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People: Dumb?

Are people, taken as a whole, unintelligent?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 60.7%

  • No

    Votes: 9 32.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Total voters
    28
RightinNYC said:
If this turns into an allegory about socialism I swear to god im going to flip my ****
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That was originally the idea, until I realized how many conservatives (like you) said yes.

I cringe whenever I hear people saying how dumb people are. The only logical conclusion that so many people refuse to admit from that mindset is that people are too stupid to make the best obvious choice, and need to be steered by an outside force to do so. If people are dumb, what's to stop them from being taken advantage of from the smart? (At this moment, you may pause to flip your ****)

The other logical conclusion from saying that people are dumb is that you are smarter than all of them. As it happens, elitism is my #1 least favorite behavior. Not to offend anyone here, there's just no way to get around that.
 
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When we say people "are dumb", we are comparing them to another species or something else, something that indicate that people are as a matter of fact on a general scale, are "dumb". If i say Dav, your stupid, im saying so in relation to either my general level of intelligence or people in general. So when one says "are humans dumb", we have to ask first "compared to who, or what?". We cannot make an assumption that something is dumb if we cannot compare it to something that is more intelligent that doesnt exist. Because if we are the most advanced species on this planet, then we are very smart.

A rat is dumb. When somebody says that, we conciously think on a general scale compared to other animals. When we say a dolphin is clever, again we conciously compare it to general intelligence amongst species of animals, and dolphins are more advanced then most animals. So what the hell could possibly lead us to the assumption people are dumb?
 
kaya'08 said:
When we say people "are dumb", we are comparing them to another species or something else, something that indicate that people are as a matter of fact on a general scale, are "dumb". If i say Dav, your stupid, im saying so in relation to either my general level of intelligence or people in general. So when one says "are humans dumb", we have to ask first "compared to who, or what?". We cannot make an assumption that something is dumb if we cannot compare it to something that is more intelligent that doesnt exist. Because if we are the most advanced species on this planet, then we are very smart.

A rat is dumb. When somebody says that, we conciously think on a general scale compared to other animals. When we say a dolphin is clever, again we conciously compare it to general intelligence amongst species of animals, and dolphins are more advanced then most animals. So what the hell could possibly lead us to the assumption people are dumb?
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Good point, and good question, but my main problem is I hear people say it all the time. George Carlin, for example. So what I was basically asking is whether you are of the mindset to complain about how dumb people are or not. I did, I admit, have trouble framing the question, for the reasons you just gave.
 
Dav said:
Good point, and good question, but my main problem is I hear people say it all the time. George Carlin, for example. So what I was basically asking is whether you are of the mindset to complain about how dumb people are or not. I did, I admit, have trouble framing the question, for the reasons you just gave.
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George Carlin is a comedian and his work doesnt neccessarily represent his own views, not that it matters anyway. To say people are stupid doesnt neccessarily mean that person thinks he is therefore smarter, but also agrees that he himself as a person is stupid. At least that would be the logical thing to think unless you exclude yourself as a "person".
 
Everyone's an idiot. Some of us are just smart enough to realize we are idiots.
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You mean smarter. Otherwise we'd be all smart for realizing everybody is stupid :)
 
kaya'08 said:
You mean smarter. Otherwise we'd be all smart for realizing everybody is stupid :)
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In the context of what I was saying, smart enough =/= smart.

Like how a dog is smart enough to not **** in it's food. That doesn't mean the dog is actually smart.
 
"All the world is dumb but me and thee, and I've been wondering about thee...."
 
kaya'08 said:
George Carlin is a comedian and his work doesnt neccessarily represent his own views, not that it matters anyway. To say people are stupid doesnt neccessarily mean that person thinks he is therefore smarter, but also agrees that he himself as a person is stupid. At least that would be the logical thing to think unless you exclude yourself as a "person".
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I think it's a safe bet to say that most people consider themselves smarter than they actually are.

For instance, I can still remember the day in HS, many years ago, that our SAT scores were delivered. There were quite a few of my classmates in near hysterics that their scores were 'too low.' I can't recall a single student complaining that their score was 'too high.' Not one.

:rofl
 
If you think people as a whole are stupid, try talking to only bits and pieces of them.
 
It depends. Certain people can be quite intelligent when it comes to one thing and insanely stupid when it comes to another. Politically speaking (and I believe that's what you're getting at), I would say absolutely people are dumb, dumb as a sack of stones.

Don't believe me? Try this; ask one of your friends to explain the difference between a representative democracy and a direct democracy. Or ask them to explain the difference between socialism and capitalism. Or ask them to name and explain the purpose of at least three Amendments in the US Constitution. Or ask them almost anything about politics or economics and see what they say.

Now, most people will come out and cry and whine about how insensitive I'm being but this misses the point. For instance, if I said most Americans were ignorant as sin when it comes to astronomy, would anyone think twice or contend otherwise? Obviously not, the only difference is Americans are SUPPOSED to be well-versed in civics.

That's why it strikes such a nerve, because, as Americans, we are obligated to be engaged in our republic, because the strength of a democracy lies within the hearts and minds of the people. Sadly, our hearts and our heads are getting softer while our republic grows weaker. I'll keep saying it until the cornerstone of liberty crumbles beneath the weight of our collective ignorance...bread and circuses.
 
Dav said:
That was originally the idea, until I realized how many conservatives (like you) said yes.

I cringe whenever I hear people saying how dumb people are. The only logical conclusion that so many people refuse to admit from that mindset is that people are too stupid to make the best obvious choice, and need to be steered by an outside force to do so.
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Or that they should be allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law, but we shouldn't overly burden the smarts to take care of the dumbs. If that means that we have to have some paternalistic laws in order to prevent the dumbs from getting so screwed that the rest of the country has to take care of them, then that's fine.

If people are dumb, what's to stop them from being taken advantage of from the smart?
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Uh...very little. Have you SEEN the commercials for the SHAMWOW?

Exploitation of the masses by the smarts is a proud American tradition.

The other logical conclusion from saying that people are dumb is that you are smarter than all of them.
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No, not really. I'm just smart enough to know that I don't know dick.

As it happens, elitism is my #1 least favorite behavior. Not to offend anyone here, there's just no way to get around that.
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There's a difference between "elitism" and a recognition that most people are really not very bright.
 
Ethereal said:
Don't believe me? Try this; ask one of your friends to explain the difference between a representative democracy and a direct democracy. Or ask them to explain the difference between socialism and capitalism. Or ask them to name and explain the purpose of at least three Amendments in the US Constitution. Or ask them almost anything about politics or economics and see what they say.
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Damn. You could ask those same questions of most of our recent presidential candidates and they wouldn't be able to give coherent answers.

:rofl
 
Dav said:
That was originally the idea, until I realized how many conservatives (like you) said yes.

I cringe whenever I hear people saying how dumb people are. The only logical conclusion that so many people refuse to admit from that mindset is that people are too stupid to make the best obvious choice, and need to be steered by an outside force to do so. If people are dumb, what's to stop them from being taken advantage of from the smart? (At this moment, you may pause to flip your ****)

The other logical conclusion from saying that people are dumb is that you are smarter than all of them. As it happens, elitism is my #1 least favorite behavior. Not to offend anyone here, there's just no way to get around that.
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The ruthless, regardless of whether they are smart or dumb, are the one's who take advantage of people, not just the smart.

It doesn't matter what political system is in place, the most ruthless and conniving bastards on the planet will ALWAYS invariably, become the ones in charge. They will be JUST as dumb/smart as the rest of us ****heads.

Intelligence doesn't mean desire for power. Einstein wasn't taking advantage of people, and Fidel Castro is not particularly smart.

So, the fact that the majority of people are dumb means nothing in respects to "protecting" them. There will, proportionally, be just as many dumb-****s in power as there are dumb-****s being taken advantage of.

CEO's? Politicians? Just as dumb as the rest of us.

They have a different quality that places them in their positions, and it isn't raw intelligence. They are ruthless in their pursuit of power. They are cunning, charismatic and ruthless. They use the system in place to put them into positions of power. The personality type doesn't give a rat's ass what system is in place. Every system will always have a power hierarchy that will always favor those with the will, drive and determination to stomp the skulls of those beneath them to gain power.

No matter what system is in place, passive dumb-****s will be taken advantage of, and passive smart people will be taken advantage of, too.

It's just the way things work. Because for every 10 passive dumb-****s, there is a ruthless dumb-****. The ruthless dumb-**** will always rule over the passive dumb-****s.

:mrgreen:
 
Tucker Case said:
The ruthless, regardless of whether they are smart or dumb, are the one's who take advantage of people, not just the smart.

It doesn't matter what political system is in place, the most ruthless and conniving bastards on the planet will ALWAYS invariably, become the ones in charge. They will be JUST as dumb/smart as the rest of us ****heads.

Intelligence doesn't mean desire for power. Einstein wasn't taking advantage of people, and Fidel Castro is not particularly smart.

So, the fact that the majority of people are dumb means nothing in respects to "protecting" them. There will, proportionally, be just as many dumb-****s in power as there are dumb-****s being taken advantage of.

CEO's? Politicians? Just as dumb as the rest of us.

They have a different quality that places them in their positions, and it isn't raw intelligence. They are ruthless in their pursuit of power. They are cunning, charismatic and ruthless. They use the system in place to put them into positions of power. The personality type doesn't give a rat's ass what system is in place. Every system will always have a power hierarchy that will always favor those with the will, drive and determination to stomp the skulls of those beneath them to gain power.

No matter what system is in place, passive dumb-****s will be taken advantage of, and passive smart people will be taken advantage of, too.

It's just the way things work. Because for every 10 passive dumb-****s, there is a ruthless dumb-****. The ruthless dumb-**** will always rule over the passive dumb-****s.

:mrgreen:
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So where would you classify Hitler in all this, then? The smart that took advantage of the dumb****s (ie and no offence, the german society pre and during the war)?
 
kaya'08 said:
So where would you classify Hitler in all this, then? The smart that took advantage of the dumb****s (ie and no offence, the german society pre and during the war)?
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He was ruthless, charismatic, cunning, and determined, but he wasn't all that smart.
 
Dav said:
Is the average human being a dolt, or something close to it?
This does have a point to it, just bear with me. For now keep in mind I am talking about permanent conditions, not something like the political landscape.
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That all people have limited reason and especially that they can't comprehend most of the intricacies of human social organisation needs to be remembered but I wouldn't say they were "stupid".

A lot of problems spring from thinking individuals and particularly a centralised elite can greatly understand and qucikly and easily change major sections of society.

In the end the individual faculties are quite limited and this needs to be remembered in any decent understanding of man and society.
 
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Dav said:
That was originally the idea, until I realized how many conservatives (like you) said yes.

I cringe whenever I hear people saying how dumb people are. The only logical conclusion that so many people refuse to admit from that mindset is that people are too stupid to make the best obvious choice, and need to be steered by an outside force to do so. If people are dumb, what's to stop them from being taken advantage of from the smart? (At this moment, you may pause to flip your ****)
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No. That's not a logical conclusion from the fact that most people aren't all that bright. Your conclusion is based on the assumption the someone else cares enough about them to want to guide them, or that they're being guided for the ulterior motives of the guide dog.

When I say people are fools, I'm not stating any concern for their wellbeing or any desire to hold their filthy little hands.


Dav said:
The other logical conclusion from saying that people are dumb is that you are smarter than all of them. As it happens, elitism is my #1 least favorite behavior. Not to offend anyone here, there's just no way to get around that.
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Chances are, I am smarter than they are.

That's not "elitism", that's the conlcusion of objective measurements.

It's not bragging when it's true.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It makes sense doesn't it.

BTW Welcome Back, how was school? :2wave:
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I'm still in the middle of a lot of Uni work. I just thought I'd come back for a few days.

Good to see you again.

Interesting to see the board has changed its format slightly.
 
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