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Do you care more about ideas or results?

Do you agree with the statement or not?

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ALiberalModerate

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Considering the state of the domestic and world economy, do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

In the end, all I care about until we get out of this economic crisis is that who ever gets their way in terms of public policy is proven right even if I disagree with them.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Considering the state of the domestic and world economy, do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

In the end, all I care about until we get out of this economic crisis is that who ever gets their way in terms of public policy is proven right even if I disagree with them.
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I'm a results driven kinda guy, but I'm not sure I understand what that last paragraph is getting at.

"whoever gets their way in terms of public policy is proven right even if I disagree with them"?

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but whoever gets their way in terms of public policy is getting their way in terms of public policy. It doesn't suggest anything about results.
 
Captain Obvious said:
I'm a results driven kinda guy, but I'm not sure I understand what that last paragraph is getting at.

"whoever gets their way in terms of public policy is proven right even if I disagree with them"?

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but whoever gets their way in terms of public policy is getting their way in terms of public policy. It doesn't suggest anything about results.
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I guess I could have worded that better. What I mean is for example, I may not agree with everything in the Stimulus, but despite that, I hope that it works and thus I am wrong about the parts I disagree with.

So, I hope that those that got there way in terms of shaping and passing the stimulus end up being right, because their ideas worked even if I may have not agreed with all of them.

This would be in contrast to saying, well, those that shaped the stimulus are wrong, and though I don't think it will work, I don't care even if it does, they are still wrong.
 
Just because something "works" doesn't mean it's worth the sacrifice or the means.

Like, for instance... If the government wire-tapped everyone's phones and put GPS chips in our skulls, and videotaped our every move it might make the country "safer" from "terrorists". It might "work", but the end does not always justify the means.
 
rivrrat said:
Just because something "works" doesn't mean it's worth the sacrifice or the means.

Like, for instance... If the government wire-tapped everyone's phones and put GPS chips in our skulls, and videotaped our every move it might make the country "safer" from "terrorists". It might "work", but the end does not always justify the means.
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Good point, but in the end I guess it all depends on what the ends are worth. For example, the ends had a lot more value to us during World War II and the Civil War than they did over the last 8 years, thus we gave our presidents far more leeway at the time.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
I guess I could have worded that better. What I mean is for example, I may not agree with everything in the Stimulus, but despite that, I hope that it works and thus I am wrong about the parts I disagree with.

So, I hope that those that got there way in terms of shaping and passing the stimulus end up being right, because their ideas worked even if I may have not agreed with all of them.

This would be in contrast to saying, well, those that shaped the stimulus are wrong, and though I don't think it will work, I don't care even if it does, they are still wrong.
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In that aspect, then I agree. I would put my partisanship second to results.

I don't have strong doubts that the stimulus package won't work. I'm hoping it does. Economies are funny and sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing. I question tax-and-spend policies for the long run, but if it works and turns this ship around, then I'll be glad.
 
The problem is, now that it's done, there's no way to know if the inevitable recovery is because of it or in spite of it.
 
rivrrat said:
Just because something "works" doesn't mean it's worth the sacrifice or the means.

Like, for instance... If the government wire-tapped everyone's phones and put GPS chips in our skulls, and videotaped our every move it might make the country "safer" from "terrorists". It might "work", but the end does not always justify the means.
Click to expand...

Many people already plaster whats suppose to be private for them all over the internet anyways....and are already exposed to people in almost everything they do so what difference would this make?

Only people with something disturbing to hide would disagree...true?
 
Harshaw said:
The problem is, now that it's done, there's no way to know if the inevitable recovery is because of it or in spite of it.
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Yeah. No matter what happens in the following years, pretty much anyone who's dead set on hating or loving the current administration will be able to keep their worldview with minimal cognitive dissonance.

What we really need in economics is parallel universes to experiment on.
 
SWM said:
Yeah. No matter what happens in the following years, pretty much anyone who's dead set on hating or loving the current administration will be able to keep their worldview with minimal cognitive dissonance.

