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Originally Posted by justone said:
I cannot believe I have heard a peep, both ironical and erroneous, as usual.
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Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?
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I cannot believe I have heard a peep, both ironical and erroneous, as usual.
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See, this is just another example of your own inability to comprehend the English language. Please show me one instance where I have stated I do not believe in evolution.
In fact, only a total retard would have missed the numerous times that I mentioned that I personally believe in evolution.
And guess what?
You missed it.
Repeatedly.
You know what that means, right?
If not, look five sentences up and see the type of person who could have missed it. Then look in the mirror and say "I am a ________".
Scientist! Right? *looks around*
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No, it is your writing style. :lol:
It is clear and concise and that sure as hell ain't a good thing.
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:doh That explains it! :rofl
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None of what you said is true. What you said is that I was blinded by hatred and then proceeded to go about saying how evolutionists use insult, etc. The irony was that you yourself levied personal insult at me and then bitched that personal insult was a technique of the evolutionists. It made me chuckle.
As for your crap, nothing you said is supported. I have to write a PhD thesis, a talk and poster for DAMOP, and a paper for PRL...sorry if I can't sit around and entertain you to all hours of the night. But nothing you said is proof of god, nor is there any quantitative proof of a god, nor can there be. Gods are by their definition immeasurable. If you wish to believe in one, that's your business. If you wish to believe in creationism, that's your business. I don't care about either of those, in fact I know some very religious people in the Physics department here. Nothing in science confirms or denies the existence of gods; religion and science are two different subjects. So personally believing in gods or creationism is no big thing; personal preference that I don't care about. The only thing I protest is when people try to inject religion into science. But I'm not going to sit here and "debate" with a brick wall, especially those whom wish to deny the measurables and create false claims and run their mouths about stuff they don't know or understand; and that's what you've done. Especially when you tried to take on quantum mechanics and measured physical values. It's bull****, it's not worth my time. If you wish to live in ignorance, it's not my job to correct it. But you refuse to hear argument counter to your own, and instead make **** up and regurgitate tripe that was probably preached to you. You have shown no ability to understand science or what it is that science even seeks to understand. Not only that, but you have demonstrated conscious will to ignore and not learn those things. At that point, the conversation is pointless. It's only you running your mouth about made up things and pretending that what was measured wasn't measured.
Sorry, but the truth is in the data.
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Frauds, charlatans, quacks, and other conmen and deceivers should not be allowed to practice under the cover of false authority, correct?
So you think this is relevant to her abilities to deceive?
So what you're saying is that Jesus was a queer.
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I said many things. You have not replied to any.
You express hatred and I point to it. Hatred is known to blind people’s mind. I hate a number of things, too. How pointing to your hatred is a personal insult? You hate Christians; I hate bacon, and I don’t care weather it is reasonable or not.
If you are busy, say you are busy. If you say ‘crap’, please quote and support your claim. If you refuse to quote and support, make sure you hear me telling you that you are no man, but just a little piece of….
Then you go into long tripe:
So the question begs - instead of taking time to answer YOUR bogus misrepresentations of my statements why did not you go to MY statements and questions themselves and answer, address THEM? http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-38.html#post1058014005
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-39.html#post1058014007 You , completely blinded by your hatred, have found time to spew a bunch of unsupported insults. What else is new about fanatical atheists and evolutionists?
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It is a typical trick of a conman and a charlatan to point to a little woman minding her business and to yell – ‘she is a witch; we, scientists tell you’!
Only the last fool may be deceived by a beautiful blonde. Any time when somebody joins the line you run from the line to take your place after him. I guess you just have to be the last in the line.
If a queer is an envy ugly impotent who hates beautiful blondes and neither a glass of wine nor a Viagra can make him cheer up even a bit.
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Uh...sure...? Famous scientists throughout history have said exactly that. I'm sure you can name a dozen or so.
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I've replied to the point of finding that there is no point in trying to have an intelligent debate about this.
