Do you agree with this quote?

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Cilogy said:

Do you agree with the following quote by Aristotle?


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."


I put up an "Other" option, just so people don't whine, but I still don't see why it is needed sometimes.​

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Your sig:

Conservatives are just people who cling to the "beliefs" that have been dictated to them as children.

Grow up.

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I started as a liberal and was so until 2000.

Cilogy said:

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

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100% with one caveat and a modification. A thought/idea may not make any sense to anyone under any circumstance and therefore would be the exception.

Educated doesn't equate to intelligence.

"It is the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain and idea or thought without accepting it"

I put other. The main reason is that I think the word "mature" would better fit than educated. Of course, it was originally in Greek, so the translation may be iffy.

bhkad said:

Your sig:



I started as a liberal and was so until 2000.

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I'm curious, tell me about it.

I agree with the quote entirely and conversely, I agree with its logical opposite.

Credulousness is the mark of an ignorant and uneducated mind.

Pssssst. It only makes sense if you are able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

bhkad said:

Your sig:



I started as a liberal and was so until 2000.

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Aww man, then you obviously have some more growing up to do.

Naw dude, just pulling your leg. :rofl

It takes education and discipline to examine something without letting it affect you. And by education I don't necessarily mean going to school but people who think for themselves.

Pinu7 said:

-- Of course, it was originally in Greek, so the translation may be iffy --

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One thing I discovered when I worked with a Greek guy some years back is that the language doesn't seem to have changed too much in millenia. I had shown him a picture from an English newspaper of some ancient artifacts with inscriptions on them and he read them off without hesitation.

Try the same thing with texts written in England even 600 years ago...

So basically, I think the translation still stands - it's our version of it that may have changed. Not the Greeks' version.

Cilogy said:

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

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No. You dont have to be eductated to do that.
And, the ability to do that doesn't mean you are, or make you, educated.

Your sig:

Conservatives are just people who cling to the "beliefs" that have been dictated to them as children.
Grow up.

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Gotta love the thoughtful, open-mindedness of the left.
:roll:

Goobieman said:

No. You dont have to be eductated to do that.
And, the ability to do that doesn't mean you are, or make you, educated.

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First of all, the quote is not saying that you have to be educated in order to judge a situation dispassionately. Therefore your first point is invalid.

Second, the ability to judge a situation dispassionately does not make you educated, the ability shows that you already are educated and that you know enough about the world and the current situation to not accept it but still find interest in it. Therefore your second point is invalid.

Your sig:

Gotta love the thoughtful, open-mindedness of the left.
:roll:

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I'm open minded enough to realize that conservative ideologies are too "controlled," very tightly packed, and too guarded.

Now, I'm not making fun of you Goobieman, just reasoning.

I don't condemn conservative ideas with extreme opposition, I just think they are ideas which are forced upon people before they learn more about the world. I see many conservatives as those who are still clinging to the ship, knowing that the storm is coming, while others have learned that you can't keep holding on.

An example of this is the fact that you disagree with Aristotle's quote. Those who think that you cannot entertain a thought without accepting it obviously have not learned enough, they still cling the idea that you must always hold to your beliefs and not consider other ideas, even if those other ideas are sometimes better than their current belief.

But I thought more about your argument, and I think I might be a bit too "gruff" for being liberal to say such a thing in my sig. Therefore I'm going to remove the phrase "grow up."

Cilogy said:

First of all, the quote is not saying that you have to be educated in order to judge a situation dispassionately. Therefore your first point is invalid.

Second, the ability to judge a situation dispassionately does not make you educated, the ability shows that you already are educated and that you know enough about the world and the current situation to not accept it but still find interest in it. Therefore your second point is invalid.

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No. They are not. You're trying to necessasily link two concepts that have no necessary relationship. Both can exist without the other; that one exists does not necessitate that the other exists as well.

That is, you CAN have an educated mind and NOT entertain a position without accepting it, and an UN-educated mind CAN entertain a position without accepting it.

I'm open minded enough to realize that conservative ideologies are too "controlled," very tightly packed, and too guarded.

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Your argument here is self-defeating, as no one truely open minded would reach such a conclusion.

Goobieman said:

No. They are not. You're trying to necessasily link two concepts that have no necessary relationship. Both can exist without the other; that one exists does not necessitate that the other exists as well.

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I agree that you don't have to have the ability to entertain thoughts in order to be educated. But the idea that you have the ability entertain thoughts means that you are educated enough to be open minded.