What we really need in economics is parallel universes to experiment on.
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We have one - it's called the EU.

:lol::lol::lol:
 
rivrrat said:
Just because something "works" doesn't mean it's worth the sacrifice or the means.

Like, for instance... If the government wire-tapped everyone's phones and put GPS chips in our skulls, and videotaped our every move it might make the country "safer" from "terrorists". It might "work", but the end does not always justify the means.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, though we may disagree on the stimulus's conditions intrinsically making it a failure, regardless of its results (don't let me speak for you if I've assumed too much). I don't feel confident making a statement as simple and definitive as the one in the OP however...there's too many other potential variables.
 
Captain Obvious said:
We have one - it's called the EU.

:lol::lol::lol:
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France is often cited as evidence of the inevitable failure of a larger government, and France has undeniably been a hilarious failure in recent years, but similar philosophies have had much greater success in other European areas - Switzerland or Finland, for example. Speaking strictly on a basis of results, I don't think there is yet definitive evidence that more liberal philosophies of government prevalent in Europe are inherently prone to failure.



So...guess I better brace myself, then.
 
creativedreams said:
Many people already plaster whats suppose to be private for them all over the internet anyways....and are already exposed to people in almost everything they do so what difference would this make?
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One is a choice, the other is not. It's a HUGE difference

Only people with something disturbing to hide would disagree...true?
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Nope. Not the least bit true. I don't care if I'm sitting at home watching Leave it to Beaver every night, I don't want the ****ing government keeping tabs on it.
 
I disagree. Many parts of the stimulus bill are a complete waste of money, they will do nothing to help the economy, they're just porkbarrel projects to make politicians look good. Even if the bill overall helps the economy, that's no excuse for the many parts that are just garbage.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I guess I could have worded that better. What I mean is for example, I may not agree with everything in the Stimulus, but despite that, I hope that it works and thus I am wrong about the parts I disagree with.
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"If it works" = "it does what it is supposed to do"?
If so, then I hope it does not work. Any short-term beneft will be more than offset by the long-term detriment.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Considering the state of the domestic and world economy, do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

In the end, all I care about until we get out of this economic crisis is that who ever gets their way in terms of public policy is proven right even if I disagree with them.
Click to expand...

Not so much because sometimes the ends do not justify the means. I think that especially with economic collapse, there are several ways to drive to solution and the way you take is very important and has a lot of bearing especially on government size and power on the other side. So it's important to take the correct path, any ol' path may get us out of economic crisis, but we may not be better off for it.
 
I sense a great parrallel between this bill and the previous administrations controversial decision, the Iraq War. The bill is staunchly opposed by conservatives and right-wingers in much the same way the Iraq War was opposed by liberals and other left wingers(the votes of democrats in Congress not withstanding), and both objects have been routinely opposed by libertarians.

So the fact that many on the left gave no support nor expressed any desire for the Iraq war to be successful, I think its ironic to ask the right if they would be willing to show any support or acknowledge any success of this "stimulus" bill.

Libertatians are the only ones with any equal footing on these two issues.
 
creativedreams said:
Many people already plaster whats suppose to be private for them all over the internet anyways....and are already exposed to people in almost everything they do so what difference would this make?

Only people with something disturbing to hide would disagree...true?
Click to expand...

Please tell me a post like this is meant to do nothing more than bait?

I GIVE what information I feel proper. I will not stand by while someone TAKES what information THEY feel proper.
 
Cephus said:
I disagree. Many parts of the stimulus bill are a complete waste of money, they will do nothing to help the economy, they're just porkbarrel projects to make politicians look good. Even if the bill overall helps the economy, that's no excuse for the many parts that are just garbage.
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Yeah. Like ATV trails? I'm sorry but the last thing I'm worried about in an economic crisis are ATV trails...... and I actually ride an ATV every once in a while. The spending in this bill is over the top. :agree
 
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