Are some words inherently offensive or is context important?

dclxvinoise said:

I stand by my belief that no word is inherently offensive.

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*nod* I admit I got caught up beating the wrong drum. I stand by my comments regarding sensitivity, but must concede that no word can be "inherently" offensive, as Zyphlin also correctly pointed out.

aaronssongs said:

I never use certain words...must I suffer them because others use them?

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In a word, yes. Free speech is a bitch, ain't it?

Evidently, I must, in certain circles. Sooner or later, I may come to the conclusion that I must remove myself from a toxic environment...but it will be at my choosing, not of anyone else's. My main reason for leaving Political Forums was being attacked for pointing out racism and homophobia, in similar situations. Seems the same types are germane to each and every forum.
Should I cower and run...or do I stand and fight against blatant racism and homophobia from last persons who should be racist and homophobic, other gay people? I'm here, for the time being. Get into some acceptance about it.
And bring your "A" game.

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If racism and homophobia are actually in play, I think you should point it out. What I can't stand is when someone cries "wolf" and claims racism and homophobia where there actually is none. Like in the instance of Ms. California and all the flak she caught. There was no sense in people calling her a homophobe when her answer was about as far from hateful as one could imagine. It was just wrong and classless to treat her the way she was treated. It also diminishes those times that homophobia is real.

In regards to respecting other people in regards to THEIR feelings about words, here's my general rule.

I will speak as I speak. I'm not going to censor myself permanently because I may randomly find someone that somehow things something I say is offensive. If I feel like I've been ripped off by a car salesman I may say "The guy just gypped me". It may very well come out naturally. I'm not going to spank myself or shock myself or condition myself not to say it because there is a slight chance that I might randomly be within hearing distance to a Romani who may find it offensive. The same goes for other words, and I fully and completely feel the same way in regards to what other people say as well. Now if I know someone near me is going to be offended by it, then I likely wouldn't.

IF I am around someone and I say something that offends them and they politely go "hey man, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but that's kind of offensive to me. You mind not saying that around me?" I'd say cool and make sure to try and not use such a word whiel I'm around that person to be respectful.

HOWEVER

If I do say something offensive and they blow up at me, start calling me a racist or a bigot or an incensitive person, or start insulting me or degrading ME for using a word not in an insulting context but simply USING it than most likely they're going to get ignored. If I said something completely benignly and it offended someone and they come back and INTENTINOALLY try to insult and offend me my sympathy for them is nil. Nothing in my original action was meant to show them disrespect, but if they're response is to PURPOSEFULLY show me disrespect then they will get the same in kind. Perhaps, to me, the fact that you will willfully and fully begin to insult someone for simply using a word that they have no way to definitively know you would find offensive, and to use it in a non-offensive way, and make broad accusations PERSONALLY against them is FAR more offensive to me than someone going "wow that looks gay" or "I swear how many times did that comedian just say the n-word" or "I was tired as a mother****er the other night" or some other kind of relatively benign or non-intentionally offensive use of a word.

aaronssongs said:

If the general consensus is "anything goes", and I employ it, totally disregarding my position, but being mindful of why I'm doing it (to make a point, hyperbole, to be clear), the hypocrisy doesn't stem from me. I'm clear. Are others clear why others choose to continue to use terms and words which some find offensive?
What other explanation could there be but arrogance and continuance of "white privilege"?

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This is a bit ridiculous as it assumes that all these bad words come out of the mouths of white folks. The last person I heard blathering on about the awfulness of "dykes" was a gay man. The last person I heard talking about towel heads was a black army friend.

If someone is toxic and using such words to offend you why should you continue to be in their presence? I wouldn't.

But I find this whole thing about white arrogance and continuance of white privilege to be mock worthy. A half black, half white man is our President. That means tons of white folks voted for him. Given that it's hard to take your dramatics on the topic seriously. Are there racists? Sure. Is it uniquely a white persons problem? Absolutely not. I know a black man who took huge amounts of crap from black women for dating a white girl. While the white girls family and friends give him ZERO crap. So you can just spare me the whole, "Damn white people, " crapola.

Actually, Jall brings up a great example.

If some girl made a statement that she doesn't personally agree with gay marriage but the good thing about America is individual places can decide what's best for their states I don't see that as being incredibly offensive. I can see how someone could take it as offensive, but I don't see it aggregiously so, nor is it aimed at anyone in particular.

