

Your position is based entirely upon your subjective definition of "excessive" and the false notion that you have the right or obligation to prevent others from engaging in "excess" or being harmed. You do not.

Furthermore, how would you go about defining "excessive" alcohol consumption? How would you go about enforcing such a policy?
 
Wrong, the British PM ignored his own scientific review board NOT to upgrade the scheduling because the lower scheduling resulted in REDUCED use. The police in England say that they are not going to change how they operate and continue giving warnings instead of hard time.

Actually, your wrong. I just realized it was Canabis that was upgraded, not weed. Dont know what your talking about mate.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cannabis law change 'illogical'
The reclassification of cannabis as a Class B drug has come into effect in England and Wales amid complaints the new laws are "illogical".

Ministers went against their advisors to upgrade the drug because of worries about its impact on mental health.

Magistrates welcomed the reclassification but said planned fines for possessing small amounts undermined the more serious classification.

PS: I dont neccessarily agree with them upgrading it to a class B drug.
 
Then you agree, it doesn't take A LOT of alcohol to kill someone.

I told you, try it out. Then i know what your saying isnt an assumption ;)

Prove it.

You want me to prove if alcohol is worse than cocain? Lol. Ignorant.

Your position is based entirely upon your subjective definition of "excessive" and the false notion that you have the right or obligation to prevent others from engaging in "excess" or being harmed. You do not.

Noo...my argument is drugs like Cocaine should be outlawed because takers pose a threat to society aswell as its very addictive nature. If everybody got addicted to cocaine, what would that do to society? I suppose we legalize underage sex too, yeah? Cause its the kids choice (Y)
 
Actually, your wrong. I just realized it was Canabis that was upgraded, not weed. Dont know what your talking about mate.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cannabis law change 'illogical'


PS: I dont neccessarily agree with them upgrading it to a class B drug.

Cannabis is weed. Marijuana is its political name but Cannabis is its real name, the name of the plant.

Upgrading the status is the result of Conservative politics, but it won't change anything. Police won't waste their time going after people for smoking a joint.

It's the Conservatives who were behind prohibition of alcohol in the U.S., and that was the perfect opportunity for society to gather data and see that prohibition does not work. Legalization results in reduced abuse and an increase in moderate use, and it eliminates the social stigma attached to criminalization so that people who are addicts can openly seek help.
 
So making drugs availible to the public is harm reduction?
Yes. Now you're getting it.

- The potency of drugs can be accurately portrayed, similar to alcohol percentage or proof, which would reduce the number of overdoses.

- The content can be regulated for quality and safety, so people won't be using drugs that have been floating in somebody's gas tank or hidden in laundry detergent for days or weeks, and the drugs won't be cut or mixed with dangerous chemicals by thugs on the street looking to stretch their product and make more money.

- Police will know where all drugs are sold, and thus can more effectively watch for and prevent sales to minors.

- Addicts can freely seek treatment without having to worry about facing possible criminal charges.

- Drug gangs and dealers would be out of business within a month.

- Police can refocus their resources and taxpayer dollars toward fighting actual crime.

- And so on.

I can bet you the sellers will undercut the selling price of legal fees at every turn. The government will probably end up taxing the drugs. There is no winning, same amount of tax payers money going down the drain, same old crap. The policies for the war on drugs need to be reformed. By legalizing, they have won the war.
This doesn't make any sense. How do you define "winning" the war on drugs? And how do you figure it's the same amount of tax dollars down the drain? I can't follow you here at all, sorry.

So if its that easy, how would a government regulate that? And your advocating cocaine be availible in liquor stores?
It works for alcohol, there's no reason to believe it won't work for any other drug.

Making cocaine illegal doesnt make sense to you?
No, not one bit of sense. The way to address the problem is to reduce demand through education, not incarceration.


Ah right, i remember this. Sorry i forgot about this, it was a long time ago. The results of relaxation of these laws showed they where having negative impacts on British society so they tightened them a few years later and upgraded the drug to class B. Imagine legalization?
Can you please link to a credible source that describes the reasons why they reversed that position?


Im using my common sense.
I know your "common sense" argument seems logical, but it has not played out in reality. That's because there are more variables here than what your logic accounts for. You're completely ignoring the effects of social attitudes and norms. You assume legalization automatically means glamorization, and that's simply not true.

