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Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  • Yes, it was.

    Votes: 18 41.9%

  • No, it wasn't.

    Votes: 25 58.1%
  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
Jerry said:
law.com Law Dictionary





Quoted from above:


The people who penned and signed the Constitution forming our seculer governement were decidly Christian:

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America


Christians using Christian concepts to form a Christian nation with a secular government.



The very Declaration of Independence was based on the authority of the Judeo-Christian God and rights God affords to Man.

So yes, America was founded as a Christian nation.
Click to expand...


Please, show me where there's the inclination that the Declaration of Independence is in reference to the "Judeo-Christian" God?


Natural law assumes that all people believe in the same Judeo-Christian God and thus share an understanding of natural law premises
Click to expand...

It is an assumption and not fact.

Please, also show me how the Ten Commandments and the United States Constitution compare. Here's a hint, there is no "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother".

It is apparent that the Constitution in itself is based on the "Golden Rule" which is not exclusively Christian. Infact, the entire American Nation is based on it. Laws are under the universal principle that all mens freedom are equal to all other mens freedom (equality), which is not an exclusive principle.

Okay that's a great list. I attend a Southern Baptist church while home, but that doesn't make me a believer in Christ. Infact I believe it is impoosible to "Know" go, and if you think that you actually "know" God then you are either claiming mans knowledge of the metaphysical world, or you are claiming that God is not of the metaphysical world.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Please, show me where there's the inclination that the Declaration of Independence is in reference to the "Judeo-Christian" God?

It is an assumption and not fact.

Please, also show me how the Ten Commandments and the United States Constitution compare. Here's a hint, there is no "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother".

It is apparent that the Constitution in itself is based on the "Golden Rule" which is not exclusively Christian. Infact, the entire American Nation is based on it. Laws are under the universal principle that all mens freedom are equal to all other mens freedom (equality), which is not an exclusive principle.

Okay that's a great list. I attend a Southern Baptist church while home, but that doesn't make me a believer in Christ. Infact I believe it is impoosible to "Know" go, and if you think that you actually "know" God then you are either claiming mans knowledge of the metaphysical world, or you are claiming that God is not of the metaphysical world.
Click to expand...

In the pursuit of the freedom to practice Christianity away from the arms of the Crown's national religion, group of traditional Christians get together and start talking about "Nature's God" and "Creator". Yet, even after these exact same Christians pen codified regulation praising "the many signal favors of Almighty God", you still have no idea if they're talking about any god or what God specifically they may have been referring to.

Nice.

I'm not sure you're worth my effort to quote Federalist papers, etc, to drive the point home. I would very much like you to provide counter evidence to oppose my argument.

Simply stating that you don't agree or don't understand does not prove my argument inaccurate.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I understand, but what I am getting at is that to say it was "founded on Christian principles" means that it was founded on principles exclusive to Christianity.

The true answer is that United States were founded on Universal Ethics.

There's quite a leap between the deism of the founding fathers and Christianity.
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How about this then.....

The founding fathers were believers in Judeo-Christian principles. Would you agree with that?
 
walleye said:
I think a more correct term would be "Christian-Judeo" Principles. Of course the United States was founded on Christian-Judeo principles. The claim otherwise is to deny the reality of historical fact. I'm sure some will because the left keeps trying to rewrite history every day.

America's Godly Heritage
Click to expand...

Why do you continue to deny Historical Facts?

Did you not read my post? go back and re-think this spray of BS.
 
your all talking apples and oranges. The nation was founded on some christian principles because those that founded it were mainly christian.

No Christian Doctrine was formally put into our laws. There are christian ideas in our laws but the bible was not quoted in the Constitution on Purpose.. Our founders loved God, but they did not want to continue the constant European strife that had smashed Europe for over 500 years. It was the practical thing to do. They learned from European mistakes.

Freedom of Religious choice and Seperation of church and state in our laws and institutions was the result of years of war and blood.

To give one church or one belief dominance over the USA, would be a disaster. Death and civil war could easily follow.

I love God, I love Jesus Christ, but please don't insert them into our political process. I don't believe in the doctrine of one true church or Creed, so I would be killed by a good christian.
 
Last edited:
This is a complex question and one far too vague to be answered without some clarifying questions of my own:

1) What do you mean "founded on"?
2) What principles are we talking about?
3) What type of Christianity are we discussing?
4) Do you mean exclusively Christian principles?

I imagine there may be others spawned by the answers to these questions, but these seem like a good start.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is a complex question and one far too vague to be answered without some clarifying questions of my own:

1) What do you mean "founded on"?
2) What principles are we talking about?
3) What type of Christianity are we discussing?
4) Do you mean exclusively Christian principles?

I imagine there may be others spawned by the answers to these questions, but these seem like a good start.
Click to expand...

Good luck. No one even attempted to answer my question about exclusive Christian principles.
 
okay apparently since there is a lack of the "It's founded on Christian principles" side answering the "exclusive Christian principles" question, and they do not compare the ten commandments to the constitution, or any legal documentation, I think it is best to go ahead and rule out the idea of it being a Christian Exclusive nation-state. I do, however, feel it to be a RELIGIOUS nation-state, but not an exclusively Christian one.. to disagree with that is to take the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution and to disregard the specific wording of it. Don't forget that the writer of the DoI, Mr. Jefferson, was flaming Deist; I don't care what church your little source says he was a part of.

And please Jerry. Don't get the terminology of Nation and State/Country mixed up here. United States is a country. Within the United States border there are Americans, and America is an ever-so abstract Nation.
 
buttonpsi said:
Why do you continue to deny Historical Facts?

Did you not read my post? go back and re-think this spray of BS.
Click to expand...

I am convinced of my historical facts. The founding fathers were believers in Judeo-Christian principles. I think your posts are the spray of BS.
 
Beliefs of the Founding Fathers - Quotes from our Founding Fathers on Religion
Information gathered by the American Policy Roundtable

George Washington
Source - Christianity As An Influence On The Founding Fathers by John A. Sterling
Belief - Episcopalian

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation." June 8, 1783 in a letter to the governors of the states on disbanding the army.


Thomas Jefferson
Source - America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME publishing, Inc. 1994
Belief - Episcopalian

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." 1781, Query XVIII of his Notes on that State of Virginia.

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..." April 21, 1803 in a letter to Dr. Benjamin.

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus....I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."




James Madison
Belief - Episcopalian

"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785

"It is not the talking but the walking and working person that is the true Christian." In a manuscript on the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, Madison makes this statement.

"We have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations." March 4, 1809 Inaugural Address

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]




Benjamin Franklin
Belief - Episcopalian

"Here is my Creed. I believe in on God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to Him is in doing good to His other Children. That the soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever Sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see." March 9, 1790 in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University

"Heavenly Father, May all revere Thee, And become They dutiful children and faithful subjects. May thy Laws be obeyed on earth as perfectly as they are in Heaven. Provide for us this day as Thou hast hitherto daily done. Forgive us our trespasses, and enable us likewise to forgive those that offended us. Keep us out of temptation and deliver us from Evil." Franklin's own version of the Lord's Prayer

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” – Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of this speech




John Adams
Belief - Unitarian

"The Christian religion is above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to Man." July 26, 1796, in his diary.

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount contain my religion..." November 4, 1816 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation." December 27, 1816 in a letter to Judge F.A. Van der Kemp.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. (taken from a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men… The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart


For more information on quotes from these founding fathers and many others, please see: America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME Publishing, Inc. 1994.


Resources
Listen to The Public Square

Listen To: Day 1: Christianity and the Constitution with John Eidsmoe

Listen To: Day 2: Christianity and the Constitution with John Eidsmoe

Ten Tortured Words - Interview with Stephen Mansfield



Books
Order Christianity and the Constitution, by John Eidsmoe

FREE U.S. Constitution

Defending the Declaration, by Gary Amos

Samuel Adams - Father of the American Revolution, Mark Puls

Quotes

Taken from America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer

Beliefs

Taken from Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, Adherents.com

Resources
Rediscovering American History - Was America founded on Biblical principles?


The American Policy Roundtable
Ohio Roundtable | Florida Policy Roundtable
11288 Alameda Drive
Strongsville, Ohio 44149
(800) 522-VOTE | info@aproundtable.org
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Good luck. No one even attempted to answer my question about exclusive Christian principles.
Click to expand...

If you directed your questions to the OP then it's not appropriate for anyone but the thread's author to answer them.

Arch Enemy has asked similar questions to the general member ship and I provided sourced answers. If you would kindly repost your questions regarding the founder's intentions and motivations rather than what the OP meant to ask, I would be more than happy to offer my best answers.
 
walleye said:
Beliefs of the Founding Fathers - Quotes from our Founding Fathers on Religion
Information gathered by the American Policy Roundtable

George Washington
Source - Christianity As An Influence On The Founding Fathers by John A. Sterling
Belief - Episcopalian

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation." June 8, 1783 in a letter to the governors of the states on disbanding the army.


Thomas Jefferson
Source - America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME publishing, Inc. 1994
Belief - Episcopalian

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." 1781, Query XVIII of his Notes on that State of Virginia.

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..." April 21, 1803 in a letter to Dr. Benjamin.

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus....I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."




James Madison
Belief - Episcopalian

"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785

"It is not the talking but the walking and working person that is the true Christian." In a manuscript on the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, Madison makes this statement.

"We have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations." March 4, 1809 Inaugural Address

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]




Benjamin Franklin
Belief - Episcopalian

"Here is my Creed. I believe in on God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to Him is in doing good to His other Children. That the soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever Sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see." March 9, 1790 in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University

"Heavenly Father, May all revere Thee, And become They dutiful children and faithful subjects. May thy Laws be obeyed on earth as perfectly as they are in Heaven. Provide for us this day as Thou hast hitherto daily done. Forgive us our trespasses, and enable us likewise to forgive those that offended us. Keep us out of temptation and deliver us from Evil." Franklin's own version of the Lord's Prayer

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” – Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of this speech




John Adams
Belief - Unitarian

"The Christian religion is above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to Man." July 26, 1796, in his diary.

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount contain my religion..." November 4, 1816 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation." December 27, 1816 in a letter to Judge F.A. Van der Kemp.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. (taken from a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men… The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart


For more information on quotes from these founding fathers and many others, please see: America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME Publishing, Inc. 1994.


Resources
Listen to The Public Square

Listen To: Day 1: Christianity and the Constitution with John Eidsmoe

Listen To: Day 2: Christianity and the Constitution with John Eidsmoe

Ten Tortured Words - Interview with Stephen Mansfield



Books
Order Christianity and the Constitution, by John Eidsmoe

FREE U.S. Constitution

Defending the Declaration, by Gary Amos

Samuel Adams - Father of the American Revolution, Mark Puls

Quotes

Taken from America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer

Beliefs

Taken from Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, Adherents.com

Resources
Rediscovering American History - Was America founded on Biblical principles?


The American Policy Roundtable
Ohio Roundtable | Florida Policy Roundtable
11288 Alameda Drive
Strongsville, Ohio 44149
(800) 522-VOTE | info@aproundtable.org
Click to expand...


Please tell me, if these guys were so gung-ho about Christianity then why did they not use the Christian terminology within the DoI and the Constitution. You would think that referring to "God " as "Creator" is not a normal mistake, it seems to be making a more ambiguous term.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Please tell me, if these guys were so gung-ho about Christianity then why did they not use the Christian terminology within the DoI and the Constitution. You would think that referring to "God " as "Creator" is not a normal mistake, it seems to be making a more ambiguous term.
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Also the 1st Amendment is in conflict with the 1st Commandment.
 
