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Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better?

  • Political Islam

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Liberal Democracy

    Votes: 7 46.7%
  • Unable to choose, both are good

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unable to choose, both are bad

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Other (Specify)

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • Total voters
    15
Political System in Islam
Reader comment on article: There Are No Moderates: Dealing with Fundamentalist Islam
Submitted by Muhammad Shakeel Faiz (Pakistan), Jan 7, 2006 at 06:06

The political system of Islam is based on three principles: Tawhid (unity of Allah), Risalat (Prophethood) and Khilafat (vicegerency). It is difficult to appreciate the different aspects of Islamic polity without fully understanding these three principles. I will therefore begin with a brief exposition of what they are.

Tawhid means that only Allah is the Creator, Sustainer and Master of the universe and of all that exists in it, organic or inorganic. The sovereignty of this kingdom is vested only in Him. He alone has the right to command or forbid. Worship and obedience are due to Him alone, no one and nothing else shares it in any way. Life, in all its forms, our physical organs and faculties, the apparent control which we have over nearly everything in our lives and the things themselves, none of them has been created or acquired by us in our own right. They have been bestowed on us entirely by Allah.

Hence, it is not for us to decide the aim and purpose of our existence or to set the limits of our authority; nor is anyone else entitled to make these decisions for us. This right rests only with Allah, who has created us, endowed us with mental and physical faculties, and provided material things for our use. Tawhid means that only Allah is the Creator, Sustainer and Master of the universe and of all that exists in it, organic or inorganic. The sovereignty of this kingdom is vested only in Him. He alone has the right to command or forbid. Worship and obedience are due to Him alone, no one and nothing else shares it in any way. Life, in all its forms, our physical organs and faculties, the apparent control which we have over nearly everything in our lives and the things themselves, none of them has been created or acquired by us in our own right. They have been bestowed on us entirely by Allah.


This principle of the unity of Allah totally negates the concept of the legal and political independence of human beings, individually or collectively. No individual, family, class or race can set themselves above Allah. Allah alone is the Ruler and His commandments are the Law.

The medium through which we receive the law of Allah is known as Risalat. We have received two things from this source: the Book in which Allah has set out His law, and the authoritative interpretation and exemplification of the Book by the Prophet, blessings and peace be on him through word and deed, in his capacity as the representative of Allah. The Prophet, blessings and peace be on him, has also, in accordance with the intention of the Divine Book, given us a model for the Islamic way of life by himself implementing the law and providing necessary details where required. The combination of these two elements is called the Shari‘ah.

Now consider Khilafat. According to the Arabic lexicon, it means ‘representation'. Man, according to Islam, is the representative of Allah on earth, His vicegerent. That is to say, by virtue of the powers delegated to him by Allah, he is required to exercise his Allah-given authority in this world within the limits prescribed by Allah.

Take, for example, the case of an estate which someone has been appointed to administer on your behalf. You will see that four conditions are invariably met. First, the real ownership of the estate remains vested in you and not in the administrator; second, he administers your property only in accordance with your instructions; third, he exercises his authority within the limits prescribed by you; and fourth, in the administration of the trust he executes your will and not his own. These four conditions are so inherent in the concept of ‘representation' that if any representative fails to observe them he will rightly be blamed for breaking the covenant which was implied in the concept of ‘representation'. This is exactly what Islam means when it affirms that man is the vicegerent of Allah on earth. Hence, these four conditions are also involved in the concept of Khilafat.

A state that is established in accordance with this political theory will in fact be a human caliphate under the sovereignty of Allah and will do Allah's will by working within the limits prescribed by Him and in accordance with His instructions and injunctions.

This is a new and revised translation of a talk given by the author on Radio Pakistan, Lahore, on 20th January, 1948.

More at this link:
Political System in Islam - Reader comments at DanielPipes.org
 
No. You are an idiot irregardless of what I may think of the tactics liberals use to avoid the argument on Islam. Islam is not a political system. It's not trying to take over the world. It's not even trying to take my coloring pencils away. However the argument I made was there is a problem within it. That problem being the radicals. That you take that somehow to mean that Islam is a political system that should be opposed is on you. Not me. Let's not play like we're on the same page about Islam and you're not one of the most dishonest posters on this board. You were being dishonest with this poll from the start. There is no such thing as political Islam. Islam can be forced into a political system but in and of itself it is not a political system. Neither is Christianity unless it is used for that purpose. No flip-flop here. Just your idiotic belief that because I disagree with liberals on a certain issue that I agree with you on another.