Common sense dictates it will be used more, just like chocolate will be consumed more if it was being sold at cheaper rates. People will be more enticed to try it.
Now you're assuming people will never consider the health hazards and just smoke/snort/inject whatever is put in front of them. Honestly, would you go shoot up heroin if you could buy some at the store? No? Then what makes you think everyone else will? It makes no sense.


In any case, you too cannot prove otherwise.
No, that's not how this works. It's your claim that drug use would increase when legalized, so the burden of proof is on you to prove this assertion or admit that it's nothing more than a myth unsupported by facts.
 
I agree with Jerry. Weed smokers next door? Fine. Shroom children next door? Fine. Methheads on my block? Not even cool. Even if they currently exist I don't want it to become readily available for their consumption. I've never seen anybody got into a crazy rage over weed. I've seen a few meth addicts go right f'n insane for it. Drugs that can make people overdose? Not even remotely cool. It's bad enough that enough ibuprofen can make for your last headache. We don't need to add more **** that can be a direct consequence of your death.
 
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I told you, try it out. Then i know what your saying isnt an assumption ;)

Good thing for me people have already tried it - it's called college.

When police found Bradley McCue, a student from Michigan State University, they saw that he was unconscious, his nose was painted red, and the words "24 shots" were scribbled across his forehead.

An autopsy revealed that McCue had a blood alcohol level of .44 percent. Witnesses said that he drank 24 shots of liquor in less than two hours. He died of acute alcohol intoxication--also known as alcohol poisoning [1].


So, he took approximately 24 shots of liquor within approximately two hours. The typical shot glass is two ounces [2]:

gi45330.jpg


Let's assume the size of Bradley's shot glass was twice the usual size (four ounces). Twenty four shots, four ounces per shot, ninety-six ounces of liquor. That's thirty ounces less than a gallon and a gallon of Popov Vodka costs $19.98 [3]. Wow, that was hard.

You want me to prove if alcohol is worse than cocain? Lol. Ignorant.

Yes, prove it. By the way, have you ever tried cocaine?

Noo...my argument is drugs like Cocaine should be outlawed because takers pose a threat to society

Don't people who consume alcohol pose a threat to society?

aswell as its very addictive nature.

Isn't alcohol very addictive?

If everybody got addicted to cocaine, what would that do to society?

If everybody got addicted to alcohol, what would that do to society?

I suppose we legalize underage sex too, yeah? Cause its the kids choice (Y)

I'm talking about adults.


[1] - Hazelden -- Alcohol poisoning: Drinking too much too fast can kill you
[2] - Shot Glass : Cobalt Shot Glass Twelve Piece Set
[3] - Alcohol Shopper-Your Guide To Informed Cheap Drinking
 
I agree with Jerry. Weed smokers next door? Fine. Shroom children next door? Fine. Methheads on my block? Not even cool.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that if meth were legalized meth-heads would suddenly start popping up on your block?

Even if they currently exist I don't want it to become readily available for their consumption.

I'm not sure how "readily" available meth would be amongst the general populace if it were legalized. Such a substance would incur very stringent regulations. Are you suggesting perhaps that it would be made available in gas stations and grocery stores?

I've never seen anybody got into a crazy rage over weed. I've seen a few meth addicts go right f'n insane for it. Drugs that can make people overdose? Not even remotely cool. It's bad enough that enough ibuprofen can make for your last headache. We don't need to add more **** that can be a direct consequence of your death.

It's already out there and it's never going away. Bring addiction into the light of society where we can identify and mitigate it, instead of pushing it into the dark where it festers and grows.
 
I don't understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that if meth were legalized meth-heads would suddenly start popping up on your block?

Pretty much, yeah.

I'm not sure how "readily" available meth would be amongst the general populace if it were legalized. Such a substance would incur very stringent regulations. Are you suggesting perhaps that it would be made available in gas stations and grocery stores?

If I owned a company that produced a now-legal recreational meth product, you're damn right that's exactly what I would go for.

It's already out there and it's never going away.

Mhmm, you're point?

Bring addiction into the light of society where we can identify and mitigate it, instead of pushing it into the dark where it festers and grows.