HOWEVER

If some guy, even if its a gay guy, decides that the proper response to that is to go "She's a Dumb Bitch and a Homophobic ****" then I would be FAR more bothered and be far more offended by that, relatively speaking, than I would to the previous thing as its purposefully hurtful and purposefully targetted at a specific person.

Or for even more current events...

I think its far more offensive to call someone "A faggot mother****er" than it is to tell someones mother "You raised a thug", but yet guess which one of those has got more focus and more condemnation in the media, to the extent of even sly accusations of racism, and which one has been gotten glossed over.

talloulou said:

So you can just spare me the whole, "Damn white people, " crapola.

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So true, so true. But it's a throwback to that whole victimhood mentality I spoke of earlier. "My life ain't what I think it ought to be so it's got to be da' man's fault. Down wit whitey!!!" Indulging that lowlife sentiment is the problem, not the white people around the poor soul. Although, I have to admit that this sentiment is partially white folks' fault to start with because we implemented policies which enable the victimhood mentality and other policies, such as affirmative action, which enabled the successes of the lowest common denominators in the african american community.

Zyphlin said:

"A faggot mother****er"

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Is that some sort of oxymoron?

dclxvinoise said:

This is in regards to the discussion going on in this thread.

Personally, I think it's stupid to view any word as inherently offensive when it is just a word. In the proper context it can be completely offensive, but we shouldn't just ban it from being used in any context because some people give the word more power than it should have. It comes off as fear to me, and an irrational one at that. What does everyone else think?

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I tend to think that there are certain words that cross the line. I think is because they have been used as slurs for so long they have been empowered.

Being a lesbian I have heard most of the terms for gays and lesbians all my life. I have taken the power they used to have over me away. When I was young the Q word used to make me cry. I would sit in my room alone and weep over that word. The D word used to get me as well. I saw the way my reaction gave those words a power over my life.

I am 57 now now and I have a tattoo on my right arm it is simply the words I'm queer. It's small and hardly noticeable. But it has eased that old hurt. I have a coat that says Dyke. I have had that for years. Words hurt and cause pain and have power as long as we allow them too.

I see that Gwendoline brought up the word Feminist. That has become a dirty word for women that have ideas and thoughts. It belittles and abuses us if we let it. There are so many words that hurt and do damage if we allow it.

I don't allow it anymore. There is an interesting term for gays and lesbians that I like to tell the history of. The word Fagot. LOL silly word. It means really a bunch of sticks or kindling for starting a fire. That is where the word came from toss another fagot on the fire. The term is horrendous. It's not funny at all. Yet the power it has as a word is gone. I am a Fagot as well.

There are four words the work together that we should all say more often. those words are. "ACCEPTANCE IS THE ANSWER"

If we say those in harmony the others lose all the power they ever had.

talloulou said:

This is a bit ridiculous as it assumes that all these bad words come out of the mouths of white folks. The last person I heard blathering on about the awfulness of "dykes" was a gay man. The last person I heard talking about towel heads was a black army friend.

If someone is toxic and using such words to offend you why should you continue to be in their presence? I wouldn't.

But I find this whole thing about white arrogance and continuance of white privilege to be mock worthy. A half black, half white man is our President. That means tons of white folks voted for him. Given that it's hard to take your dramatics on the topic seriously. Are there racists? Sure. Is it uniquely a white persons problem? Absolutely not. I know a black man who took huge amounts of crap from black women for dating a white girl. While the white girls family and friends give him ZERO crap. So you can just spare me the whole, "Damn white people, " crapola.

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You took everything that I said out of context, when context has been a point of issue in this thread.
I didn't mean it as a "blanket indictment", of course. But the only ones who ought to be trying on that shoe are the ones it would "fit".
You don't subscribe to the notion of "white privilege". Fair enough. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and isn't a real and everyday occurrence.
The question comes up, can black people be equally racist and obnoxious?
Of course they can. Anyone can be.
So what you're suggesting is that nothing much here is going to change, in regards to folks using offensive language and racial epithets. I'm given the choice of pretending that it doesn't matter, or finding somewhere else to be, after the drydocking of the boat. Thanks.
In regards to any questions about "white privilege", I refer you to the following site, with essays on the subject, written by other "whites":
UCCS | WPC Articles
PDF Articles
Caucus and Support Groups
Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack
Roots and Branches
White Spaces
Chickens...Home...Roost
Honky Wanna Cracker?
Breaking the Cycle of White Dependence
Membership Has It's Privileges