You don't have anything to support your belief. But you sure as hell feel strongly about it.

Islam is rules and prohibitions and laws.

Ever heard of Sharia law?

That is what it is.

Political.
 
non-muslims may live without Sharia law if they pay a tax. If that is not political then I don't know what is.
 
You don't have anything to support your belief. But you sure as hell feel strongly about it.

Islam is rules and prohibitions and laws.

Ever heard of Sharia law?

That is what it is.

Political.

What stupidity. By this standard then so is Christianity. Or are you saying the 10 commandments are not prohibitions and laws?
 
Thanks, walleye. That's more than enough. He's acting more irrationally than usual tonight.

One would think with his two infractions that his remaining time at DP would be short.

He asked to be banned in the first 'idiot' post of his.

Do you think I give 2 ****s about being banned from this site? Lol. Get a clue. Better yet. Get a map of the internet. I'm sure you'll find that there is more to the world then false standards for political systems and evil Muslim men coming to eat your children.
 
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Do you think I give 2 ****s about being banned from this site? Lol. Get a clue. Better yet. Get a map of the internet. I'm sure you'll find that there is more to the world then false standards for political systems and evil Muslim men coming to eat your children.

Then get your funky non-spellin *** on the rizzoad.
 
What stupidity. By this standard then so is Christianity. Or are you saying the 10 commandments are not prohibitions and laws?

I thought you begged out of this discussion. Flip flopping again?

:rofl
 
I never used the words "shameful abomination". I said spiritually dead. "Shameful abomination" are your words, not mine.

Islam is a murderous hateful cult that has contributed nothing positive to civilization. In Islam you are not fully human if you are not a muslim. Muhammed also believed rats are mutant Jews.

The Christian-Judeo culture has contributed considerable to civilization and culture.

Please digress some more.

Hate speech, kudos to you!

Do you have anything to support your claims:
- Non-Muslims are not fully humans in Islam (I don't even know how this makes sense)
- Muhammad believed rats are mutant Jews
- Islam has contributed nothing positive to civilization (not even Trigonometry?)
 
- Islam has contributed nothing positive to civilization (not even Trigonometry?)

I suggest you go back to History class. The Arabs and Islam contribued quite a bit thanks.
 
All those who God killed in the Old Testament were judged. The punishment for sin is death. That still stands. Unless you take God's way out through faith in Jesus the Savior, you will also face eternal death. Everyone will. That is not genocidal killing.
So the Muslims, the Jews, the Athiests and all non-Christians are spiritually dead. Essentially zombies, yes? And since the vast majority of people do not take the mystical, magical Jesus oath which could magically grant them salvation regardless of what terrible people they were, most of us are to be judged just as were the infidels of the old testament. And, if the zombie infadels were to develop their own political wills, which could interfere with and be contrary to the Christian agenda of saving the world with the mystical, magic Jesus oath, it could forseeably be God's will to rain death upon them, of course with the help of special human Christian helpers. This has happened on several notable historical occasions. So um, what's changed since the old testament again?
 
I suggest you go back to History class. The Arabs and Islam contribued quite a bit thanks.

I don't think Islam contributed trigonometry. Compared to the Judeo-Christian culture, Arabs and Islam have contributed a drop in the bucket. Why don't you give us a list of all the Arab-Muslim Nobel prize winners and I'll give a list of all the Judeo-Christian Nobel prize winners. Are you up to the challenge?
 
So the Muslims, the Jews, the Athiests and all non-Christians are spiritually dead. Essentially zombies, yes? And since the vast majority of people do not take the mystical, magical Jesus oath which could magically grant them salvation regardless of what terrible people they were, most of us are to be judged just as were the infidels of the old testament. And, if the zombie infadels were to develop their own political wills, which could interfere with and be contrary to the Christian agenda of saving the world with the mystical, magic Jesus oath, it could forseeably be God's will to rain death upon them, of course with the help of special human Christian helpers. This has happened on several notable historical occasions. So um, what's changed since the old testament again?

Sounds like a good movie.
 
