Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

Jerry · Mar 11, 2009

bilbus said:
Currently 40% of Americans pay no income tax, should these financial failures be permited to influence the country?

Also should people on government assistence be permited to vote?

I understand the "right" to vote can not be removed ... but what if?

You would have to fire half of Congress and Obama’s entire administration.

I like it :mrgreen:

Scarecrow Akhbar · Mar 11, 2009

Alex said:
We tried making the voting age 21 and it did not work. It was not fair to the people who were being drafted in a war they had no say in. Hence the Twenty-Sixth Amendment. Should a draft be limited to people who pay income tax?

Drafts shouldn't exist.

People who don't perform military service are lower than annelid worms and shouldn't be allowed to vote in any circumstances whatsoever.

Alex said:
As far as limiting voting to income taxpayers, what about all the other issues that effect everyone? For example, what about war? That issue affects every citizen, wether they are an income taxpayer or not, they should be allowed to voice their opinion on it by way of voting.

If people don't earn the money to pay the bills, they shouldn't be allowed to vote on what's purchased.

If they want to vote on other matters, then they have that much more incentive to get off their lazy asses and work.

Alex said:
Also, what about all the other taxes? Income tax is not the only one. There is sales tax, production tax, import tax, capital gains tax, estate tax, death tax, etc. Everyone in this country pays tax one way or another so we all have a right to vote in order to voice our ideas on those taxes.

All right.

Make it so that people that recieve money from the government who are not also uniformed members of the armed services cannot vote.

Vader · Mar 11, 2009

What happens next if this happens?

Do we limit voting rights to men over 21?

This is an evolutionary step backwards.

jallman · Mar 11, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Drafts shouldn't exist.

People who don't perform military service are lower than annelid worms and shouldn't be allowed to vote in any circumstances whatsoever.

I tend to think the same thing of people who use inflammatory hyperboles with no sound logice behind them when discussing political issues. :shrug:

If people don't earn the money to pay the bills, they shouldn't be allowed to vote on what's purchased.

If they want to vote on other matters, then they have that much more incentive to get off their lazy asses and work.

:shock: I am learning that your grasp of reality is very tenuous at best. There are disabled people, students, volunteers, etc who all contribute to the well-being of this country and deserve a voice in the government. "We the People" not "We the high income earners".

And before you say it, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.

All right.

Make it so that people that recieve money from the government who are not also uniformed members of the armed services cannot vote.

No-can-do. I don't find disenfranchisement of the disabled, the elderly, and students to be something I am comfortable with. You, sir, need a civics class or two.

Kandahar · Mar 11, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Drafts shouldn't exist.

People who don't perform military service are lower than annelid worms and shouldn't be allowed to vote in any circumstances whatsoever.

There you go again. Proving that you are the "embodiment of reason" as you claim. Carry on trolling now.

sazerac · Mar 11, 2009

But this is going way too far! :shock: Clearly a political ploy for votes.!

incarcerated-felons.[/B]aspx]Hawaii State Senate approves voting by incarcerated felons > Hawaii Free Press > Articles Main

Should Hawaii’s incarcerated felons vote? Sen. Will Espero, D-Ewa, thinks so and nearly all of his Senate colleagues backed the idea with their vote on the third reading of SB 619, SD 2 during yesterday’s crossover.

Espero acknowledged that the bill is controversial and will have difficulty passing the House, but he defended the idea saying it will help felons turn their life around. Most all of the 6,000 people in Hawaii’s prisons are serving sentences of 10 years or less, Espero noted, emphasizing they need the opportunity to become more socially responsible before they are released back into the community.

Slom maintained that incarcerated felons lost their rights when violated civil rights of others and broke the law. He also noted that in Hawaii, lawmakers continue to pay more attention and concern for the perpetrators of crime rather than the victims.

Jerry · Mar 11, 2009

Vader said:
What happens next if this happens?

Do we limit voting rights to men over 21?

This is an evolutionary step backwards.

