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Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

Do you think downloading movies and other content should be illegal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 27.8%

  • No

    Votes: 19 52.8%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 5 13.9%
  • Total voters
    36
Travelsonic said:
Hmm..

Those who chose to distribute their copyrighted works for free would like to talk to you.

Stop generalizing. :spin:
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OMG, where the hell did you come from? :roll: :doh
 
It's like arguing with those people who insist they're not legally obligated to pay taxes.
 
American said:
OMG, where the hell did you come from? :roll: :doh
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Yeah, I wondered the same thing.

It was as random as his argument for legalizing the stealing of intellectual property.

:lol::lol::lol:
 
Harshaw said:
But they do. And they do for the simple reason that profiting from a work is a great incentive to create that work.
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Yes, and the profit from innovating in a free society is having the first-to-market advantage. Stifling adoption of this advancement via monopoly is criminal.

No. You said there's no such thing as intellectual property. You're wrong. The Constitution recognizes it, along with all sorts of other rights.
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"Intellectual property" is a code-word for veto power over my real property rights.

As is true with any set of laws, including any other property laws.
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And? What's the point of this forum anyway? Everyone should just bend over and take whatever the government gives them. The state is always right.


No, appeals to FALSE authority are not. Besides, what's "Western society" but an authority?
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I appeal to basic economic principles, not to force.
 
Defensor said:
Yes, and the profit from innovating in a free society is having the first-to-market advantage. Stifling adoption of this advancement via monopoly is criminal.


"Intellectual property" is a code-word for veto power over my real property rights.


And? What's the point of this forum anyway? Everyone should just bend over and take whatever the government gives them. The state is always right.



I appeal to basic economic principles, not to force.
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First, you're talking about intellectual property. That differs from, say orange juice. Metallica's songs are different from Mariah Carey's which differs from Weird Al's. They're not fungible like OJ is. First to market? Like two artists are going to create the exact same song?

Stop back tomorrow morning when you sober up and re-read this.

"code word for veto power over my real property rights"? Can you explain this? Wait - you can't. Right, buy a book and look up "monopoly". :roll:

The government has nothing to do with it. I'd ask you to explain that also - in fact, I have a couple times.

I hope you live on the west coast where my kids are far from.
 
Travelsonic said:
And you call me clueless?

Ignorant of the week award for sure.
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Ah so you have clue what I'm talking about but still open your silly mouth? Have fun arguing that you're not stealing the work of other people.
 
Defensor said:
Yes, and the profit from innovating in a free society is having the first-to-market advantage.
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What, so as soon as the first copy is sold, that's it? That's utterly asinine.


Stifling adoption of this advancement via monopoly is criminal.
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"Criminal" is a matter of law. You know, that thing you said I couldn't "appeal" to?


"Intellectual property" is a code-word for veto power over my real property rights.
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And what "property rights" of yours are "stifled" by not allowing you to copy and distribute the songs on the CD you bought?

Nothing says you can't sell the CD itself. If your argument is that you bought a physical object, then that's all you bought, and that's all you have the right to sell.


And? What's the point of this forum anyway? Everyone should just bend over and take whatever the government gives them. The state is always right.
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Are you saying the state is always wrong?


I appeal to basic economic principles, not to force.
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Any enforcement of property rights of any kind comes from force.
 
Here's the obvious problem with stealing music:

Music has been priced exorbitantly highly AND everyone hates the music industry.

I can't think of a single band that I listen to that I'm not absolutely sure would be cool with me stealing their music.

Of course the corporate bags of douche, the ruiners of music, the destroyers of integrity and the rapists of talent would undoubtedly bemoan me denying their precious whorepay.

So what I do is create categories.

The first category is "**** music that I feel no problem with dling for free", this is crappy pop singles. I'm not going to give the corporate douchebag that's responsible for "single ladies" a cent. I'm embarrassed to admit it I do possesses it but there's now way I'm going to PAY for it.

The second category is "established bands that would be cool with it anyway." I just can't imagine Henry Rollins being pissed with me for dling the discography of Black Flag, and if he is he's a hypocrite and a poseur.