My opinion is that they wanted a secular nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles but open to everyone. I believe they wanted a nation of religious freedom where everyone could worship and believe in their own way. Many religions have different names for God, but he is creator to all of them. That's just my opinion.
 
Jerry said:
If you directed your questions to the OP then it's not appropriate for anyone but the thread's author to answer them.

Arch Enemy has asked similar questions to the general member ship and I provided sourced answers. If you would kindly repost your questions regarding the founder's intentions and motivations rather than what the OP meant to ask, I would be more than happy to offer my best answers.
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Yet, you just responded to my post that wasn't directed at you. :roll:
 
walleye said:
My opinion is that they wanted a secular nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles but open to everyone. I believe they wanted a nation of religious freedom where everyone could worship and believe in their own way. Many religions have different names for God, but he is creator to all of them. That's just my opinion.
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Our system/structure of governance is is based of the Roman system
 
I thought the principles of democracy were ancient Greek principles?

And that the principles of a Republican Democracy came from Ancient Rome?

Neither of these were Christian.



What prinicples that were used to found the nation were Christian and what nations with a Christian majority employed these prinicples prior to the US?


It appears to me that the founding principles of our nation (A democratic Republic) are clearly of ancient Greek and Roman origin. If we are indeed founded on Christian principles, I would need comparative examples of which principles we have (and had at our foundation) that are:

1. Unique to Christianity

2. Absent from Ancient Greek and Roman democratic societies.
 
Alex said:
No, it was founded on the Constitution. The Founding Fathers of this country signed the Constitution, not the Bible.
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No, it was founded on the Declaration of Independence.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is a complex question and one far too vague to be answered without some clarifying questions of my own:
Click to expand...

One of the benefits of being Conservative is the inherent ability to correctly and accurately brake down a seemingly Complex Question into its component parts and arriving at objectively true observations and conclusions about the topic at hand :cool: This is how I was able to answer the OP with a single line without the need of drawing out nuances and micro-analysis.

CaptainCourtesy said:
1) What do you mean "founded on"?
Click to expand...

founded - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Main Entry: found
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French funder, fonder, from Latin fundare, from fundus bottom — more at bottom
Date:13th century
1 : to take the first steps in building
2 : to set or ground on something solid : base
3 : to establish (as an institution) often with provision for future maintenance
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A very important point to note here is that the most common use of the term "founded upon" does not require the Constitution to exist yet. Indeed, founding 13 colonies and their respective Agents of Socialization pre-date the Constitution, including the Marine Corps, therefore IMO to insist that the nation as a people began with the Constitution's ratification is pure folly and I cannot see any legitimacy or authority is such arguments.

CaptainCourtesy said:
2) What principles are we talking about?
Click to expand...

Natural Law
n. 1) standards of conduct derived from traditional moral principles (first mentioned by Roman jurists in the first century A.D.) and/or God's law and will. The biblical ten commandments, such as "thou shall not kill," are often included in those principles. Natural law assumes that all people believe in the same Judeo-Christian God and thus share an understanding of natural law premises.

2) the body of laws derived from nature and reason, embodied in the Declaration of Independence assertion that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

3) the opposite of "positive law," which is created by mankind through the state.
Click to expand...

CaptainCourtesy said:
3) What type of Christianity are we discussing?
Click to expand...

Specifically:
  • Episcopalian/Anglican
  • Presbyterian
  • Congregationalist
  • Quaker
  • Dutch Reformed/German Reformed
  • Lutheran
  • Catholic
  • Huguenot
  • Unitarian
  • Methodist
  • Calvinist

CaptainCourtesy said:
4) Do you mean exclusively Christian principles?
Click to expand...

No one has argued that America was founded on exclusively Christian principals, so no. Founding principles can be shared by other people, cultures and religions across the globe and that would change nothing.

The fact that "do not murder" is not exclusively Christianity does not mean "do not murder" is not a Christian principal.

It can be a Christian principal and shared by other religions.
 
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