I don't hate Christians, that's the point. That's a lie on your point. Bold faced lie and that's why it's an insult. I've never once expressed hatred towards Christians, I know quite a few. I think what they believe is ok, I have no problem with it. It's just when people try to inject religion into science. That's all. No hatred there at all. That's a lie on your part so you can try to further deflect the argument so you don't have to deal with the truth. Thus it's an insult since you are going to insinuate that my argument is being affected by emotional outburst as if I am unable to control such things. You insulted and lied about me, I point it out.
Crap is the vast majority of what you write. I stopped caring about your arguments when you are going to argue violation of energy conservation or Lamb shift are made up things and that the real answer is god. Fine, you're at your answer and we're done talking because you will not honestly engage in debate, so whatever. It's no skin off my teeth, I don't care if people ignore reality to keep up their own preconceived notions, people do it all the time. But you can't argue with someone like that because they'll make up stuff all the time, and you did.
It's just that what you said is so fantastically wrong that it is not worth my time to try to untangle the biases and bigotries which have lead you to that place. All you can do is call me fanatical and insult me, then you bitch about how the evil evolutionists do nothing but personally insult. Hello! Pot! The Kettle is calling. But you can't even see that, you can't see it as hypocrisy because it's been rationalized in your mind. Somehow your personal insults against me, claiming I am blinded by hatred, that I hate Christians, are somehow not actually insults. But insults I've never made are and that's enough for you to start bitching and crying about it. All that is nothing but bigotry and bias based on my personal belief structure. In the end, it's not about me hating Christians as I don't and never exemplified anything which indicates as such. But rather it seems that there is much more data indicating you are blinded by hatred towards atheists and those who dare to acknowledge evolution. That seems to be the root of the problem. Those in glass houses, you know.
If you choose to grow up and act like an adult, to engage in intellectually honest debate; fine we can do it. But if you're just going to be there and be as stubborn as a mule and attack and insult me; then we're done.
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The truth? He can't handle the truth.
If any of us think we can pull justone's ass out of his head, we're kidding ourselves nearly as much as he is on this topic.
Duke
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As one example you always spread lies about Crusaders and Inquisition and religious fanatics denying Heliocentrism. I quoted you in the posts you keep on refusing to address. Anyone can see that.
As another example you are into the second post consisting of only insults. Anyone can see that.
It is an insult, and it is a very primitive insult, and I predicted it in the very beginning pointing that it was the only way evolutionists were going to debate. I have been proven correct throughout all the debate. Anyone can go back and read. And you make it in the most primitive way, since you are into the 2nd long post of continuing the debate with 863 words up to this point. Since you claimed that my statements were crap but you are into the 2nd post when you cannot quote and support your claim, but only can keep on piling misrepresentation of my statements, mixed with substituting of my statements with yours, mixed with primitive insults I want to assure you that everyone heard who you are
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-49.html#post1058021084
Of course, I had no hope to get anything through to you or Duke, but I remember IC and Tucker nad may be somebody else are listening and THINKING. It feels so good to share a few thoughts with somebody intelligent.
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Of course, I had no hope to get anything through to you or Duke, or Duke, or Duke, but I remember IC and TC and may be somebody else are listening and THINKING. It feels so good to share thoughts with somebody intelligent.
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Actually, I gave it a second thought and I think I may have an explanation. The shore minded fanatics are shore minded fanatics because they cannot understand that if you believe in evolution it does not mean that you do not doubt it and do not put it under hard questioning, that you do not polish and perfect your beliefs on a hard stone, that it does not mean that you wouldn’t be upset, but rather glad to see your belief does not hold water before or when you employ it for carrying your water supply, when a more efficient tool is presented to you for free, that you are in the process of checking your carrying water tools all the time, - like airplanes are checked before each flight.
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Lies, those are lies and nothing more. I point to Crusades and Inquisition only when people try to relate atheism to Communism. I have countless times said that I don't actually hold religion responsible for the sins of man. And what's this "second post consisting of only insults" BS? You're the one that levied insults, not I. And should you get some of what you dish out, well that's just turnabout. Besides, you should be following the ol' rule "treat others as you wish others to treat you." Since you seem to want to do nothing but hurl personal insults at me, it seems reasonable to me that what you truly want is to have insults hurled back at you. So in a way, I'm doing you a favor.
you're welcome.
you are such a raging hypocrite, it's why it's not worth the effort of dealing with you. You bitch bitch bitch about "personal insults" being directed at you and look at this post. You filled it with personal insult. It's all you do. "Oh the evolutionists do blah" and then you turn around and do blah. It's inconceivable that you have blinded yourself to your hypocrisy. That you dwell in anger and hatred against atheist and those who accept evolution so much so that you make arguments that are useless and make no sense. Sorry, that's not an insult; that's the truth. You discount measurement through some flippant philosophy and claim you've done something worthwhile. At that point we're done. Because if we're going to talk about measured result and ideals based on your preconceived notions and bigotry; I'm going with the measured results. That's just the way it is. You are well too angry and well too close minded to have any meaningful debate with. Again, not insult but rather measured reality. The whole of this thread is testament to that.
All you have is insult and obtuse philosophy. So before you start running your mouth again about insults and such, I suggest you take a good hard look in the mirror. Get yourself right before you come after other people. Let he who is without sin....
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Originally Posted by justone said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-49.html#post1058021084
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058021084 (Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?)Originally Posted by justone said:
The correction to the above: now you are into the 3rd post with 1252 words up to this point, yet none addressing MY statements and questions which made you cut and run.
This is the only line I read out. You wouldn’t even realize that I and may be not only I don’t even read in as soon I and may be not only I realize that AGAIN you are not addressing what you are supposed to address and but only repeating yourself.
OK. You lie about Crusades and Inquisition only when you lie about relation between atheism and Communism. The question remains - what is about your lie related to religious fanatics denying Heliocentrism I quoted and addressed and as I quoted and addressed? You up to 1252 words, but not even a peep.
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I've well addressed it. It's also not a lie, BTW. Look at history and see what happened. Sorry if you want to deny measured fact, but religious fanaticism did deny certain findings of science so much so that they used their power of church to dominate and suppress. The point, to which I have pointed out on many occasion, is that religion and science are different subjects and need to be kept separate. I don't care what people's personal beliefs are, people are free to believe as they like. But I don't like when people try to inject religion into science. I have said that MULTIPLE times. Instead of acting all holier-than-thou and looking down upon me and what I write because of the position from where I come, maybe you should try actually reading what I write. You admit that you don't read these posts anyway.
You read one line, dismissed the rest, and went on with your bigoted rant against me. It's not my fault you don't read, so quit trying to blame me. I have come to the point many many many times, religion and science are different subjects. Science will never seek an answer in the form of gods because gods are immeasurable. Science seeks to understand the dynamics of nature, and answering via acts of gods are useless on that front. All this crap you spew against science and evolution and atheists is rooted in a desire to inject religion into science. Theology and Science are different subjects and should be treated as such.
The last part of your bigoted and angry post about my position on the inquisition and your continued lies about what I believe proves my point only more. I don't like about the Crusades or the Inquisition, that's measured reality. You seem to take a lot of issue with measured reality. Those things happened and are well documented. When people incorrectly try to blame the acts of Communist regimes on atheists, I claim then they must accept as religiously motivated the acts of the Crusades, Inquisition, War of the Roses, etc. That's it. You can stop lying and bearing false witness whenever you like now. I really thought maybe that was one of your commandments you weren't supposed to break; but it shows how deep your convictions really are. Abandon the tenants of your religion should you need to rage righteous fury against someone else. Classic.
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No need to read further
The correction to the above: now you are into the 4rd post with 1657 words up to this point, yet none addressing MY statements and questions the ones which made you cut and run and which were made of 1652 words.Originally Posted by justone said:
You could have done a word for a word and have 5 more.