I don't think Islam contributed trigonometry. Compared to the Judeo-Christian culture, Arabs and Islam have contributed a drop in the bucket. Why don't you give us a list of all the Arab-Muslim Nobel prize winners and I'll give a list of all the Judeo-Christian Nobel prize winners. Are you up to the challenge?

It seems like a lot of cultures contributed:

Trigonometry is not the work of any one man or nation. Its history spans thousands of years and has touched every major civilization. It should be noted that from the time of Hipparchus until modern times there was no such thing as a trigonometric ratio. Instead, the Greeks and after them the Hindus and the Muslims used trigonometric lines. These lines first took the form of chords and later half chords, or sines. These chord and sine lines would then be associated with numerical values, possibly approximations, and listed in trigonometric tables.[2]

History of trigonometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
So the Muslims, the Jews, the Athiests and all non-Christians are spiritually dead. Essentially zombies, yes?

That is a ridicules comparison.

And since the vast majority of people do not take the mystical, magical Jesus oath which could magically grant them salvation regardless of what terrible people they were, most of us are to be judged just as were the infidels of the old testament.

It is much more than taking an oath.

No, "most of us" will not be judged. All of us will be judged, period.

And, if the zombie infadels were to develop their own political wills, which could interfere with and be contrary to the Christian agenda of saving the world with the mystical, magic Jesus oath, it could forseeably be God's will to rain death upon them, of course with the help of special human Christian helpers.

#1 No "zombie infadels" exist in Christianity.
#2 The Christian agenda is to see people saved, not taking a "mystical, magic Jesus oath" but being sincere in the excepting of Christ. This alone will not get you into heaven, but it is a big step.
#3 Until the end times God will not rain death down on anyone. When God does, their is no mention of him needing help from "special human Christian helpers."

This has happened on several notable historical occasions. So um, what's changed since the old testament again?

Christians are not bound by the OT. We are under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.
 
I don't think Islam contributed trigonometry

Don't act ignorant and stupid. Arabs played a role in continuing the furthering of knowledge during the Middle Ages.
Islamic Mathematics and Astronomy was a part played by the Arab field.
Yusuf - these numerals he had translated and studied were finally known in the West as Arabic numerals.
Ahmad al-Nahavandi - Made astronomical observations at Jundishapur and compiled tables.
Al-Khwarizmi was one of the first to compute astronomical and trigonometrical tables

Hell that is just 5 out of many. Do continue if you want me to go on at Arab/Islamic contributions to Medicine, Alchemy, Physics, and Technology. Islamic Geography, and Geology and Muslim Mathematics and Astronomy.
 
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Don't act ignorant and stupid. Arabs played a role in continuing the furthering of knowledge during the Middle Ages.
Islamic Mathematics and Astronomy was a part played by the Arab field.
Yusuf - these numerals he had translated and studied were finally known in the West as Arabic numerals.
Ahmad al-Nahavandi - Made astronomical observations at Jundishapur and compiled tables.
Al-Khwarizmi was one of the first to compute astronomical and trigonometrical tables

Hell that is just 5 out of many. Do continue if you want me to go on at Arab/Islamic contributions to Medicine, Alchemy, Physics, and Technology. Islamic Geography, and Geology and Muslim Mathematics and Astronomy.

Why would I want to act ignorant and stupid when I have you?

Arab/Islamic Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people)
Literature

1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace

1978 - Anwar El-Sadat

1994 - Yasser Arafat *

2003 - Shirin Ebadi

Chemistry

1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Physics

Abdus Salam



* NOTE: Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, was a member of the Nobel Committee. He resigned in 1994 to protest the awarding of a Nobel "Peace Prize" to Yasser Arafat, whom he correctly labeled a "terrorist."


Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people)
Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse

1927 - Henri Bergson

1958 - Boris Pasternak

1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon

1966 - Nelly Sachs

1976 - Saul Bellow

1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer

1981 - Elias Canetti

1987 - Joseph Brodsky

1991 - Nadine Gordimer

2002 - Imre Kertesz

World Peace

1911 - Alfred Fried

1911 - Tobias Asser

1968 - Rene Cassin

1973 - Henry Kissinger

1978 - Menachem Begin

1986 - Elie Wiesel

1994 - Shimon Peres

1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

1995 - Joseph Rotblat

Chemistry

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer

1906 - Henri Moissan

1910 - Otto Wallach

1915 - Richard Willstaetter

1918 - Fritz Haber

1943 - George Charles de Hevesy

1961 - Melvin Calvin

1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz

1972 - William Howard Stein

1972 - C.B. Anfinsen

1977 - Ilya Prigogine

1979 - Herbert Charles Brown

1980 - Paul Berg

1980 - Walter Gilbert

1981 - Ronald Hoffmann

1982 - Aaron Klug

1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman

1985 - Jerome Karle

1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach

1988 - Robert Huber

1989 - Sidney Altman

1992 - Rudolph Marcus

1998 - Walter Kohn

2000 - Alan J. Heeger

2004 - Irwin Rose

2004 - Avram Hershko

2004 - Aaron Ciechanover

Economics

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson

1971 - Simon Kuznets

1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow

1973 - Wassily Leontief

1975 - Leonid Kantorovich

1976 - Milton Friedman

1978 - Herbert A. Simon

1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein

1985 - Franco Modigliani

1987 - Robert M. Solow

1990 - Harry Markowitz

1990 - Merton Miller

1992 - Gary Becker

1993 - Rober Fogel

1994 - John Harsanyi

1994 - Reinhard Selten

1997 - Robert Merton

1997 - Myron Scholes

2001 - George Akerlof

2001 - Joseph Stiglitz

2002 - Daniel Kahneman

2005 - Robert (Israel) Aumann

Medicine

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff

1908 - Paul Erlich

1914 - Robert Barany

1922 - Otto Meyerhof

1930 - Karl Landsteiner

1931 - Otto Warburg

1936 - Otto Loewi

1944 - Joseph Erlanger

1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser

1945 - Ernst Boris Chain

1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller

1950 - Tadeus Reichstein

1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman

1953 - Hans Krebs

1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann

1958 - Joshua Lederberg

1959 - Arthur Kornberg

1964 - Konrad Bloch

1965 - Francois Jacob

1965 - Andre Lwoff

1967 - George Wald

1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg

1969 - Salvador Luria

1970 - Julius Axelrod

1970 - Sir Bernard Katz

1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman

1975 - David Baltimore

1975 - Howard Martin Temin

1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg

1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow

1977 - Andrew V. Schally

1978 - Daniel Nathans

1980 - Baruj Benacerraf

1984 - Cesar Milstein

1985 - Michael Stuart Brown

1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein

1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]

1988 - Gertrude Elion

1989 - Harold Varmus

1991 - Erwin Neher

1991 - Bert Sakmann

1993 - Richard J. Roberts

1993 - Phillip Sharp

1994 - Alfred Gilman

1994 - Martin Rodbell

1995 - Edward B. Lewis

1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner

1998 - Robert F. Furchgott

2000 - Eric R. Kandel

2002 - Sydney Brenner

2002 - Robert H. Horvitz

Physics

1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson

1908 - Gabriel Lippmann

1921 - Albert Einstein

1922 - Niels Bohr

1925 - James Franck

1925 - Gustav Hertz

1943 - Gustav Stern

1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi

1945 - Wolfgang Pauli

1952 - Felix Bloch

1954 - Max Born

1958 - Igor Tamm

1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich

1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich

1959 - Emilio Segre

1960 - Donald A. Glaser

1961 - Robert Hofstadter

1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau

1963 - Eugene P. Wigner

1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman

1965 - Julian Schwinger

1967 - Hans Albrecht Bethe

1969 - Murray Gell-Mann

1971 - Dennis Gabor

1972 - Leon N. Cooper

1973 - Brian David Josephson

1975 - Benjamin Mottleson

1976 - Burton Richter

1978 - Arno Allan Penzias

1978 - Peter L Kapitza

1979 - Stephen Weinberg

1979 - Sheldon Glashow

1988 - Leon Lederman

1988 - Melvin Schwartz

1988 - Jack Steinberger

1990 - Jerome Friedman

1992 - Georges Charpak

1995 - Martin Perl

1995 - Frederick Reines

1996 - David M. Lee

1996 - Douglas D. Osheroff

1997 - Claude Cohen-Tannoudji

2000 - Zhores I. Alferov

2003 - Vitaly Ginsburg

2003 - Alexei Abrikosov

After reviewing this list, can you supply a reason for the large discrepancy between the Arab/Islamic population's contribution to the world body and that of the Jew? There are 165 Jews listed as opposed to 6 from the Arab side.
 
