Do you believe in Man Made Global Warming?

zimmer · Mar 7, 2009

Do you?

It means, if we can warm the climate, we can cool it too.

Do you really think man can accomplish this intentionally or not?

I think if we made an all out effort one way or the other it would never work.

In 15th Century Europe they had a mini Ice-Age. How would the enviromanics react to that today? Like the Chicken Littles they are?

South Bavaria was a wine region up to 500-years ago. It's too cold to be a wine region today. Shouldn't we be warmer then?

Math for the warmest period during the last 100 years was recently corrected by a 14-year old math geek. The last decade was the hottest using Algore math, but falls down the list when people add 1+1.

The Hockey stick curve was also exploded. It was a fixed program.

In models they cannot factor in the role of water vapor accurately... clouds... because they don't know what it does.

Global Warming Hoax: NASA Revises Temperature Data - 1930's warmest on record!

* Only 4 of the top 10 warmest years occurred in the past 10 years (1998, 1999, 2006)
* Out of the top 10 warmest years half occurred before 1940
* The years 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2004 were cooler than the year 1900
* 1996, just two years before what Al Gore called the hottest year in the history of the planet, was actually cooler than average.
* 1921 was the third warmest year in recorded history (behind 1934 and 1998).

Arch Enemy · Mar 7, 2009

I have to agree.

I say that there is evidence that suggests we do have an effect on the climate, but, I do think there is an abundance of hype as far as Global Warming itself; I think we are a bit narcissistic in our beliefs that we could have this much impact on the temperature of our planet.

However, I do believe some anthropogenic functions are acting to deteriorate our environment, at a negative cost to both it and us. Deforestation is ridding ecological areas of needed nutrients. Carbon and fossil fuels in the atmosphere are causing acid rain, which also destroys flora. I think it behooves us to make efforts to protect and aide the environment, but the status quo is a bit over bearing.

Needless to say:

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 7, 2009

I believe in man made ruination of the globe, horribly dangerous pollution, nasty living condition, garbage mountains, constant smoke chimneys, smoke from cars, garbage, chemicals, smoke, more smoke, toxic pollutants...

There is no reason for me not to believe in man made global warming when we smoke the earth, just like a smoker smokes his lungs.

I have seen effects even in my age of living.. My country Norway is quite a cold country, the west and south where I have lived in relatively warmer than the rest, but when I was young we often had snow and ice, now there is never snow and ice anymore in those places, just rain and wind like the rest of the year.. Is there something going on? Yes, definetely. Is that man made global warming? most likely, yes, certain? no.

Kernel Sanders · Mar 7, 2009

I think that with hundreds of millions of vehicles on the road and millions of factories and power plants spewing gasses on a scale that has never been seen, and with the rapid transition to such a state (less than a century), it would be pretty incredible if we were having no impact on the climate.

zimmer · Mar 7, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
I believe in man made ruination of the globe, horribly dangerous pollution, nasty living condition, garbage mountains, constant smoke chimneys, smoke from cars, garbage, chemicals, smoke, more smoke, toxic pollutants...

There is no reason for me not to believe in man made global warming when we smoke the earth, just like a smoker smokes his lungs.

I have seen effects even in my age of living.. My country Norway is quite a cold country, the west and south where I have lived in relatively warmer than the rest, but when I was young we often had snow and ice, now there is never snow and ice anymore in those places, just rain and wind like the rest of the year.. Is there something going on? Yes, definetely. Is that man made global warming? most likely, yes, certain? no.

Smoke?
What about all the crap from the volcanoes?
They don't work from 9 to 5.
Wildfires that would burn massively if not for man putting them out.
All the lightening strikes, tsunami's, hurricanes, drought, wind, sand.

Hell, where it is green in Africa was once arid and where arid it was green. What would enviromaniacs make of that?

This is an ultra-violent planet.

And the sun?
That little ball of thermonuclear explosions that flares and gives us heat waves? And leaves us cold when it disappears in the evening?

It's not constant... and its activity has been traced to... our globe warming!:shock:

Nah... meaningless...

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 7, 2009

zimmer said:
Smoke?
What about all the crap from the volcanoes?
They don't work from 9 to 5.
Wildfires that would burn massively if not for man putting them out.
All the lightening strikes, tsunami's, hurricanes, drought, wind, sand.

Hell, where it is green in Africa was once arid and where arid it was green. What would enviromaniacs make of that?

