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Are Americans "allergic" to realities about America which are negative?

Are Americans "allergic" to negatives realities about the US?


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Because it is?



Such as?



Ummm no they don't. Name me a single country that practices 'communism' and hasn't turned it into a ****hole. Cuba, North Korea, China. All nightmares in the political world. No dissidence allowed. No real freedom of speech or unjustified government persecution. The majority of posters here weren't alive to see Cuba go from Capitalist dream to Communist hellhole. However we're seeing it in Venezuela and most of us are already weary of what 'socialism' and 'communism' do to a society. It enslaves them for the good of everyone else. I'm not talking about making something like health care universal. I'm talking about all the other **** that 'communists' do.



Could be because you are indeed anti-American. Or are we going to pretend like none of us here have read your posts for the last 2 years?

Exactly my point.. everything else is bad and not worth even learning from.. Its those kind of attitudes that create extremism and singularity.

You think nothing about communism is good?
You think nothing about socialism is good?

As I said before, I am pro-American, I just want a stable and progressive America, and when its as unstable and as dysfunctional as it is now, I will surely comment those things, since the majority of my writings in such times are negative, then you might conceive that as anti-Americanism.
Perhaps you should rather try to listen to what I have to teach you?

I watch news and follow politics in 5 languages regularly and from many national papers and sources. I follow politics, news and economics from a variety of sources from many nations in about 7 different languages in total, altogether..

How many do you? From how many countries perspectives?

I constantly and deeply every day follow news from 3 languages from 5 or more different national perspectives. I would guess a majority of American(who are now criticizing me) get their news in one language, at best 2, from one national perspective or at best 2 or 3.

Is this relevant? yes..
 
And so this brings us to the last spin by Zeebra on the matter. Socialism and Communism being 'anti-American'. Of COURSE Socialism and Communism are anti-American. Name me a single country who's adopted true Socialism and Communism and hasnt been Anti-American or for that matter anti-West? You can't.

I can. Most European countries are socialist-capitalist nations. My country Norway is very socialist, more than capitalist. Even though it is, it is probably the most pro-American country in Europe.
 
I NEVER draw the "anti-European" card, and sure a LOT of people here whine and tells me how bad socialism is and how much better the US is than France in particular, or Europe. I never draw an "anti-France" card, and those comments are mostly more invalid and anti-French than any of my American comments. My American comments are based on news and perspectives in politics, I am not just saying it because I want to bash America, if I wanted to do that I would just list all the negative things about the US, which I certainly do not.

If I am anti-America, then I am certainly anti-European and anti-Norwegian and anti-French as well, because I have equal opinions on those pathetic political systems as I do the pathetic political system in the US, and the pathetic ways the economies are built and managed. As for Norway, I even have worse opinions about Norwegian politics and governance than the US. The US at least does something right, Norway doesn't do ANYTHING right, the politicians I mean.


Being anti-Norwegian is pretty pointless since Norway is... well... Norway. :2razz:



Seriously though, what you are doing in this pol is generalizing Americans, not American politics. You are saying that we are allergic to criticisms of America, and that calling out an anti-American bias from a poster is a "card" that we play.

If someone is anti-American, stating that they are is nothing more than an exposure of bias.

Saying a specific poster is Anti-Norwegian, or Anti-france is not a card to play, it is simply an exposure of their biases.

If someone is unaware of their own biases, this exposure is good for them, because all posters have biases. The one's who are aware of them will expect that card to be played against tehm.

I, for example, admittedly have an anti-federalist bias. I am in favor of smaller govenremnt because I am rabidly against the sheer incompetance of large scale governemnt.

I am aware of these biases so I am especially cognizant that many of my posts could be called such. And they would be called such a thing FAIRLY.

Bitching about the fact that you get called anti-American is akin to denying that bias.

If enough people simply deny any arguments you make because they view your posts as anti-American, perhaps that is a sign that your aproach is flawed, not their reception. Perhaps you ARE guilty of over-generalizing America? Maybe that is the causal factor of the response, not some inherent flaw in the posters from the States or a flaw that Americans in general have.

If your posts apear to be a constant littany of bashing the US in general, instead of focussing primarily on teh American policies, you will have that stigma attached to you.


I mean, when you title a thread "Why I hate America" you can be assured that people are going to react with a visceral animosity towards you specifically and ignore the points you are attempting to make because of the flawed approach.

People in the US identify themselves as "America", We do not identify the government as "America"; We do not identify a land mass as "America". When we see someone stating things like "I hate America" what we really see is "I hate YOU" written there.

Right or wrong, this is part and parcel with democracy and the American spirit. We think of ourselves as America, and we're proud of it, even when we are ashamed of our governemnt.
 
Your comments here suggest that you really have no real impressions of Americans, just gross caricatures based on...well, I don't know what you're basing it on.

Based on following American politics and news for the last 15-20 or so years of my 25 year old life. After all I learned English from the age of 7, and from about the age of 15 I even followed American news and politics from the same sources as you.. I bet you cannot say the same about Europe and your perspectives on the world or Europe(which I also follow in a handful of languages and a cousin or so countries from the same perspectives as them)..
 
But, but, but...you're missing all the good things that come with socialism and communism...

Little to no political dissent.
The government can take immediate action.
Days-long lines for food staples.
Health care for everyone.

LMAO!!!




Word!

I could mention that the longest line for food stamps is in America.. ;)
 
No, you're sharing your perception of American attitudes.

Do not pretend otherwise.



I see, so you're telling us that you have a unique stranglehold on the truth about Americans because you're one of those tough guys who call another person a name while standing in front of them. Color me underwhelmed.



But you just said you were speaking the "truth." Now it's merely stating a "concern."

Equivocate, much?



But you have not established that this "reality" exists?

You've simply appealed to it as though it does exist to ask a rhetorical question that amounts to nothing more than calling Americans slaves to victimhood.

Now you are not saying anything worth commenting except.. The reality.. I can say the exact same things about you that you say about me, your so called reality is just your perception and opinions.. Why is this relevant? It isnt.

Who cares anyways?
 
It goes so much deeper than that.

Nah, it really doesnt.. I am on this forum to discuss what is going on in this ****ty world, but since its mostly an American forum I mainly discuss American, European and global issues. I do not dive into national issues about Norway or Sweden or Slovenia or anything like that, because most of you dont know anything about that. So naturally I talk about American issues, and yes, I speak and understand English, and yes, I watch American news media and sources, I follow American politics and economic news.. Why is my "outside perspective", less valid than your "inside perspective"?
 
Well, yes. You "initiated this as a criticism towards someone" the "someone" being "Americans." If it was not intended to be a criticism of Americans for pulling the victim card, well, I am baffled...

Oh yeah, that's right...you were just citing a "concern."

Do you have a habit of lying to yourself?

Did I now? Thats your valid opinion and perspective.. I am going to be a bigger man than you and accept them and take them into consideration rather than answer in the same fashion you do towards mine.
 
Health care for everyone.

This is not actually a 'socialist' concept. It is a leftist one. People shouldn't die because they can't afford to be treated.
 
Nah, it really doesnt.. I am on this forum to discuss what is going on in this ****ty world, but since its mostly an American forum I mainly discuss American, European and global issues. I do not dive into national issues about Norway or Sweden or Slovenia or anything like that, because most of you dont know anything about that. So naturally I talk about American issues, and yes, I speak and understand English, and yes, I watch American news media and sources, I follow American politics and economic news.. Why is my "outside perspective", less valid than your "inside perspective"?

Your perspective is not what we find invalid. It's your presentation and obsession with bringing that negative perspective to every discussion.
 
Being anti-Norwegian is pretty pointless since Norway is... well... Norway. :2razz:

I am only anti-Norwegian in the same way you people describe me as anti-American. In reality I am pro-Norwegian and pro-American.