For you to suggest that because Barack Obama was elected president, our problems are over, and we have achieved parity and equality is preposterous, to say the least. A historic and noteworthy accomplishment, to be sure...but let's not forget, for one minute, how difficult and racially charged was his journey to that office. In fact hate crimes are statistically on the rise, since his inauguration. Explain that. So don't give me that crap about kumbayah, and everything being hunky dory, when the fact that we're having this conversation underscores that everything is "not".
Let me reiterate that my motivation is hardly racist. I have family members who are half-white, and numerous and sundry friends who would laugh at the notion.
In fact, last night I attended my monthly poetry gathering, consisting mainly of a roomful of middle-aged white women, with me and my visiting artist friend being the only black faces in the room. All I got were hugs and praises after my performance, with invitations to reprise. I'm not the problem.

jallman said:

So true, so true. But it's a throwback to that whole victimhood mentality I spoke of earlier. "My life ain't what I think it ought to be so it's got to be da' man's fault. Down wit whitey!!!" Indulging that lowlife sentiment is the problem, not the white people around the poor soul. Although, I have to admit that this sentiment is partially white folks' fault to start with because we implemented policies which enable the victimhood mentality and other policies, such as affirmative action, which enabled the successes of the lowest common denominators in the african american community.

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Here is an example of not one word, but many words offending my sensibilities. The lowest common denominators? My Lord. :shock:

Gwendoline said:

Here is an example of not one word, but many words offending my sensibilities. The lowest common denominators? My Lord. :shock:

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What do you find offensive about that? Affirmative action took away any semblance of reward for achievement and allowed underachievers the same status within the african american community as their ambitious counterparts.

Gwendoline said:

Here is an example of not one word, but many words offending my sensibilities. The lowest common denominators? My Lord. :shock:

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Gwendoline,
Are you surprised? After a series of jaw-dropping posts, I wouldn't put anything past some.
All is heard is "I'm not a racist, but you are, let me count the ways.".

talloulou said:

Context, culture, an environment significantly alter ones sensitivity. If you're young and you hang with a group of friends who commonly and jokingly call each other all manner of names probably you'll pick up the habit as well and have no sensitivity to the words within that environment. However if you've never heard your father ever call your mother the names you and your friends constantly toss out at each other then the day he does it your mouth is gonna fall to the floor! The words loose or gain weight depending on the context and the environment.

Let's say you're a teenage guy and your friends constantly mock each other during sporting events by saying crap like, "You run like a little bitch. " Now let's say a new kid moves in the neighborhood and his friends never did that. The first time he hears it or has it tossed his way he's gonna be more offended than he will be later on when he's so use to it he has no sensitivity to it whatsoever.

I think that's why young black kids can use the N word frequently with each other in a jocular manner. They desensitize each other to it.

However they are NOT desensitized to some white guy coming along and using it. So when that happens the reaction would be changed dramatically.

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I post that i am lesbian and how much power and pain certain words could have over me. It was when i made them my own identity that i took the power out of these harmful words. I had to learn. Now I am 57 I did this long ago. t the time i was coming out we were afraid of these terms as we could be arrested for being lesbian or gay. The terms did have power.

The communities have made these terms their own to disarm them. The N Word in a black neighborhood. If you use it for yourself you take away the sting.

Gwendoline said:

Here is an example of not one word, but many words offending my sensibilities. The lowest common denominators? My Lord. :shock:

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Lowest common denominator? Are you talking about Fox News? :razz:

aaronssongs said:

Gwendoline,
Are you surprised? After a series of jaw-dropping posts, I wouldn't put anything past some.
All is heard is "I'm not a racist, but you are, let me count the ways.".

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That didn't even make any sense.

I never got very far in linguistics in university, but in one of the courses I took we talked about vulgarity. Vulgar words get their power by society being told not to use them because they're bad and offensive. So in theory, if casual use increases then offensive impact will decrease over time.

jallman said:

What do you find offensive about that? Affirmative action took away any semblance of reward for achievement and allowed underachievers the same status within the african american community as their ambitious counterparts.