This is an ultra-violent planet.

And the sun?
That little ball of thermonuclear explosions that flares and gives us heat waves? And leaves us cold when it disappears in the evening?

It's not constant... and its activity has been traced to... our globe warming!:shock:

Nah... meaningless...

Have you ever been to a large city? Its disgusting.. Garbage, pollution, unfresh air, trash, dirtha nd so fourth.

Have you ever been to a real "industrial city"? Where factories puke out poison from Chimneys, constant stream of hot smoke from thousands of them. Ever seen that? And smelled the air in such a city? The air smells like fart and cigarettes.

How active are volcanoes anyways? What happens when they break out really large? Disaster, the smoke clounds the heavens and ofcourse the lava has horrendeus effects. But then again, how many volcanoes have erupted hugely the last 50 years, and how much smoke and gasses and poison came from that, compared with the last 50 years of industry?

I am not saying these things are definitely the reason for whats happening, but it most likely has some negative effect on the planet, and if it do not, we definetely know for sure it has a negative effect on how humans live and the human environment.

For all we know, gap of science could be the reason for the global warming, unknown movements of the sun vs the earth, vs the moon and so fourth that we havent taken into consideration. Moon shifting the natural pole positions of the earth, or them having shifted all along. A lot of unknown factors could play in. But the way humans live in pollution is just a bad way to keep living, no matter if it ruins our planet or just ourselves.

Moon · Mar 7, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Have you ever been to a large city? Its disgusting.. Garbage, pollution, unfresh air, trash, dirtha nd so fourth.

Have you ever been to a real "industrial city"? Where factories puke out poison from Chimneys, constant stream of hot smoke from thousands of them. Ever seen that? And smelled the air in such a city? The air smells like fart and cigarettes.

How active are volcanoes anyways? What happens when they break out really large? Disaster, the smoke clounds the heavens and ofcourse the lava has horrendeus effects. But then again, how many volcanoes have erupted hugely the last 50 years, and how much smoke and gasses and poison came from that, compared with the last 50 years of industry?

I am not saying these things are definitely the reason for whats happening, but it most likely has some negative effect on the planet, and if it do not, we definetely know for sure it has a negative effect on how humans live and the human environment.

For all we know, gap of science could be the reason for the global warming, unknown movements of the sun vs the earth, vs the moon and so fourth that we havent taken into consideration. Moon shifting the natural pole positions of the earth, or them having shifted all along. A lot of unknown factors could play in. But the way humans live in pollution is just a bad way to keep living, no matter if it ruins our planet or just ourselves.

Not making an argument one way or another, but here's a pretty interesting timeline for volcanic eruptions that found that might be interesting.

Link

zimmer · Mar 7, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Maximus Zeebra said:

Have you ever been to a large city? Its disgusting.. Garbage, pollution, unfresh air, trash, dirtha nd so fourth.

Click to expand...

Seen and lived in many.

Have you ever been to a real "industrial city"? Where factories puke out poison from Chimneys, constant stream of hot smoke from thousands of them. Ever seen that? And smelled the air in such a city? The air smells like fart and cigarettes.

Click to expand...

Go through any Eastern European city. They burn a lot of coal.

How active are volcanoes anyways? What happens when they break out really large? Disaster, the smoke clounds the heavens and ofcourse the lava has horrendeus effects. But then again, how many volcanoes have erupted hugely the last 50 years, and how much smoke and gasses and poison came from that, compared with the last 50 years of industry?

Click to expand...

There are volcanoes all over the planet that are regularly active; constantly spewing their inner filth.

I am not saying these things are definitely the reason for whats happening, but it most likely has some negative effect on the planet, and if it do not, we definetely know for sure it has a negative effect on how humans live and the human environment.

Click to expand...

Nothing we can use to control climate... sorry.

For all we know, gap of science could be the reason for the global warming, unknown movements of the sun vs the earth, vs the moon and so fourth that we havent taken into consideration. Moon shifting the natural pole positions of the earth, or them having shifted all along. A lot of unknown factors could play in. But the way humans live in pollution is just a bad way to keep living, no matter if it ruins our planet or just ourselves.

Click to expand...

Nobody likes pollution, but let's not be stupid and WASTE bajillions on something we cannot control.

As Lomborg points out, we have a bajillion better things to do with the money than try to fix something we can't.

Pinu7 · Mar 7, 2009

zimmer said:
Do you?