Bringing us to the third category "new bands I want to support". I buy their CDs at shows.
 
What people do not seem to get is that when you buy music, movies etc. You agree to the contract that usually comes in the form of those 30 second clips that tell you something along the lines of 'Making illegal copies of this DVD, CD etc. is illegal under laws X,Y & Z'.
 
Harshaw said:
What, so as soon as the first copy is sold, that's it? That's utterly asinine.
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If another is able to more efficiently produce and market a product, then the original developer deserves to lose market share. That's how markets work. Reward success, punish failure.

"Criminal" is a matter of law. You know, that thing you said I couldn't "appeal" to?
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As in what law? The government's law?

And what "property rights" of yours are "stifled" by not allowing you to copy and distribute the songs on the CD you bought?
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I just explained this a few pages ago.

If I own a CD with songs that I purchased, and I choose to copy it onto a disc that I own using a computer that I own and then share that copy in a private voluntary exchange, I am exercising my private property rights. What the fraud that is "intellectual property" does is allow others to dictate to me what I can do with my own property. The very concept of IP is anathema to property rights.

Nothing says you can't sell the CD itself. If your argument is that you bought a physical object, then that's all you bought, and that's all you have the right to sell.
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But I own the CD as much as the original producer did before he sold it to me.


Are you saying the state is always wrong?
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The state is inherently wrong since it is a parasitic entity that eats away at freedom.

Any enforcement of property rights of any kind comes from force.
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That is not the issue. The issue is whether property rights exist in this case in the first place. In the case of IP, they do not, thus it is not a legitimate justification for the use of force.
 
new coup for you said:
Here's the obvious problem with stealing music:

Music has been priced exorbitantly highly AND everyone hates the music industry.
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Opinion.

I can't think of a single band that I listen to that I'm not absolutely sure would be cool with me stealing their music.
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Opinion. Which would become fact if those bands allowed you to download their music straight from them i.e. their website or gave their CDs out for free. And if they don't then they're obviously not cool with you stealing it.

Of course the corporate bags of douche, the ruiners of music, the destroyers of integrity and the rapists of talent would undoubtedly bemoan me denying their precious whorepay.
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Opinion.

So what I do is create categories.
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This should be good.

The first category is "**** music that I feel no problem with dling for free", this is crappy pop singles. I'm not going to give the corporate douchebag that's responsible for "single ladies" a cent. I'm embarrassed to admit it I do possesses it but there's now way I'm going to PAY for it.

The second category is "established bands that would be cool with it anyway." I just can't imagine Henry Rollins being pissed with me for dling the discography of Black Flag, and if he is he's a hypocrite and a poseur.

Bringing us to the third category "new bands I want to support". I buy their CDs at shows.
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Download from those you want to support. Steal from those you don't. I guess I should steal from Best Buy and buy cheaply at mom & pops tech stores(they exist). The problem with your argument is that in the end you want it all by paying the least amount possible. Would you also steal bottle water if you don't feel it's worth the $1.25? I mean why not? You shouldn't have to pay for water that basically comes out of the tap. Your argument is full of holes and riddled in hypocrisy.
 
First of all a lot of good bands are providing their albums for free now. The problem is that most of the music I listen to is from the 80s, when record labels were in an extraordinarily powerful position. Do you think the guys in Bad Brains wanted to be on some record label? Of course not, but the technology hadn't come around yet to let them circumvent the label system. Now it has, but all the work of older bands are still controlled by the scum bags.

Again, all the bands I listen to would be cool with me ripping off their former corporate tyrants. Would Gangsta G the ****ty top 40 rapper? No, but he's completely **** and deserves to be punished for ruining pop culture.

The difference between stealing a bottle of water and stealing an album is that the album has basically already been stolen by a gang of scruple-less thieves, I'm just stealing it back.
 
Hatuey said:
Funny. A book called 'Against Intellectual Property' being sold.
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And this is funny how? Paper, ink, and printer usage aren't free.
 
new coup for you said:
First of all a lot of good bands are providing their albums for free now.
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Great for them. Others are not. Explain to me why you should be allowed to illegally download those of the ones that don't offer it for free.

