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Should adultery be a criminal offense punishable by jailtime?

Should adultery be a criminal offense punishable by jailtime?

  • Obviously! It should carry MMS and strict for 2nd++ offense..

    Votes: 2 3.1%

  • Yes, jailtime.

    Votes: 2 3.1%

  • Yah, first fine, then jail, mild jail time.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Hmm.. Perhaps..

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No..

    Votes: 57 87.7%

  • Something else(explain).

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Total voters
    65
Status
Not open for further replies.
scourge99 said:
No one has said its ok. Its just that hurting someones feelings isn't an offense that warrants criminal punishment.
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Why does it have to be about feelings instead of something legitimate?

I haven't seen anyone argue that adultery should be criminal because it would hurt someone's feelings, so why are you assuming that's the counter argument you need to address?
 
Jerry said:
Why does it have to be about feelings instead of something legitimate?

I haven't seen anyone argue that adultery should be criminal because it would hurt someone's feelings, so why are you assuming that's the counter argument you need to address?
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Actually, several people have argued just that. No one has offered this "legit" reason you mystically speak of but never enlighten us with.
 
rivrrat said:
No, it doesn't. The families ruin their families. Many couples remain together despite cheating partners. Many families are ruined even without cheating. And, not all married people have kids anyway.

The cheating is a symptom of a problem in the relationship. It can either be fixed, or not. It's up to the individuals IN THE RELATIONSHIP to decide what to do. Not you. And certainly not the state.

In many cases, the marriage breakup is the best thing for everyone in it.
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It can not be overstated just how full of **** you are.
 
rivrrat said:
Actually, several people have argued just that. No one has offered this "legit" reason you mystically speak of but never enlighten us with.
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I did, though...you missed it?
 
Jerry said:
It can not be overstated just how full of **** you are.
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Sooo... the people involved in a family don't "ruin" their family? Who does? Who could ruin a relationship if not the people IN the relationship?

Jerry said:
I did, though...you missed it?
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Apparently. Me and everyone else.
 
scourge99 said:
No one has said its ok. Its just that hurting someones feelings isn't an offense that warrants criminal punishment.
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It is more than just, "hurting someones feelings" :rofl

Look, if neither you or rivrat are prepared to be honest about that, then just move on.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Adultery RUINS families, not just feelings. Its so wrong to think it just hurts feelings.
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No, Max. Just, no.

DIVORCE ruins families. Adultery might ruin, or at the very least severely affect the relationship between the two married partners, but it only ruins the family if they choose to end the marriage as a result. I can't count the number of couples I know who have gotten over adultery for the sake of keeping the family together.
 
rivrrat said:
Actually, several people have argued just that. No one has offered this "legit" reason you mystically speak of but never enlighten us with.
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I have... and you know it. These little games, I swear :roll:
 
scourge99 said:
On top of the precedent this would set for civil contracts:

I'm a strong believer that the gov't shouldn't do anything that's not absolutely necessary (I usually describe such as a "compelling interest"); limited/small gov't. So I'm very paranoid when people want to expand the gov't and spend more tax payer money at the drop of a hat for something of questionable effect. That's all.
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In truth, I would only support it if it were paid for by the couple as part of teh divorce proceedings.
 
rivrrat said:
Sooo... the people involved in a family don't "ruin" their family? Who does? Who could ruin a relationship if not the people IN the relationship?
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Holy ****ing **** this is retarded...

If I say that the adulterer and the one that they cheated with are selfish and ruined the family and you say that it is "The families ruin their families" then you are saying that it is the family as a unit that contributed to ruining the family, so it is obvious that you are not saying the same thing since you made the ****ing distinction.

I swear, on this topic you are so full of ****. Like I said before, it is about justifying your selfish behavior so that you don't feel like a homewrecking *****.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
I have... and you know it. These little games, I swear :roll:
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What games are you talking about?

Bodhisattva said:
Holy ****ing **** this is retarded...
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We finally agree. :mrgreen: Your argument IS retarded.

If I say that the adulterer and the one that they cheated with are selfish
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Of course they are selfish. Not unlike everyone else in the world.

and ruined the family and you say that it is "The families ruin their families" then you are saying that it is the family as a unit that contributed to ruining the family, so it is obvious that you are not saying the same thing since you made the ****ing distinction.
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Family, relationship... same thing. I used the words interchangeably, I'm sorry if that confused you. I consider my partner to be my family. I consider a husband and wife to be a family. I consider a married couple with kids to be a family. I consider a unmarried couple with kids to be a family. I also consider all of those to be relationships too. So, when I say the participants of the family did their own family in, it is the same as saying the participants in a relationship did the relationship in.

Regardless. Cheating doesn't "ruin a family" or "ruin a relationship". How the participants deal with it DOES.

I swear, on this topic you are so full of ****. Like I said before, it is about justifying your selfish behavior so that you don't feel like a homewrecking tramp.
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:rofl:rofl

To whom do you think I need to justify my behavior? To YOU? :lol: You're kidding, right?

I'll sleep with whomever I ****ing want to sleep with, whenever I ****ing want to do it, and I don't need to "justify" my reasons for doing so to ANYONE. However, my actions have nothing to do with any problems in anyone elses relationships. Only the participants IN a relationship can **** up their own relationship. The only relationships I can **** up, are my own.

Oh, and of course my actions are selfish, why else would I engage in them? Everyone's actions are inherently selfish. So, tossing the word around like it's some kind of insult is fairly useless, dear.
 
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Arcana XV said:
No, Max. Just, no.

DIVORCE ruins families. Adultery might ruin, or at the very least severely affect the relationship between the two married partners, but it only ruins the family if they choose to end the marriage as a result. I can't count the number of couples I know who have gotten over adultery for the sake of keeping the family together.
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Precisely.
 
rivrrat said:
We finally agree. :mrgreen: Your argument IS retarded.
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Uh-huh...


Of course they are selfish. Not unlike everyone else in the world.
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Everyone and every action is not selfish... Otherwise, now this is really and truly simply, mind you, they would not have this other word... can't quite recall what it is OH YEAH! SelfLESS

selfless
   /ˈsɛlflɪs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [self-lis] Show IPA
–adjective having little or no concern for oneself, esp. with regard to fame, position, money, etc.; unselfish.

selfless definition | Dictionary.com

I think that you need to look past the darkness and see the big world that is out there. Don't be afraid...


Family, relationship... same thing. I used the words interchangeably, I'm sorry if that confused you.
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It didn't confuse me. You made a distinction. There was no need to make a distinction if we were saying the same thing. If I say the "adutlerer" and you say the "family" then they are both one and the same, as long as the adulterer is a part of the family regardless of how you define it. The distinction that you made clearly indicated that you don't think that it is NT the fault of the cheater/adulterer, but... now here is the justification part that you never seem to get, but it is the fault of the "family".

It is the "family" and how the "family" reacts that ruins the marriage/relationship. You are taking the responsibility off of the adulterer/cheater and spreading it around. You are blaming the wife/husband and even blaming the kids! THIS is the justification and refusal to be responsible thingy that you never acknowledge, and I am sure that you wont here either...



Regardless. Cheating doesn't "ruin a family" or "ruin a relationship". How the participants deal with it DOES.
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Precious! :lol:

Nobody ever said that "cheating" ruined the ****ing family.
You keep making this lame assertion that this is my argument.

I say that the adulterer ruins the family by engaging in selfish actions that will most likely be viewed as untrustworthy, and as evidence of a betrayal... thus grounds for a divorce.

The "adutlerer" ruins the family.
...not the wife/husband innocent of the crime/indiscretion
...not the kids innocent of the crime/indiscretion

THE ADULTERER.

Do -- you -- understand?


:rofl:rofl

To whom do you think I need to justify my behavior? To YOU? :lol: You're kidding, right?
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No. Jesus, is the psych 101? To yourself.
I know that you are selfish and proud of it.
I know you don't care about what I think.
I don't think that people should be concerned about what other people think anyway...

What you should be concerned about is this:

Do your actions hurt others?

Adulterery and being the "other woman" hurts others if these actions lead to the breakup of the existing family. Look, you just don't get it. Seriously... I a mnot gonna get dragged into your illogical little fantasy again where you think that you can justify adulterery as a trustworthy and responsible action. The last time you tried to pass that **** off was enough...



I'll sleep with whomever I ****ing want to sleep with, whenever I ****ing want to do it, and I don't need to "justify" my reasons for doing so to ANYONE. However, my actions have nothing to do with any problems in anyone elses relationships. Only the participants IN a relationship can **** up their own relationship. The only relationships I can **** up, are my own.
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If a problem in the relationship is that the husband is cheating on his wife with you, then your actions are logically having something to do with the problems in their relationship. Denial is not your friend.


Oh, and of course my actions are selfish, why else would I engage in them? Everyone's actions are inherently selfish. So, tossing the word around like it's some kind of insult is fairly useless, dear.
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Asked and answered.

Selfless, think about it. People that love something more than themselves understand this. A parent knows this when they jump into certain death in order to save their child. A Marine or soldier knows this when they jump on a grenade to save their fellow soldiers. Lots of people know this... but apparently you are not one of them.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
Everyone and every action is not selfish... Otherwise, now this is really and truly simply, mind you, they would not have this other word... can't quite recall what it is OH YEAH! SelfLESS

selfless
   /ˈsɛlflɪs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [self-lis] Show IPA
–adjective having little or no concern for oneself, esp. with regard to fame, position, money, etc.; unselfish.

selfless definition | Dictionary.com
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This debate has been had on this forum, and not one person was able to define a single, purely selfless act. Not one.

It didn't confuse me. You made a distinction. There was no need to make a distinction if we were saying the same thing. If I say the "adutlerer" and you say the "family" then they are both one and the same, as long as the adulterer is a part of the family regardless of how you define it. The distinction that you made clearly indicated that you don't think that it is NT the fault of the cheater/adulterer, but... now here is the justification part that you never seem to get, but it is the fault of the "family".
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It's the fault of the people in the relationship, yes. A relationship doesn't fall apart due to the actions of one person.

It is the "family" and how the "family" reacts that ruins the marriage/relationship. You are taking the responsibility off of the adulterer/cheater and spreading it around. You are blaming the wife/husband and even blaming the kids! THIS is the justification and refusal to be responsible thingy that you never acknowledge, and I am sure that you wont here either...
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Where is this refusal to be responsible? The cheater lies and commits and untrustworthy act that probably hurts their spouse. That act does not destroy the relationship. How they deal with it does. Otherwise, relationships wouldn't survive.

Nobody ever said that "cheating" ruined the ****ing family.
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Yes actually, Maximus most certainly did.

I say that the adulterer ruins the family by engaging in selfish actions that will most likely be viewed as untrustworthy, and as evidence of a betrayal... thus grounds for a divorce.
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Sure, if the person cheated on decides that the relationship isn't worth saving. Then the relationship ends due to both of their actions. The actions that precipitated the cheating, the cheating, and the actions after the cheating - engaged in by both parties.

The "adutlerer" ruins the family.
...not the wife/husband innocent of the crime/indiscretion
...not the kids innocent of the crime/indiscretion

THE ADULTERER.

Do -- you -- understand?
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No, because too many relationships withstand cheating to make that kind of assertion. It makes no logical sense. How they HANDLE the cheating together is what determines if the relationship is ruined.

What you should be concerned about is this:

Do your actions hurt others?
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Sometimes, yes they do. That is inevitable. Every time I turn a guy down. Every time I have broken up with someone. Every time I go out with someone that someone else still has feelings for. Every time I got the job that someone else was wanting. Every time I don't do exactly what someone asks of me. There is no way to go through life and not hurt others.

Adulterery and being the "other woman" hurts others if these actions lead to the breakup of the existing family. Look, you just don't get it. Seriously... I a mnot gonna get dragged into your illogical little fantasy again where you think that you can justify adulterery as a trustworthy and responsible action. The last time you tried to pass that **** off was enough...
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Who said cheating was trustworthy and responsible? When did I EVER say that? It's lying. It's cheating. It's untrustworthy, and it's wrong to do, IMO. But that doesn't mean for a second that I think it should be illegal to hurt someone's feelings.

However, as the "other woman", I made no promises to anyone. Thus, I have broken no promises and have not done anything "untrustworthy".

If a problem in the relationship is that the husband is cheating on his wife with you, then your actions are logically having something to do with the problems in their relationship. Denial is not your friend.
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Incorrect. The problems existed prior to the cheating.

Selfless, think about it. People that love something more than themselves understand this. A parent knows this when they jump into certain death in order to save their child. A Marine or soldier knows this when they jump on a grenade to save their fellow soldiers. Lots of people know this... but apparently you are not one of them.
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None of those are purely selfless acts. The self is involved, otherwise the action could not be taken. It's impossible to be completely selfless. I have risked my life many a time to save those of complete strangers and friends alike. My actions were not selfless. My self was very much involved in the decision making process. My actions were willful, thought out, deliberate. I did them because I wanted to. Ergo, not selfless. Ditto for a your marine or parent.
 
rivrrat said:
This debate has been had on this forum, and not one person was able to define a single, purely selfless act. Not one.
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Well, I did.


It's the fault of the people in the relationship, yes. A relationship doesn't fall apart due to the actions of one person.
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You are trying to be cute...
The relationship falls apart because of the cheating actions of the adulterer.
The marriage ends in divorce as a result of it falling apart.
Nice try though...



Where is this refusal to be responsible? The cheater lies and commits and untrustworthy act that probably hurts their spouse. That act does not destroy the relationship. How they deal with it does. Otherwise, relationships wouldn't survive.
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Last time you would not admit that it was untrustworthy...
This time you have. I guess that progress CAN be made.


Yes actually, Maximus most certainly did.
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Fine, but I really meant us in an exasperated manner...


Sure, if the person cheated on decides that the relationship isn't worth saving. Then the relationship ends due to both of their actions. The actions that precipitated the cheating, the cheating, and the actions after the cheating - engaged in by both parties.
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Nope. It ends due to the actions of the adulterer, since most people feel that being cheated on automatically ends the relationship/marriage.

The marriage is over before the divorce papers are signed.


No, because too many relationships withstand cheating to make that kind of assertion. It makes no logical sense. How they HANDLE the cheating together is what determines if the relationship is ruined.
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If you cheat on me, the relationship is over.
Once you do it, it is over no matter how long it takes to divorce.
The relationship is ruined the second you cheat.
Sorry, it is over and you ruined the relationship.


Sometimes, yes they do. That is inevitable. Every time I turn a guy down. Every time I have broken up with someone. Every time I go out with someone that someone else still has feelings for. Every time I got the job that someone else was wanting. Every time I don't do exactly what someone asks of me. There is no way to go through life and not hurt others.
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And it is how we handle hurting others that is the key.
You want to make excuses for behavior, that is not responsible.


Who said cheating was trustworthy and responsible? When did I EVER say that? It's lying. It's cheating. It's untrustworthy, and it's wrong to do, IMO. But that doesn't mean for a second that I think it should be illegal to hurt someone's feelings.
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You didn't, I did.
That being said, you just said it.

Last time you would not admit that it was untrustworthy...
This time you have. I guess that progress CAN be made.


However, as the "other woman", I made no promises to anyone. Thus, I have broken no promises and have not done anything "untrustworthy".
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trust (trst)
n.
1. Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person or thing.

We all trust one another not to do things every day.
I never said that I would not ram into your car with mine for fun.
Guess that after I do this action, I will still be considered trustworthy...



Incorrect. The problems existed prior to the cheating.
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Perhaps, and most likely, the problems only existed with the CHEATER/ADULTERER!
This is, again, your disconnect.


None of those are purely selfless acts. The self is involved, otherwise the action could not be taken. It's impossible to be completely selfless. I have risked my life many a time to save those of complete strangers and friends alike. My actions were not selfless. My self was very much involved in the decision making process. My actions were willful, thought out, deliberate. I did them because I wanted to. Ergo, not selfless. Ditto for a your marine or parent.
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Nothing can be selfless because the word selfish contains the word self? :rofl
Well, so does the word selfless! Even if that is not your argument, I would argue that foolishness with; no selfish act can take place, because the only type of action that there is is a selfless one.
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Bodhisattva said:
You are trying to be cute...
The relationship falls apart because of the cheating actions of the adulterer.
The marriage ends in divorce as a result of it falling apart.
Nice try though...
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No. The cheating happens because of problems in the relationship. Problems between BOTH parties. The relationship only ends if the parties think it should. Many times relationships survive adultery.

Last time you would not admit that it was untrustworthy...
This time you have. I guess that progress CAN be made.
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Bull****ing ****. The act of the cheating spouse is untrusthworthy, I NEVER said it wasn't.


Nope. It ends due to the actions of the adulterer, since most people feel that being cheated on automatically ends the relationship/marriage.
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No, it ends when the participants say it does. It ends according to the actions of BOTH of them and how they handle the problems.

The marriage is over before the divorce papers are signed.
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Then the marriage was already over prior to the cheating.


If you cheat on me, the relationship is over.
Once you do it, it is over no matter how long it takes to divorce.
The relationship is ruined the second you cheat.
Sorry, it is over and you ruined the relationship.
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And that is YOU. That is not ME. Nor is it anyone I can think of offhand.

But, I have a friend who would end the marriage if her spouse went to a strip club. All he has to do is LOOK at a nekkid woman and she'll end the marriage.

Hell, aps says she'd divorce her hubby if he started smoking. So, in light of what you're saying in this thread... should her hubby recieve jailtime if he takes up smoking and "ruins the relationship"?

Regardles, that's HER choice to do that. It's the participants choice whether or not to tolerate or work through certain behavior. YOU are not everyone. But, it's fair to say that your wife knows that if she cheats on you, you will divorce her. You could, however, choose NOT to end the marriage if she cheats. So, her actions are not the only actions to cause a divorce. YOUR reaction to what she does is really the deciding factor. The cheated on partner is the variable. THEIR reaction, their subsequent actions are the deciding factor.

And it is how we handle hurting others that is the key.
You want to make excuses for behavior, that is not responsible.
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What excuses?

You didn't, I did.
That being said, you just said it.

Last time you would not admit that it was untrustworthy...
This time you have. I guess that progress CAN be made.
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Again: Bull****ing ****. The act of the cheating spouse is untrusthworthy, I NEVER said it wasn't.


trust (trst)
n.
1. Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person or thing.

We all trust one another not to do things every day.
I never said that I would not ram into your car with mine for fun.
Guess that after I do this action, I will still be considered trustworthy...
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I don't trust you NOT to run into my car. So if you do, you've broken no trust of mine. Thus, you wouldn't be untrustworthy.


Perhaps, and most likely, the problems only existed with the CHEATER/ADULTERER!
This is, again, your disconnect.
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Doubtful, since there are two people in the relationship.

Nothing can be selfless because the word selfish contains the word self? :rofl
Well, so does the word selfless! Even if that is not your argument, I would argue that foolishness with; no selfish act can take place, because the only type of action that there is is a selfless one.
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That makes no sense hon. Do note what the "less" and "ish" suffixes mean. Self LESS... without self. There is no such thing as an action without the self. There are degrees of selfishness, for sure. But there is no such thing as a purely unselfish act. Everyone does what they do because they WANT to.
 
rivrrat said:
No. The cheating happens because of problems in the relationship. Problems between BOTH parties. The relationship only ends if the parties think it should. Many times relationships survive adultery.
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There are problems in every single relationship that exists.
Some major... some minor.

Problems betweem parents and kids, siblings, married fold, boyfirend/girlfriend, etc.

What you are doing to is make an excuse.

Oh gee, there is a problem so it is both of our fault that I **** another person and it is the family and kids fault that the marriage ends in divorce. I don't even want to waste a second addressing any of the rest, for this is the root of the entire issue...
 
Bodhisattva said:
There are problems in every single relationship that exists.
Some major... some minor.

Problems betweem parents and kids, siblings, married fold, boyfirend/girlfriend, etc.

What you are doing to is make an excuse.

Oh gee, there is a problem so it is both of our fault that I **** another person and it is the family and kids fault that the marriage ends in divorce. I don't even want to waste a second addressing any of the rest, for this is the root of the entire issue...
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No. What I said was, it's up to the person cheated on to decide if the marriage is over, or if it's worth saving. THEIR DECISION. The act of cheating does not end a relationship. The people involved in the relationship decide that after the act has occurred. Their reaction to the behavior of their spouse is what determines if the relationship is over. NOT the cheating.

It very well could be entirely the behavior of the cheated on spouse that made the cheater cheat. It could be that the wife refuses to have sex with the husband and refuses to give him a divorce. So he cheats. Who the **** knows? The whole point is that relationships are PERSONAL. There is no need for some all encompassing law that requires state involvement and punishment for hurting someone's feelings in a relationship. They are far too complicated and hurt feelings is no justification for incarceration.
 
rivrrat said:
No. What I said was, it's up to the person cheated on to decide if the marriage is over, or if it's worth saving. THEIR DECISION. The act of cheating does not end a relationship. The people involved in the relationship decide that after the act has occurred. Their reaction to the behavior of their spouse is what determines if the relationship is over. NOT the cheating.

It very well could be entirely the behavior of the cheated on spouse that made the cheater cheat. It could be that the wife refuses to have sex with the husband and refuses to give him a divorce. So he cheats. Who the **** knows? The whole point is that relationships are PERSONAL. There is no need for some all encompassing law that requires state involvement and punishment for hurting someone's feelings in a relationship. They are far too complicated and hurt feelings is no justification for incarceration.
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Here we go with the "hurt feelings" misrepresentation again... :lol:

And I love it... I truly love hearing a person say, "that made the cheater cheat."

... made the cheater cheat. Really, it's classic. Whatever riv... whatever....
 
Bodhisattva said:
Here we go with the "hurt feelings" misrepresentation again... :lol:

And I love it... I truly love hearing a person say, "that made the cheater cheat."

... made the cheater cheat. Really, it's classic. Whatever riv... whatever....
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Well, she does have a point. What would you do if your wife stopped having sex with you and refused to give you a divorce? Would you really become celibate until she finally changes her mind, which could take years?

I don't think rivrrat meant what she said as an excuse for cheating, but as a possible explanation why someone would feel compelled to cheat.

Only the two people involved know what's really going on in a marriage. This is why this whole making adultery criminal is such a retarded idea.
 
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Arcana XV said:
No, Max. Just, no.

DIVORCE ruins families. Adultery might ruin, or at the very least severely affect the relationship between the two married partners, but it only ruins the family if they choose to end the marriage as a result. I can't count the number of couples I know who have gotten over adultery for the sake of keeping the family together.
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Wow.. Amazing, just amazing.. And I guess adultery do not lead to divorce?
 
rivrrat said:
No. What I said was, it's up to the person cheated on to decide if the marriage is over, or if it's worth saving. THEIR DECISION. The act of cheating does not end a relationship. The people involved in the relationship decide that after the act has occurred. Their reaction to the behavior of their spouse is what determines if the relationship is over. NOT the cheating.

It very well could be entirely the behavior of the cheated on spouse that made the cheater cheat. It could be that the wife refuses to have sex with the husband and refuses to give him a divorce. So he cheats. Who the **** knows? The whole point is that relationships are PERSONAL. There is no need for some all encompassing law that requires state involvement and punishment for hurting someone's feelings in a relationship. They are far too complicated and hurt feelings is no justification for incarceration.
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And it should be their decision if they want to press charges against the person who committed the adultery. Giving them that possibility rather than not, is just fair.
 
Arcana XV said:
Please read my last sentence again.
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Well I think its retarded that our society just accepts adultery. Its wrong, and you know it. Whats retarded about giving people who have been cheated on the RIGHT to press charges against and have the adulterer punished?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Well I think its retarded that our society just accepts adultery. Its wrong, and you know it. Whats retarded about giving people who have been cheated on the RIGHT to press charges against and have the adulterer punished?
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:lol: Not THAT sentence. The one in the post you quoted earlier! :lol:

I said that many couples stay together even after one of them cheats. I don't have the statistics for every country, but where I live, adultery is not the main reason people get divorced. In fact, many seek counseling and not divorce after the adultery is discovered.
 
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