Why would I want to act ignorant and stupid when I have you?

-snip-

After reviewing this list, can you supply a reason for the large discrepancy between the Arab/Islamic population's contribution to the world body and that of the Jew? There are 165 Jews listed as opposed to 6 from the Arab side.

Probably because Nobel Prizes were only given out since 1901 and not for the other thousands of years humans have lived.

Notice how there's no Nobel Prize in Mathematics?
 
Don't act ignorant and stupid. Arabs played a role in continuing the furthering of knowledge during the Middle Ages.
Islamic Mathematics and Astronomy was a part played by the Arab field.
Yusuf - these numerals he had translated and studied were finally known in the West as Arabic numerals.
Ahmad al-Nahavandi - Made astronomical observations at Jundishapur and compiled tables.
Al-Khwarizmi was one of the first to compute astronomical and trigonometrical tables

Hell that is just 5 out of many. Do continue if you want me to go on at Arab/Islamic contributions to Medicine, Alchemy, Physics, and Technology. Islamic Geography, and Geology and Muslim Mathematics and Astronomy.


Are you actually going to reply back to my post without copy and pasting a bunch of names i have never heard of?

Have Arab/Islamic world given to science, in other words advanced it? Yes or No?
I even simplified it for you Now answer it.
 
I am sorry but I don't have the faintest idea what you mean by Political Islam.

I can only speak from my own experience. I look at Clinton administration, I look at the GW Bush administration, and I look at potential for progress and
helping america, I strongly support Obama.

Bush has trully blown it. He is anti-american people, and is a simple string puppet for a bunch of Rich pricks who want exploit America and the world.

As soon as possible we should bring charges against Bush and send the dog to prison.

God Bless America, and protect us from terror of Bin Laden and the terror of George Bush and Cheney. Amen. Amen.:2wave::2razz:
 
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Are you actually going to reply back to my post without copy and pasting a bunch of names i have never heard of?

Have Arab/Islamic world given to science, in other words advanced it? Yes or No?
I even simplified it for you Now answer it.

I did answer you. I gave you a list of Arab-muslim Nobel Prize winners and a list of Jewish Nobel Prize winnders. Look at the numbers. You are defending a group of people who vastly outnumber Jews on the earth and yet are vastly outnumbered by Jews in accomplishments in the sciences.

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people), 6 Nobel Prize winners.

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people), 165 Nobel Prize winners.

Hitler got rid of 6 million for you and they still clean your clock.

If you're too stupid and ignorant to comprehend and admit the facts then I suggest you find an adult or your mommy or daddy to help you understand it.
 
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I did answer you. I gave you a list of Arab-muslim Nobel Prize winners and a list of Jewish Nobel Prize winnders. Look at the numbers. You are defending a group of people who vastly outnumber Jews on the earth and yet are vastly outnumbered by Jews in accomplishments in the sciences.

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people), 6 Nobel Prize winners.

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people), 165 Nobel Prize winners.

Hitler got rid of 6 million for you and they still clean your clock.

If you're too stupid and ignorant to comprehend and admit the facts then I suggest you find an adult or your mommy or daddy to help you understand it.

So only the past 109 years account for all of Islam's contribution to the world? The other 1,300 years mean nothing in your eyes?

Take a second to realize how ignorant you sound.

Notice how there isn't a Nobel Prize for Mathematics? I think most people will agree that Muslims made quite profound developments in Math throughout history (Medieval Muslims made stunning math breakthrough | Science | Reuters - Mathematics in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

PS - That's one helluva long Wiki article...
 
I did answer you. I gave you a list of Arab-muslim Nobel Prize winners and a list of Jewish Nobel Prize winnders. Look at the numbers. You are defending a group of people who vastly outnumber Jews on the earth and yet are vastly outnumbered by Jews in accomplishments in the sciences.

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people), 6 Nobel Prize winners.

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people), 165 Nobel Prize winners.

Hitler got rid of 6 million for you and they still clean your clock.

If you're too stupid and ignorant to comprehend and admit the facts then I suggest you find an adult or your mommy or daddy to help you understand it.

Everyone knows that all of those Jew nobel prizes studie in the US, If we got a chance to do I bet that we would get more percentage of nobel winner awards.

Another thing, how will that affect in anything anyway ?

Just a try for showing off ?
 
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