That is, you CAN have an educated mind and NOT entertain a position without accepting it,

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This is true, I agree with this statement. I never said that being educated automatically makes you entertain thoughts like that. I just said that being educated gives you the ability to entertain thoughts in such a way.

and an UN-educated mind CAN entertain a position without accepting it.

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This is not necessarily true. A person who has the ability to entertain thoughts without accepting them is therefore educated enough to do so.

If you do not agree with this, then give me an example of how you can be uneducated and still entertain thoughts, then I will explain it.

My main point is that if someone is able entertain a thought without accepting it, it means that the person is knowledgeable.

Your argument here is self-defeating, as no one truely open minded would reach such a conclusion.

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Oh my god I'm so sorry I didn't mean it like that.

I guess you're right. Actually I find myself accepting some conservative ideas sometimes. This is why I believe I am open minded.

An open minded doesn't accept every opinion, an open minded person will hear every opinion, every side of an argument.

I also feel open minded because I don't automatically reject conservative ideas. I think about them first, I entertain those thoughts without accepting them first and apply them to the real world, then I see which ones will work, which ones make sense. Therefore I come to my own conclusions based on the comparison of my beliefs versus conservative ideas.

Yeah, sure.

Only an educated mind can give the odd idea a good song and dance without cluttering his house up with a thousand stray cats.

obvious Child said:

100% with one caveat and a modification. A thought/idea may not make any sense to anyone under any circumstance and therefore would be the exception.

Educated doesn't equate to intelligence.

"It is the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain and idea or thought without accepting it"

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My thoughts exactly and why I put other (holy crap, it can make sense!)



P.S. I would just like to note that saying "I put up an "Other" option, just so people don't whine, but I still don't see why it is needed sometimes." is an example of not being able to entertain a thought while not having accepted it. :2razz:

To the OP: You didn't add the option because you entertained the thought that it could be a plausible response, you did it to prevent "whining". In truth, if you truly believe the Aristotelian quote, it would also mean that you also believe yourself to be uneducated. :2razz::2razz:

I think even a stupid man can entertain thoughts without accepting them. And maybe that is the true point by using irony after you fully chew the words through.


My favorite philisophical quote: (On if Israel will use nukes or not)

"Well lets just say this... Israel will not be the second nation to be nuked"

Without intellect, an education is fruitless....
Without education, intellect is wasted....

bhkad said:

I started as a liberal and was so until 2000.

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I'm curious about this as well. What happened in 2000 that could have changed your mind and, how old are you?

I have a strong suspicion many here are jumping to conclusions about the meaning of word 'educated' in the quote.

Synonyms:

accomplished, acquainted with, brainy, civilized, coached, corrected, cultivated, cultured, developed, enlightened, enriched, erudite, expert, finished, fitted, formed, informed, initiated, instructed, intelligent, knowledgeable, lettered, literary, literate, nurtured, polished, prepared, professional, refined, scholarly, schooled, scientific, shaped, skilled, tasteful, taught, trained, tutored, versed in, well-informed, well-read, well-taught, well-versed

Any linguists in the group who can give us a better understanding of Aristotle's original usage?

Pinu7 said:

I put other. The main reason is that I think the word "mature" would better fit than educated. Of course, it was originally in Greek, so the translation may be iffy.


I'm curious, tell me about it.

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A friend suggested I was a conservative but I was unaware of it. I voted for Algore then began looking at the opposition to gwb and felt he didn't deserve the criticism. As time went on I saw the opposition to the president as distasteful and wrongheaded. I never looked back.

YOur education can be informal as well as formal.

Grateful Heart said:

Any linguists in the group who can give us a better understanding of Aristotle's original usage?

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I can't find the quote in context. if I could see the original greek I could maybe add some insight (a lot of their words are just compound words so it's easy to pick them apart) but all I can tell from google is that there's actually some debate as to whether aristotle actually ever said it.

Goobieman, are you going to respond to my response to your response to my comment?

I would honestly like to continue our discussion.

I voted yes and I think that's pretty much true. I find myself being subjected to a lot of idiotic ideas at work and have to think through them in order to tell people why their idea won't work realistically.

Cilogy said:

This is not necessarily true. A person who has the ability to entertain thoughts without accepting them is therefore educated enough to do so.

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THAT is not necessarily true. You dont need to have any degree of edusation at all to be able to do that. What you DO need is true open-mindedness, which doesn't need to be taught.

My main point is that if someone is able entertain a thought without accepting it, it means that the person is knowledgeable.

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Again, not at all true. Knowledge isnt the key; open-mindedness is, and there's no necessary relationship between the two.

I guess you're right.

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Yes, I am :mrgreen: