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Primary Source of Job Losses

The primary source of job losses is...


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Depriving Americans of jobs that pay $14.00 per hour so that some 3rd world county employee can make $1.73 each week for the same work is UNACCEPTABLE.

It needs to be outlawed.

You probably know this would create a chain reaction which would DEFINITELY collapse the US economy and the world economy?

Imagine if computers were to be made in the US for example.. A laptop would end up costing something like 25.000 USD, if even it could be made at all.
 
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Depriving Americans of jobs that pay $14.00 per hour so that some 3rd world county employee can make $1.73 each week for the same work is UNACCEPTABLE.

It needs to be outlawed.

I think the question being posed here is; how do you feel about automation?
When we bring all these textile jobs back to the states, should we also mandate all clothing be sewn by hand? That would certainly produce more jobs here in the states, right?
 
Depriving Americans of jobs that pay $14.00 per hour so that some 3rd world county employee can make $1.73 each week for the same work is UNACCEPTABLE.

It needs to be outlawed.

This makes no sense. Forcing companies to pay Americans high wages results in their firms going bankrupt and them losing their jobs. Furthermore, if you force us to buy their products we end up paying more for inferior goods. This happened after Bush enacted tariffs on steel. Quality went down and prices went up.

And you clearly ignore how allowing countries to develop creates markets for our goods.

If an American wants to get paid 10 times as much as a foreign worker, they have to be 10 times as efficient. Welcome to technology.
 
You still need people to design, build, and maintain the machines. The tech industry employs millions of people, I seriously doubt that technology results in less jobs.

You're missing something key. Automated telephone boards resulted in thousands of telephone operators being fired. One backhoe eliminated hundreds of diggers. One long shore man in a crane eliminated thousands of off loaders. Automated payroll systems got rid of plenty of book keepers. The computer annihilated the type writer industry.

This isn't a discussion about net jobs as we all know that technology can create jobs. It's about whether or not outsourcing rather then technology is a bigger detriment to jobs losses.

NAFTA cost the US 250,000 jobs in total. That's about the normal amount lost in an average economy in a few months due to normal business factors. How many manual labor jobs did automation destroy overall? Got to be in the hundreds of millions over time.
 
You're missing something key. Automated telephone boards resulted in thousands of telephone operators being fired. One backhoe eliminated hundreds of diggers. One long shore man in a crane eliminated thousands of off loaders. Automated payroll systems got rid of plenty of book keepers. The computer annihilated the type writer industry.

This isn't a discussion about net jobs as we all know that technology can create jobs. It's about whether or not outsourcing rather then technology is a bigger detriment to jobs losses.

NAFTA cost the US 250,000 jobs in total. That's about the normal amount lost in an average economy in a few months due to normal business factors. How many manual labor jobs did automation destroy overall? Got to be in the hundreds of millions over time.

considering we only have a work force of about a third of our population, just guessing, I would say that automation is a good thing. To produce what we do without machinery is impossible.
Those Luddites among us who want to go back to the family farm with the chickens and the outhouses, have at it. But do it honestly, no electricity and use an ox team to plow...l.:2razz:
 
The fix is simple. Get government out of the way and let the market do it.
 
I can't quite say, but the increases in gas and power prices have certainly put a strain on the average consumer, and poor business management has forced more than one large company to lay off large parts of the workforce.
Also, the tendancy to "play" the stockmarket according to presumed and estimated worth over actual capital and gains tends to overinflate it, causing these huge crashes that sends everyone into a panic that spirals into these depressions.

When the average person has to scrimp and pinch each penny to make their house payment, this causes companies to start losing money, people go into bankruptcy because they can't pay the loans they had to take out in order to simply get by, which causes banks problems, which causes people seeking loans problems getting them... etc.
 
This makes no sense. Forcing companies to pay Americans high wages results in their firms going bankrupt and them losing their jobs. Furthermore, if you force us to buy their products we end up paying more for inferior goods. This happened after Bush enacted tariffs on steel. Quality went down and prices went up.

And you clearly ignore how allowing countries to develop creates markets for our goods.

If an American wants to get paid 10 times as much as a foreign worker, they have to be 10 times as efficient. Welcome to technology.


I do not agree.

I am saying that certain jobs ... like technical support for software products needs to be kept in the Uniteed States.

Microsoft and various other compaines sent these jobs overseas to save on wages and benefits. This is unacceptable.

These jobs need to be returned to the United States. The US needs to make laws which prohibit the outsourcing of these types of jobs.

Americans first.

Those jobs belong in the United States. Big business cannot be allowed to sacrifice jobs in this country so they can increase the size of their quarterly bonus.