Seriously though, what you are doing in this pol is generalizing Americans, not American politics. You are saying that we are allergic to criticisms of America, and that calling out an anti-American bias from a poster is a "card" that we play.

I am not generalizing about Americans in the purpose of this thread, it was a general question!

Saying a specific poster is Anti-Norwegian, or Anti-france is not a card to play, it is simply an exposure of their biases.

By the same criteria many of you use to brand me anti-America, I could easily brand most of you people anti-French.


If someone is unaware of their own biases, this exposure is good for them, because all posters have biases. The one's who are aware of them will expect that card to be played against tehm..

I am aware of my biases. I am very biased against what America is becoming, compared to what it was 10-20 years ago.

Bitching about the fact that you get called anti-American is akin to denying that bias.

This thread has nothing to do with me, its a general question. I never bitch about the anti-American card, except I have perhaps mentioned it in a few posts where it was used unfairly.


If enough people simply deny any arguments you make because they view your posts as anti-American, perhaps that is a sign that your aproach is flawed, not their reception. Perhaps you ARE guilty of over-generalizing America? Maybe that is the causal factor of the response, not some inherent flaw in the posters from the States or a flaw that Americans in general have.

My approach is definitely flawed. I am terrible at uttering my opinions in the same way I think them, not only written, but also in spoken interaction. I am a thinker, not a writer(nor talker), my writing is pretty much crappy and hastily done in most cases(because of other pressing issues in my life), but in most cases my opinions are about 75% correctly represented by what I write, then minus all the spelling and general grammatical errors I may have made that perhaps also have made it difficult to understand what I am actually saying, or really mean by what I am saying. Remember, English is only a language which fights with Swedish as being my second language(among also a handful of others I have to learn better or keep fluent).

If your posts apear to be a constant littany of bashing the US in general, instead of focussing primarily on teh American policies, you will have that stigma attached to you.

This is an American forum... I am not bashing the US at all. I am just describing another perspective of the reality about it than most of you have, because I follow the US from the outside(and inside), while you guys follow it from the inside. I also follow many other countries on other languages in the same way!


I mean, when you title a thread "Why I hate America" you can be assured that people are going to react with a visceral animosity towards you specifically and ignore the points you are attempting to make because of the flawed approach.

I bet you do not remember the end of that thread... The title was meant to get reactions.. The end said something along the lines of, "but in the end I do not hate America at all"..

Right or wrong, this is part and parcel with democracy and the American spirit. We think of ourselves as America, and we're proud of it, even when we are ashamed of our governemnt.

I usually never criticize Americans in general.. Perhaps I sometimes critisize a group of people at most(like Republicans).. I think in terms of American politics, American economy, American landmass, not just landmass.
 
Your perspective is not what we find invalid. It's your presentation and obsession with bringing that negative perspective to every discussion.

I am not the most elegant dancer either...

I am very bad at explaining my views, for that I truly apologize, that I cannot help. I am more of a thinker than a writer or even talker.. I have never been able to properly talk or write my complex ways of thinking, and have lately come to the conclusions that words and the spoken language is far to poor to even describe thoughts accurately or as grand or refined or perfect as thoughts.
 
Are Americans "allergic" and get "seizures" if someone mentions a reality about America which isnt positive?

No, but some members of the hive mind seem to think it was wrong to liberate Iraq to comply with UN resolutions, like H32 of 687, which required Iraq not to support terrorism as a condition of cease-fire.

We are not the only ones guilty of the “lukewarm ‘liberal’ arts of war,” of Oil for Food and “Peace” for Greed on the backs of slaves, using a Wesley Clark “cork in the bottle” for ethnic cleansing of Shiites from self-determination to contain the French Whine in violation of the United Nations (of tyrants too) Charter.

arrival%20iran.jpg

Air France is so nice.

“Glory be to the Bomb, and to the Holy Fallout. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen.”

In various ways we Americans both liberal and otherwise attack our own often, it is the only way we can get changes.

If you vote where you live, we will listen. If you do not vote where you live, like the majority of the planet earth’s population, and have nothing but attacks on us, we will not care what you say and it will seem like an allergy when your glorious leader speaks.
 
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No, but some members of the hive mind seem to think it was wrong to liberate Iraq to comply with UN resolutions, like H32 of 687, which required Iraq not to support terrorism as a condition of cease-fire.

We are not the only ones guilty of the “lukewarm ‘liberal’ arts of war,” of Oil for Food and “Peace” for Greed on the backs of slaves, using a Wesley Clark “cork in the bottle” for ethnic cleansing of Shiites from self-determination to contain the French Whine in violation of the United Nations (of tyrants too) Charter.

arrival%20iran.jpg

Air France is so nice.

“Glory be to the Bomb, and to the Holy Fallout. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen.”

In various ways we Americans both liberal and otherwise attack our own often, it is the only way we can get changes.

If you vote where you live, we will listen. If you do not vote where you live, like the majority of the planet earth’s population, and have nothing but attacks on us, we will not care what you say and it will seem like an allergy when your glorious leader speaks.

Source that this plane is air france..
:lol::lol:
You are anti-French..

:lol::lol:

Why do you want on one hand to "comply" with UN article while on the other hand you say the UN is corrupt when you have to follow their conduct?
 
I am only anti-Norwegian in the same way you people describe me as anti-American. In reality I am pro-Norwegian and pro-American.

See, I actually believe that you are pro-American, even though some people don't. I think it really is an approach issue.

And my anti-Norway comment was just a joke. I have a disease that makes me make stupid jokes almost constantly. It's called "An Irish Heritage" :mrgreen:


I am not generalizing about Americans in the purpose of this thread, it was a general question!

But some people take it as such. That was the point I was trying to make.



By the same criteria many of you use to brand me anti-America, I could easily brand most of you people anti-French.

Ahh, you haven't read about my fantasy about being spanked by a French Jewess in another thread! :2razz:




I am aware of my biases. I am very biased against what America is becoming, compared to what it was 10-20 years ago.

That's good that you know your biases, although I didn;t really think you didn;t know them.


This thread has nothing to do with me, its a general question. I never bitch about the anti-American card, except I have perhaps mentioned it in a few posts where it was used unfairly.

I think that some people use the card unfairly. I think that simply discounting someone over one's perception of their biases can be a disservice to one's self as well. I think many of your points are salient, although with a decidedly anti-US governemnt spin.

Now, I ahppen to agree with some of your poitns, and on others I have a strong disagrement.

I wouldn't play teh "anti-american" card unless I think your post was needlessly anti-American to the point where it overshadowed your points.



My approach is definitely flawed. I am terrible at uttering my opinions in the same way I think them, not only written, but also in spoken interaction. I am a thinker, not a writer(nor talker), my writing is pretty much crappy and hastily done in most cases(because of other pressing issues in my life), but in most cases my opinions are about 75% correctly represented by what I write, then minus all the spelling and general grammatical errors I may have made that perhaps also have made it difficult to understand what I am actually saying, or really mean by what I am saying. Remember, English is only a language which fights with Swedish as being my second language(among also a handful of others I have to learn better or keep fluent).


I understand that English is not your primary language. I think that you do a damned good job overall considering, but I also think that you often come across harsher than you might mean to.

I think this is a causal factor in much of the negativity towards the views you share that you see.

This is an American forum... I am not bashing the US at all. I am just describing another perspective of the reality about it than most of you have, because I follow the US from the outside(and inside), while you guys follow it from the inside. I also follow many other countries on other languages in the same way!

I follow multiple news sources from outside the country as well. British, Irish, Italian mostly because I'm not very well versed on other languages, but I do see another perspective from these sources.

I also check out transaltions of other sources from Asia and Europe as well.

I think a good few people onthis board do that, but I'm not sure it would be somehting very common in the US in general.

We still have some of that Isolationsim from our past that lingers, but I think it is eroding as time goes on.


I bet you do not remember the end of that thread... The title was meant to get reactions.. The end said something along the lines of, "but in the end I do not hate America at all"..

But that would be an aproach issue. :mrgreen:

People see that thread over and over and they see "I hate America" far more often than they see the final disclaimer.


I usually never criticize Americans in general.. Perhaps I sometimes critisize a group of people at most(like Republicans).. I think in terms of American politics, American economy, American landmass, not just landmass.

And the way you think of things is in direct contradiction to the way we look at things. Of the people for the people by the people is how the American public views America. When you think what you are saying is clearly a criticism of the governemtn, our perspective is such that it appears to be a criticism of us as a people.

It's not saying that your views are wrong, per se, just that you should be aware of how we see things in order to prevent miscomunication due to a difference in relative paradigm.

And some criticisms of the general US populous are warranted, but Americans are such that they will accept these general criticisms more if they come form within than form an "outside" perspective. We're funny like that. As much as we can be at each others throats, we'll still defend each other to the death.

And finally, please don't take my comments here as a negative about you. It's just my attempt to help you understand what brings about certain reactions from some people.
 
Ahh, you haven't read about my fantasy about being spanked by a French Jewess in another thread! :2razz:

:lol:

I think I seriously would like a Jewish girl(as wife material) if I am not wrong about their integrity and being(which I don't think I am wrong about).

I think many of your points are salient, although with a decidedly anti-US governemnt spin.

Not a surprise to me, I hate the US government and the way they mismanage things, I think the US people deserve better, a better political system and a better and more stable economy.
I hate all governments governments more than 50%. Meaning my personal approval rate is not higher than 50% for any government or political system, or economical system, or tax stuff, or whatever government related thing it might be.


I understand that English is not your primary language. I think that you do a damned good job overall considering, but I also think that you often come across harsher than you might mean to.
people.

I am a very harsh man! :doh
 
Not a surprise to me, I hate the US government and the way they mismanage things, I think the US people deserve better, a better political system and a better and more stable economy.

Comments like this make place you right in line with the vast majority of Americans, who feel exactly the same way as you do about our government.

I know I'm in that boat. I hate the way our government has be hijacked by the two-party system as much or more than anyone I know.
 
Its just because you have no comprehension for my stands, you simply do not understand them perhaps?
I could easily say that you have no understanding of politics, economics, government and media just because I do not agree with you, but yet I keep it respectful and just try to say and debate in a nice way why I do not agree with you.. Guess I am just the bigger better man than you also.

You could say that but you would be wrong since I actually do understand those things. You are a ignorant fool who is so caught up in the idea of the superiority of the EU you constantly attack the current power in every one of your posts.
 
Source that this plane is air france..
:lol::lol:
You are anti-French..

:lol::lol:

Why do you want on one hand to "comply" with UN article while on the other hand you say the UN is corrupt when you have to follow their conduct?

Do your own research. If I reposted the proof of who was mayor of Paris when the Shiite head of doodoo book fame was there raising money for the 444 days of glory, for the umpteenth time, someone might call it Spam. I don’t need that. After going to AT school in Memphis and feeling sorry for an Iranian officer who just flunked a test, and being from Georgia and knowing what a puke Jimmy Cotter Pin was, I would not be surprised if it was his plane.

I love ****ing the French.

The party I am registered as belonging to did not create the United Nations (of tyrant too), but I bet they all insisted on the Veto power. The Veto means we do not have to follow their conduct, but only the conduct of domestic traitors who would deprive us of the “consent of the governed.” The UN is very useful with the right president in power who would be inclined to un-sign the Rome Treaty, which if ratified as worded without a Veto would have been a deliberate act of betrayal of the Declaration of Independence’s principle of “consent of the governed.”
 
If I am anti-America, then I am certainly anti-European and anti-Norwegian and anti-French as well, because I have equal opinions on those pathetic political systems as I do the pathetic political system in the US, and the pathetic ways the economies are built and managed.

Based on following American politics and news for the last 15-20 or so years of my 25 year old life. After all I learned English from the age of 7, and from about the age of 15 I even followed American news and politics from the same sources as you..

I could mention that the longest line for food stamps is in America..

Dude, these don't add up. If the socialist-based European political systems are so much better then why did I not feel it necessary to learn their languages at the age of 7?

Don't get me wrong though, I am all for learning languages, as I've taken years of French, and Russian. I just think that you are not understanding what even Marx saw in Capitalism. Marx believed Capitalism to be horribly hostile and disgusting, but he recognized it as the most powerful form of economic system. His down fall, in ideology, was his underestimation of the capitalist system; as he didn't think it could re-innovate itself whenever times got difficult.

Its DEFINITELY a socialist concept.. What is "leftist" anyways?

Most Americans believe in a political ideology line (it should actually be a circle, with left and right connected at the ends, but that is for another debate) To the "Far Left" is Communism (not as Marx had imagined it, but a mixture of Maoism, Leninism, etc.), next is Socialism, followed by Feminism (different than the Feminist movement), then Liberalism, in the middle is Centrist, then Conservatism, Fundamentalism, and finally Fascism (the Far Right).

This is how it is taught in most introductory college courses. You have to realize however that American Conservatism is much more Liberal than Classical Conservatism (as taught by Hobbes and Burke).

Hope this helps.
 
Comments like this make place you right in line with the vast majority of Americans, who feel exactly the same way as you do about our government.

I know I'm in that boat. I hate the way our government has be hijacked by the two-party system as much or more than anyone I know.

Thats basically most of my anger and grievance with the US, and the results this have brought.

However, multi party systems are also failing, because they always in the end group up in two more or less permanent sides.. So basically the same problem. Which is why I support a one party state of independents.
 
You could say that but you would be wrong since I actually do understand those things. You are a ignorant fool who is so caught up in the idea of the superiority of the EU you constantly attack the current power in every one of your posts.

You are just completely wrong.. I just think the EU is the most modern and progressive government we have in the west, possibly the world.. That has nothing to do with being a fanboy, because I am certainly skeptical towards it also.
Looking at the current political systems is like trying to lick a fresh poo in the bottom of the toilet, its just unbearable, because its so horrible.
 
Dude, these don't add up. If the socialist-based European political systems are so much better then why did I not feel it necessary to learn their languages at the age of 7?

Why do the British dont learn any languages and come off as the most ignorant pricks in all of Europe?
I am not saying socialism is so much better alone, but Europe have a large degree of socialism which is good for the people and which have brought us stability in the financial crisis.. The US also have socialism in many forms, but not as strong as Europe. For the US to deny anything which is not clean capitalism and democracy is just wrong, anyone can learn from anything.


Don't get me wrong though, I am all for learning languages, as I've taken years of French, and Russian. I just think that you are not understanding what even Marx saw in Capitalism. Marx believed Capitalism to be horribly hostile and disgusting, but he recognized it as the most powerful form of economic system. His down fall, in ideology, was his underestimation of the capitalist system; as he didn't think it could re-innovate itself whenever times got difficult.

Good for you.. I want to start studying Russian too, its a nicely sounding and quite elegant language.

As for capitalism, hasnt it really failed already? Isnt it failing as we speak? Arent politicians looking for better solutions than "clean capitalism"? I think they are, because a capitalist system will never achieve what a society needs. We dont only need to generate money in the easiest way(be it debt or hard work), we also need to have the most functional society, capitalism just doesnt address this.
 
Now you are not saying anything worth commenting except.. The reality.. I can say the exact same things about you that you say about me, your so called reality is just your perception and opinions.. Why is this relevant? It isnt.

Who cares anyways?


Uh, no you cannot "say the exact same things about you that you say about me" because unlike you I am not falsely characterizing my personal attitudes and perceptions as the truth or as reality.

I mean, you're the one saying you have the truth and Americans cannot just accept it, hence they pull the victim card... :roll:
 
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