Primary Source of Job Losses

Vader · Jan 18, 2009

obvious Child said:
Largely because you do not understand.

No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.

obvious Child said:
Why? If another country can do it better, faster and cheaper, why should we force American citizens to pay more for inferior goods?

Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

obvious Child said:
Because....? If Americans want to get paid 10 times they need to be 10 times as efficient.

We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.

obvious Child said:
Furthermore many firms send jobs overseas because they can effectively operate a 24 hour workday. That's powerful stuff.

They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.

obvious Child said:
So you are saying that the US government should mandate that Americans be forced to pay for inferior goods at higher prices merely so that their fellow citizens can have a job?

Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.

obvious Child said:
That's welfare.

No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

Outsourcing of these types of jobs is nothing more than a profit-maximization tool.

obvious Child said:
You keep saying it's unacceptable but you give absolutely no reason why we should do it other then for welfare reasons.

It's not welfare --- that is a term corporate douchebags use when they get called out by people who are tired of their nonsensical bull****.

It's leaving those jobs in the United States so that Americans have the opprotunity to earn a living. Big business needs to be legally prohibited from increasing their profits (and the size of their bonuses) by causing abject poverty that essentially kills the middle class.

It's bull**** and it needs to be stopped.

Rodney · Jan 18, 2009

UtahBill said:
The money whores he refers to are most likely the financiers whose jobs have nothing to do with creating jobs, but creating wealth for insiders who do nothing more than manipulate the markets. Bill Gates is filthy rich, but he deserves it. Bernie Madoff is, or lived, filthy rich, but he stole it.
Greed is stupid. You can only spend so much. What is the point being a billionaire if all you do is hoard it?

I know an ACCOUNTANT who charges $125.00 per hour and he`s quite possibly under paid,(just works his tail off...7 days a week)and produces a good product. Money Whores are NOT just those at the top. Its often the small business owner who wants to pay nothing for something,relatively speaking. The guy or gal with one or more college degrees and working for very low wages,no insurance,no sick pay,no vacation pay ,no holliday pay,no hope for a retirement,no gifts under the christmas tree...,no tree for many this year ,"These are blatant symptoms of the money whores prevalence in America today". Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth. Accurate or not ,it isn`t BS either ,It is a symptom of the prevalence of the money whore. We either deal with the absolute imbalance and lack of fairness or accept that 40 % of America will be without insurance,they wont buy cars or homes,many will live on the street. Starvation ,all forms of suffering ,death on the street...Its happening NOW folks. Im not `OUT THERE`.I`m not high. I`m not a commie. I`m an unemployed ,multi train,highly skilled American on the recieving end of the money whores greed and excess,simple as that. WE are all being victemized by this guy. BTW Thank You Utah Bill. "STINKING RICH MONEY WHORES are NOT KEEPING OUR ECONOMY STRONG,THEY ARE DESTROYING IT...FOR PROFIT. Trust Me.

Rodney · Jan 18, 2009

Vader said:
No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.

Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.

They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.

Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.

No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

Outsourcing of these types of jobs is nothing more than a profit-maximization tool.

It's not welfare --- that is a term corporate douchebags use when they get called out by people who are tired of their nonsensical bull****.

It's leaving those jobs in the United States so that Americans have the opprotunity to earn a living. Big business needs to be legally prohibited from increasing their profits (and the size of their bonuses) by causing abject poverty that essentially kills the middle class.

It's bull**** and it needs to be stopped.

VADER,I have been getting lengthy in my posts. PLease let it suffice,"You know what you are talking about". Cyber space doth harm the American work force. One of my areas of expertise is ,"allied Health". I found out that many of these mega-corps we still call hospitals ,are outsourceing the reading of X-rays. Yes there are radiologists unemployed.... The American product has always been the Gold Standard of quality. Anyone contending that goods made in PhuKIng China ,even moderately compare to American quality,is deludeing his or her self to verify that,"We the People" suck as manufacturers so they can remain unsciounable as they turn their backs on Americas work force.

Rodney · Jan 18, 2009

obvious Child said:
You're missing something key. Automated telephone boards resulted in thousands of telephone operators being fired. One backhoe eliminated hundreds of diggers. One long shore man in a crane eliminated thousands of off loaders. Automated payroll systems got rid of plenty of book keepers. The computer annihilated the type writer industry.