This is unacceptable.
 
There's nothing wrong with outsourcing. It places a burden on the employee to do something beyond work in a factory line but also makes our country rich and common conveniences easily attainable.

I disagree.

It takes the bread right out of the mouths of the American working class.

Things like software tech support need to be exempt from outsourcing.

Those are non-manufacturing jobs that Americans can be doing. Allowing those to be outsourced so that a group of corporate jackals can increase the size of thier quarterly bonuses is unacceptable.

The corporate numb-nuttery needs to be stoped.

Outsourcing these types of positions needs to be outlawed.
 
Since that plant is in another country -- Yes, it is outsourcing. American companies need to be employing Americans first. PERIOD.

And how do you propose to ban outsourcing? The company in my example could easily make a plausible argument that the layoff in Detroit and the hiring in Shanghai were just coincidences. Or are you saying that American companies should be banned from branching out to other countries altogether? :shock:

By the way, could you please define "American companies"? Is Ford an American company? Many of their cars are produced entirely in Brazil. Is Toyota an American company? They have many plants in the United States with central management in Japan. Is Lenovo an American company? It has headquarters in both China and the United States. Is Accenture an American company? It is owned by Americans, has an American CEO, has most of its offices in the United States, and employs mostly Americans, but is headquartered in Bermuda.

Vader said:
Ummm... No.

It's a great thing for other counties because they get jobs for their people. Likewise, the American people are going hungry because their jobs are being shipped to some 3rd world ****hole so some corporate ********er can save on wages and pocket the difference by way of a bonus.

The United States has been outsourcing jobs since the pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. Yet we have the most vibrant economy in the world, recent troubles aside.

Vader said:
No.

Anything that involves shipping jobs overseas needs to be outlawed. American corporations need to be employing Americans first. PERIOD ... END OF STORY.

And yet, strangely, you have not a word of criticism for robots taking American jobs, despite the fact that automation displaces a lot more workers than outsourcing. Are furriners just an easier target than robots?

Vader said:
Trade is fine.

Corporate ****nobs shipping jobs overseas to save money on salaries and benefits is not.

That makes no sense. What do you think trade *is*?

Vader said:
I advocate an AMERICANS FIRST policy in business. This does not mean that I would choose an American over somebody else if the job in question was in the United States (unless that person was illegal).

I simply believe that business needs to be barred from causing abject poverty in America by sending jobs overseas.

American corporations need to be severely punished for outsourcing jobs solely for saving money.

I realize Republicans and NeoCons will not agree because they are all about big bonuses earned by corporate downsizing.

If you think I am a Republican or a neocon, then you must not have read very many of my posts. Any real liberal supports free trade, despite what the UAW might tell you.
 
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I do not agree.

I am saying that certain jobs ... like technical support for software products needs to be kept in the Uniteed States.

Microsoft and various other compaines sent these jobs overseas to save on wages and benefits. This is unacceptable.

These jobs need to be returned to the United States. The US needs to make laws which prohibit the outsourcing of these types of jobs.

Americans first.

Those jobs belong in the United States. Big business cannot be allowed to sacrifice jobs in this country so they can increase the size of their quarterly bonus.

This is unacceptable.

Why? What gives Americans an inherent right to have those jobs? They didn't have those jobs BEFORE Microsoft provided them, so why should they expect Microsoft to continue providing them forever?

This sense of entitlement is deadly to our economy, because protectionism costs jobs, wastes money, lowers the standard of living, and harms our relations with other countries.
 
You may not be aware of this, but productivity varies greatly from person to person. This is due to their abilities, mainly the amount of effort put forth. Employees who strive to do their job well and improve efficiency are valuable, those who do not are far more likely to be let go if situations change.Thanks to many of the unions, this is not so. In many case, they have bred and encouraged mediocitcy..
The "old time" unions must change and improve or they, and their industries must go..
I do not advocate that unions in general are bad; but those that do live in the past must reform..
A man with good productivity indirectly creates more jobs, maybe not immediately nor in the same industry..
 
Outside of cyclical job losses, which do you think is the primary source of job losses:

Technology (automation)

Or

Outsourcing

The Outsorcing of Jobs to China and India is the greatest problem in West countries.Maybe in 20 years we'll have no jobs for educated people more, becuse the guys from Asia earn only 1K in year.
 
I do not agree.

Largely because you do not understand.

I am saying that certain jobs ... like technical support for software products needs to be kept in the Uniteed States.

Why? If another country can do it better, faster and cheaper, why should we force American citizens to pay more for inferior goods?

Microsoft and various other compaines sent these jobs overseas to save on wages and benefits. This is unacceptable.

Because....? If Americans want to get paid 10 times they need to be 10 times as efficient.

Furthermore many firms send jobs overseas because they can effectively operate a 24 hour workday. That's powerful stuff.

These jobs need to be returned to the United States. The US needs to make laws which prohibit the outsourcing of these types of jobs.

So you are saying that the US government should mandate that Americans be forced to pay for inferior goods at higher prices merely so that their fellow citizens can have a job?

That's welfare.

You keep saying it's unacceptable but you give absolutely no reason why we should do it other then for welfare reasons.
 
considering we only have a work force of about a third of our population, just guessing, I would say that automation is a good thing. To produce what we do without machinery is impossible.

In the long run automation is excellent (unless you're a Terminator believer). And it has allowed US firms to export automation products and know how. However, automation has destroyed many jobs. Why hire 100 diggers when you can do it with one guy operating a backhoe?

Those Luddites among us who want to go back to the family farm with the chickens and the outhouses, have at it. But do it honestly, no electricity and use an ox team to plow...l.:2razz:

Pretty much. If you want to see massive job increases in America, you'd first cut us off from world trade and then ban technology. Lots of manual labor would be needed to fill the gap.
 
Shucks, I was going to reply but Kandahar and OC have done such a good Job, I'll just watch for now!
 
I'd still like to see an argument for outsourcing rather then technology when NAFTA has been estimated since 1993 to have a total job reduction in the US between 250,000 and 525,000. Since 2006 that's about 43,750 losses a year or about 3,645 a month for 12 years.

Really. :rofl
 
I stated "Outside of cyclical job losses."

I'd argue that automation kills jobs. Why bother hiring 100 men to dig a trench when one guy at a machine can do the job? Why hire 100 women to operate a telephone system when a machine with a part time technician can do the job? Why hire legal researchers when a database and intern can do it? Technology has always been a great way to reduce labor costs.

...and outsource ,to have the technologies replaceing people ,manufactured. I agree 100% with you but close behind is the money whores of Wall Street,corporate leaders,and investors turning their back on WE the PEOPLE. I am very well educated ,and very talented ,and very unemployed ,and very very angree at the money whores. By any other name ....
 
...and outsource ,to have the technologies replaceing people ,manufactured. I agree 100% with you but close behind is the money whores of Wall Street,corporate leaders,and investors turning their back on WE the PEOPLE. I am very well educated ,and very talented ,and very unemployed ,and very very angree at the money whores. By any other name ....

there was a segment on TV news show the other night, saying that a lot of jobs held by those with degrees can be done right out of high school, that the colleges recruit the lesser qualified for money. They promise the kids that a degree will get them more money, but the jobs just are not there.
Plus, a degree means nothing if you are fat or unattractive...the skinny and pretty get the jobs first....
 
there was a segment on TV news show the other night, saying that a lot of jobs held by those with degrees can be done right out of high school, that the colleges recruit the lesser qualified for money. They promise the kids that a degree will get them more money, but the jobs just are not there.
Plus, a degree means nothing if you are fat or unattractive...the skinny and pretty get the jobs first....

I can`t agree more with you,(or the news source you quoted),as I have a hand full of these very same degrees. Dumbass that I am ,I re-enter college ,March 9,in the "astronomicly high paying field" of ,"Software Applications". I want to go to war with the Money Whores,and all they do is sit their fat asses at a computer and rip off America. The war ,if I had my druthers ,would not be on a keyboard. Lock up the money whores,the problem goes away. Unfair trade alone is cripling the US at a rate of hundreds of billions of dollars per qtr. Does anyone care...,I can`t tell if they actually do. Solution,(without killing the money whores),BALANCE TRADE...poof problem solved. The money whores would lose their shirts ,but We the People" would have our jobs back. EDIT: end affirmative action...,"grads get jobs".
 
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I can`t agree more with you,(or the news source you quoted),as I have a hand full of these very same degrees. Dumbass that I am ,I re-enter college ,March 9,in the "astronomicly high paying field" of ,"Software Applications". I want to go to war with the Money Whores,and all they do is sit their fat asses at a computer and rip off America. The war ,if I had my druthers ,would not be on a keyboard. Lock up the money whores,the problem goes away. Unfair trade alone is cripling the US at a rate of hundreds of billions of dollars per qtr. Does anyone care...,I can`t tell if they actually do. Solution,(without killing the money whores),BALANCE TRADE...poof problem solved. The money whores would lose their shirts ,but We the People" would have our jobs back. EDIT: end affirmative action...,"grads get jobs".

The whole attitude of people today that profit making is a bad thing is completely assine. "Lock up the money whores", who exactly are you defining as a "Money Whore". I am partial to a collection of cash myself so would I be in this category? Who should be locked up or killed? It would seem to me, if we lock up or kill the people making profits, failure is imminent.
As far as you balanced trade concept, no action is going to provide a "poof" problem solved. I believe this is one reason we are having difficulty now. Everyone is looking for that one thing, the "smoking gun", that caused or will fix the problem. It doesn't exist. Many factors went into causing the mess, many need to be considered when resolving the mess. One last thing, If the "Money Whores" lose their shirts, who is going to pay the people for working these jobs that are going to come back here?
 
My thought on the true cause of job loss in the United States is corporate greed.

Outsourcing outside the United States needs to be outlawed. This will make it impossible for disgusting, greedy, corporate asshats to send American jobs overseas.

This will keep Americans working and stimulate the economy in the process.
No, the companies will just move out completely. It's government greed, wrongheaded regulation, and the pathetic public education system that causes jobs losses and lack of new jobs in the US.
 
The whole attitude of people today that profit making is a bad thing is completely assine. "Lock up the money whores", who exactly are you defining as a "Money Whore". I am partial to a collection of cash myself so would I be in this category? Who should be locked up or killed? It would seem to me, if we lock up or kill the people making profits, failure is imminent.
As far as you balanced trade concept, no action is going to provide a "poof" problem solved. I believe this is one reason we are having difficulty now. Everyone is looking for that one thing, the "smoking gun", that caused or will fix the problem. It doesn't exist. Many factors went into causing the mess, many need to be considered when resolving the mess. One last thing, If the "Money Whores" lose their shirts, who is going to pay the people for working these jobs that are going to come back here?

The money whores he refers to are most likely the financiers whose jobs have nothing to do with creating jobs, but creating wealth for insiders who do nothing more than manipulate the markets. Bill Gates is filthy rich, but he deserves it. Bernie Madoff is, or lived, filthy rich, but he stole it.
Greed is stupid. You can only spend so much. What is the point being a billionaire if all you do is hoard it?
 
The money whores he refers to are most likely the financiers whose jobs have nothing to do with creating jobs, but creating wealth for insiders who do nothing more than manipulate the markets. Bill Gates is filthy rich, but he deserves it. Bernie Madoff is, or lived, filthy rich, but he stole it.
Greed is stupid. You can only spend so much. What is the point being a billionaire if all you do is hoard it?

So where would the people that create the jobs get the money to operate without these people?

and I don't believe that is what he is the only people he is referring to Money whores, but we can wait and see what he says.
 
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So where would the people that create the jobs get the money to operate without these people?

and I don't believe that is what he is the only people he is referring to Money whores, but we can wait and see what he says.

MONEY WHORE... mostly it just feels good to go on the attack of people who destroyed the economy. The common money whores were the people shot ,beaten,kicked into the gutter and his factory burned,in the late 1800s. Why? His filthy greed in dealing with the American worker of the day...18 hrs on,6...7 days a week,company store pay out,No Fairness...little concern for work conditions. Fairness isn`t a guarantee in this country ,but there are laws which attempt to level the exchange rate (wages) fairness in labor... they call them labor laws...there are departments called labor wage and hour. There is even a little respected law called ,The Fair Trade Act"...seldom respected ,or honored ,because fairness limits profits. A money whore isn`t fair . A money whore see`s the American labor camp as pathetic greedy little pss-ants that cost `corprate` profits. The money whore IS the cause of this round of economic colapse. The MONEY WHORE needs to be subdued at every turn,every step of the way,every dollar...Not controlled , just reminded of the need for fair exchange rates,because when it gets THIS far out of balance , the current situation arises. Banks collapse,Factories close,People can`t buy the cars,homes,food,goods or services and many many more things that compose a functional economy. It certainly is this simple all else is,"baffle and bull ****"...blather to hide the truth,and staying the course of excess,greed,social decay,hatred ,rage...ALL for profit. If none of this makes sense to you,or you just think I`m being fussy , you are probably a money whore. If you should happen to agree ,at least in principle",you are not a money whore( no matter how rich you are),and you are likely to become an important part of the solution ,and I hope richer ,provided you are compliant in the fairness and viability of the people and economy of America. Please...no offense intended. MONEY WHORE is a reference I began useing after become economicly,"not viable", with very great skills and conciderable education. I was ready to die for this country when I enlisted to fight any and every entity which would harm or send this country off into history. Here we are . My first volley is to assign fault and give it a name. Please help us ...WE the PEOPLE are dieing here. Thank You.
 
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