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Knowing that IDF snipers shoot demonstrators in the crotch, would you...

Knowing that IDF snipers shoot demonstrators in the crotch, would you...

  • Participate in domonstrations anyway.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Launch rockets into Israel.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
shiznit770 said:
If there were roads to Gaza through Egypt, there probably aren't any more.

Israel Warns Residents Along Gaza-Egypt Border of Air Strikes

A good question though, anyone have any information on the topic?
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There was an agreement over the conditions that the Rafah crossing would open. It required that the EU monitors be present for it to open. This agreement also gave the Israeli side a veto over its operation which Israel exercised many times.

ei: How the EU helps Israel to strangle Gaza
 
SquareMelon said:
There was an agreement over the conditions that the Rafah crossing would open. It required that the EU monitors be present for it to open. This agreement also gave the Israeli side a veto over its operation which Israel exercised many times.

ei: How the EU helps Israel to strangle Gaza
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This story is almost a full year old, and was written before 2008 cease-fire. It is obsolete and meaningless.

So...
Who, specifically, keeps the Egyp/Gaza border closed?
 
Goobieman said:
This story is almost a full year old, and was written before 2008 cease-fire. It is obsolete and meaningless.

So...
Who, specifically, keeps the Egyp/Gaza border closed?
Click to expand...

This is not a story, it details the agreement that reached in 2005 that still governs the conditions that dectates how this crossing operate.


Onion Eater said:
We pay the Egyptian government two billion dollars a year for blockading that border on Israel's behalf.
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That is the incentive that keeps the egyptions stick to the above mentioned agreement.

Like your poll, though this kind of abstraction requires some minimal intellectual capabilties to understand the point that you are trying to get through. "Palestinians have no options". My preference is to launch rockets back at snipers crotches preferably american made rockets so I won't be labeled as a terrorist ;)
 
SquareMelon said:
This is not a story, it details the agreement that reached in 2005 that still governs the conditions that dectates how this crossing operate.
Click to expand...

So...
Who, specifically, keeps the Egyp/Gaza border closed?
 
SquareMelon said:
This is not a story, it details the agreement that reached in 2005 that still governs the conditions that dectates how this crossing operate.

That is the incentive that keeps the egyptions stick to the above mentioned agreement.

Like your poll, though this kind of abstraction requires some minimal intellectual capabilties to understand the point that you are trying to get through. "Palestinians have no options". My preference is to launch rockets back at snipers crotches preferably american made rockets so I won't be labeled as a terrorist ;)
Click to expand...

A quick perusing of articles on the crossing makes it seem like it is actually Egypt's call. They are allowing wounded through the crossing but not refuges and they are not sending humanitarian aid into Gaza.

At the Rafah crossing, a stream of injured Palestinians and an Arab dilemma

The locals are dubious about opening the borders because it lets in more despairing peoples which leads to conflict. The government fears refuges will be Hamas sympathizers and place their position (pro US) in jeopardy.

If Egypt started allowing aid into Gaza it may turn into more than just medical aid for the Palestinian people. They fear Egyptians or even other Arabs might go over to fight Israel by crossing through Egypt.
 
shiznit770 said:
A quick perusing of articles on the crossing makes it seem like it is actually Egypt's call. They are allowing wounded through the crossing but not refuges and they are not sending humanitarian aid into Gaza.

At the Rafah crossing, a stream of injured Palestinians and an Arab dilemma

The locals are dubious about opening the borders because it lets in more despairing peoples which leads to conflict. The government fears refuges will be Hamas sympathizers and place their position (pro US) in jeopardy.

If Egypt started allowing aid into Gaza it may turn into more than just medical aid for the Palestinian people. They fear Egyptians or even other Arabs might go over to fight Israel by crossing through Egypt.
Click to expand...

So much for the argument that the Israeli blockade is the cause of the plight of the Gazians.

Why isnt Hamas sendng rockets into Egypt?
 
shiznit770 said:
Because they are refuges from PALESTINE, not EGYPT
Click to expand...
So?
Their excuse (this time) is the blockade.
As you noted, Israel isnt the only party blockading Gaza.

