Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 20, 2009

EgoffTib said:
This is coming from the mouth of an individual claiming the Bible does not condone violence or killing. :roll:

I dont mean to be biased or anything here.. But not being Christian or Muslims and having read both the Bible and the Koran makes me pretty credible when I say that the old testament is far better teaching than the Koran. The killing is there in a historical aspect, and sometimes to draw a line between good and evil, for people to see the difference. Even it the most complex use of killing in the bible, it is used for men who were 100% good, but then changed their ways and killed for evil, thus doing something bad, even if they were good.

Parts of the Koran teaches gruesome things that the bible never teaches. But they in no way dominate the Koran, its a tiny piece of it only. Perhaps 3%.

walleye · Jan 20, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
What do you mean? If you mean the millenium and the age of the king and such. NO..

I believe in an age of prosper for human being where all adopt the morals of the bible, and there is end to sins and such, and age where we really "get to know God", and everyone lives in happiness and a prosperous world for all. The last age..

I don't know what the millennium you refer to is.. I do not believe in Jesus as anything but a false prophet. At this day and age where the faith in Jesus is so central in Europe, we indulge in sin and flood our soul with sinful ways.. That hardly a coincidence that we live like this and a record people believe in Jesus and the new testament rather than the old testament and God.

If you believe Jesus is a false prophet then you do not believe what the bible says. You are arguing about your belief and not what is stated clearly. That might be the problem.

Ahmed Shaheen · Jan 20, 2009

walleye said:
You and your pals always claim it is taken out of context. There is nothing taken out of context when it endorses killing in the name of Allah. People aren't that stupid. Explain how these verses are "taken out of context".

"This is what many of our enemies believe about the rest of the worlds population" Koran 9:29

“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33

“The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Koran 9:28

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

Wrong, Incomplete translation, thats what I can say until I'll get the RIGHT translation with its sources.

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 20, 2009

walleye said:
If you believe Jesus is a false prophet then you do not believe what the bible says. You are arguing about your belief and not what is stated clearly. That might be the problem.

I dont believe Jesus is a false prophet, I know it. He is possibly even a son of Satan, who knows, he is certainly not God, and he is certainly not continuing the teachings of the old testament, meaning he is actually anti-God, and anti-oldtestament.

I do believe what the bible teaches, the old testament. That is why I cannot believe in Jesus, because his teachings is false and his new testament a completely opposition to the old testament.

Ahmed Shaheen · Jan 20, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
I dont mean to be biased or anything here.. But not being Christian or Muslims and having read both the Bible and the Koran makes me pretty credible when I say that the old testament is far better teaching than the Koran. The killing is there in a historical aspect, and sometimes to draw a line between good and evil, for people to see the difference. Even it the most complex use of killing in the bible, it is used for men who were 100% good, but then changed their ways and killed for evil, thus doing something bad, even if they were good.

Parts of the Koran teaches gruesome things that the bible never teaches. But they in no way dominate the Koran, its a tiny piece of it only. Perhaps 3%.

True, towards Athiests and pagans. Bad Athiests and Pagans to be Honest because the harm and hatred they caused to Muslims and Prophet in the past.

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 20, 2009

Ahmed Shaheen said:
True, towards Athiests and pagans. Bad Athiests and Pagans to be Honest because the harm and hatred they caused to Muslims and Prophet in the past.

No, towards Christians and Jews also.. Dont even try to tell me otherwise, I have read the whole Koran..

Ahmed Shaheen · Jan 20, 2009

walleye said:
I personally think the world would be a much better place without Islam. That's just my personal opinion.

Excuse me, but it so clear that you came hear to spread your hatred Ideas about Islam, you are not here to get sure of your thinkings or something, your talkings are based on somethings you heard from anti-Islamics Media or people or whatever. If you wont take it from a Muslim, so from where you gonna take it from ?
Anti-Islamics misuse the verses in our book, I dont deny that there are some verses which urges to antagonize pagans and Athiests, but that was according to the fact that they were the beginners to harm Muslims and torture them.
We do believe in Jesus, Moussa, Ibrahim and all the older prophets, Iam 100 percent sure that our prophet isn't satisfied for whats goin on right now, curse all those who murder the innocents in the name of Islam/Allah, thats all what I can say.

Ahmed Shaheen · Jan 20, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
No, towards Christians and Jews also.. Dont even try to tell me otherwise, I have read the whole Koran..

Am sure as hell that you misunderstood the verse you'd read due to the bad translation, can I have a look ?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 20, 2009

Ahmed Shaheen said:
Am sure as hell that you misunderstood the verse you'd read due to the bad translation, can I have a look ?

I told you already its mainly in the first 5 chapters of the Koran.. I dont have it anymore, I just borrowed it, a Norwegian version.

The 5 FIRST chapters I believe would really be the LAST 5 chapters.

walleye · Jan 21, 2009

Ahmed Shaheen said:
Excuse me, but it so clear that you came hear to spread your hatred Ideas about Islam, you are not here to get sure of your thinkings or something, your talkings are based on somethings you heard from anti-Islamics Media or people or whatever. If you wont take it from a Muslim, so from where you gonna take it from ?
Anti-Islamics misuse the verses in our book, I dont deny that there are some verses which urges to antagonize pagans and Athiests, but that was according to the fact that they were the beginners to harm Muslims and torture them.
We do believe in Jesus, Moussa, Ibrahim and all the older prophets, Iam 100 percent sure that our prophet isn't satisfied for whats goin on right now, curse all those who murder the innocents in the name of Islam/Allah, thats all what I can say.

I disagree. All I have done is look around me and witness the oppression, destruction, and ignorance perpetuated by Islam. The ancient statues of Bhudda in Afghanistan destroyed. Why? The continued oppression of women. Why? The perpetuation of ignorance. Why? Teaching children to hate and murder Christians and Jews. Why?

The son of a Hamas leader left Islam and became a Christian. He agrees with me. Why?

Examine and open your mind.

Creoilis · Jan 21, 2009

walleye said:
You and your pals always claim it is taken out of context. There is nothing taken out of context when it endorses killing in the name of Allah. People aren't that stupid. Explain how these verses are "taken out of context".

"This is what many of our enemies believe about the rest of the worlds population" Koran 9:29

“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33

“The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Koran 9:28

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

The fault lies in the definition of "infidel." Most muslims do not consider Jews and Christians as infidels, but as "People of the Book" who have merely gone astray. The infidels and historically the greatest killing came in terms of pagans who defied and attacked Muhammed. The goal of Islam is inherent in its name, Total submission to Allah. I think an important example of the fact that Islam is not the murdering doctrine that it is portrayed to be is the Church of St. John in Damascus. The muslims allowed the christians to continue worshipping on Sunday and eventually bought the church and converted to a Mosque. The problem with this texts as much as any lies in interpretation. There is another quote that says that you cannot force the faith on non-believers. You must also remember that every translation IS an interpretation...so yea.

walleye · Jan 21, 2009

Creoilis said:
The fault lies in the definition of "infidel." Most muslims do not consider Jews and Christians as infidels, but as "People of the Book" who have merely gone astray. The infidels and historically the greatest killing came in terms of pagans who defied and attacked Muhammed. The goal of Islam is inherent in its name, Total submission to Allah. I think an important example of the fact that Islam is not the murdering doctrine that it is portrayed to be is the Church of St. John in Damascus. The muslims allowed the christians to continue worshipping on Sunday and eventually bought the church and converted to a Mosque. The problem with this texts as much as any lies in interpretation. There is another quote that says that you cannot force the faith on non-believers. You must also remember that every translation IS an interpretation...so yea.

There sure must be a lot of confused muslims then for there to be such hatred for Jews and Christians in the world. I wonder where they get such ideas?

What is the punishment for a person who decides to leave Islam?

The Punishment for Apostasy from Islam

Rodney · Jan 21, 2009

walleye said:
There sure must be a lot of confused muslims then for there to be such hatred for Jews and Christians in the world. I wonder where they get such ideas?

What is the punishment for a person who decides to leave Islam?

The Punishment for Apostasy from Islam

"Punishment..."? I think its fairly mild. They cut of their lifeline,AKA termination of being alive.These are after all,"reasonable people...loveing".

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 21, 2009

walleye said:
There sure must be a lot of confused muslims then for there to be such hatred for Jews and Christians in the world. I wonder where they get such ideas?

What is the punishment for a person who decides to leave Islam?

The Punishment for Apostasy from Islam

I suggest you read the Koran rather than to listen to other peoples often biased opinions on it, and read chapters often misrepresented on the internet for the sake of spreading hatred towards Islam.

It is however true that in some chapters there is a hostility towards Jews and Christian, but its not a doctrine nor any form of dogma.

walleye · Jan 21, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
I suggest you read the Koran rather than to listen to other peoples often biased opinions on it, and read chapters often misrepresented on the internet for the sake of spreading hatred towards Islam.

It is however true that in some chapters there is a hostility towards Jews and Christian, but its not a doctrine nor any form of dogma.

Everything I have used are words from the Koran, not "other peoples often biased opinions on it". I have quoted from the Koran. It most certainly is doctrine if Muhammed said to do it.

What does the Koran say to do to people who leave Islam?

American · Jan 21, 2009

Islam's main goal is to kill everyone who isn't muslim. That should be plain enough for everyone to understand.

Monk-Eye · Jan 21, 2009

Kafir Smear

"Kafir Smear"

Creoilis said:
The fault lies in the definition of "infidel." Most muslims do not consider Jews and Christians as infidels, but as "People of the Book" who have merely gone astray. The infidels and historically the greatest killing came in terms of pagans who defied and attacked Muhammed. The goal of Islam is inherent in its name, Total submission to Allah. I think an important example of the fact that Islam is not the murdering doctrine that it is portrayed to be is the Church of St. John in Damascus. The muslims allowed the christians to continue worshipping on Sunday and eventually bought the church and converted to a Mosque. The problem with this texts as much as any lies in interpretation. There is another quote that says that you cannot force the faith on non-believers. You must also remember that every translation IS an interpretation...so yea.