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What do I find offensive about that? No, nothing... :shock::shock::shock::shock: nada :shock:

Truly, you're a benevolent human being...

Gwendoline said:

What do I find offensive about that? No, nothing... :shock::shock::shock::shock: nada :shock:

Truly, you're a benevolent human being...

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I don't understand what you find offensive about acknowledgment that affirmative action was a big mistake that hurt minorities more than it helped them. All the cutsie little emoticons in the world aren't going to make your argument for you so if you would kindly step up your game and explain your offense like an adult, we might get somewhere.

Inferno said:

I post that i am lesbian and how much power and pain certain words could have over me. It was when i made them my own identity that i took the power out of these harmful words. I had to learn. Now I am 57 I did this long ago. t the time i was coming out we were afraid of these terms as we could be arrested for being lesbian or gay. The terms did have power.

The communities have made these terms their own to disarm them. The N Word in a black neighborhood. If you use it for yourself you take away the sting.

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My uncle's b oyfriend claims he can use the term "fag" because he is one. I still find the term offesive.

Inferno said:

I post that i am lesbian and how much power and pain certain words could have over me. It was when i made them my own identity that i took the power out of these harmful words. I had to learn. Now I am 57 I did this long ago. t the time i was coming out we were afraid of these terms as we could be arrested for being lesbian or gay. The terms did have power.

The communities have made these terms their own to disarm them. The N Word in a black neighborhood. If you use it for yourself you take away the sting.

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Well, you have brought something to bear.
All those using racial pejoratives and words which you feel folks should get and be over....go into the hood and use those words as freely as you do in this forum, in effect, putting your money where your mouth is...do that, and I'll concede. Ah, but we all know that you won't because cojones are in question...and in its' place is a dry socket.

aaronssongs said:

Well, you have brought something to bear.
All those using racial pejoratives and words which you feel folks should get and be over....go into the hood and use those words as freely as you do in this forum, in effect, putting your money where your mouth is...do that, and I'll concede. Ah, but we all know that you won't because cojones are in question...and in its' place is a dry socket.

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I think not going into the "hood" and stirring up a herd of vile, violent beasts is less a question of cajones and more a matter of intelligence.

Inferno said:

I saw the way my reaction gave those words a power over my life.

...

Words hurt and cause pain and have power as long as we allow them too.

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For those that were confused by my earlier posts, this is essentially what I meant saying that it is on us whether we allow words to offend us or anger us or make us sad. That does not mean that the people saying them aren't ignorant, rude, offensive, or mean. What it does mean is that if we let those ignorant, rude, offensive, or mean words have such an affect on us that is because we are ALLOWING it to and we are giving them power over us by doing so.

winston53660 said:

My uncle's b oyfriend claims he can use the term "fag" because he is one. I still find the term offesive.

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Your uncles boyfriend is Mr. Garrison?

jallman said:

What do you find offensive about that? Affirmative action took away any semblance of reward for achievement and allowed underachievers the same status within the african american community as their ambitious counterparts.

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It gave people at the time to achieve a modicum of success in fields that at the time they could not grow in. It helped those that were put down by by discrimination to be made more.

Here is an interesting example. I was applying for University and took the entrance test. This goes back to 1970. My entrance test was in the top 3. The university was giving full pay scholarships to the top five. I was in. Full pay. The Dean called me for a meeting where he told me that I was just a woman and he was moving me down to position 6 because a man would better use the scholarship. I was just a woman he said and I would probably be home married to one of these guys having babies.

That was affirmative action of another kind. It was me getting screwed by the system because I lacked a penis. Don't tell me about the poor males that may have felt some pain. They were never told they were less because they didn't have a vagina.

This happened to blacks in favor of white males. It happened to women in favor of men. Affirmative Action promotes equality.

Zyphlin said:

For those that were confused by my earlier posts, this is essentially what I meant saying that it is on us whether we allow words to offend us or anger us or make us sad. That does not mean that the people saying them aren't ignorant, rude, offensive, or mean. What it does mean is that if we let those ignorant, rude, offensive, or mean words have such an affect on us that is because we are ALLOWING it to and we are giving them power over us by doing so.

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I was 12 in 1964 and i was called a queen and a dyke. It took me years to get over that. In 1964 they could have put me in a mental hospital if people thought I was a lesbian. I was so those words did have a certain power the sting as i took the words for my own identity fell away.