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Do You Believe in Creationism?

Do You Belive In Creationsm?


  • Total voters
    54
That is not necessarily a fact.
You may think you hve $1 in your hands, but you may very well not.
But, ignoring that...
I accepted a $1 bill from a cashier, carried the dollar bill in my pocket for a week, pulled it our of my wallet, and literally handed it to another person. That whole time I never actually had a $1 dollar bill in my hands?

You HAD a dollar bill. Past tense.

But the fact that I have a dollar has now changed to "had". Which goes against Tucker's claim that "There are no changes of fact.".
 
I accepted a $1 bill from a cashier, carried the dollar bill in my pocket for a week, pulled it our of my wallet, and literally handed it to another person. That whole time I never actually had a $1 dollar bill in my hands?
Have you seen The Matrix?

Knowledge gained thru obervation is not knowledge, it is inference.

But the fact that I have a dollar has now changed to "had". Which goes against Tucker's claim that "There are no changes of fact.".
That you gave the $ to someone doesn't change the fact that you did all those other things with that $.

Now, if the $ wasnt really there, it means that the 'fact' that you did all those things with that $ are not actually facts.
 
Have you seen The Matrix?

Knowledge gained thru obervation is not knowledge, it is inference.

Now, if the $ wasnt really there, it means that the 'fact' that you did all those things with that $ are not actually facts.

All of this is moot if you are going to take the cop-out that we and everything we do is just some illusion and not facts.
 
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All of this is moot if you are going to take the cop-out that we and everything we do is just some illusion and not facts.
And your statement, above, donent address my response to your illustratiuon:

That you gave the $ to someone -doesn't- change the fact that you did all those other things with that $.

Now...
Not having actually HAD the $ WOULD change the fact that you did all those other things with that $ -- in fact, it would mean that doing those things was NOT a fact.
 
But the fact that I have a dollar has now changed to "had". Which goes against Tucker's claim that "There are no changes of fact.".

If you have a dollar, the real fact is not that "you have a dollar" it is really that "You have a dollar until such time as you no longer have a dollar".

The fact is that possesion of said dllar is temporary, not permanent.

Giving away said dollar does not alter the fact because the full fact includes the temporary nature of said fact.

In essence, facts do not change. Reality can change, but true facts will already take that into account. ;)
 
That you gave the $ to someone -doesn't- change the fact that you did all those other things with that $.
So does the fact that I have a dollar change when I give my last dollar to someone else?

Now...
Not having actually HAD the $ WOULD change the fact that you did all those other things with that $ -- in fact, it would mean that doing those things was NOT a fact.
You can't change the scenario to make your point. As I said, I did HAVE a dollar.
 
If you have a dollar, the real fact is not that "you have a dollar" it is really that "You have a dollar until such time as you no longer have a dollar".

The fact is that possesion of said dllar is temporary, not permanent.

Giving away said dollar does not alter the fact because the full fact includes the temporary nature of said fact.

In essence, facts do not change. Reality can change, but true facts will already take that into account. ;)

So nothing is a fact as we can never know what the fact really is since what we see today as fact can change tomorrow?

You say evolution is not a fact but it could be proven as a fact 100 years from now and thus your fact that evolution is not a fact is just a temporary state of reality as well.
 
So does the fact that I have a dollar change when I give my last dollar to someone else?
It means you no longer have that dollar.
It doesnt mean you didn't have the dollar.

You're asking me if the fact that your eyes are now closed changes the fact that your eyes were open before you closed them. The answer is no.

You can't change the scenario to make your point. As I said, I did HAVE a dollar.
I was using that as an example of what would change the 'fact' that you had a dollar.
 
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So if I no longer have a dollar would you say it is still a fact that "I have a dollar"?
No.
But not having a dollar today doesn't change the fact that you did have one yesterday.
 
Great, so facts do change. Thanks.

Are you still not getting it?

The fact is you had a dollar, this will never ever change. Just because today you do not have the same dollar is irrelevant to the fact that you did.
 
Are you still not getting it?

The fact is you had a dollar, this will never ever change. Just because today you do not have the same dollar is irrelevant to the fact that you did.

Please attempt to follow the conversation before you join in, especially if your point is to be condescending.

My conversation with Goobieman showed that Tucker Case's point that facts do not change was semi-inaccurate. Me having a dollar was a fact at the time and now it is not, which is a change of fact.

I say "semi" because from Tucker Case's mentality that fact that "I have a dollar" never actually existed as it was a temporary state of reality and not really a fact. To follow this though we must accept that nothing we say or do is indeed a fact until 100% hindsight is achieved.
 
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So nothing is a fact as we can never know what the fact really is since what we see today as fact can change tomorrow?

Not even remotely close to what I said.

I pointed out that the FACT involved the temporary nature of the event ("you have a dollar" relates only to the point in time at which it was spoken) Saying I have a dollar is not a permanent state nor does it imply having said dollar in the future.



You say evolution is not a fact but it could be proven as a fact 100 years from now and thus your fact that evolution is not a fact is just a temporary state of reality as well.

If you aren't going to actually pay attention to what I say, don't comment on it, gibberish.

I said "It may, in fact, be a fact" in response to Goobieman right off the bat.