Yeah they said the same thing about prostitution and abortion.
 
Pretty much, yeah.

What are you basing this on?

If I owned a company that produced a now-legal recreational meth product, you're damn right that's exactly what I would go for.

And considering the kind of regulation they would incur from selling meth, what makes you think gas stations and grocery stores would accept your business? Last time I checked, gas stations were interested in selling gas, and grocery stores were interested in selling groceries. I'm not sure Exxon Mobile is interested becoming a heavily regulated dispenser of meth who just happens to sell gasoline.

Mhmm, you're point?

I hadn't made it yet.

Yeah they said the same thing about prostitution

Well, I agree with "them". What's your point?

and abortion.

How is abortion in anyway applicable to this discussion?
 
And considering the kind of regulation they would incur from selling meth, what makes you think gas stations and grocery stores would accept your business?

If the regulations are that cumbersome, meth houses will remain quite lucrative....and dangerous.

Meth needs to be separated from other drugs in regards to legalization. And considering meth is devil spawn of the drug war anyway, let's drain the swamp of this one. A legal and cheaper alternate....namely cocaine will eliminate 99% of the demand anyway.

I say we legalize meth at the same time we legalize bio-weapons....never
 
What are you basing this on?

The existing level of meth abuse in my city and in nearly every reservation in my state.

And considering the kind of regulation they would incur from selling meth, what makes you think gas stations and grocery stores would accept your business? Last time I checked, gas stations were interested in selling gas, and grocery stores were interested in selling groceries. I'm not sure Exxon Mobile is interested becoming a heavily regulated dispenser of meth who just happens to sell gasoline.

Every casino, Most gas stations and grocery stores out here also sell cigarettes and liqueur. If pot is legalised I would expect to see packs of roaches right next to the Marboros; shrumes right next to the chewing tobacco.

Same thing with meth. I would expect Family Thrift to keep it in a locked cabinet right next to the cigarettes and Niccerette. Safeway might choose to keep it in their stylish liqueur department.

I hadn't made it yet.

That much is apparent.

Well, I agree with "them". What's your point?

All the evidence shows that they were wrong.

How is abortion in anyway applicable to this discussion?

"Legalize it to make it safe" ring a bell?

The number of abortions per year increased exponentially after it was legalized. There's no way to make meth safe like you can with a medical procedure, but you can lie and tell people you can. They lied about cigarettes for decades.
 
I don't understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that if meth were legalized meth-heads would suddenly start popping up on your block?

No. I'm saying that as far as I know right now the laws against drugs have been indiscriminate between drugs that A) can not give you an overdose and B) drugs that can. I'm all for keeping drugs that can kill illegal. While making drugs that can't legal. Have you ever heard of a mushroom overdose? I haven't. You ever heard of a meth overdose? I have. Now bring up the alcohol, cigarete references. Just so I can ask you : How many people have you heard about dying from a single smoke/drink as opposed to people who have died from a single hit of heroin.

I'm not sure how "readily" available meth would be amongst the general populace if it were legalized. Such a substance would incur very stringent regulations. Are you suggesting perhaps that it would be made available in gas stations and grocery stores?

Crystal meth is a beautiful drug because it can be created in your garage and the initial intensity of the drug keeps the users chasing their first high. With that said your argument assumes that the makers of crystal meth(currently Mexican cartels) have any incentive to let the government regulate their business. How is the government who can not even find the already running meth labs in trailers in Iowa and Utah supposed to regulate them when they become legal for sale?

It's already out there and it's never going away. Bring addiction into the light of society where we can identify and mitigate it, instead of pushing it into the dark where it festers and grows.

What exactly is your point? That because addiction to hard drugs is not going away then it should be legalized? Well pedophilia is not going away either so by your logic we should legalize it. What you're arguing here is letting a rabid chihuahua lose and letting a rabid pitbull lose then claiming their attacks will amount to the same type of damage. Sorry. But they won't.
 
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If the regulations are that cumbersome, meth houses will remain quite lucrative....and dangerous.

I said stringent, not cumbersome. The regulations would be specific and enforced heavily, but it would not place an unreasonable encumbrance upon people who wished to purchase it.

