• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 20 43.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 56.5%

  • Total voters
    46
Friend, I can't stand in anybody shoes but my own. Nor can anyone else, for that matter. That fortune-cookie philosophy doesn't do a damn thing in the real world.

Actually you got it backwards and it is all that truly matters.
 
Are those "really bad" neighborhoods conspiring to aid and abet pirates?

No? Didn't think so.....NEXT!

Have you ever heard of 'No Snitching'? Just saying. Your comment somehow implies that they have an alternative to not helping the pirates in a country as lawless as Somalia. It's kind of like retarded cops who think that if people in ghettos help the cops by snitching that these people will somehow be immune to the fact that still live in a ****ing ghetto with the criminals they're snitching on. It's an argument grounded in naivety at best and complete ignorance at worst.
 
Last edited:
Didn't quite understand that. Could you clarify please?

Philosophy and putting yourself (or honestly trying to) in someone's shoes and trying to understand the world is important and needs to be done maybe would have been better to say.
 
Philosophy and putting yourself (or honestly trying to) in someone's shoes and trying to understand the world is important and needs to be done maybe would have been better to say.
Philosophy begins with the realization that one can never put oneself in another's shoes, and it is morally dishonest to pretend to so do.
 
Philosophy begins with the realization that one can never put oneself in another's shoes, and it is morally dishonest to pretend to so do.

Ok then. Maybe life would be better if you always lived with the Berlin Wall inside your head.

Look at the cute wittle bitty pirates!

[ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1240174112]LiveLeak.com - Stronghold Of Somali Pirates.[/ame]
 
Anyone care to answer the question I posed in post #140? , please. Damn its getting pretty damn lonely around here. So lonely Im having conversations with my ****ing self.
 
Why couldn't NATO forces simply enact a blockade of those ports which are known to be pirate strongholds? Keeping the pirates from leaving port might help to stop many of the attacks on ships.

During WWII, merchant ships had large caliber machine guns and such mounted on the decks to thwart attacks from German U-Boats and other enemy vessels. Something like this may have to be done again.

Another idea...take some of our old, mothballed ships out of dry-dock, refurbish them with enough basic, modern weapons to thwart pirate attacks, place small crews of naval soldiers (or even mercenaries) on board these ships, and allow these ships to patrol up and down the Somali coast, close to shore....
 
Another idea...take some of our old, mothballed ships out of dry-dock, refurbish them with enough basic, modern weapons to thwart pirate attacks, place small crews of naval soldiers (or even mercenaries) on board these ships, and allow these ships to patrol up and down the Somali coast, close to shore....

And they would second as really good bait to draw out those who truly hate America who think they have an almost even match in odds. But with backup they are sure to die.
 
Anyone care to answer the question I posed in post #140? , please. Damn its getting pretty damn lonely around here. So lonely Im having conversations with my ****ing self.

bump.........
 
Well, Sarge, you kinda come to class a lil' bit late there ol' buddy.

See post #71. :mrgreen:

Perhaps strategic placement of radar/movement activated GPS systems to early identify the scurge pirates once they are more than a few miles offshore, coupled with onboard armed security, remote controlled drones capable of fire power, convoy style/wagon train shipping methods, might help.

Obviously, the area is too vast to spot each and every little piss-ant boat these sea terrorists can launch. But it might be possible to track and identify their movements from space once the boat moves further offshore. Once sighted, marked, and identified an armed drone could be dispached to do recon. If it is determined to be an enemy threat, it can be eliminated before it reaches the ship. It takes quite a while to get 200-300 miles offshore in a small craft. The pirate "mother crafts" that harbor these attack boats should be easy enough to identify. Perhaps mandate that all boats in the area, more than 50 miles offshore emit an internatinal friend or foe frequency. Those pirate boats not emitting this frequency are legal targets for demise.

If the pirates get past this outer perimeter of defence, onboard radar can spot them a few miles out, giving the convoy's armed helicopters time to get in the air and engage. If, in a worst case scenerio, the pirates actually get within firing distance of the ship, the onboard security from the collective convoy can set-up for a real nice turkey-shoot.

Great minds must think alike, huh? ;)
 
Again ....

You know nothing about defense, military strategy, or how to end an armed conflict with a bunch of murderous asshats.

Therefore, you are NOT in a position to state what IS and IS NOT a good idea.

The Somalis MUST BE TAUGHT to leave cargo vessels alone. This education, while laden with a hefty price, is necessary.

The world cannot be allowed to suffer because a collection of murderous ****bags insists on harassing commercial shipping traffic.

This same logic was what caused an armed conflict with Germany during the early 1930s. German U-boats attacked and sank shipping traffic as well as the HMS Lucitania. The result of this action was WAR.

Again ... the Germans continued their activities until the allies but a foot up their asses.

The same stance MUST be taken with the somali ****bags.

If you cannot understand this, TOO DAMN BAD.

Okay, pal. :lamo
 
Um....RMS Lusitania was sunk by a German submarine on May 1, 1915.

Germany did not engage in commerce raiding again until 1939, after the start of WWII.