It means, if we can warm the climate, we can cool it too.

Yas and
Yes with lots of sulfur in the atmosphere. But that is not a good solution.

Do you really think man can accomplish this intentionally or not?

Of course we can. Look at extinction rate, habitat loss, etc. The environment hasn't had this much turbulence since the killing of the dinosaurs. And the atmosphere is just as fragile as the biosphere. and 75% of the mass of the atmosphere is the thin troposphere which is closest to earth which we are changing the composition of, anthropologically.

I think if we made an all out effort one way or the other it would never work.

Never say never.

In 15th Century Europe they had a mini Ice-Age. How would the enviromanics react to that today? Like the Chicken Littles they are?

If the absolute value of the derivative of temperature during the ice age was equal to the warming today, I'd say we should have been very scared. But it wasn't, so no.

If this isn't human caused, then some effed up shizz is going on.

South Bavaria was a wine region up to 500-years ago. It's too cold to be a wine region today. Shouldn't we be warmer then?

Average global temperatures are important. Not small isolated areas. That cooling perhaps was an exception and a trip to Google would answer that question.

Math for the warmest period during the last 100 years was recently corrected by a 14-year old math geek. The last decade was the hottest using Algore math, but falls down the list when people add 1+1.

Cite that

The Hockey stick curve was also exploded. It was a fixed program

.
Agreed.

In models they cannot factor in the role of water vapor accurately... clouds... because they don't know what it does.

Also agreed.

Global Warming Hoax: NASA Revises Temperature Data - 1930's warmest on record!

From Globalwarminghoax.com?

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 7, 2009

Moon said:
Not making an argument one way or another, but here's a pretty interesting timeline for volcanic eruptions that found that might be interesting.

Link

Now THATS a lot of interesting data in just one page. I don't quite know how to inteprete the peak as of lately though. It could be interpreted in a whole massive amounts of different ways. I have to chew on that for a bit. Very interesting though, thanks.

Moon · Mar 7, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Now THATS a lot of interesting data in just one page. I don't quite know how to inteprete the peak as of lately though. It could be interpreted in a whole massive amounts of different ways. I have to chew on that for a bit. Very interesting though, thanks.

One thing that really stood out for me was the two massive eruptions (Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Pinatubo) that occurred only 11 years apart. I lived near Pinatubo right up until the eruption. It was very interesting to see some of the eruptions (there were several) and then the aftermath several weeks later.

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 7, 2009

zimmer said:
Nothing we can use to control climate... sorry.

Yes there is. Embrace a cleaner more effective creation of energy(more nuclear, wind, solar, ocean and motion energy in general), and fully embrace electric energy as the standard of all energy for everything. That would go a long way to clean up our cities at least, it would make all the "environment" people happy, and it would create massive amounts of activity(jobs).

At best it could reverse the negative effects of human created global warming(if such exist), at worst it could launch us into a cleaner future, with cleaner more silent cities.

Things such as more effective processing of garbage could also go a long way in reversing human created global warming or just clean up our act and make everyone more happy, and our economy more effective(recycling, creating energy from trash and so fourth).

zimmer said:
Nobody likes pollution, but let's not be stupid and WASTE bajillions on something we cannot control.

As Lomborg points out, we have a bajillion better things to do with the money than try to fix something we can't.

Really? Whats more important than cleaning up the air in cities for example, we have embrace personal hygiene, so why not embrace a cleaner more fresh society? Less dirt, less garbage, less noise, less dirty air and so fourth. Wouldn't that make you happy? You said you have lived in cities, so I cannot see how such measure could NOT make you happy.

PS. Renewable energy for the society in the long run makes far more economic sense than non-renewable energy.

Hatuey · Mar 7, 2009

If man can and had destroyes entire ecosystems and habitats by building cities and claiming farm land from ancient jungles it seems ridiculous that he wouldn't or couldn't have any kind of real damaging consequences like Global Warming on the entire planet when this damage is done on a planet wide scale. As far as the poll. I don't believe in Man Made Global Warming. I take it as a fact. Therefor I can not answer the poll question.

Tagged N. · Mar 7, 2009

Well first we'll have to get rid of all this freedom and personal liberty nonsense because that's going to slow everything down. Then we must accept that those "wizards of smart" that can't say definitively whether it will rain tomorrow on my 75'x150' lot, can predict the future of weather for the entire globe. And finally we'll need to get rid of the economy that has produced the highest standard of living the planet has ever known. Because we can't wait for the market to give us the cleaner energy that everyone would be more than happy to use if it were available. Meanwhile the extremists are becoming fabulously wealthy, pure coincidence I'm sure.