If it is a fact, it is a fact and it would have always been a fact.

If it is not a fact, then it is not a fact and it would have never been a fact.

What we discover 100 years form now is totally irrelevant to teh veracity of evolution today.

The "theory" of evolution may in fact, BE a fact, as I first said. What we discover in the future will not change this.



And pot meet kettle:

Please attempt to follow the conversation before you join in, especially if your point is to be condescending.


I quote you for your sake. Take the time to digest your own statements and self-apply them.



My conversation with Goobieman showed that Tucker Case's point that facts do not change was semi-inaccurate. Me having a dollar was a fact at the time and now it is not, which is a change of fact.

You fail to understand my positiona and you have yet to show my poits are innacurate. You've played word games and failed to provide a single logical support for your argument.

In FACT, my position it 100% accurate. Facts do not change. This will be illustrated soon enough.


I say "semi" because from Tucker Case's mentality that fact that "I have a dollar" never actually existed as it was a temporary state of reality and not really a fact. To follow this though we must accept that nothing we say or do is indeed a fact until 100% hindsight is achieved.

I have a dollar is present tense pertaining to the moment it is speoken and nothing more.

Let's say that you state "I have a dollar" right at this instant, what you are really saying is. "I have a dollar at 5:41 on Feb 16, 2009."

It doesn't mean jack-**** if you give away the dollar three days from now, the FACT remains that you had a dollar at 5:41 on Feb 16, 2009.

Reality may changes, but the FACT remains the same AND NEVER CHANGES.

Another fact that is extant at 5:41 on Feb 16, 2009 is that you will continue to HAVE said dollar until such time as it leaves your possession, at which point the fact will be that you do NOT have said dollar.

Explain to me how on Earth these fact can change simply because at some later time you give the dollar away? Would you NOT have had the dollar at 5:41 on Feb 16, 2009 if that happens?

Of course not. Because facts CAN'T CHANGE.

It is the truth regardless of what happens later, word games aside.

Now, without playing word games (tense shifting, etc), please show me a single example of a fact that has ever, in the history of mankind, changed.
 
Have you seen The Matrix?

Knowledge gained thru obervation is not knowledge, it is inference.

And assuming that The Matrix is actually just a movie then evolution is the best we have to go with and the most likely explanation for the origin of species.
 
Great, so facts do change. Thanks.

What fact changes? You had a dollar on Feb 15 2009. (Which was today, yesterday)

Giving the dollar away doesn't change that fact. You will ALWAYS have had that dollar on Feb 15, 2009.

Saying today doesn't make it accurate. Today is an amorphous idea representing the current day.

Saying "I have a dollar today" literally means "I have a dollar on Feb 16, 2009". It doesn't imply anything more than that.


Stop playing word games.
 
And assuming that The Matrix is actually just a movie then evolution is the best we have to go with and the most likely explanation for the origin of species.

Have you ever considered that it COULD all be an illusion?

After all, if YOU do not exist, nothing exists. To you I mean..
 
What fact changes? You had a dollar on Feb 15. (Which was today, yesterday)

Giving the dollar away doesn't change that fact.

Saying today doesn't make it accurate. Today is an amorphous idea representing the current day.

Saying "I have a dollar today" literally means "I have a dollar on Feb 16, 2009". It doesn't imply anything more than that.


Stop playing word games.

Awww, but what can we infer from that? If he does indeed have a dollar it must have come from somewhere correct? Its likely he has a job and worked for his money at some prior time. It's very unlikely that the dollar was magicked into his hand by a bearded man in the sky.
 
Have you ever considered that it COULD all be an illusion?

After all, if YOU do not exist, nothing exists. To you I mean..

You know it's getting a little ****ed up. The likelihood of that possibility is very slim. I'll go with what I can observe.
 
Awww, but what can we infer from that? If he does indeed have a dollar it must have come from somewhere correct? Its likely he has a job and worked for his money at some prior time. It's very unlikely that the dollar was magicked into his hand by a bearded man in the sky.

He might have found it, begged for it, stole it, or any number of other things.
 
You know it's getting a little ****ed up. The likelihood of that possibility is very slim. I'll go with what I can observe.

Perhaps the world and everyone in it is just suited to create your own reality? Do you believe in the everlasting soul and immortal (non earth) life?

Afterall we are just brains, and the brain could be the physical version of you(just as the flesh if your reality) in this life as a immortal soul in some other reality. Do you rather believe in flesh and heart than brain and soul?
 
Perhaps the world and everyone in it is just suited to create your own reality?
It very well may be.

Do you believe in the everlasting soul and immortal (non earth) life?
No.

Afterall we are just brains, and the brain could be the physical version of you in this life as a immortal soul in some other reality.
Since I have no way of proving or disproving this I'll go with what can actually be observed.

Do you rather believe in flesh and heart than brain and soul?

I believe in flesh, heart, and brain of course. The soul? Some intangible quality that can not be proven, dis proven, or observed? No, I don't believe in that.
 
I believe in flesh, heart, and brain of course. The soul? Some intangible quality that can not be proven, dis proven, or observed? No, I don't believe in that.

I do, believe in my own immortal soul.. But then again, I also believe in God, and you don't(as far as I have understood).
 
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