1.) World War II started in 1940 --- NOT 1939.

2.) Thank you for the information on the Lucitania. I honestly thought it sailed under the English flag.
 
1.) World War II started in 1940 --- NOT 1939.
World War II is generally held to have started on September 1, 1939, when Germany under Adolf Hitler invaded Poland. Arguably, however, World War II could be dated to the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, which took place July 7-9, 1937, and marked the beginning of all-out war between Japan and China.

In either case, World War II was in full vigor by 1940.

2.) Thank you for the information on the Lucitania. I honestly thought it sailed under the English flag.

It did. RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship, and was generally used with ships of the Cunard line.
 
Again ....

You know nothing about defense, military strategy, or how to end an armed conflict with a bunch of murderous asshats.

Therefore, you are NOT in a position to state what IS and IS NOT a good idea.

The Somalis MUST BE TAUGHT to leave cargo vessels alone. This education, while laden with a hefty price, is necessary.

The world cannot be allowed to suffer because a collection of murderous ****bags insists on harassing commercial shipping traffic.

This same logic was what caused an armed conflict with Germany during the early 1930s. German U-boats attacked and sank shipping traffic as well as the HMS Lucitania. The result of this action was WAR.

Again ... the Germans continued their activities until the allies but a foot up their asses.

The same stance MUST be taken with the somali ****bags.

If you cannot understand this, TOO DAMN BAD.

Germany colanization of East Europe was totally evil, while the rest of europes colanization of Africa, Asia and South America was totally justified.

You got your facts wrong about Lusitania. In a well documented conversation between Colonel House, Wilson's adviser and Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign Secretary of England regarding how to get America into the war, Grey inquired:

“What will American do if germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?”

House responded:

“I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into war.”

Soon after this was said, the Lusitania was sent into German waters and sunk by German U-boats. We did not teach Germany anything, the destruction of the german empire in both the world wars is what allowed America to become what it is today.

It was better for our bottom line to keep Germany from gobbling up Russia for itself. England, France and America could not compete with a Germany that large. We were stopping them from becoming the III roman empire, which Hitler was trying to make come true.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome]Third Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The western europeans were afraid of this third rome, and they could not allow the third empire of Moscow to be taken by Germany.

0415152054.gif
 
World War II is generally held to have started on September 1, 1939, when Germany under Adolf Hitler invaded Poland. Arguably, however, World War II could be dated to the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, which took place July 7-9, 1937, and marked the beginning of all-out war between Japan and China.

In either case, World War II was in full vigor by 1940.

My bad. I was incorrect here and I admit that.
 
World War II is generally held to have started on September 1, 1939, when Germany under Adolf Hitler invaded Poland. Arguably, however, World War II could be dated to the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, which took place July 7-9, 1937, and marked the beginning of all-out war between Japan and China.

In either case, World War II was in full vigor by 1940.



It did. RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship, and was generally used with ships of the Cunard line.

You're pretty smart for a HouSTONian. :mrgreen:

Old school northeast side representin' here! Smiley High class of '75! (I DID say old school, ya know. :3oops: )
 
People usually get the governent and conditions they deserve.
I do not believe that Africa and Latin America have languished in horrific poverty for centuries simply because they're all terrible people who deserve it. Rather, the conditions of poverty, lack of education, lack of equal rights etc, were generally imposed and institutionalized from without. And although classical colonialism may be over, such impositions always perpetuate more ugliness. Again, as I said, none of us here can say that (having known only violence and poverty our entire lives) we would not resort to criminal activity if it was the only means to feed ourselves and our families.
I doubt that the Somali people are genetically predisposed to evil, or that they simply all enjoy the pirate lifestyle. Rather, they find themselves born into inhuman conditions of poverty and violence with no real options. If we want to end the problem of piracy, we will have to first end inhuman conditions of poverty.
Didn't the US try to help with the Somali poverty problem back in the 90s? I think, for their trouble, they had soldiers drug through the street while those poor folks cheered.
I didn't say it'd be easy.
 
Shelling? no

Take it over and build strip malls.
Takes about 30 years like any other quick social change.
 
I do not believe that Africa and Latin America have languished in horrific poverty for centuries simply because they're all terrible people who deserve it. Rather, the conditions of poverty, lack of education, lack of equal rights etc, were generally imposed and institutionalized from without. And although classical colonialism may be over, such impositions always perpetuate more ugliness. Again, as I said, none of us here can say that (having known only violence and poverty our entire lives) we would not resort to criminal activity if it was the only means to feed ourselves and our families.
I doubt that the Somali people are genetically predisposed to evil, or that they simply all enjoy the pirate lifestyle. Rather, they find themselves born into inhuman conditions of poverty and violence with no real options. If we want to end the problem of piracy, we will have to first end inhuman conditions of poverty.

I didn't say it'd be easy.



Its from within and without.


They are loaned tons of money from without to buildup the country and the local corrupt governments take that money and use it elsewhere. The people are taxed into poverty, poisoned, and sold up the river (by their own 2 warlords in this specific case) in order to pay that debt. It is a vicious cycle.
 
Back
Top Bottom