I work with some 'good ole boys' that are working on ideas in the garage for generating electricity on the micro-level. Taking their homes completely off grid. And they are having surprising success. A link posted a few days ago went to a drag car that was winning time trials against gas powered drag cars, again built in some guys' garage. The American Spirit of entrepreneurial-ism is alive and well outside the Chicken Little circles, and the answers are coming. If we'll just take a breath and stop running in circles trying to scare everyone to death we'll have the answers without having to live like the uni-bomber. Those people like ALGORE who are out front are there because it's profitable, just like T. Boone Picken-your-pocket. The private market solution won't require government subsidy to work. The real heroes are always going to be the guy with a vision and lot's of coffee. He'll step out of the shadows when his product is marketable. The socialists who think government has to do everything just can't seem to muster faith in their fellow man.

Hatuey · Mar 7, 2009

Tagged N. said:
Well first we'll have to get rid of all this freedom and personal liberty nonsense because that's going to slow everything down. Then we must accept that those "wizards of smart" that can't say definitively whether it will rain tomorrow on my 75'x150' lot, can predict the future of weather for the entire globe. And finally we'll need to get rid of the economy that has produced the highest standard of living the planet has ever known. Because we can't wait for the market to give us the cleaner energy that everyone would be more than happy to use if it were available. Meanwhile the extremists are becoming fabulously wealthy, pure coincidence I'm sure.

You do know that meteorology and climatology are not the same thing right?

Meteorology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meteorology (from Greek μετέωρος, metéōros, "high in the sky"; and -λογία, -logia) is the interdisciplinary scientific study of the atmosphere that focuses on weather processes and forecasting (in contrast with climatology). Studies in the field stretch back millennia, though significant progress in meteorology did not occur until the eighteenth century. The nineteenth century saw breakthroughs occur after observing networks developed across several countries. Breakthroughs in weather forecasting were achieved in the latter half of the twentieth century, after the development of the computer.

Climatology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Climatology (from Greek κλίμα, klima, "region, zone"; and -λογία, -logia) is the study of climate, scientifically defined as weather conditions averaged over a period of time,[1] and is a branch of the atmospheric sciences. Basic knowledge of climate can be used within shorter term weather forecasting using analog techniques such as the El Niño - Southern Oscillation (ENSO), the Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO), the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), the Northern Annualar Mode (NAM), the Arctic oscillation (AO), the Northern Pacific (NP) Index, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), and the Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation (IPO). Climate models are used for a variety of purposes from study of the dynamics of the weather and climate system to projections of future climate.

jamesrage · Mar 7, 2009

I voted no, I do not believe in the man made global warming fairy tale.

Tagged N. · Mar 7, 2009

Hatuey said:
You do know that meteorology and climatology are not the same thing right?

Meteorology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Climatology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, thank you.

zimmer · Mar 7, 2009

Pinu7 said:
From Globalwarminghoax.com?

I usually link the most left wing source I can find.

This time I threw it in there to see if anyone would complain... it's basically NASA's work.

zimmer · Mar 7, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Maximus Zeebra said:

Really? Whats more important than cleaning up the air in cities for example, we have embrace personal hygiene, so why not embrace a cleaner more fresh society? Less dirt, less garbage, less noise, less dirty air and so fourth. Wouldn't that make you happy? You said you have lived in cities, so I cannot see how such measure could NOT make you happy.

Click to expand...

Go back and read the quote... cleaner air in cities will not make global warming go Bye-bye:2wave:

PS. Renewable energy for the society in the long run makes far more economic sense than non-renewable energy.

Click to expand...

Oil makes sense NOW.

Our industries revolve around oil.
Cars.
It's cheap and plentiful.
It's what made us... Us.

Renewable couldn't keep the world going and one day we will use another source... to serve the billions on this planet. Nuclear is my bet.

Nothing else makes sense... Greeny Fuel might feel good, but will it power a world needing more energy? Nope.
It'll have its niche market... like the corner store vs. Wal Mart Worldwide.

Would be nice, but reality is cruel.

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 7, 2009

zimmer said:
Oil makes sense NOW.

Our industries revolve around oil.
Cars.
It's cheap and plentiful.
It's what made us... Us.