Meth needs to be separated from other drugs in regards to legalization. And considering meth is devil spawn of the drug war anyway, let's drain the swamp of this one. A legal and cheaper alternate....namely cocaine will eliminate 99% of the demand anyway.

If cocaine could eliminate 99% of the demand then why would meth need to remain criminalized? Also, why would we want to push the remaining addicts into the dark, where they can never receive help? Drug addiction is a fungal infection - it thrives in dark, damp places.

I say we legalize meth at the same time we legalize bio-weapons....never

Noted.
 
I said stringent, not cumbersome. The regulations would be specific and enforced heavily, but it would not place an unreasonable encumbrance upon people who wished to purchase it.

it is my understanding that what amounts to toxic waste is a byproduct of meth production. So although the controls may not be unreasonable, they will be costly which will create a black market.

If cocaine could eliminate 99% of the demand then why would meth need to remain criminalized?

Because of the dangers in meth production

Also, why would we want to push the remaining addicts into the dark, where they can never receive help? Drug addiction is a fungal infection - it thrives in dark, damp places.

why can't they get help?
 
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I would like to know what the carbine footprint would be for the typical legal-meth plant?
 
The existing level of meth abuse in my city and in nearly every reservation in my state.

So, upon legalization of meth, addicts will suddenly start popping up down the street from you and Hatuey because people abuse meth right now in other places?

Every casino, Most gas stations and grocery stores out here also sell cigarettes and liqueur.

Neither of these drugs are meth, therefore they would not be subject to the same regulations.

If pot is legalised I would expect to see packs of roaches right next to the Marboros; shrumes right next to the chewing tobacco.

"Roaches" are extinguished marijuana joints. Anyway, I could certainly see marijuana products being sold in a similar fashion as tobacco. Psilocybin might be subject to more stringent regulations. I think the point I'm trying to make is that not all drugs are the same, therefore they should not be treated as such.

Same thing with meth. I would expect Family Thrift to keep it in a locked cabinet right next to the cigarettes and Niccerette. Safeway might choose to keep it in their stylish liqueur department.

What makes you think either of these places could acquire a license to sell meth? What makes you think either of these places would be willing to incur heavy regulation in order to sell meth? What makes you think communities and local governments wouldn't control where and when meth can be sold?

That much is apparent.

Okay?

All the evidence shows that they were wrong.

What evidence? I remember discussing this with you and most of the evidence you provided was suspect. Mostly just broken links or dead-ends.

"Legalize it to make it safe" ring a bell?

Well, it is safer.

The number of abortions per year increased exponentially after it was legalized.

You'll have to draw some more parallels between abortion and drugs besides their legal status if you want to validate your analogy.
 
So, upon legalization of meth, addicts will suddenly start popping up down the street from you and Hatuey because people abuse meth right now in other places?

Yup.

It's a problem barely under control now. People don't just sit in their home and get high, they have to get the money, and in case you didn't know a meth addict has a notoriously difficult time holding down a job.

So they turn to crime.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that not all drugs are the same, therefore they should not be treated as such.

Well no ****. Since I started the thread with that understanding as an assumed premis, I have no idea what new point you are trying to make.

What makes you think either of these places could acquire a license to sell meth?

Uh, that would be the point of legalizing meth...so people can buy it....:roll:

What makes you think either of these places would be willing to incur heavy regulation in order to sell meth?

Money.

What makes you think communities and local governments wouldn't control where and when meth can be sold?

They already do, but people like you want to end that control.


Exactly.

What evidence? I remember discussing this with you and most of the evidence you provided was suspect. Mostly just broken links or dead-ends.

One or 2 were changed between the time of that debate and when I gave them earlier, and since I gave them to you before and they didn't change your mind, I don't see what giving them again would accomplish.

You'll have to draw some more parallels between abortion and drugs besides their legal status if you want to validate your analogy.

It is the legal status my analogy is about, so whatever.
 
No. I'm saying that as far as I know right now the laws against drugs have been indiscriminate between drugs that A) can not give you an overdose and B) drugs that can. I'm all for keeping drugs that can kill illegal. While making drugs that can't legal. Have you ever heard of a mushroom overdose? I haven't. You ever heard of a meth overdose? I have. Now bring up the alcohol, cigarete references. Just so I can ask you : How many people have you heard about dying from a single smoke/drink as opposed to people who have died from a single hit of heroin.

So, a more accurate description of your position would be to criminalize drugs which can kill in a single dosage, not necessarily those that can kill?

Crystal meth is a beautiful drug because it can be created in your garage and the initial intensity of the drug keeps the users chasing their first high. With that said your argument assumes that the makers of crystal meth(currently Mexican cartels) have any incentive to let the government regulate their business. How is the government who can not even find the already running meth labs in trailers in Iowa and Utah supposed to regulate them when they become legal for sale?

Because legal businesses operate within plain view of society?

What exactly is your point? That because addiction to hard drugs is not going away then it should be legalized?

Partly. The other half of my point is that legalization will help society combat addiction more effectively.

Well pedophilia is not going away either so by your logic we should legalize it.

I don't think legalizing child molestation would help society combat pedophilia, so, no, it's not my logic.

What you're arguing here is letting a rabid chihuahua lose and letting a rabid pitbull lose then claiming their attacks will amount to the same type of damage. Sorry. But they won't.

I'm saying that both have been loose for some time and both have attacked millions of people. The idea that society has confined either animal is a joke.
 
I don't think legalizing child molestation would help society combat pedophilia, so, no, it's not my logic.

No that's EXACTLY what you're saying.

________ isn't going away, so legalize it.

"People do it anyway" is the ONLY reason you give. You NEVER say what makes a given thing unique, why it should be made legal and not others.

We shouldn't have to tell you to do this.

This is why the Loosertarian party fails every time. Society doesn't want everything that some token minority does outside the law sanctioned by the law simply because that token minority will do it anyway.

You're going to have to start coming up with actual reasoning if you want anyone to get behind your view.
 
You know what? **** this thread. I'm not supporting legal-meth no mater what argument you pull out of your ass. Why? BECAUSE IT'S **METH**

Pot, sure, shrumes, fine, meth (etc), never.

I'm not open to discussing legal recreational hard drugs, I've seen first hand how drugs have destroyed the lives of my family.

So, yeah, I'll save you some time and just bow out.

See you at the voting booth :2wave:
 
So, a more accurate description of your position would be to criminalize drugs which can kill in a single dosage, not necessarily those that can kill?

No. Drugs which can kill. Marijuana use regardless of how much of you use will NEVER lead to an overdose. Same goes for shrooms. Drugs that can lead to overdose = bad. Drugs that can't = Good.

Because legal businesses operate within plain view of society?

And what is your point exatcly? That this would not be a product which the government would have NO control whatsoever even after legalization? You're arguing that because Microsoft screws up from time to time that it is above the law. As we all know that is not true. Drugs are different however. The moment kids using legally bought meth start dying there will be a public outcry for it to be banned again the same way the government takes so many drugs off the shelves every year. Same goes for coke, heroin etc.

Partly. The other half of my point is that legalization will help society combat addiction more effectively.

In this case. It won't. Meth users aren't looking for a way out. They are chasing. The moment you tell a person they can use a drug that is likely to kill them then you give them absolutely no incentive to stop using it.

I don't think legalizing child molestation would help society combat pedophilia, so, no, it's not my logic.

Really? Why not? Wouldn't it bring pedophiles into the light and thus allow us to help them? Your argument assumes that these people will want to be helped. As we all know. The majority do not. They want to keep chasing.

I'm saying that both have been loose for some time and both have attacked millions of people. The idea that society has confined either animal is a joke.

And your solution is to legalize it in the hopes that by some magical train of thought addicts will want to be helped when their favorite addiction is now legalized?
 
You know what? **** this thread. I'm not supporting legal-meth no mater what argument you pull out of your ass. Why? BECAUSE IT'S **METH**

Pot, sure, shrumes, fine, meth (etc), never.

I'm not open to discussing legal recreational hard drugs, I've seen first hand how drugs have destroyed the lives of my family.

So, yeah, I'll save you some time and just bow out.

See you at the voting booth :2wave:

You know Jerry, I hate meth too but I understand that no amount of saying "its bad" is going to stop some people from doing it.

Real life examples of fail are needed to show others what not to do.
 
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