Limit voting rights to gun owners, imo.

If you're not going to stand ready to difend this country from forign invasion then why should have a say in anything?

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways · Mar 11, 2009

Harry Guerrilla said:
I second that.

This is the face of the new generation. Its worse than baby boomers.

You know, it hurts me when people say things like this. The media never portrays kids well, and we're no worse - maybe better, bertainly better-informed - than our parents were at our age. We're also much more enviro-minded and supportive of equality, the first generation that grew up with general acceptance of homosexuals, for example. If anyone's going to fix the problems you guys (not to generalize; your generation) made, it will be us.

Scarecrow Akhbar · Mar 11, 2009

jallman said:
I tend to think the same thing of people who use inflammatory hyperboles with no sound logice behind them when discussing political issues. :shrug:

I don't like Democrats either.

Unlike you, I don't support their positions.

Just because YOU can't win an argument doesn't mean the other guy isn't using sound logic.

jallman said:
:shock: I am learning that your grasp of reality is very tenuous at best. There are disabled people, students, volunteers, etc who all contribute to the well-being of this country and deserve a voice in the government. "We the People" not "We the high income earners".

Well, let's take 'em one at a time.

Students? If they knew ****, they'd be done going to school....unless they're military vets. Since they don't know ****, they don't need to vote.

Disabled people...if they can't earn money, they've got bigger problems than getting to the polls....and if they're not earning enough to pay income taxes....no, they shouldn't have a vote. I'm easy. Just because they're crippled doesn't mean they should get anything for free.

I'm also blunt.

That means I don't have a pointy head, got it?

Volunteering is nice. Why should someone who makes a choice to "volunteer", and thereby forego earning an income that can be taxed, get benefits the people that earn the incomes and pay the taxes get...ie, voting for the members of congress who decide how the tax dollars are spent? It's not the volunteers tax dollars, right?

So, if they want a "voice in government", how about if the drop the feel good stuff and get an honest job, instead?

jallman said:
No-can-do. I don't find disenfranchisement of the disabled, the elderly, and students to be something I am comfortable with. You, sir, need a civics class or two.

You don't have to be comfortable with it.

You just have to accept the fact that it's morally wrong for people who don't earn the money to have a say in how it's spent.

There's really no getting around that point.

If they haven't paid, they shouldn't expect to play.

And if that means the people who do pay decide that the people who don't vote don't have unconstitutional entitlements to their money, that's only fair. Socialism is, after all, the reason the nation's drowing in debt and suffering a banking collapse.

Harry Guerrilla · Mar 11, 2009

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways said:
You know, it hurts me when people say things like this. The media never portrays kids well, and we're no worse - maybe better, bertainly better-informed - than our parents were at our age. We're also much more enviro-minded and supportive of equality, the first generation that grew up with general acceptance of homosexuals, for example. If anyone's going to fix the problems you guys (not to generalize; your generation) made, it will be us.

I'm not sure what generation you represent but I'm 25 and my peers have been less than stellar in their understanding of what it takes to continue a free nation.

I think it is a further degradation of their parents views.

Frank Talk · Mar 11, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Students? If they knew ****, they'd be done going to school....unless they're military vets. Since they don't know ****, they don't need to vote.

So a high school dropout or graduate whose paying income taxes knows **** but a undergraduate student or someone who takes a couple years off to earn an advanced degree doesn't?

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways · Mar 11, 2009

Frank Talk said:
So a high school dropout or graduate whose paying income taxes knows **** but a undergraduate student or someone who takes a couple years off to earn an advanced degree doesn't?

Don't mess with fry cooks at McDonalds. If anyone knows ****, they do.

American · Mar 11, 2009

CaptainCourtesy said:
I'd rather have college kids vote than old people with their ancient reactionary ideals mucking up progress.

See? I can be partisan, too. Now, how about keeping the partisan hackery out of this?

No joke at all. If you do not believe that this happens, you are being quite naive.