This isn't a discussion about net jobs as we all know that technology can create jobs. It's about whether or not outsourcing rather then technology is a bigger detriment to jobs losses.

NAFTA cost the US 250,000 jobs in total. That's about the normal amount lost in an average economy in a few months due to normal business factors. How many manual labor jobs did automation destroy overall? Got to be in the hundreds of millions over time.

Bottom line the problem is still about the MONEY WHORES. Trade imbalance ,and tarifs ,and designed obsolesence As ordered by corporate America) ,and the notion that the American work force SUDDENLY rated ,"NOT WORTHY", are all symptoms of Money Whores takeing as massive a slice as they can out of America and all the global Slave markets they`ve created FOR PROFIT ,(in the last three or four decades ,and accelaerated into the new millenium). IF TECHNOLOGY HAS IRETRIEVABLY REPLACED ME AS A NECESSARY ENTITY IN THE LABOR SET, THEN I WANT THE GOVERNMENT AND ALL THE MONEY WHORES TO GET TOGETHER AND CUT ME A CHECK FOR..., ANNUAL VACATIONS,INSURANCE,NEW CARS ,BOATS ,GASOLINE,GUNS AND AMMO ,QUALITY FOOD ,AND ANY ,AND ALL GOODS NECESSARY TO A GOOD LIFESTYLE,( EMPHASIS ON "GOOD LIFESTYLE). We are on the threshhold of this kind of socialist greed if the money whores ,and the governments which serves only them ,don`t fix what they`ve broken...soon.

Kandahar · Jan 18, 2009

Vader said:
No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.

Yet ONCE AGAIN you still have not offered a single word of criticism for these same "corporate scumbags" replacing American workers with robots, which causes a lot more job losses than The Big Bad Furriner. Why is this?

Vader said:
Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

That doesn't make any sense. Please explain the logical connection between the two.

"Product" can mean goods or services. I assume that was the sense in which he was using the word.

Vader said:
It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

Yet you're OK with them doing the same thing, provided that the job recipient is a robot rather than an Indian.

Vader said:
We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.

So? What's wrong with that? Does automation not increase profits too?

Vader said:
They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.

Nations don't usually become wealthy until after they go through a "sweatshop" phase. See the United States, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan for examples. You have the luxury of criticizing "sweatshop labor" on your personal computer from your middle-class home while eating as much as you want, but those people who work in what you term "sweatshops" need those jobs a lot more than Americans do.

Vader said:
Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

It really doesn't matter what industry we're talking about, outsourcing is a net positive across the board.

Vader said:
Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.

A) As I've already illustrated, it's impossible to point to any specific act and label it as outsourcing. B) Those foreign workers need the jobs a lot more than you do. C) Companies are under no obligation to provide you with a job. D) There is nothing wrong with them cutting costs to increase their profits. E) Outsourcing makes goods and services cheaper for the end consumer, which raises the standard of living.

Vader said:
No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

Why do they need to be employing American workers first? What makes you so special? And are you gonna define "American companies"?

Phoenix · Jan 18, 2009

Rodney, you are bitter.

Consider clinging to guns and religion.

Rodney · Jan 18, 2009

Phoenix said:
Rodney, you are bitter.

Consider clinging to guns and religion.

I am bitter as hell ,and a good shot. Jesus is a no-show. I will deal with these issues to the best of my growing abilities. Keep your head down there snyper.

obvious Child · Jan 18, 2009

Rodney said:
...and outsource ,to have the technologies replaceing people ,manufactured. I agree 100% with you but close behind is the money whores of Wall Street,corporate leaders,and investors turning their back on WE the PEOPLE. I am very well educated ,and very talented ,and very unemployed ,and very very angree at the money whores. By any other name ....

Come again? GE manufactures a great many automated systems within the US. Those provide many direct jobs and millions of indirect jobs. Without these sector, GE would be comparatively smaller and there would be fewer of such jobs.

So you're saying that Wall Street should accept inferior products and higher prices with significant reductions in returns so that Americans can have obsolete jobs?

That's welfare.

obvious Child · Jan 18, 2009

Vader said:
No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.

Blah, blah, blah.

Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT.

Actually it is. It a product line for many firms. You are confusing tangible with intangible.

why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

Because it's expensive? It's not cost effective? It can be done cheaper elsewhere?

