• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 20 43.5%

  • No.

    Votes: 26 56.5%
  • Total voters
    46
EgoffTib said:
The innocent Somali villagers are thieves and murderers? :doh
Click to expand...

If they support theives or murderers or live off the proceeds of theives and murderers, THEY ARE THEIVES AND MURDERERS.
 
Unrein said:
I've never heard such an asinine appeal from ethnocentrism in my life. You seem to think that Somali citizens are living a life similar to people from downtown Harlem or something, like they have a 'choice'.

These civilians are either going to 'harbor' these pirates or die. These communities have no options.
Click to expand...

You know that how?

The only assinine thing here is your tired lack of vision. You defend theives are murderers --- you are as bad as they are.

Kindly save your hippy diatribes for Berkley town hall meetings and tree-hugging ceremonies!
 
EgoffTib said:
Then maybe we should kill all Somalians. If some Somalians become pirates, we could kill them all, thus ridding ourselves of the pirate threat! Brilliant logic! :roll:
Click to expand...

I would be satisfied with bombing the Somali costline until it can no longer be used to lauch water craft.

This applies to the harbors in these cities as well.
 
Vader said:
If they support theives or murderers or live off the proceeds of theives and murderers, THEY ARE THEIVES AND MURDERERS.
Click to expand...
So let me get your foolish logic straight: If I'm poor and I take some money from a man who is a murderer, I am a murderer? Oh God, this is classic!
 
Vader said:
I would be satisfied with bombing the Somali costline until it can no longer be used to lauch water craft.

This applies to the harbors in these cities as well.
Click to expand...
...and I would be satisfied not killing innocent men, women and children. Guess one of us will not be satisfied by the end of this.
 
Vader said:
You know that how?

The only assinine thing here is your tired lack of vision. You defend theives are murderers --- you are as bad as they are.

Kindly save your hippy diatribes for Berkley town hall meetings and tree-hugging ceremonies!
Click to expand...
Ah, so if someone doesn't want innocents to die, you pull out the anti-Liberal rhetoric. Very mature. :roll:
 
Vader said:
Another failure on your part.

You cannot defeat my argument so you're screaming "emotional diatribe".

You fail sir.
Click to expand...
You do not make arguments. You whine like a child and let your emotions overrun you, causing you to say things like:
Vader said:
Shall we call a WAAAAAAAAAMMMBULLLANCE for the pirates and those who provide them safe harbor?

If the pirates cannot launch boats from those ports, THEY CANNOT COMMIT ACTS OF PIRACY.

Stop making excuses for your criminal friends. They took an are godless thieves who can surrender and be punished in a civilized manner OR THEY CAN ALL BE DESTROYED.

Accept it.
Click to expand...

Vader said:
Says you.

You know nothing about warfare or national defense.

Kindly save your hippyish suggestions for Berkley town hall meetings.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Vader said:
You OF ALL PEOPLE are NEVER ENTITLED to tell somebody else to control THEIR citizens.

Your homeland is a sewer of terrorists, pirates, criminals, warlords, and islamic corruption.

You have ZERO business telling Ahmed to control HIS citizens.
Click to expand...

Vader said:
Stop making excuses for theives and murderers.

:shock:
Click to expand...

Vader said:
Cease your latent support for the pirates and those who live off money stolen or extorted from others.
Click to expand...

Wow. Quite an argument you have made there, Champ. :lol:
 
Look, I'm about as liberal as Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. I'm also about as gung-ho as anybody, and I tend to go into "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" mode with a little provocation.

I wouldn't absolutely rule out bombing the coastal towns and villages if it turned out to be a strategic necessity.

HOWEVER, I think we should seek all other reasonable alternatives to the problem FIRST before doing something that drastic. There are so many things we haven't tried yet that would probably work as well or better, like:

Increased warship and helo patrols;
Putting Marines on some merchant vessels, secretly;
Arming merchant vessels;
Letters of Marque and Reprisal, authorizing private contractors to protect merchants using armed small craft or combat teams;
Infiltrating pirate towns with special-ops forces and assassinating any pirates we can ID.