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So again you admit that you refuse to read my posts. You have the gall to lay insult, lie, hyperbole, and distortion against my argument and person without even reading what I post. I've answered your question in full, you refuse to hear the answer because I suspect it doesn't fit with your preconceived notions of what I should be saying. Your problem, but I don't have time for your unintelligent babble and continued dismissal of argument through obtuse philosophy. You keep quoting yourself referring back to two posts you made, those posts are why I stopped responding. Because that's the obtuse philosophy you keep bringing up. You are allowing for complete relativism. Numbers are man made, and subject to mistake. The Lamb shift was a mistake in numbers, but we had to rationalize it somehow so we invented random vacuum fluctuations, etc. That's all BS, sorry; but measured reality wins out against your obtuse and conveniently constructed philosophy. You're basically trying to argue from Descartes' demon at which point the argument becomes meaningless. Either what we experience, see, and measure are real or they are mirages composed of whatever it may be that defy your senses, demons, numbers, infinity, whatever you want to make up. If everything is subjective and relative, no real argument can be had. So I either have to think that maybe there's some evil demon distorting my perception of everything, or that everything I measure and see and interact with is real. I go with measurements being real. You want to disprove the measured reality because it goes against some of your claims, so you have to try to introduce relativism. I don't engage in those arguments since they are pointless. I have said as much many times. I have answered your questions fully and in an absolute stance. I refuse to engage in childish, relativism arguments where we're discussing if our perception of reality is real or not. If you want to run off and wax intellectual with your obtuse philosophy, go ahead. But I'm sitting here with a choice on what to believe; you and your unproven opinions and philosophy, or actual measurement. You're not going to win that one.
If you decide to grow up and have an intellectually honest debate you can. If you wish to continue on your childish tantrums, deflection, and lies; you're free to do so as well. I shall not continue, however, should your decision be the latter.
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The correction to the above: now you are into the 5th post with 2068 words up to this point, yet none addressing MY statements and questions the ones which made you cut and run and which were made of 1652 words.
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I addressed your statements, even in my last post. You continually dodge what I say because you don't want to engage in intellectually honest, adult debate.
We're now done. I have no time for the intellectually weak and constitutionally challenged.
We're now done. I have no time for the intellectually weak and constitutionally challenged.
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I posted detailed consideration of your statements as it is appropriate on DP, I quoted and posted my replies under each quote. You cut and run and never attempted to quote me and reply to MY statements and questions as it is appropriate on DP
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-38.html#post1058014005
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/46932-evolution-did-we-really-evolve-apes-39.html#post1058014007
now you are into the 6th post with 2168 words up to this point, yet none addressing MY statements and questions the ones which made you cut and run and which were made of 1652 words.
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I specifically responded to the WHOLE of that when I said:
"You keep quoting yourself referring back to two posts you made, those posts are why I stopped responding. Because that's the obtuse philosophy you keep bringing up. You are allowing for complete relativism. Numbers are man made, and subject to mistake. The Lamb shift was a mistake in numbers, but we had to rationalize it somehow so we invented random vacuum fluctuations, etc. That's all BS, sorry; but measured reality wins out against your obtuse and conveniently constructed philosophy. You're basically trying to argue from Descartes' demon at which point the argument becomes meaningless. Either what we experience, see, and measure are real or they are mirages composed of whatever it may be that defy your senses, demons, numbers, infinity, whatever you want to make up. If everything is subjective and relative, no real argument can be had. So I either have to think that maybe there's some evil demon distorting my perception of everything, or that everything I measure and see and interact with is real. I go with measurements being real. You want to disprove the measured reality because it goes against some of your claims, so you have to try to introduce relativism. I don't engage in those arguments since they are pointless. I have said as much many times. I have answered your questions fully and in an absolute stance. I refuse to engage in childish, relativism arguments where we're discussing if our perception of reality is real or not. If you want to run off and wax intellectual with your obtuse philosophy, go ahead. But I'm sitting here with a choice on what to believe; you and your unproven opinions and philosophy, or actual measurement. You're not going to win that one."
Already answered. You can quit referring back to those pointless and meaningless quotes of yours when I have already specifically addressed your "arguments" in their full and utterly useless context.
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Since you came back you have been ''responding'' only to YOUR misrepresentations of my statements, not to what I FORMULATED; you have been ''responding'' ONLY with meaningless insults and insinuations. The appropriate way would be – to quote me what I exactly said and to reply to what I exactly said.