Renewable couldn't keep the world going and one day we will use another source... to serve the billions on this planet. Nuclear is my bet.

Nothing else makes sense... Greeny Fuel might feel good, but will it power a world needing more energy? Nope.
It'll have its niche market... like the corner store vs. Wal Mart Worldwide.

Would be nice, but reality is cruel.

No it doesnt.. Oil is running out and will eventually run out. It makes sense to prepare for that ahead of time..

Hatuey · Mar 7, 2009

Tagged N. said:
Yes, thank you.

No problem. I thought you should learn the difference. The people telling you what the weather will be like tomorrow are not the same people who study the climate. :2wave:

Tagged N. · Mar 7, 2009

Hatuey said:
No problem. I thought you should learn the difference. The people telling you what the weather will be like tomorrow are not the same people who study the climate. :2wave:

I'll consider myself handily dealt with.

So, where do the climatologists get their data? I may have incorrectly assumed they would accumulate it, at least in part, from statistical data gathered by meteorologists.

Climatology (from Greek κλίμα, klima, "region, zone"; and -λογία, -logia) is the study of climate, scientifically defined as weather conditions averaged over a period of time

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/JC_comments.doc

This by article from 2007 by John Coleman (founder of The Weather Chanel) in which he states outright that the man-made global warming idea is a scam also...

I suspect you might like to say to me, "John, look the research that supports the case for global warming was done by research scientists; people with PH D's in Meteorology. They are employed by major universities and important research institutions. Their work has been reviewed by other scientists with PH D's. They have to know a lot more about it than you do. Come on, John, get with it. The experts say our pollution has created an strong and increasing greenhouse effect and a rapid, out of control global warming is underway that will sky rocket temperatures, destroy agriculture, melt the ice caps, flood the coastlines and end life as we know it. How can you dissent from this crisis? You must be a bit nutty.

Allow me, please, to explain how I think this all came about. Our universities have become somewhat isolated from the rest of us. There is a culture and attitudes and values and pressures on campus that are very different. I know this group well. My father and my older brother were both PHD-University types. I was raised in the university culture. Any person who spends a decade at a university obtaining a PHD in Meteorology and become a research scientist, more likely than not, becomes a part of that single minded culture. They all look askance at the rest of us, certain of their superiority. They respect government and disrespect business, particularly big business. They are environmentalists above all else.

...left me with the impression that the two groups would work together.

Thank you again, in the future I'll try to be pedantic and insufferable.

Lerxst · Mar 7, 2009

I believe that climate change is cyclic. I believe we have some impact on what our current climate conditions are based upon the amount of pollution we pump into the air. I really have no idea how much we impact climate change. I can see how our pollution impacts the environment.

I agree we should focus on clean energy, but I can't say we need to do this because we are heating the planet up. I think we need to do it because we need to curtail pollution.

I have no idea if AGW is real as far as how it's being presented. But I am pretty positive we impact our climate to some degree. Whether we are frying our own planet...well I just don't know.

American · Mar 7, 2009

Kernel Sanders said:
I think that with hundreds of millions of vehicles on the road and millions of factories and power plants spewing gasses on a scale that has never been seen, and with the rapid transition to such a state (less than a century), it would be pretty incredible if we were having no impact on the climate.

Actually factories of old were spewing out much worst stuff than today. You exaggerate the number of factories.....millions? Even if there were that many, not all factories spew out pollution. I think maybe you haven't spent much time around a factory.

liberateamerica888 · Mar 7, 2009

Even if anthropocentric global warming doesn't exist (which it does), would it be a bad thing if we switched off of oil, made our factories and entire economy more environmentally friendly, and stopped spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere? I challenge anyone here to say yes, that it would definitively be a bad thing. Granted, it may require sacrifice in the short term, but in the long term, it will be much better for air quality, preserving the current climate, and getting off of foreign oil.

Peak oil primer and links | Energy Bulletin

"...The rate of oil 'production', meaning extraction and refining (currently about 84 million barrels/day), has grown almost every year of the last century. Once we have used up about half of the original reserves, oil production becomes ever more likely stop growing and begin a terminal decline, hence 'peak'. The peak in oil production does not signify 'running out of oil', but it does mean the end of cheap oil, as we switch from a buyers' to a sellers' market. For economies leveraged on ever increasing quantities of cheap oil, the consequences may be dire. Without significant successful cultural reform, severe economic and social consequences seem inevitable."

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