Let's try all that first and see where we're at.

If it gets to the point where we have to "shell" them, I'd support the use of precision-guided munitions targeting known pirate compounds (ID'd and marked by Spec-ops ahead of time) rather than indiscriminate shelling. It would keep casualties among non-combatants to a necessary minimum.

It's an option, ok, but not a preferred one.

G.
 
Last edited:
Moderator's Warning:
Let's try to continue discussing this issue as rational adults, please.
 
I have a better idea. Anyone know a reason why we couldn't use spy satillite technology like the NSA has to keep track of movements and locations of pirates? Have the NSA coordinate with the Navy and intercept pirates who are approaching ships. If they can tell what brand of cigarette your smoking from space surely they could determine who the pirates are by the weapons they carry and where they deploy from.
 
Last edited:
Laila said:
I understand Egypt has problems over the concept of soverignty but keep it down when individual Somalis take it into their own hands or control your citizens.
Click to expand...

I dont thonk that its possible to controll all the "citizens", thats why the word "out laws" is invented .
 
Vader said:
You OF ALL PEOPLE are NEVER ENTITLED to tell somebody else to control THEIR citizens.

Your homeland is a sewer of terrorists, pirates, criminals, warlords, and islamic corruption.

You have ZERO business telling Ahmed to control HIS citizens.
Click to expand...

Easy dude :lol:
Its ok
 
SgtRock said:
I have a better idea. Anyone know a reason why we couldn't use spy satillite technology like the NSA has to keep track of movements and locations of pirates? Have the NSA coordinate with the Navy and intercept pirates who are approaching ships. If they can tell what brand of cigarette your smoking from space surely they could determine who the pirates are by the weapons they carry and where they deploy from.
Click to expand...

Im not sure Sgt. let me give it some thought.
 
Last edited:
SgtRock said:
I have a better idea. Anyone know a reason why we couldn't use spy satillite technology like the NSA has to keep track of movements and locations of pirates? Have the NSA coordinate with the Navy and intercept pirates who are approaching ships. If they can tell what brand of cigarette your smoking from space surely they could determine who the pirates are by the weapons they carry and where they deploy from.
Click to expand...


Ok SgtRock I have given it some thought. I do not see any reason why this would not work since we allready have the spy satillites in orbit. If we could get the NSA to coordinate with the US Navy and the Navy to coordinate with the other Navies in the area.

Sgt, don't you think this is allready happening? And if so why is it not effective?
 
Last edited:
SgtRock said:
Ok SgtRock I have given it some thought. I do not see any reason why this would not work since we allready have the spy satillites in orbit. If we could get the NSA to coordinate with the US Navy and the Navy to coordinate with the other Navies in the area.

Sgt, don't think this is allready happening? And if so why is it not effective?
Click to expand...

I understand that the area being patroled is over 1 million sq. mi. Maybe the problem is to few ships to cover the area effevtively. Still Im sure the Obama can convince our allies to do more just like he convinced them to send more troops to Afghanistan. Oh wait, he wasn't successful at that was he. I guess he's finding out that things don't allways work out the way you want them to in the real world. Anyway Im not sure that the NSA or other foreign agencies are monitering the situation. If they were surely they could spot these pirates, couldn't they Sgt?
 
SgtRock said:
I understand that the area being patroled is over 1 million sq. mi. Maybe the problem is to few ships to cover the area effevtively. Still Im sure the Obama can convince our allies to do more just like he convinced them to send more troops to Afghanistan. Oh wait, he wasn't successful at that was he. I guess he's finding out that things don't allways work out the way you want them to in the real world. Anyway Im not sure that the NSA or other foreign agencies are monitering the situation. If they were surely they could spot these pirates, couldn't they Sgt?
Click to expand...

You would think so. We have had the technology for decades now certainly it has become more advanced. I'll bet they could launch some drones to take out these pirates as they approach ships.
 
Last edited:
SgtRock said:
You would think so. We had the technology for decades now certainly it has become more advanced. I'll bet they could launch some drones to take out these pirates as they approach ships.
Click to expand...

Hey I like the Idea of using drones to take out these pirates. But I am pretty sure that the Navy only uses Global Hawk recon drones. They do not have the armed drones yet. The Army and Airforce have armed drones they could deploy them from carriers. Speaking of carriers, maybe thats the solution. A carrier in the area could fly sorties against these pirates with the intel they obtain from the NSA. They could send out reconnissance drones to verify the intel. This way we could avoid the mess of collateral damage and concentrate our efforts on the pirates themselfs.
 
Last edited:
SgtRock said:
Hey I like the Idea of using drones to take out these pirates. But I am pretty sure that the Navy only uses Global Hawk recon drones. They do not have the armed drones yet. The Army and Airforce have armed drones they could deploy them from carriers. Speaking of carriers, maybe thats the solution. A carrier in the area could fly sorties against these pirates with the intel they obtain from the NSA. This way we could avoid the mess of collateral damage and concentrate our efforts on the pirates themselfs.
Click to expand...

Damn Sgt your one smart feller. Everything you have suggested makes so much sense. But Im sure that somehow politics would get in the way of implementing an operation like that. Oh well, I guess well end up doing something stupid like bombing Somoli fishing villages.
 
The last six posts are the best discussion on the subject so far. ;)
 
EgoffTib said:
...and I would be satisfied not killing innocent men, women and children. Guess one of us will not be satisfied by the end of this.
Click to expand...

Again ....

You know nothing about defense, military strategy, or how to end an armed conflict with a bunch of murderous asshats.

Therefore, you are NOT in a position to state what IS and IS NOT a good idea.

The Somalis MUST BE TAUGHT to leave cargo vessels alone. This education, while laden with a hefty price, is necessary.

The world cannot be allowed to suffer because a collection of murderous ****bags insists on harassing commercial shipping traffic.

This same logic was what caused an armed conflict with Germany during the early 1930s. German U-boats attacked and sank shipping traffic as well as the HMS Lucitania. The result of this action was WAR.

Again ... the Germans continued their activities until the allies but a foot up their asses.

The same stance MUST be taken with the somali ****bags.

If you cannot understand this, TOO DAMN BAD.
 
Vader said:
This same logic was what caused an armed conflict with Germany during the early 1930s. German U-boats attacked and sank shipping traffic as well as the HMS Lucitania. The result of this action was WAR.

Again ... the Germans continued their activities until the allies but a foot up their asses.
Click to expand...
Um....RMS Lusitania was sunk by a German submarine on May 1, 1915.

Germany did not engage in commerce raiding again until 1939, after the start of WWII.
 
celticlord said:
Bloody hell, punish the villagers first. The villagers are the ones getting the benefit of the pirates' ill gotten gains but don't even have the balls to be doing the looting themselves.

If you give safe haven for pirate scum you should die like pirate scum--grotesquely and horribly.
Click to expand...

Friend,

One might consider this first. When calling for the random death of 'villagers' one might try placing themselves with becoming a target by such 'shelling' if circumstances in life at birth had allowed one to be a common 'villager' in Somalia instead of what and where one is today. One's views about being randomly shelled by a larger military force sitting off shore might not set too well when hearing shells screeching in on top of one's family. Sometimes we all should reverse roles and put ourselves in other's shoes when wishing random death to others. Just saying.

;)
 
OutoftheBox said:
Friend,

One might consider this first. When calling for the random death of 'villagers' one might try placing themselves with becoming a target by such 'shelling' if circumstances in life at birth had allowed one to be a common 'villager' in Somalia instead of what and where one is today. One's views about being randomly shelled by a larger military force sitting off shore might not set too well when hearing shells screeching in on top of one's family. Sometimes we all should reverse roles and put ourselves in other's shoes when wishing random death to others. Just saying.
Click to expand...

Friend, I can't stand in anybody shoes but my own. Nor can anyone else, for that matter. That fortune-cookie philosophy doesn't do a damn thing in the real world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom