• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Ron Paul Insane?

Is Ron Paul Insane?


  • Total voters
    98
If you call Ron Paul insane, then you will have to call Barry Goldwater insane too, since that is where most of Ron Paul's platform comes from. You would also have to call Ronald Reagan insane. Good luck with that.
 
Very true. Instead, it will be someone politically inspired by the freedom movement.

And then I hear Messiah talk about Obama. Anyways.

Who are you talking about? Somebody who thinks he should follow Ron Paul's simpleton interpretation regarding foreign policy? 'Minding our business overseas' in the 21st century is something nobody anywhere near the middle of the political spectrum other then Ron Paul and Kucinich advocate because it's simply never been in our best interests. America shouldn't go around policing the world but it certainly shouldn't turn a blind eye to military problems concerning our allies in any continent.
 
And then I hear Messiah talk about Obama. Anyways.

Who are you talking about? Somebody who thinks he should follow Ron Paul's simpleton interpretation regarding foreign policy? 'Minding our business overseas' in the 21st century is something nobody anywhere near the middle of the political spectrum other then Ron Paul and Kucinich advocate because it's simply never been in our best interests. America shouldn't go around policing the world but it certainly shouldn't turn a blind eye to military problems concerning our allies in any continent.

Its obvious you have Dr. Paul's foreign policy stance muddled; he advocates a humble foreign policy, and no nation building/policing the world.

He is not the isolationist you make him out to be. Would you consider France or Germany's foreign policy isolationist?
 
And then I hear Messiah talk about Obama. Anyways.

There is difference between being inspired by the ideas a person espouses and being inspired by the way they talk and act. The mass euphoria surrounding Barak Obama had absolutely no substance whatsoever. It was simply the result of a love-struck media and a big steaming pile of populist rhetoric.

Ron Paul's supporters were excited about him because he represented actual change and talked specifically about how to bring about that change. We appreciate what he represents, not the manner in which he presents it. Ron Paul is last guy who could be called eloquent or graceful, so the fact that he has such an excited base speaks to the substance of his positions.

Who are you talking about? Somebody who thinks he should follow Ron Paul's simpleton interpretation regarding foreign policy? 'Minding our business overseas' in the 21st century is something nobody anywhere near the middle of the political spectrum other then Ron Paul and Kucinich advocate because it's simply never been in our best interests. America shouldn't go around policing the world but it certainly shouldn't turn a blind eye to military problems concerning our allies in any continent.

Do you understand the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism?
 
Ron-Paul.jpg


Ron Paul.
:lol:
 
Its obvious you have Dr. Paul's foreign policy stance muddled; he advocates a humble foreign policy, and no nation building/policing the world.

Humble? Is that a new word for ridiculously crazy? In any case I muddled nothing. Those are Ron Paul's own words and in the 21st century they're not exactly humble but a sign of somebody who simply doesn't understand that it is in our best interests to be in as much touch with the rest of the world as possible in everything from technological to military matters.

Ron Paul - Wikiquote

The founders were absolutely right: stay out of the internal affairs of foreign nations, mind our own business, bring our troops home, and have a strong defense.

Against NATO Expansion by Rep. Ron Paul

In conclusion, we should not be wasting US tax money and taking on more military obligations expanding NATO. The alliance is a relic of the Cold War, a hold-over from another time, an anachronism. It should be disbanded, the sooner the better.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Paul: Time for U.S. to leave U.N. « - Blogs from CNN.com

"I support this notion of protecting sovereignty by getting out of the United Nations,"

Sorry. But pulling out of NATO and the UN is simply not 'humble' foreign policy.

He is not the isolationist you make him out to be. Would you consider France or Germany's foreign policy isolationist?

Aren't France and Germany members of NATO, EU, G8, UN etc etc? Your argument fails. If anything pretty much EVERY European nation is the exact opposite of the 'mind our own business' stance that Ron Paul takes. You fail. Hard.
 
There is difference between being inspired by the ideas a person espouses and being inspired by the way they talk and act. The mass euphoria surrounding Barak Obama had absolutely no substance whatsoever. It was simply the result of a love-struck media and a big steaming pile of populist rhetoric.

Ron Paul's supporters were excited about him because he represented actual change and talked specifically about how to bring about that change. We appreciate what he represents, not the manner in which he presents it. Ron Paul is last guy who could be called eloquent or graceful, so the fact that he has such an excited base speaks to the substance of his positions.

Messiah talk was in reference to his prophecy of somebody, in some future, being inspire by Ron Paul and coming along to save this country like an irrelevant Knight in shinny armor. It simply won't happen because America has NEVER espoused the beliefs of Ron Paul. Not even close.

Do you understand the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism?

Non-interventionism :

Non-interventionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nonintervention or non-interventionism is a foreign policy which holds that political rulers should avoid alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial self-defense. A similar phrase is "strategic independence".[1]

Isolationism is nonintervention combined with economic nationalism (protectionism). Proponents of non-interventionism distinguish their polices from isolationism. Examples of supporters of non-interventionism are Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who both favored nonintervention in European Wars while maintaining free trade. Other proponents includes United States Senator Robert Taft and United States Congressman Ron Paul.

So aside from his stances on the economy. Ron Paul is an Isolationist. Any questions?
 
Humble? Is that a new word for ridiculously crazy? In any case I muddled nothing. Those are Ron Paul's own words and in the 21st century they're not exactly humble but a sign of somebody who simply doesn't understand that it is in our best interests to be in as much touch with the rest of the world as possible in everything from technological to military matters.

Ron Paul - Wikiquote



Against NATO Expansion by Rep. Ron Paul



CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Paul: Time for U.S. to leave U.N. « - Blogs from CNN.com



Sorry. But pulling out of NATO and the UN is simply not 'humble' foreign policy.



Aren't France and Germany members of NATO, EU, G8, UN etc etc? Your argument fails. If anything pretty much EVERY European nation is the exact opposite of the 'mind our own business' stance that Ron Paul takes. You fail. Hard.

By removing ourselves from these alliances we can set ourselves up as neutral and possibly open the doors of free trade with any country that wants to.

we could have zero import barriers with many of the countries that don't like us now.

In effect they would be to greedy to oppose us.
They would probably not want to screw with their largest trading partner.
 
Messiah talk was in reference to his prophecy of somebody, in some future, being inspire by Ron Paul and coming along to save this country like an irrelevant Knight in shinny armor. It simply won't happen because America has NEVER espoused the beliefs of Ron Paul. Not even close.



Non-interventionism :

Non-interventionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So aside from his stances on the economy. Ron Paul is an Isolationist. Any questions?

For the record I disagree with his stance on protectionism.
 
By removing ourselves from these alliances we can set ourselves up as neutral and possibly open the doors of free trade with any country that wants to.

We'd also lose agreements to share technological advancements in pretty much every field from agriculture to medicine, war-time alliances etc.

we could have zero import barriers with many of the countries that don't like us now.

In effect they would be to greedy to oppose us.
They would probably not want to screw with their largest trading partner.

Meaning what exactly? If the only thing Libertarians care about are what they believe are the downsides to our current economic foreign policy then they're essentially ignoring ALL the other reasons we're members of groups like the UN and NATO.
 
We'd also lose agreements to share technological advancements in pretty much every field from agriculture to medicine, war-time alliances etc.
You mean sold here right. Most of these things are sold to us through businesses. If someone has something valuable to sell to someone in the u.s.a. then they will buy it.



Meaning what exactly? If the only thing Libertarians care about are what they believe are the downsides to our current economic foreign policy then they're essentially ignoring ALL the other reasons we're members of groups like the UN and NATO.

I'm not ignoring them. Outside of war though what are these alliances worth?
If we are the worlds best trading partner why would the world let us die?
I recognize the downsides of life. If we were a true free market I understand that the economy would not be forever shooting upward.

On the flip side of that I do know that the vast recessions and booms we face now would not be severe in a free market.
 
Ron-Paul.jpg


Ron Paul.
:lol:

When we need someone to explain the subtle nuances behind Philadelphia’s homosexual scene you'll be the first person we call...

Messiah talk was in reference to his prophecy of somebody, in some future, being inspire by Ron Paul and coming along to save this country like an irrelevant Knight in shinny armor. It simply won't happen because America has NEVER espoused the beliefs of Ron Paul. Not even close.

Do you remember a little thing called the American Revolution? It was a trifling matter, I know, but most of what Ron Paul advocates has its origins in our country's birth.

Isolationism is nonintervention combined with economic nationalism(protectionism). Proponents of non-interventionism distinguish their polices from isolationism. Examples of supporters of non-interventionism are Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who both favored nonintervention in European Wars while maintaining free trade. Other proponents includes United States Senator Robert Taft and United States Congressman Ron Paul.

So aside from his stances on the economy. Ron Paul is an Isolationist. Any questions?

That's like saying, aside from his stance on _________, Obama is a black nationalist. In order to be classified as an isolationist Ron Paul must have espoused a policy which meets all the prerequisites of that definition, not a mere portion of it.

Ron Paul believes in free-trade (which immediately disqualifies him as an isolationist), a strong national defense, and effective diplomacy. And yes, I do have a question; what is so important about being a member of NATO and the UN?
 
You mean sold here right. Most of these things are sold to us through businesses. If someone has something valuable to sell to someone in the u.s.a. then they will buy it.

Sold? Most countries come over to America to work on technology and share what they know in exchange for what we know. From medical institutions in America that have agreements with others in the world outside, because of groups like the UN, to our intelligence agencies getting information from other intelligence groups on terrorist threats.

I'm not ignoring them. Outside of war though what are these alliances worth?

When are we not at war?

If we are the worlds best trading partner why would the world let us die?

How much of the world do you think would be as willing to trade if we pulled out of the UN? Seriously?

I recognize the downsides of life. If we were a true free market I understand that the economy would not be forever shooting upward.

On the flip side of that I do know that the vast recessions and booms we face now would not be severe in a free market.

What?
 
Humble? Is that a new word for ridiculously crazy? In any case I muddled nothing. Those are Ron Paul's own words and in the 21st century they're not exactly humble but a sign of somebody who simply doesn't understand that it is in our best interests to be in as much touch with the rest of the world as possible in everything from technological to military matters.

I see...

What is the point of the NATO alliance? Why was it created, and why does it still exist? If your answer is "it makes America stronger", then you that is one hefty assumption: deterrence does not create enemies...


Sorry. But pulling out of NATO and the UN is simply not 'humble' foreign policy.

OPINION and nothing more...


Aren't France and Germany members of NATO, EU, G8, UN etc etc? Your argument fails. If anything pretty much EVERY European nation is the exact opposite of the 'mind our own business' stance that Ron Paul takes. You fail. Hard.


What is the point of an international organization that has very little maneuverability in terms of policy implementation? The UN functions at the pace of the Big 5, and acts as nothing more than a formality, rarely easing political tension. Suffice to say, the UN has proved itself irrelevant...

The deterrence theory you seem to subscribe to has only brought America enemies, and has led to military buildup to escalate throughout the world. Our overall safety is actually reduced as more and more states develop nuclear weapons, which begs me to ask, how is military buildup any different? If anything, arms races are a self fulfilling prophecy, as full scale war becomes reality.

You have proved your understanding of Dr. Paul's ideas on foreign policy is non existent...
 
According to some, Ron Paul is apparently insane. In fact, in this month alone I have heard at least three people refer to him or his policies (although they frequently fail to specificy which ones) as crazy. So, my question to you is, "Is Ron Paul insane?" If so, what has he done to lead you to such a moronic and preposterous conclusion? Moreover, what specific policies of his do you find to be insane and why? Please, refrain from citing his policies as you remember them, instead, quote him directly and progress logically from there.

I see him as an idealist. A very impractical idealist.
 
For the record I disagree with his stance on protectionism.

Ron Paul is not a protectionist. He advocates using tarriffs as a way to increase tax revenue, not as a way to stifle trade. He is simply basing this position off of current market dynamics. We are the largest consumer market in the world, as such there is great demand for access to our market, Ron Paul feels this demand is signifigant enough to warrant a tarriff on certain goods which cannot find markets elsewhere.
 
arguing with libertarians is like pounding your head into a wall.

I'll let the American Conservative do it for me...

The American Conservative -- Marxism of the Right

Free spirits, the ambitious, ex-socialists, drug users, and sexual eccentrics often find an attractive political philosophy in libertarianism, the idea that individual freedom should be the sole rule of ethics and government. Libertarianism offers its believers a clear conscience to do things society presently restrains, like make more money, have more sex, or take more drugs. It promises a consistent formula for ethics, a rigorous framework for policy analysis, a foundation in American history, and the application of capitalist efficiencies to the whole of society. But while it contains substantial grains of truth, as a whole it is a seductive mistake.

There are many varieties of libertarianism, from natural-law libertarianism (the least crazy) to anarcho-capitalism (the most), and some varieties avoid some of the criticisms below. But many are still subject to most of them, and some of the more successful varieties—I recently heard a respected pundit insist that classical liberalism is libertarianism—enter a gray area where it is not really clear that they are libertarians at all. But because 95 percent of the libertarianism one encounters at cocktail parties, on editorial pages, and on Capitol Hill is a kind of commonplace “street” libertarianism, I decline to allow libertarians the sophistical trick of using a vulgar libertarianism to agitate for what they want by defending a refined version of their doctrine when challenged philosophically. We’ve seen Marxists pull that before.

This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society.

The most fundamental problem with libertarianism is very simple: freedom, though a good thing, is simply not the only good thing in life. Simple physical security, which even a prisoner can possess, is not freedom, but one cannot live without it. Prosperity is connected to freedom, in that it makes us free to consume, but it is not the same thing, in that one can be rich but as unfree as a Victorian tycoon’s wife. A family is in fact one of the least free things imaginable, as the emotional satisfactions of it derive from relations that we are either born into without choice or, once they are chosen, entail obligations that we cannot walk away from with ease or justice. But security, prosperity, and family are in fact the bulk of happiness for most real people and the principal issues that concern governments.

Libertarians try to get around this fact that freedom is not the only good thing by trying to reduce all other goods to it through the concept of choice, claiming that everything that is good is so because we choose to partake of it. Therefore freedom, by giving us choice, supposedly embraces all other goods. But this violates common sense by denying that anything is good by nature, independently of whether we choose it. Nourishing foods are good for us by nature, not because we choose to eat them. Taken to its logical conclusion, the reduction of the good to the freely chosen means there are no inherently good or bad choices at all, but that a man who chose to spend his life playing tiddlywinks has lived as worthy a life as a Washington or a Churchill.

Furthermore, the reduction of all goods to individual choices presupposes that all goods are individual. But some, like national security, clean air, or a healthy culture, are inherently collective. It may be possible to privatize some, but only some, and the efforts can be comically inefficient. Do you really want to trace every pollutant in the air back to the factory that emitted it and sue?

Libertarians rightly concede that one’s freedom must end at the point at which it starts to impinge upon another person’s, but they radically underestimate how easily this happens. So even if the libertarian principle of “an it harm none, do as thou wilt,” is true, it does not license the behavior libertarians claim. Consider pornography: libertarians say it should be permitted because if someone doesn’t like it, he can choose not to view it. But what he can’t do is choose not to live in a culture that has been vulgarized by it.

Libertarians in real life rarely live up to their own theory but tend to indulge in the pleasant parts while declining to live up to the difficult portions. They flout the drug laws but continue to collect government benefits they consider illegitimate. This is not just an accidental failing of libertarianism’s believers but an intrinsic temptation of the doctrine that sets it up to fail when
ever tried, just like Marxism.
 
Last edited:
second part

Libertarians need to be asked some hard questions. What if a free society needed to draft its citizens in order to remain free? What if it needed to limit oil imports to protect the economic freedom of its citizens from unfriendly foreigners? What if it needed to force its citizens to become sufficiently educated to sustain a free society? What if it needed to deprive landowners of the freedom to refuse to sell their property as a precondition for giving everyone freedom of movement on highways? What if it needed to deprive citizens of the freedom to import cheap foreign labor in order to keep out poor foreigners who would vote for socialistic wealth redistribution?

In each of these cases, less freedom today is the price of more tomorrow. Total freedom today would just be a way of running down accumulated social capital and storing up problems for the future. So even if libertarianism is true in some ultimate sense, this does not prove that the libertarian policy choice is the right one today on any particular question.

Furthermore, if limiting freedom today may prolong it tomorrow, then limiting freedom tomorrow may prolong it the day after and so on, so the right amount of freedom may in fact be limited freedom in perpetuity. But if limited freedom is the right choice, then libertarianism, which makes freedom an absolute, is simply wrong. If all we want is limited freedom, then mere liberalism will do, or even better, a Burkean conservatism that reveres traditional liberties. There is no need to embrace outright libertarianism just because we want a healthy portion of freedom, and the alternative to libertarianism is not the USSR, it is America’s traditional liberties.

Libertarianism’s abstract and absolutist view of freedom leads to bizarre conclusions. Like slavery, libertarianism would have to allow one to sell oneself into it. (It has been possible at certain times in history to do just that by assuming debts one could not repay.) And libertarianism degenerates into outright idiocy when confronted with the problem of children, whom it treats like adults, supporting the abolition of compulsory education and all child-specific laws, like those against child labor and child sex. It likewise cannot handle the insane and the senile.

