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Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

  • Captivate

    Votes: 6 9.4%

  • Convert

    Votes: 24 37.5%

  • Kill

    Votes: 14 21.9%

  • None of the Above

    Votes: 27 42.2%

  • Other (Specify)

    Votes: 9 14.1%
  • Total voters
    64
Maximus Zeebra said:
How should I interpret that? You do not support homosexuality and sex change operations and such savagery neither?
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I do not support authoritarian, PC support for minorities like special hate laws when existing laws serve where thet are needed or the rest of the New Labour/EUroplot support for minorities over the majority of Englishmen.
 
Wessexman said:
I don't see what the point of this sillyness is? Is someone suggesting Hammurabi's Code is as influential in Western history, tradition and culture as the old testament?
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Hypothetically speaking, if it influenced the old testement, or perhaps some other code that did not survive the ages influenced the OT, then yes it would be as influential in a way.

The real point being made is that many things in the Old Testement were not "new" ideas that nobody had ever thought of before. It is unlikely that they were created in a vacuum.

The argument that the Old Testement has primacy with regards to influencing the western world assumes that it was a form of revolutionary thought.

The evidence of pre-existing doctrines similar to the Old Testement in nature would imply that this concept is untrue. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the OT was simply a mode of conveyance for even older concepts that pre-date the OT. If the concpets are not unique to the OT, then the OT did not influence the culture, it only was the means by which the older concepts were introduced to the culture that were influenced.

Think of it this way, if I were to write a text book that described Einstein's Theory of Special relativity, and that text book were used widely, an reading that text book and learning about special relativity greatly influenced people for centuries to come, it would not be me that influenced them, it would have been Einstein.

My textbook would only be the force that facilitated that influence.
 
Tucker Case said:
Hypothetically speaking, if it influenced the old testement, or perhaps some other code that did not survive the ages influenced the OT, then yes it would be as influential in a way.
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It wouldn't really be just as influential, it would be influential perhaps though.
The real point being made is that many things in the Old Testement were not "new" ideas that nobody had ever thought of before. It is unlikely that they were created in a vacuum.
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A lot of it is pretty basic stuff like "though shalt not kill". They were created as party of society which had its own dynamics and had most probably had contact with others.
The argument that the Old Testement has primacy with regards to influencing the western world assumes that it was a form of revolutionary thought.

The evidence of pre-existing doctrines similar to the Old Testement in nature would imply that this concept is untrue. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the OT was simply a mode of conveyance for even older concepts that pre-date the OT. If the concpets are not unique to the OT, then the OT did not influence the culture, it only was the means by which the older concepts were introduced to the culture that were influenced.
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I wouldn't necessary say that. The old testament, wherever its ideas came from, is a piece of literature and scripture that has had a major influence on many people and societies in the West arranging certain different ideas in a very distinctive way, in a very distinctive narrative. Sure it may be interesting to trace some of these further but it doesn't change the fact that it was Hebrew literature and not Summerian or Egpytian that has had the massive influence from the 4th century in the West.
 
Wessexman said:
I wouldn't necessary say that. The old testament, wherever its ideas came from, is a piece of literature and scripture that has had a major influence on many people and societies in the West arranging certain different ideas in a very distinctive way, in a very distinctive narrative. Sure it may be interesting to trace some of these further but it doesn't change the fact that it was Hebrew literature and not Summerian or Egpytian that has had the massive influence from the 4th century in the West.
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But the fact that the concepts within are not universally influential (shellfish anyone?) means that if the ideas that WERE influential came form other sources originally, then those other sources had more influence than the OT did.

That's why I chose a textbook for my example, instead of a book about relativity only. It may contain dozens of other concepts besides relativity, but if the future generations are only really influenced by relativity, then only Einstein did the influencing.
 
Tucker Case said:
But the fact that the concepts within are not universally influential (shellfish anyone?) means that if the ideas that WERE influential came form other sources originally, then those other sources had more influence than the OT did.

That's why I chose a textbook for my example, instead of a book about relativity only. It may contain dozens of other concepts besides relativity, but if the future generations are only really influenced by relativity, then only Einstein did the influencing.
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The OT however is not a textbook. It took many ideas, arranged them in a specific narrative and that is what has been influential. Their original sources is interesting but it doesn't mean we, or rather the PC who have a problem with Xtian influence in the West, should hold up Hammurabi's code or Arkenaten as being anywhere as meaningful for the West as the OT.

As a decentralist I know that some concepts though they may be very widely held and beneficial are usually better expressed and transfered to a particular culture by a more localised, traditional route.
 
Wessexman said:
The OT however is not a textbook. It took many ideas, arranged them in a specific narrative and that is what has been influential. Their original sources is interesting but it doesn't mean we, or rather the PC who have a problem with Xtian influence in the West, should hold up Hammurabi's code or Arkenaten as being anywhere as meaningful for the West as the OT.

As a decentralist I know that some concepts though they may be very widely held and beneficial are usually better expressed and transfered to a particular culture by a more localised, traditional route.
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Personally, I have no problem acknowledging that Christiantity influenced the west. The only issue I have is when some portray that Christianity created Western Culture.

Surely it influenced it, but there were so many other factors involved that it was not necessarily the driving force behind what created Western Culture.

There is no doubt that it did indeed influence Western culture as well as many of the thinkers who's ideas form the framework of western thought.

And if I were to choose whether which book of the bible had more of an influence on Western thought, I'd go with the NT hands down.
 
Tucker Case said:
Personally, I have no problem acknowledging that Christiantity influenced the west. The only issue I have is when some portray that Christianity created Western Culture.

Surely it influenced it, but there were so many other factors involved that it was not necessarily the driving force behind what created Western Culture.

There is no doubt that it did indeed influence Western culture as well as many of the thinkers who's ideas form the framework of western thought.

And if I were to choose whether which book of the bible had more of an influence on Western thought, I'd go with the NT hands down.
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I largely agree with you although I'd say Christianity as defined by the OT and NT as well as the church father's, councils and the long Christian tradition of the middle ages is one of the top influences of Western culture. Certainly it wasn't the "driving force" or sole creator by any mean but it was one of the top five or so factors.
 
Wessexman said:
I largely agree with you although I'd say Christianity as defined by the OT and NT as well as the church father's, councils and the long Christian tradition of the middle ages is one of the top influences of Western culture. Certainly it wasn't the "driving force" or sole creator by any mean but it was one of the top five or so factors.
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I agree with all that.

I'd even go as far as putting it in the top three, along with Ancient Greek culture and Ancient Roman culture (and vicariously, the factors that influenced these two cultures).

At different times in the West, the individual rankings of these three have shifted about some, but they are all vital ingredients in the mix that created Western Culture as we know it today.

None of those three have primacy over the others, in my opinion.
 
Their intent and, GOAL is to kill us if we do not submit and convert to ISLAM.

However, they are brainwashed like in with any other RELIGON! Mental conformity to control and, standardize.

MUSIBIKE
 
musibike said:
Their intent and, GOAL is to kill us if we do not submit and convert to ISLAM.

However, they are brainwashed like in with any other RELIGON! Mental conformity to control and, standardize.

MUSIBIKE
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The whole Muslim thing is just pushed by neo-cons in America as a tactics to acquire freedom from international norms and to wage war against countries they feel needed.. Neo-Cons is just a different version of Nazis.
 
musibike said:
Their intent and, GOAL is to kill us if we do not submit and convert to ISLAM.

However, they are brainwashed like in with any other RELIGON! Mental conformity to control and, standardize.

MUSIBIKE
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Care to back up your emotional argument? I would like you to explain how Buddhism brainwashes their followers.
 
EgoffTib said:
Care to back up your emotional argument? I would like you to explain how Buddhism brainwashes their followers.
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The last thing you wanna do is to got in debate with a BS ignorant :doh
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
The whole Muslim thing is just pushed by neo-cons in America as a tactics to acquire freedom from international norms and to wage war against countries they feel needed.. Neo-Cons is just a different version of Nazis.
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Damn you found out! So much for the "Big Secret"!

Did you also know they teach us how to hate Muslims in jr high?
Its true I still have my "How to hate muslims" hand book.

Guess you think 9/11 was committed by elves huh?
 
bhkad said:


The goal, I believe is to captivate us and much of the tax money that goes now to Washington to pay for defense, for example, would instead go to Mecca.

That's how I see it. But what about you?

What do you think?
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This is by far and away the MOST retarded statment I have ever heard on this website, which I must say is bursting at the seems with racist bigots.

My advice is to not look so far away for your enemies, try concentrating on keeping your constitution in tact, and owning some land before the banks snap it up, as oppose to demonizing people who you have never met.
 
Ahmed Shaheen said:
You meant "Terrorists"
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The terrorists were all muslims. The terrorists in Iraq were all muslims. The terrorists in London were all Muslims. The terrorists in India were all muslims. They're obviously taking the Quran out of context. You have some work to do.
 
cheat3 said:
This is by far and away the MOST retarded statment I have ever heard on this website, which I must say is bursting at the seems with racist bigots.

My advice is to not look so far away for your enemies, try concentrating on keeping your constitution in tact, and owning some land before the banks snap it up, as oppose to demonizing people who you have never met.
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You mean I have to meet a terrorist before I hate him? Do you look into the toilet when you get up to see what's in there?
 
cherokee said:
Damn you found out! So much for the "Big Secret"!

Did you also know they teach us how to hate Muslims in jr high?
Its true I still have my "How to hate muslims" hand book.

Guess you think 9/11 was committed by elves huh?
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Its tactics learned from NAZI Germany, doesn't take much to figure what a majority republicans stand for.

The US fear of Muslims and lust to exterminate them is just insane and no better than NAZI Germany.
 
walleye said:
The terrorists were all muslims. The terrorists in Iraq were all muslims. The terrorists in London were all Muslims. The terrorists in India were all muslims. They're obviously taking the Quran out of context. You have some work to do.
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Perhaps thats because your definition of terrorist is too narrow.
 
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