Oh hush, and stop ****ing with our hackery. :lol:

jallman · Mar 12, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I don't like Democrats either.

Unlike you, I don't support their positions.

All you just did is prove you don't know jack **** about anything except how to toe a party line. Your analytical skills just failed you. You shouldn't be voting.

Just because YOU can't win an argument doesn't mean the other guy isn't using sound logic.

Whatever you say, champ. I haven't even begun to argue let alone attempt to win it. But you're losing it just fine all on your own.

Well, let's take 'em one at a time.

Let's do. :lol:

Students? If they knew ****, they'd be done going to school....unless they're military vets. Since they don't know ****, they don't need to vote.

Is this your famous "logic"? That the status of "student" makes, for instance, a person who just last year was working as a McDonalds fry boy and paying taxes somehow less capable of voting as they were before? That somehow they now know less than they did at their summer job as a construction worker?

Wow. I don't really know what else there is to say to such a mindless and idiotic assertion.

Disabled people...if they can't earn money, they've got bigger problems than getting to the polls....and if they're not earning enough to pay income taxes....no, they shouldn't have a vote. I'm easy. Just because they're crippled doesn't mean they should get anything for free.

So the wheelchair bound person who last year was paying taxes before what put him in a wheelchair is now less of a citizen while he is going through physical therapy or vocational training to get him back to work?

How moronic and stupid is that?

I'm also blunt.

Blunt is your excuse for being rude and ignorant.

That means I don't have a pointy head, got it?

Oh I got it. You gained in thickness of the skull what you gave up in pointiness.

Volunteering is nice. Why should someone who makes a choice to "volunteer", and thereby forego earning an income that can be taxed, get benefits the people that earn the incomes and pay the taxes get...ie, voting for the members of congress who decide how the tax dollars are spent? It's not the volunteers tax dollars, right?

Expenditure of tax dollars is not all a vote is made for. I mean, it may be to a tunnel visioned idiot who can't walk and chew gum at the same time because his brain doesn't multitask. But to even the "average" person, that is not a difficult task. But if we want to narrow it down to the tax dollar, the volunteer is a set of "boots on the ground" and has much more of a clue how to spend the dollar wisely and what policies may or may not work than the disinterested donor who simply writes the check.

So, if they want a "voice in government", how about if the drop the feel good stuff and get an honest job, instead?

An honest job? I didn't realize that housewives who volunteer at soup kitchens or the elderly who offer their time to hospice programs, etc, weren't doing an honest job. I'm sure that may be news to them, too.

You don't have to be comfortable with it.

I know, because it's never going to happen. :mrgreen:

You just have to accept the fact that it's morally wrong for people who don't earn the money to have a say in how it's spent.

But it is also morally wrong for a person to not have an equal voice in how they are governed. You are basically advocating that the vote be bought and that all citizens who do not buy their vote are expected to capitulate like an underclass to those who do buy their vote. It doesn't work that way, champ.

There's really no getting around that point.

While you may blindly posture that I haven't, I am fairly comfortable that I have shown many ways around that "point".

If they haven't paid, they shouldn't expect to play.

Well this says all that needs to be said about your understanding of the importance of government and the sanctity of the republic.

And if that means the people who do pay decide that the people who don't vote don't have unconstitutional entitlements to their money, that's only fair. Socialism is, after all, the reason the nation's drowing in debt and suffering a banking collapse.

And here you simply prove that you haven't the slightest idea what socialism is either. To you it's just a charged word that you think acts as a period on the end of an ill-conceived argument that makes up in ignorance what it lacks in rational merit.

BetterHalf · Mar 12, 2009

Pookie said:
Holy crap, I never thought of that. I don't know -- I would have to think about it, so I can't say yes or no.
You need a 3rd option there -- "too ignorant to figure it out, and this only applies to Pookie."
Purrs,
Pookie

Pooks, we talked about this, remember. I know you jury's out but mine isn't, I said No. Too many people have lost jobs and it's a temporary thing for most of them and I think every American should be able to vote reglardless of their circumstances.