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I didn't make the argument that gravity proves evolution, you however made the argument that gravity proves god (God has real world effects which can directly be measured, gravity for an example). Thus I asked what about gravity necessitates a god, you couldn't answer. The answer is, there is nothing inherent to gravity which necessitates a god. At no point did I say gravity necessitates evolution, you however claimed that gravity necessitates god.
Because evolution is a large timescale dynamic captured by the fossil record. Do you wish to dispute the fossil record?
Not at all, you used Descartes demon and I think it's a pointless defense.
Descartes demon
Part of your argument, less you wish to claim ignorance of the English language.
I was referring to infinity. The value used for evaluation particularly for boundary conditions and such. It's well defined.
No. In fact, random vacuum fluctuations explain a great many of measured phenominon including Lamb shifts, zero point energy, etc. They are predicted through quantum mechanics and general relativity. To measure the effects of random vacuum fluctuations took precision experiments, the equipment for which wasn't around in full glory till well after the theory saying these things were possible came out. In fact, at first it was "allowable" but no one said they happened. They are allowed through brief periods of breaking energy conservation, or rather better though of as deriving their energy from the curvature of space. It was said this was allowed, it was said well if this is allowed it will have these affects. When those affects were measured, there was then proof of the dynamic.
Again, you're asking me to choose between believing in you, a man with a obvious agenda and clear bias, or scientists...impartial and experts in fields well unknown by you. Sorry, but you're going to lose that one every time.
Zero point energies, Lamb shift have been well measured. Other effects are continually being demonstrated in new experiments including electron-lattice interactions, electron mass renormalization, and high energy experiments in colliders. Continually refined, continually measured, continually scrutinized. Nothing to date has come up which would indicate that random vacuum fluctuations are as you say they are. Rather, all the data seems to say that the scientists have a good understanding of the phenomenon and all affects that it would cause are being measured and confirmed. So again...looks like the scientists win.
Personal opinion backed by nothing but bias and bigotry. Prove it.
Nothing but garbage. This is personal opinion and hatred thrown at science and progress. You don't understand fully the dynamics you're trying to rally against and can not come up with a coherent and scientific argument against it. Fail.
This proves what? Math for the sake of math can be confusing. But we're not talking of that, we're talking of measurement. Measurement is beyond pretty math and philosophy, measurement is real.
Science hasn't ended with Einstein, it has exploded since then. And all done in proper scientific form. Again, this is what it comes down to. You are a guy with an agenda, you have clear bigotry and bias towards science and progress. You rant and rave about how science is wrong. Science, on the other hand, has measurements (something you have not once presented...I have) and has results, measured. That's reality. You want me to believe your side even though you have offered nothing but semantics, poor philosophy, and unsubstantiated rantings. Einstein is not the end all to science, we have expanded knowledge far beyond what Einstein contributed. You seem sort of the plum pudding sort of fellow; I'm more of the quantum mechanically derived and measured sort of fellow. I'll take what is proven, not the rantings of a man with clear agenda against science.
I am a published physicist, you are not. You're a guy on the internet with a religious agenda to push and you're pissed off because I say keep religion and science separate. That's all this comes down to. You're pissed because you can't demonstrate your points at all, but you want me to accept them as scientific and I refuse. My atoms tell me quantum mechanics works. BECs test the fundamental laws of quantum mechanics to see if they're true or not. My work in AMO is dominated by quantum effects and well explained by them. The dynamics and the theory match up. Nature always has the truth; we just have to be able to listen to what it has to say. Not rant and rave in closed minded bigotry because someone dared say something you don't like. That gets us nowhere, and humanity doesn't sit still. Stagnation is death.
Measured reality is measured reality and nothing you can say detracts from that. You have no measurement to back up your claims, I have well documented measurement to back up mine. From the Lamb Shift to Evolution, it's measured. We know it happened. We know things have changed. You're arguing stagnation, I'm arguing change. The data supports one of us...care to take a guess which one?
No it's not. I've had enough of your flippant philosophy and mindless rants against science and progress. You've backed up nothing you had to say, you refuse to acknowledge measurement, it's completely pointless.