• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  • Yes, it was.

    Votes: 18 41.9%
  • No, it wasn't.

    Votes: 25 58.1%

  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
What about it? There's very little in the foundational philosophical principles of this country to be found in the Code of Hammurabi; just because it's one of the oldest known written laws doesn't mean our law was modeled after it other than in the most simple sense that it codified law. It's not a blueprint for an early form of democracy or republic.

And besides, the Founders had no idea it even existed.

Oh god.

Can you please read more than just one or two of my posts before you try to debunk what I have to say?

I have stated that I believe the Bible to be based off of principles that are indoctrinated in a metaphysical realm. That people are born into cultures, and cultures share similar ideals of these basic (see the Golden Rule) principles on how to play nicely. I have given a source that shows 21 different instances in appearing in 21 of the world's biggest religions.
 
*sigh* who can even answer the question? Anyone?

I directly answered the OP and follow-up questions in depth, with sources, over several pages, actually.

Where the hell were you?
 
Oh god.

Can you please read more than just one or two of my posts before you try to debunk what I have to say?

I have stated that I believe the Bible to be based off of principles that are indoctrinated in a metaphysical realm. That people are born into cultures, and cultures share similar ideals of these basic (see the Golden Rule) principles on how to play nicely. I have given a source that shows 21 different instances in appearing in 21 of the world's biggest religions.

I wasn't addressing what the Bible was or wasn't based on.
 
No; the Bible (Old Testament, anyway) is one of the oldest documents in the world, going back at least 3000 years. That's before Greek society flourished..... There are no principles upon which the country was founded which predates it.

Actually, this is pretty much false. Modern Scholars attribute the penning of the Torah to have occurred over centuries between 1,000-900 BC to somewhere around 500-400 BC.

Even if we assume a Mosaic authorship, that the Torah was actually penned by Moses, the earliest date believed to be likely is around 1300 B.C.

Now, we would all agree that the idea of a democratic republic is the primary principle upon which this country was founded. The island of Arwad is considered the oldest known democracy/republic, dating back to approximately the 2nd millennium BC.

So assuming Mosaic authorship, we are still seeing that democracy and republicanism predates "Christian" principles.

But let's go with the modern scholastic view that the current form of the Torah was finalized in the 6th or 5th century BC (with a 400 year oral history behind that) and remove Arwad form the equation and focus on Ancient India and Greek cultures.

This would mean that Judeo-Christian principles were at best, concurrent principles to those of Republicanism and Democracy.
 
Actually, this is pretty much false. Modern Scholars attribute the penning of the Torah to have occurred over centuries between 1,000-900 BC to somewhere around 500-400 BC.

Even if we assume a Mosaic authorship, that the Torah was actually penned by Moses, the earliest date believed to be likely is around 1300 B.C.

Now, we would all agree that the idea of a democratic republic is the primary principle upon which this country was founded. The island of Arwad is considered the oldest known democracy/republic, dating back to approximately the 2nd millennium BC.

So assuming Mosaic authorship, we are still seeing that democracy and republicanism predates "Christian" principles.

But let's go with the modern scholastic view that the current form of the Torah was finalized in the 6th or 5th century BC (with a 400 year oral history behind that) and remove Arwad form the equation and focus on Ancient India and Greek cultures.

This would mean that Judeo-Christian principles were at best, concurrent principles to those of Republicanism and Democracy.

Also, how far back does Chinese civilization go?
 
Actually, this is pretty much false. Modern Scholars attribute the penning of the Torah to have occurred over centuries between 1,000-900 BC to somewhere around 500-400 BC.

Even if we assume a Mosaic authorship, that the Torah was actually penned by Moses, the earliest date believed to be likely is around 1300 B.C.

Which would put it in the realm of 3000 years old, being that this is 2009. Which predates Greek and Roman flourishing.

"Pretty much false"? Even your latest estimates say it was begun being put to writing more than 500 years before Socrates.


Now, we would all agree that the idea of a democratic republic is the primary principle upon which this country was founded. The island of Arwad is considered the oldest known democracy/republic, dating back to approximately the 2nd millennium BC.

No, it was settled then. The "democracy" didn't develop until around 1000 BC.

This would mean that Judeo-Christian principles were at best, concurrent principles to those of Republicanism and Democracy.

Which means it doesn't predate it.

But AGAIN, the Greco-Roman and Anglo-Scottish Enlightenment principles upon which the country was founded do not predate the Bible.
 
And what Chinese political principles was the country founded on?

Nothing with regards to democracy, I just thought that they might have texts that predated the Torah.
 
Which would put it in the realm of 3000 years old, being that this is 2009. Which predates Greek and Roman flourishing.

"Pretty much false"? Even your latest estimates say it was begun being put to writing more than 500 years before Socrates.

Why are you using Socrates as some sort of barometer here? He argued against the Athenian Democracy. He seems an exceptionally odd choice to name in a discussion of democracy.




No, it was settled then. The "democracy" didn't develop until around 1000 BC.

Which still predates the realistic estimates (non-Mosaic) of the first books of the Torah.



Which means it doesn't predate it.

But AGAIN, the Greco-Roman and Anglo-Scottish Enlightenment principles upon which the country was founded do not predate the Bible.

Well, the odds are good that the initial principles of Democracy do in fact predate the bible, just using the realistic estimates. About 950 BC for the first book of the Torah, and earlier than 1000 BC for the first democracy.



I guess this can be settled quite easily if someone shows all the references to Republicanism and Democracy in the Bible as Christian principles.

Since it is clear that Republicanism and Democracy are the foundation of the US society, all that need be done to prove that it is founded on Christian principles is to show that these are indeed Christian principles and not polytheistic principles that were eventually adopted by Christians.
 
GEORGE CARLIN ON THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
from "Complaints and Grievances" (HBO special)

Here is my problem with the ten commandments- why exactly are there 10?

You simply do not need ten. The list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. Here's what happened:

About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments, up on a mountain, when no one was around. <snip> GEORGE CARLIN ON THE 10 COMMANDMENTS

YouTube - George Carlin's Ten Commandments
 
Back
Top Bottom