The problem is that most of the music I listen to is from the 80s, when record labels were in an extraordinarily powerful position. Do you think the guys in Bad Brains wanted to be on some record label? Of course not, but the technology hadn't come around yet to let them circumvent the label system. Now it has, but all the work of older bands are still controlled by the scum bags.
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Sucks for them if they signed a contract where they gave the rights to their music away. Nobody forced them to and all you're doing is crying about how your favorite artists ****ed up their own careers to the point where 20 years after the end of the 80s they still aren't making any real money from their music.

Again, all the bands I listen to would be cool with me ripping off their former corporate tyrants.
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O.P.I.N.I.O.N.

Would Gangsta G the ****ty top 40 rapper? No, but he's completely **** and deserves to be punished for ruining pop culture.
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More Opinion? NCFY. Please spare me the opinion and come up with a coherent argument as to why you should be allowed to steal the music of artists who don't offer it for free.

The difference between stealing a bottle of water and stealing an album is that the album has basically already been stolen by a gang of scruple-less thieves, I'm just stealing it back.
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All Opinion.

Definition of stealing :

steal - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

1 a: to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b: to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c: to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss> d: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>
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Those bands you claim to be victims signed legal contracts nobody forced them to sign. They weren't held at gunpoint and told to put their names on the dotted line or get their brains splattered on it. They agreed to become parts of the machine. Whether you think they were forced because otherwise they wouldn't have become as successful is pure opinion. The fact of the matter is that they still did it. It's not like they showed up into a corporate board room and told to start signing papers without reading them. Now cry me a river about how they got screwed for being dust heads.
 
Captain Obvious said:
The Ludwig von Mises Institute.

It's clear - you're a confused college kid.

Hang in there. man - it will make sense at some point.
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No, I'm afraid people who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to engage in an intellectual debate will never make sense to me. But go on Cap'n, you are good for a laugh.
 
Defensor said:
And this is funny how? Paper, ink, and printer usage aren't free.
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Neither is programming, movie making or the production of music. :lol:

I'll wait for your entire world to come crashing down at the thought of how badly you just destroyed your argument.

:2wave:
 
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Defensor said:
No, I'm afraid people who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to engage in an intellectual debate will never make sense to me. But go on Cap'n, you are good for a laugh.
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Critical thinking skills?

You're trying to defend stealing from someone else and you're suggesting I lack "critical thinking skills". By posting some links to some socialist bull**** and whacky ideology? By tossing around terms you don't understand, but can't explain because you're not capable of doing so?

Sorry, you lose.

Thanks for playing, though.
 
Hatuey said:
Neither is programming, movie making or the production of music. :lol:

I'll wait for your entire world to come crashing down at the thought of how badly you just destroyed your argument.
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And? Nobody here has argued that movie studios should give away free DVDs. Nice try though.
 
Defensor said:
If another is able to more efficiently produce and market a product, then the original developer deserves to lose market share. That's how markets work. Reward success, punish failure.
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That is right, but that isn't what is occurring. There is no market or marketing involved when people steal another's work.



Defensor said:
If I own a CD with songs that I purchased, and I choose to copy it onto a disc that I own using a computer that I own and then share that copy in a private voluntary exchange, I am exercising my private property rights. What the fraud that is "intellectual property" does is allow others to dictate to me what I can do with my own property. The very concept of IP is anathema to property rights.


But I own the CD as much as the original producer did before he sold it to me.
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:doh
And that is where your problem rests.
You do not own the music, the movie or the right to distribute them.
 
Defensor said:
And? Nobody here has argued that movie studios should give away free DVDs. Nice try though.
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What stupidity. You're not paying for a DVD. You're paying for what's inside the DVD. Just like you're not paying for ink and paper. You're paying for what was done with that ink and paper. Try A-****ing-Gain. Or better yet. Take offense at how stupid I think you are for believing you're paying for ink and paper and not a book.
 
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