It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs

Perhaps to some. Personally, foreign tech support IMO is terrible in the cases I had to use it (airline lost baggage).

It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

Sacrificing the working class? So you are for more government restrictions on what firms can do with their own money.

S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T

We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.

Actually we were talking about all off-shoring. Perhaps for tech support now that you have unilaterally changed the subject, it may be the case. But that's not true for everything.

They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.

Like slaves? Maybe in a Nike factory, that's hardly they call centers of India. Those are air conditioned, high relative pay and good if not a bit strange hours.

And what's wrong with sweatshop labor? Would you rather have them being prostitutes?

Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

Care to point that out in earlier posts? It appears you changed the subject without informing anyone of that.

Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.

Oh wow. You are a Socialist. It doesn't make sense to keep tech support here based on the cost. If we followed through with your plan, we'd ban all off shoring. Then we'd be essentially a closed economy.

No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

Incorrect. You are supporting welfare. You sole reason is to keep Americans in their jobs. You made no argument other then that for why we should essentially ban trade. That's welfare. You want us to buy from only American despite higher prices and inferior goods just to keep people employed. That's welfare. The only difference is that instead of taxing us and giving money, we are forced to buy our products from them at higher prices for crappy goods. Same outcome.

Your entire argument is welfare.

When you have something other then welfare, state it.

Vader · Jan 19, 2009

obvious Child said:
Actually it is. It a product line for many firms. You are confusing tangible with intangible.

No, I am not.

obvious Child said:
Because it's expensive? It's not cost effective? It can be done cheaper elsewhere?

Sure at the cost of American jobs. Stop being a corporate mouth piece. American companies have a duty to their country. Americans should be doing those jobs.

obvious Child said:
Perhaps to some. Personally, foreign tech support IMO is terrible in the cases I had to use it (airline lost baggage).

Yeah ... I agree. Microsoft's offshore tech support is pure ****.

obvious Child said:
Sacrificing the working class? So you are for more government restrictions on what firms can do with their own money.
S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T

I am for keeping jobs in this country. I am for preventing the middle class from disappearing. I am for laws that keep corporate greedmongers in check.

obvious Child said:
Actually we were talking about all off-shoring. Perhaps for tech support now that you have unilaterally changed the subject, it may be the case. But that's not true for everything.

We? I take it you're a corp-ro-nazi! No wonder you see no reason to keep the middle class working.

obvious Child said:
Like slaves? Maybe in a Nike factory, that's hardly they call centers of India. Those are air conditioned, high relative pay and good if not a bit strange hours.

Still --- those jobs belong in America. Americans deserve those jobs. The middle class MUST be maintained ... even if some big business asshole doesn't get a six figure bonus.

obvious Child said:
And what's wrong with sweatshop labor? Would you rather have them being prostitutes?

Sweatshop labor is the same as SLAVE LABOR. You should be ashamed of yourself for asking that question.

obvious Child said:
Care to point that out in earlier posts? It appears you changed the subject without informing anyone of that.

No, you changed it, I changed it back.

obvious Child said:
Oh wow. You are a Socialist. It doesn't make sense to keep tech support here based on the cost. If we followed through with your plan, we'd ban all off shoring. Then we'd be essentially a closed economy.

No. It makes you a pro-business neo con who cares more about profits than his own country. You should be ashamed of yourself.

obvious Child said:
Incorrect. You are supporting welfare. You sole reason is to keep Americans in their jobs. You made no argument other then that for why we should essentially ban trade. That's welfare. You want us to buy from only American despite higher prices and inferior goods just to keep people employed. That's welfare. The only difference is that instead of taxing us and giving money, we are forced to buy our products from them at higher prices for crappy goods. Same outcome.

Again ... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're discussing technical support and the IT industry.

Also ... it is not welfare ... that is an excuse used by neocon big business douchebags who don't care home many lives they destroy as long as the get a big bonus.

There is more to life than profit and its time the neocon assholes of this world figured that out.

Your entire argument is pro-neocon and **** Americans.

obvious Child said:
When you have something other then welfare, state it.

When you can do something besides tounge the anus of greedy corporate criminals we can finish this conversation. Until then ... spare me your neoconist, anti-American bull****.

obvious Child · Jan 19, 2009

Vader said:
No, I am not.