You should research the restrictions on non-ishmaelism religious practice in countries which adhere to qurayshism (ishmaelism) as the state religion.
There are restrictions on construction of places of worship, proselytizing, conversion, and inter-marriage, amongst many.

You should also follow some of the posts by Ahmed Shaheem, who claims to represent the true "peaceful" religion of qurayshism (ishmelism), where I challenged him to clarify his authoritarian, violent innuendo.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...tivate-convert-kill-us-24.html#post1057889825
http://www.debatepolitics.com/basement/42770-religious-crappola.html#post1057894222

Do not believe the two faced lies and the subversive methods.

Besides, qurayshism (ishmaelism) is a genetic religion for the preservation of the patriarchal lineage of ishmael, through tribal tradition, whose sharia laws only apply to the city state of hejaz.
Free hejaz from al-saad!!

Ishmaelism is not based upon universal tenets.
Anyone which is not a male descendant of ishmael or a member of the quraysh tribe through blood or marriage is illegitimate (fictional ishmaelism).

Degreez · Jan 22, 2009

walleye said:
Everything I have used are words from the Koran, not "other peoples often biased opinions on it". I have quoted from the Koran. It most certainly is doctrine if Muhammed said to do it.

What does the Koran say to do to people who leave Islam?

Everything you have used are your own vile words, out of context lines from the Qur'an, or completely misrepresented translations from the Qur'an (I can show with your own posts where)*.

What does the Qur'an say about Apostasy:
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is nothing in there regarding capital punishment for apostasy. The only punishments noted are in the afterlife by God:

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!"
Qur'an 18:29

The way people tie execution with leaving Islam is through weak hadith on the subject:

Buhkari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people (hypocrites from the War) and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

The reason this is considered a weak hadith is because there is only one isnad (or only one noted chain of transmission/narration). According to Islamic jurisprudence it is not enough to validate any type of hadd (mandatory) punishment in regards to Shari'ah.

In all cases though, the Qur'an is the ultimate source on this matter in which it specifically states:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."
Qur'an 2:256

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine."
Qur'an 109:1-6

* Here is where I will show how you disgustingly misrepresent the Qur'an:

walleye said:
“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30
“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19
“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4
“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12
“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

- 9:30
Completely changed:

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

- 22:19
- 47:4
- 8:65 You completely changed this one so I will quote it below:

008.065
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

- 8:12
- 8:60

TBH, I think complete misrepresentation of things like this should be bannable offenses. You are fabricating translations of the Qur'an and giving them new meanings, as compared to the more accurate translations: CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

Anything else?

Ahmed Shaheen · Jan 22, 2009

walleye said:
I disagree. All I have done is look around me and witness the oppression, destruction, and ignorance perpetuated by Islam. The ancient statues of Bhudda in Afghanistan destroyed. Why? The continued oppression of women. Why? The perpetuation of ignorance. Why? Teaching children to hate and murder Christians and Jews. Why?

The son of a Hamas leader left Islam and became a Christian. He agrees with me. Why?

Examine and open your mind.

You answered your self :

walleye said:
Those people were not following the teachings of Christianity.

I'll say : Those people were not following the teaching of Islam, the agressive verses in Islam aren't against christians and jews, although jews got criticized in many verses, that was becasue of teir mocking , harming and hatred to Muslims and Islam, although that we weren't told to harm them in anyway.

A prophet common saying : "get education even if you have to go to china" so how do you claim that there are ignorance in the Islamic word.

First Thought · Jan 22, 2009

American said:
Islam's main goal is to kill everyone who isn't muslim. That should be plain enough for everyone to understand.

Just as the goal of the ignorant is to spew verbal diarrhea all over threads on topics they know nothing about.

First Thought · Jan 22, 2009

walleye said:
Everything I have used are words from the Koran, not "other peoples often biased opinions on it". I have quoted from the Koran. It most certainly is doctrine if Muhammed said to do it.

What does the Koran say to do to people who leave Islam?

..and I quoted violence from the Bible, which you dismissed outright. Hypocrite, much?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 22, 2009

walleye said:
Everything I have used are words from the Koran, not "other peoples often biased opinions on it". I have quoted from the Koran. It most certainly is doctrine if Muhammed said to do it.

What does the Koran say to do to people who leave Islam?

So, you have read the Koran?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 22, 2009

American said:
Islam's main goal is to kill everyone who isn't muslim. That should be plain enough for everyone to understand.

Thats where you are wrong..
Have you ever read the Koran btw?

Tucker Case · Jan 22, 2009

I think Islam's main goal is to turn us all into Aardvarks.

First Thought · Jan 22, 2009

Tucker Case said:
I think Islam's main goal is to turn us all into Aardvarks.

I remember that surah:

"Go forth and turn the infidels into Aardvarks, then kill everyone who isn't Muslim(That one's for you, American), then go to Disneyland."

Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

Captivate

Convert

Kill

None of the Above

Other (Specify)

MoG

Herzschmerz !

MoG

Herzschmerz !

MoG

Herzschmerz !

Herzschmerz !

MoG

New member

MoG

Trump Grump Whisperer

Dream Walker

Herzschmerz !

MoG

MoG

Matthew 16:3