Hatuey · Mar 12, 2009

I say we deny women the right to vote. They only care about their rights. Discriminating broads. ALL OF THEM. Alright time to go beat up my wife.

jallman · Mar 12, 2009

Kandahar said:
There you go again. Proving that you are the "embodiment of reason" as you claim. Carry on trolling now.

I was reserving judgment but I am convinced that you have it spot on at this stage of the game. Troll and nothing more. At least on this thread.

RightinNYC · Mar 12, 2009

Hatuey said:
I say we deny women the right to vote. They only care about their rights. Discriminating broads. ALL OF THEM. Alright time to go beat up my wife.

Petition to Repeal the Nineteenth Amendment

Hatuey · Mar 12, 2009

RightinNYC said:
Petition to Repeal the Nineteenth Amendment

Only 12% of men and 9% of women support such "liberal" concepts as the Nineteenth Amendment.
*

Professor John Lott, Law School University of Chicago, women's suffrage, and nothing else, caused unbridled government growth.
*

Musings of an "intelligent" American woman.
*

Senator Kay O'Connor agrees.
*

A review of the effects of the Nineteenth Amendment on women by Alia Darrow.
*

Elizabeth Nickson on why women shouldn't vote.
*

Read the Entire Petition.
*

How other differences between the sexes.deteriorates the political process.
*

American 12th grade girls demonstrate zero percent knowledge of physics.
*

See graphs of the effects of the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment.
*

F'n brilliant. Nothing like MSN convos to prove your point.

Orion · Mar 12, 2009

Last time I checked, being born in the U.S. meant you were a citizen, and citizens get Constitutional rights. Your citizenship isn't based on how much money you make or your way of life, and your rights aren't revoked because you don't fall into an income tax bracket. Money is what helped the settlers buy resources to build America, but it was their own physical strength, endurance, and dedication that permitted them to continue. Just because you don't make money doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute.

Sounds to me like advocates of this idea are the type of people who would never volunteer or do anything unpaid.

Harry Guerrilla · Mar 12, 2009

Hatuey said:
F'n brilliant. Nothing like MSN convos to prove your point.

Did you read the actual supporting evidence?

I think the site that is presenting it is stupid but I've known about this paper for some time, I just couldn't find a link for it.

It's pretty enlightening.

I tried to get the paper from the Chicago Journals but you have to pay for it.

http://www.christianparty.net/lottonsuffrage.pdf

Orius said:
Last time I checked, being born in the U.S. meant you were a citizen, and citizens get Constitutional rights. Your citizenship isn't based on how much money you make or your way of life, and your rights aren't revoked because you don't fall into an income tax bracket. Money is what helped the settlers buy resources to build America, but it was their own physical strength, endurance, and dedication that permitted them to continue. Just because you don't make money doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute.

Sounds to me like advocates of this idea are the type of people who would never volunteer or do anything unpaid.

I understand what you are saying.

Why should everyone be able to vote when most don't understand the concepts of which our government was founded on?

They only hurt the freedoms and liberty we are supposed to enjoy from their complete ignorance and stupidity.

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 12, 2009

bilbus said:
She does not contribute to society, she contributes to her family, its not the same.

By contributing to her family she assists in the positive rearing of her children which contributes to society. You are absolutely wrong.

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 12, 2009

Goobieman said:
Can you cite an example of a wealthy person that paid no federal imcome tax due to loopholes?

RightinNYC said:
Re: The ultra-rich not paying taxes - That's just not possible, unless they actually have no income. There is no way to get out of paying taxes altogether, regardless of how many deductions or tax shelters you use.

I'm not going to research it, but I'd imagine it's possible with charitable donations and other ways to defer or not declare income. If it would help, though I believe I am correct, theoretically, Ill concede this point.

Something to consider, though. Before the 16th Amendment, plenty of people voted. Does this mean our founding fathers were wrong about people being allowed to vote?

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 12, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I don't like Democrats either.

Unlike you, I don't support their positions.

Just because YOU can't win an argument doesn't mean the other guy isn't using sound logic.

Let's try this. Perhaps you need to attack positions because you cannot logically win an argument and prefer to post in hyperbole because that's all you've got. So let's take your points one at at time...and watch...I can show you just how ridiculous your comments are by countering them with equally ridiculous statements.

Well, let's take 'em one at a time.

Students? If they knew ****, they'd be done going to school....unless they're military vets. Since they don't know ****, they don't need to vote.

Or perhaps those in the military were too stupid to go to college...therefore they should not vote because of their lack of intelligence.

See what I did? I matched your idiocy with some equal idiocy.

Disabled people...if they can't earn money, they've got bigger problems than getting to the polls....and if they're not earning enough to pay income taxes....no, they shouldn't have a vote. I'm easy. Just because they're crippled doesn't mean they should get anything for free.

And people who are not disabled have no right voting for any services that they should not get. Therefore, only the disabled should vote, since it is they who are getting the services.

Idiocy meet idiocy.

I'm also blunt.

And have no clue.

That means I don't have a pointy head, got it?

Nor does it mean you have a point...as evidenced by your post.

Volunteering is nice. Why should someone who makes a choice to "volunteer", and thereby forego earning an income that can be taxed, get benefits the people that earn the incomes and pay the taxes get...ie, voting for the members of congress who decide how the tax dollars are spent? It's not the volunteers tax dollars, right?

These are people who are performing a service, perhaps for their country...making them a whole lot more valuable than the guy making millions selling real estate.

Hyperbole meet hyperbole.

So, if they want a "voice in government", how about if the drop the feel good stuff and get an honest job, instead?

If you want a voice in government, how about drop the "greed" and participate in it.

Foolishness meet foolishness.

You just have to accept the fact that it's morally wrong for people who don't earn the money to have a say in how it's spent.

In your opinion. Your morals count for diddly. As does everyone's moral when trying to make a coherent argument.

And if that means the people who do pay decide that the people who don't vote don't have unconstitutional entitlements to their money, that's only fair. Socialism is, after all, the reason the nation's drowing in debt and suffering a banking collapse.

Fortunately, most people recognize the idiocy of not allowing people to vote so this will never occur...unless a dictatorship, which seems to be what you are proposing, happens in the US.

And as a note. My comments above do not reflect my beliefs. I have the utmost respect for the military, students, volunteers, the disabled, the abled, and the like. My points were made to demonstrate the foolishness of what Scarecrow said. Which was rather easy to do.

RightinNYC · Mar 12, 2009

Hatuey said:
F'n brilliant. Nothing like MSN convos to prove your point.

You left out the best part!

"I, as a submissive woman of God, and of sound mind, do hereby give my vote to this man of God: __________________ to exercise for the glory of Yahvh, our Creator. I make this statement publickly as an example for other godly women to emulate, and for the edification of the world through which we are passing.

I make this statement bona fide dei gratia, for Christ Jesus my Lord. Amen."

Signed: _______________________

Sponsored by: Women for God's Law

I know I already filled mine out.

Orius said:
Last time I checked, being born in the U.S. meant you were a citizen, and citizens get Constitutional rights. Your citizenship isn't based on how much money you make or your way of life, and your rights aren't revoked because you don't fall into an income tax bracket. Money is what helped the settlers buy resources to build America, but it was their own physical strength, endurance, and dedication that permitted them to continue. Just because you don't make money doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute.

Sounds to me like advocates of this idea are the type of people who would never volunteer or do anything unpaid.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee anyone the right to vote.

"The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College."

CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm not going to research it, but I'd imagine it's possible with charitable donations and other ways to defer or not declare income. If it would help, though I believe I am correct, theoretically, Ill concede this point.

I think that the AMT limits the amount of deductions that you can take even accounting for charitable donations. Warren Buffet donated $40b to charity and he still pays 15% on his capital gains like everyone else.

Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

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