Someone else pointed this out. You are confusing it. Btw, it is common courtesy to actually tell people you're narrowing the subject before doing so. That was quite rude of you.

Sure at the cost of American jobs. Stop being a corporate mouth piece. American companies have a duty to their country. Americans should be doing those jobs.

Companies have one primary duty: increase shareholder wealth. That has never changed and will never change independent of where a firm is located. American companies have no such duty to what you speak of. And why should an American firm go bankrupt trying to compete by hiring works that produce a cost structure that is highly uncompetitive? Guess how firms get around this? By automating and firing their workers.

What you propose is to destroy American business by denying their the capacity to reduce their cost structures. SOCIALIST.

I am for keeping jobs in this country. I am for preventing the middle class from disappearing. I am for laws that keep corporate greedmongers in check.

Explain to me how it is beneficial for workers and American to see firms go bankrupt. Besides, the slow reduction in jobs of certain industries gives America time to retrain for what it does best. America for the most part doesn't make textiles anymore. It designs computer processors. When every country does what it does best, everyone benefits as everyone can buy superior products at low cost. Win-Win in the long run. And you forget that Corporations provide large amounts of money to Americans through dividends not to mention innovation. Pfizer has something like a $9.5 billion R&D budget that it spends primarily in the US.

We? I take it you're a corp-ro-nazi! No wonder you see no reason to keep the middle class working.

You do realize no one takes those seriously when they come from you? I see no reason to keep the middle class working in industries America cannot compete in. Hence why I'm on board with Obama's green energy initiatives. If we can start massive alternative energy industries in America, we can export the knowledge and manufactured products from those industries, and those industries will be solidly middle class. That and I hate petro-dictators.

Still --- those jobs belong in America. Americans deserve those jobs. The middle class MUST be maintained ... even if some big business asshole doesn't get a six figure bonus.

Why do they deserve to be in America? Why does anything? Because it's American? That's a poor reason.

If you really want these jobs to come back, you'd lobby for a reduction in minimum wage and reductions in taxes to lower cost of living. No call center is going to pay its workers $25,000 a year much less $45,000. Maybe $15,000.

Sweatshop labor is the same as SLAVE LABOR. You should be ashamed of yourself for asking that question.

Highly wrong. Sweat shop labor is paid. Slave is not. Sweat shop laborers can quit any time. Slave labor cannot. Sweat shop labor is often paid excessive amounts more then the local minimum wages. Slave labor isn't paid at all. Sweat shop labor jobs are in high demand from locals. Slave labor isn't.

Sweat shop labor > Prostitution.

No, you changed it, I changed it back.

Show me.

No. It makes you a pro-business neo con who cares more about profits than his own country. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Personal insults are a sign you have no argument.

Again ... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're discussing technical support and the IT industry.

Actually you unilaterally changed the topic.

I still fail to see a reason why we should mandate welfare for inefficient industries. I guess you're against exporting textile jobs too eh?

When you can do something besides tounge the anus of greedy corporate criminals we can finish this conversation. Until then ... spare me your neoconist, anti-American bull****.

LOL. You're funny. At least I'm not promoting welfare.

Vader · Jan 19, 2009

Kandahar said:
Yet ONCE AGAIN you still have not offered a single word of criticism for these same "corporate scumbags" replacing American workers with robots, which causes a lot more job losses than The Big Bad Furriner. Why is this?

Because we are not talking about automation. We're talking about outsourcing.

Kandahar said:
Yet you're OK with them doing the same thing, provided that the job recipient is a robot rather than an Indian.

We're not discussing automation. We're taking about outsourcing and corporate ********ery.

Kandahar said:
So? What's wrong with that? Does automation not increase profits too?

Profit mongering CANNOT be allowed to **** up the economy. **** big business and **** their bonuses. When their greed begins to harm the country then action needs to be taken to stop it.

Kandahar said:
Nations don't usually become wealthy until after they go through a "sweatshop" phase. See the United States, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan for examples. You have the luxury of criticizing "sweatshop labor" on your personal computer from your middle-class home while eating as much as you want, but those people who work in what you term "sweatshops" need those jobs a lot more than Americans do.

WRONG. The American middle class is disappearing because of people like you. America's economy must come first. America firts ... 3rd world sweatshops second.

Americans need those jobs .... those jobs are the key to repairing our economy.

Kandahar said:
It really doesn't matter what industry we're talking about, outsourcing is a net positive across the boar.

A postive for greedy big business assholes who don't give a damn about America. It's a huge negative for everybody else.

Kandahar said:
A) As I've already illustrated, it's impossible to point to any specific act and label it as outsourcing. B) Those foreign workers need the jobs a lot more than you do. C) Companies are under no obligation to provide you with a job. D) There is nothing wrong with them cutting costs to increase their profits. E) Outsourcing makes goods and services cheaper for the end consumer, which raises the standard of living.

A.) No it's not. Limiting the amount labor being outsourced is a good option. Say ... charging big business huge fees (millions per day) for having more than 40% of their work force outsourced outside the country.; B) No they do not. Americans need those jobs because our economy is dying and without work ... the middle class will die off.; C) Your big business buddies better start taking care of those who keep them in busines or they WILL go bankupt.; D) When the economy is being destroyed by it ... THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH IT. Curb your greed before you wipe out the country.; E) Outsoucing makes excecutives richer, middle class people unemployed, and it is hurting the economy.

This does not increase the standard of living ... it makes living impossible.

I find your out of control greed to be very distrubing.

Kandahar said:
Why do they need to be employing American workers first? What makes you so special? And are you gonna define "American companies"?

Because we're Americans and they are American companies. Those jobs should go to Americans. Those companies wouldn't exist with the American people.

Vader · Jan 19, 2009

obvious Child said:
Someone else pointed this out. You are confusing it. Btw, it is common courtesy to actually tell people you're narrowing the subject before doing so. That was quite rude of you.

Calling me a socialist because I do not share your neo-nazi view of business was quite rude but you don't hear me complaing.

Kandahar said:
Companies have one primary duty: increase shareholder wealth. That has never changed and will never change independent of where a firm is located. American companies have no such duty to what you speak of. And why should an American firm go bankrupt trying to compete by hiring works that produce a cost structure that is highly uncompetitive? Guess how firms get around this? By automating and firing their workers.

Spoken like a true corporate nazi.

Kandahar said:
What you propose is to destroy American business by denying their the capacity to reduce their cost structures. SOCIALIST.

No. I am suggesting that American companies not be allowed to participate in the destruction of the middle class. I know the corporate nazi world cannot seem to understand this concept.

Kandahar said:
Explain to me how it is beneficial for workers and American to see firms go bankrupt. Besides, the slow reduction in jobs of certain industries gives America time to retrain for what it does best. America for the most part doesn't make textiles anymore. It designs computer processors. When every country does what it does best, everyone benefits as everyone can buy superior products at low cost. Win-Win in the long run. And you forget that Corporations provide large amounts of money to Americans through dividends not to mention innovation. Pfizer has something like a $9.5 billion R&D budget that it spends primarily in the US.

We're not discussing the big pharmacutical criminals. They need to be forced to put out a generic for every name brand drug. I know you hate this because it curbs your ridiculous greed. I know that makes you angry.... but to bad.

Kandahar said:
You do realize no one takes those seriously when they come from you? I see no reason to keep the middle class working in industries America cannot compete in. Hence why I'm on board with Obama's green energy initiatives. If we can start massive alternative energy industries in America, we can export the knowledge and manufactured products from those industries, and those industries will be solidly middle class. That and I hate petro-dictators.

You do realize you sound like a nazi corporate CEO econo-rapist. People like you are the reason this country is going broke.

Kandahar said:
Why do they deserve to be in America? Why does anything? Because it's American? That's a poor reason.

No, it's not. I am talking about keeping Americans working; thereby keeping America strong.

Kandahar said:
If you really want these jobs to come back, you'd lobby for a reduction in minimum wage and reductions in taxes to lower cost of living. No call center is going to pay its workers $25,000 a year much less $45,000. Maybe $15,000.

Ok. Now I know you're a corporo-facist. Minium wage is NOT the problem. I'll give you that ... the taxes could be lowered; however, you are your kind ARE NOT GOING TO RAPE THE WORKING CLASS FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR ****ING PROFITS.

That is corporo-facism and it is unacceptable. Shame on you. People like you are the reason this country is as ****ed up as it is.

Kandahar said:
Highly wrong. Sweat shop labor is paid. Slave is not. Sweat shop laborers can quit any time. Slave labor cannot. Sweat shop labor is often paid excessive amounts more then the local minimum wages. Slave labor isn't paid at all. Sweat shop labor jobs are in high demand from locals. Slave
labor isn't.

Paying somebody .25 per hour for a 16 hour workday is criminal. It's called usery. In the USA this would be punished severely. This is why the corporate nazi assholes send these jobs overseas.

Kandahar said:
Sweat shop labor > Prostitution.

We're not talking about the welfare of the 3rd world sewers that are getting America jobs.

Do try to stay on topic.

Kandahar said:
Show me.

I already have.

Kandahar said:
Personal insults are a sign you have no argument.

Then why are you calling me a socialist?

Kandahar said:
Actually you unilaterally changed the topic.

No, I didn't.

Kandahar said:
I still fail to see a reason why we should mandate welfare for inefficient industries. I guess you're against exporting textile jobs too eh?

Welfare is given to people who are not working as a handout. What I am suggesting is putting Americns to work. Therefore, by definition IT IS NOT WELFARE.

I think you need to get a dictionary and look up welfare because you clearly have no idea what "welfare" is.

Kandahar said:
LOL. You're funny. At least I'm not promoting welfare.

No, you're advocating the rape of the Ameriucan people for the sake of profit.

Kandahar · Jan 19, 2009

Vader said:
Because we are not talking about automation. We're talking about outsourcing.

We're not discussing automation. We're taking about outsourcing and corporate ********ery.

The subject of this thread is both automation AND outsourcing. So just to make things clear: Do you have a problem with those "greedy corporate scumbags" buying one backhoe instead of hiring ten ditchdiggers? Yes or no? And why or why not?

Vader said:
Profit mongering CANNOT be allowed to **** up the economy. **** big business and **** their bonuses. When their greed begins to harm the country then action needs to be taken to stop it.

The irony here is quite rich. What do you think DRIVES our economy? What you derisively refer to as "profit-mongering."

Vader said:
WRONG. The American middle class is disappearing because of people like you. America's economy must come first. America firts ... 3rd world sweatshops second.

Americans need those jobs .... those jobs are the key to repairing our economy.

You know how ridiculously self-centered you sound right now? There are people in Asia who are thrilled to work at one of those "sweatshops" because without them they'll live in completely squalid conditions. Whatever happens to your job, you have it a hell of a lot better than they do.

Vader said:
A postive for greedy big business assholes who don't give a damn about America. It's a huge negative for everybody else.

Why SHOULD they give a damn about America? They're in business to make money.

Vader said:
A.) No it's not. Limiting the amount labor being outsourced is a good option. Say ... charging big business huge fees (millions per day) for having more than 40% of their work force outsourced outside the country.;

How absurd. So if I run a European travel agency, I should be required to have 60% of my jobs in this country?

Vader said:
B) No they do not. Americans need those jobs because our economy is dying and without work ... the middle class will die off.; C) Your big business buddies better start taking care of those who keep them in busines or they WILL go bankupt.; D) When the economy is being destroyed by it ... THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH IT. Curb your greed before you wipe out the country.; E) Outsoucing makes excecutives richer, middle class people unemployed, and it is hurting the economy.

This does not increase the standard of living ... it makes living impossible.

I find your out of control greed to be very distrubing.

Everything in this paragraph is pure emotion. Not one attempt at logic or reason.

Vader said:
Because we're Americans and they are American companies. Those jobs should go to Americans. Those companies wouldn't exist with the American people.

I'm still waiting for you to define "American companies."

UtahBill · Jan 19, 2009

I know someone who invented a product that is made in a chinese factory. He says he agonized about using "sweat shop" labor, until someone else explained to him that he is providing a stepping stone for the chinese people. You can't step in and pay them high wages at the start, that would disrupt their economy.
As for some Americans being greedy, that is very true and is also disruptive, but to OUR economy.
American consumers used to try to buy mostly American made products, but we no longer have as many choices as we did 50 years ago. If you want a digital camera, or almost anything electronic, you will buy a foreign made product. But if you want a car, we still have a choice.
I have never purchased a foreign car, but if I ever do, it will be from an allied country. Actually, the only one I ever liked is the Jaguar anyway. When I buy major appliances, I ask where it was made. If it was made in North America, that is what I will buy. I have no problems buying from immediate neighbors.
I will always try to avoid buying anything made in China or Japan, etc. as long as there is am American choice in the mix.
And I will also always try to avoid dealing with greedy American businesses who send jobs overseas that can be done here.

ronpaulvoter · Apr 9, 2009

The PRIMARY reason for job losses is too much GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION--federal, state, and local. Some of the reasons are listed below.

Minimum wages
Licensure
Safety regulations
Environmental regulations
Numerous other regulations
Mandated insurance
Mandated health care (in some cases)
Other mandates
Restrictions
Corporate welfare
Excessive taxes
Paternalism
Micromanagement
Meddling in general

Kandahar · Apr 9, 2009

ronpaulvoter said:
The PRIMARY reason for job losses is too much GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION--federal, state, and local. Some of the reasons are listed below.

Minimum wages
Licensure
Safety regulations
Environmental regulations
Numerous other regulations
Mandated insurance
Mandated health care (in some cases)
Other mandates
Restrictions
Corporate welfare
Excessive taxes
Paternalism
Micromanagement
Meddling in general

Did you really just dig up a three month old thread to post boilerplate rhetoric that may as well have been cut-and-pasted from any other libertarian source?

celticlord · Apr 9, 2009

The primary source of job loss is getting fired.

Scarecrow Akhbar · Apr 9, 2009

Khayembii Communique said:
What does this mean? The employee is pretty bound by his working conditions on how "productive" he can be.

Right. Automation improves his productivity, thereby allowing his employer the ability to offer him increased wages.

Ethereal · Apr 9, 2009

Kandahar said:
Did you really just dig up a three month old thread to post boilerplate rhetoric that may as well have been cut-and-pasted from any other libertarian source?

I'm glad he did otherwise I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reading your shining defense of free-trade and capitalism. Good show.

UNNACCEPTABLE!!!

Kandahar · Apr 9, 2009

Ethereal said:
I'm glad he did otherwise I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reading your shining defense of free-trade and capitalism. Good show.

UNNACCEPTABLE!!!

Free trade is the single most important economic policy for a nation's long-term success IMO. People can quibble about whether the top tax rate should be 35% or 39%, but that's trivial compared to the enormous effect of free trade. I don't understand why anyone would want protectionist policies which would destroy our trade with the rest of the world.

WI Crippler · Apr 9, 2009

Kandahar said:
Free trade is the single most important economic policy for a nation's long-term success IMO. People can quibble about whether the top tax rate should be 35% or 39%, but that's trivial compared to the enormous effect of free trade. I don't understand why anyone would want protectionist policies which would destroy our trade with the rest of the world.

Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.

celticlord · Apr 9, 2009

WI Crippler said:
Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.

Depends on whose free trade. Free trade where we pay no tariffs to export is fine and dandy. Free trade where we levy no tariffs on imports is rather more troublesome. Switch the "we" to the nationality of your choice and the relationship still holds.

Kandahar · Apr 9, 2009

WI Crippler said:
Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.

Some of them go off the deep end and think that FTAs are a conspiracy to implement a one-world government. Or they harbor the fantasy that we can have free trade without free trade agreements.

What the world needs are more FTAs like NAFTA and the EU. I would love to see the United States work with other nations to develop a FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and a free trade agreement with Japan and the EU.

Kandahar · Apr 9, 2009

celticlord said:
Depends on whose free trade. Free trade where we pay no tariffs to export is fine and dandy. Free trade where we levy no tariffs on imports is rather more troublesome. Switch the "we" to the nationality of your choice and the relationship still holds.

If we are levying tariffs on our imports, other nations WILL retaliate by charging tariffs on our exports. Everyone wins when no one has any trade barriers...and a free trade agreement is the best way to accomplish that.

Primary Source of Job Losses

The primary source of job losses is...

Technology (Automation)

Offshoring (Outsourcing)

Other

Enemy Combatant

Equal Opportunity Hater

Equal Opportunity Hater

Equal Opportunity Hater

Enemy Combatant

Well-known member

Enemy Combatant

Well-known member

Enemy Combatant

Well-known member

Enemy Combatant

Enemy Combatant