Libertarians argue that radical permissiveness, like legalizing drugs, would not shred a libertarian society because drug users who caused trouble would be disciplined by the threat of losing their jobs or homes if current laws that make it difficult to fire or evict people were abolished. They claim a “natural order” of reasonable behavior would emerge. But there is no actual empirical proof that this would happen. Furthermore, this means libertarianism is an all-or-nothing proposition: if society continues to protect people from the consequences of their actions in any way, libertarianism regarding specific freedoms is illegitimate. And since society does so protect people, libertarianism is an illegitimate moral position until the Great Libertarian Revolution has occurred.

And is society really wrong to protect people against the negative consequences of some of their free choices? While it is obviously fair to let people enjoy the benefits of their wise choices and suffer the costs of their stupid ones, decent societies set limits on both these outcomes. People are allowed to become millionaires, but they are taxed. They are allowed to go broke, but they are not then forced to starve. They are deprived of the most extreme benefits of freedom in order to spare us the most extreme costs. The libertopian alternative would be perhaps a more glittering society, but also a crueler one.

Empirically, most people don’t actually want absolute freedom, which is why democracies don’t elect libertarian governments. Irony of ironies, people don’t choose absolute freedom. But this refutes libertarianism by its own premise, as libertarianism defines the good as the freely chosen, yet people do not choose it. Paradoxically, people exercise their freedom not to be libertarians.

The political corollary of this is that since no electorate will support libertarianism, a libertarian government could never be achieved democratically but would have to be imposed by some kind of authoritarian state, which rather puts the lie to libertarians’ claim that under any other philosophy, busybodies who claim to know what’s best for other people impose their values on the rest of us. Libertarianism itself is based on the conviction that it is the one true political philosophy and all others are false. It entails imposing a certain kind of society, with all its attendant pluses and minuses, which the inhabitants thereof will not be free to opt out of except by leaving.

And if libertarians ever do acquire power, we may expect a farrago of bizarre policies. Many support abolition of government-issued money in favor of that minted by private banks. But this has already been tried, in various epochs, and doesn’t lead to any wonderful paradise of freedom but only to an explosion of fraud and currency debasement followed by the concentration of financial power in those few banks that survive the inevitable shaking-out. Many other libertarian schemes similarly founder on the empirical record.

A major reason for this is that libertarianism has a naïve view of economics that seems to have stopped paying attention to the actual history of capitalism around 1880. There is not the space here to refute simplistic laissez faire, but note for now that the second-richest nation in the world, Japan, has one of the most regulated economies, while nations in which government has essentially lost control over economic life, like Russia, are hardly economic paradises. Legitimate criticism of over-regulation does not entail going to the opposite extreme.

Libertarian naïveté extends to politics. They often confuse the absence of government impingement upon freedom with freedom as such. But without a sufficiently strong state, individual freedom falls prey to other more powerful individuals. A weak state and a freedom-respecting state are not the same thing, as shown by many a chaotic Third-World tyranny.

Libertarians are also naïve about the range and perversity of human desires they propose to unleash. They can imagine nothing more threatening than a bit of Sunday-afternoon sadomasochism, followed by some recreational drug use and work on Monday. They assume that if people are given freedom, they will gravitate towards essentially bourgeois lives, but this takes for granted things like the deferral of gratification that were pounded into them as children without their being free to refuse. They forget that for much of the population, preaching maximum freedom merely results in drunkenness, drugs, failure to hold a job, and pregnancy out of wedlock. Society is dependent upon inculcated self-restraint if it is not to slide into barbarism, and libertarians attack this self-restraint. Ironically, this often results in internal restraints being replaced by the external restraints of police and prison, resulting in less freedom, not more.

This contempt for self-restraint is emblematic of a deeper problem: libertarianism has a lot to say about freedom but little about learning to handle it. Freedom without judgment is dangerous at best, useless at worst. Yet libertarianism is philosophically incapable of evolving a theory of how to use freedom well because of its root dogma that all free choices are equal, which it cannot abandon except at the cost of admitting that there are other goods than freedom. Conservatives should know better.
 
Sold? Most countries come over to America to work on technology and share what they know in exchange for what we know. From medical institutions in America that have agreements with others in the world outside, because of groups like the UN, to our intelligence agencies getting information from other intelligence groups on terrorist threats.

These institutions can make all the agreements they want who would stop them?

If we were not intervening in other countries affairs why would anyone feel the need to terrorize us? If the home country of these terrorists was one of our trading partners they would most likely solve the problem themselves.

When are we not at war?

Your question is more like an answer. Resources wasted with no quantifiable gain is what some wars give us. How about we leave other people alone and let them sort out their affairs


How much of the world do you think would be as willing to trade if we pulled out of the UN? Seriously?

What would it matter at that point? We would be stating in effect that we no longer care to fight people for stupid reasons.




You said something about the downsides I think I misread what you were stating. My point was that even a true free market society would not be a euphoric organism of prosperity.
 
Ron Paul is not a protectionist. He advocates using tarriffs as a way to increase tax revenue, not as a way to stifle trade. He is simply basing this position off of current market dynamics. We are the largest consumer market in the world, as such there is great demand for access to our market, Ron Paul feels this demand is signifigant enough to warrant a tarriff on certain goods which cannot find markets elsewhere.

Yea, I read the link to quickly and saw protectionism stuck it the quote.

Threw me off but I tried to address it as fact.
 
Do you remember a little thing called the American Revolution?

It was a trifling matter, I know, but most of what Ron Paul advocates has its origins in our country's birth.

Argument to patriotic emotion Ethereal? Come on now. But since you chose to go down this road :

American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Americans formed an alliance with France in 1778 that evened the military and naval strengths, later bringing Spain and the Dutch Republic into the conflict by their own alliance with France. Although Loyalists were estimated to comprise 15-20% of the population,[1] throughout the war the Patriots generally controlled 80-90% of the territory; the British could hold only a few coastal cities for any extended period of time. Two main British armies surrendered to the Continental Army, at Saratoga in 1777 and Yorktown in 1781, amounting to victory in the war for the United States. The Second Continental Congress transitioned to the Congress of the Confederation with the ratification of the Articles of Confederation earlier in 1781. The Treaty of Paris in 1783 was ratified by this new national government, and ended British claims to any of the thirteen states.

France in the American Revolutionary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spain in the American Revolutionary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which part is that?

That's like saying, aside from his stance on _________, Obama is a black nationalist. In order to be classified as an isolationist Ron Paul must have espoused a policy which meets all the prerequisites of that definition, not a mere portion of it.

Ah yes the 'many different definitions' argument. You made it clear that Ron Paul was a non-interventionist (he even defines himself as one). I brought up the definition of isolationism and excluded the one thing that stopped him from being an isolationist which was well, economic nationalism. So in every other aspect it seems like the way he defines himself is isolationist in nature. He's an isolationist who is against economic nationalism. What exactly are you not getting?

Ron Paul believes in free-trade (which immediately disqualifies him as an isolationist), a strong national defense, and effective diplomacy. And yes, I do have a question; what is so important about being a member of NATO and the UN?

NATO members help U.S. in its Iraq effort - International Herald Tribune

UNITED NATIONS, New York: European countries have overcome their past differences with the United States over Iraq and all 26 NATO members are now providing training and equipment to Baghdad, according to the alliance's secretary general.

The official, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, a former Dutch foreign minister who backed the Bush administration's war while many Europeans opposed it, said Tuesday that he was about to raise the NATO flag over a hugecomplex in Baghdad that had prepared 1,000 Iraqi officers inside the country and 500 more outside.

Focus on the UN: behind-the-scenes benefits to Americans - various UN agencies and their services | US Department of State Dispatch | Find Articles at BNET

UN organizations concerned with nuclear energy, illegal narcotics, and transportation--to name a few--are essential to ensuring the security and safety of Americans at home and abroad. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) promotes multilateral efforts to enhance radiation protection and nuclear safety, and helps nations develop peaceful uses for nuclear power. IAEA technical assistance and cooperation programs support U.S. nonproliferation goals by bringing the benefits of nuclear techniques in electrical power, medicine, agriculture, and science to countries which support the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and IAEA safeguards.

Americans traveling abroad directly benefit from U.S. membership in the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), which sets the standards for safe international civil aviation. ICAO's high standards for aviation safety and airport security help to protect Americans when they travel overseas and help to maintain the competitive edge of the world-leading U.S. aviation industry. Ensuring the safety of international airline travel is especially important to the U.S., since Americans make up 40% of the world's airline passengers.

Seriously dude. Ron Paul's idea that we can just pull out of the UN and everything will be alright is silly at best and a little scary at worst. There is a reason the world gets together and tries to agree on ****. Can you imagine how many would die if we didn't share all we share because of the UN?
 
Last edited:
Argument to patriotic emotion Ethereal? Come on now. But since you chose to go down this road

You say this.

Seriously dude. Ron Paul's idea that we can just pull out of the UN and everything will be alright is silly at best and a little scary at worst. There is a reason the world gets together and tries to agree on ****. Can you imagine how many would die if we didn't share all we share because of the UN?

And then you do your appeal to fear. :roll:
 
Back
Top Bottom