And, of course, the question begs:
Doesnt Israel have the right to close its borders?
 
shiznit770 said:
A quick perusing of articles on the crossing makes it seem like it is actually Egypt's call. They are allowing wounded through the crossing but not refuges and they are not sending humanitarian aid into Gaza.

At the Rafah crossing, a stream of injured Palestinians and an Arab dilemma

The locals are dubious about opening the borders because it lets in more despairing peoples which leads to conflict. The government fears refuges will be Hamas sympathizers and place their position (pro US) in jeopardy.

If Egypt started allowing aid into Gaza it may turn into more than just medical aid for the Palestinian people. They fear Egyptians or even other Arabs might go over to fight Israel by crossing through Egypt.
Click to expand...

Well, the physical control of the crossing is in the hands of the egyptions. Mubarak was on TV a week ago and claimed that he is not opening it except for few injured and some medical supplies. His reasons were and I am quoting,

We Egypt can't open this because we need the Israeli approval since Gaza is still an occupied territory. He added, The EU monitors, PA people and the Israeli video cameras monitoring the traffic need to be present in the crossing for it to open.

The crossing is not equiped to recieve trucks, just passenger vehicles.

Israel who is closing all the other crossings into Gaza will not accept this one to be opened as this will defeat the purpose of its siege of Gaza.
 
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SquareMelon said:
Well, the physical control of the crossing is in the hands of the egyptions. Mubarak was on TV a week ago and claimed that he is not opening it except for few injured and some medical supplies. His reasons were and I am quoting
Click to expand...
Hooey. Nothing stops Egypt from letting people pass thru its own border.
 
SquareMelon said:
Well, the physical control of the crossing is in the hands of the egyptions. Mubarak was on TV a week ago and claimed that he is not opening it except for few injured and some medical supplies. His reasons were and I am quoting,

We Egypt can't open this because we need the Israeli approval since Gaza is still an occupied territory. He added, The EU monitors, PA people and the Israeli video cameras monitoring the traffic need to be present in the crossing for it to open.

The crossing is not equiped to recieve trucks, just passenger vehicles.

Israel who is closing all the other crossings into Gaza will not accept this one to be opened as this will defeat the purpose of its siege of Gaza.
Click to expand...

Egypt rejects calls to open border with war-battered Gaza

Here's an article with quotes:

"We in Egypt are not going to contribute to perpetuating the rift (between the Palestinian Authority of Mahmud Abbas and Gaza's Hamas rulers) by opening the Rafah crossing in the absence of the Palestinian Authority and EU observers in violation of the 2005 deal," Mubarak said in a televised speech.
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So basically they either violate the UN resolution between PA, Israel and Egypt and open their border, risking criticism and blame from Israel or they keep it closed and do the minimum.

I'm not sure if you've noticed Goobieman, but Egypt has become very close with the US and Israel since the start of the 2003 Iraq war. There are plenty of people pissed off about what Egypt is doing.
 
Southern Man said:
If you think about it objectively, its a good tactic. You don't kill the guy, just stop him from seeding the next generation of killers.
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Disagree, even the best Israeli sharp-shooter could not hit an Arab dick....:rofl
Instead try preying on their ignorance and fear...even "the Gang that could not shoot straight" would hit that...:mrgreen:
 
earthworm said:
Disagree, even the best Israeli sharp-shooter could not hit an Arab dick....:rofl
Instead try preying on their ignorance and fear...even "the Gang that could not shoot straight" would hit that...:mrgreen:
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Imagine that......you do have a sense of humor after all.
 
Shewter said:
Once again. Care to elaborate? What is this "Stereotype" of free-speech? And how is it unfortunate?
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You'd misunderstanded what I wrote, the "Stereotypes" goes to the members not to the freedom of speech, I see many members here are affected by the media.
 
Onion Eater said:
We pay the Egyptian government two billion dollars a year for blockading that border on Israel's behalf.
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Excuse me Onion eater, but I doubt about 2 things :

1)The money : The 2 Billions are only 2% of Egypt's whole income, so that wouldn't be that great deal.

2)The blockading : Aids are going to Palestine year long, Howcome we can do that ?

All my respect .
 
Ahmed Shaheen said:
Excuse me Onion eater, but I doubt about 2 things :

1)The money : The 2 Billions are only 2% of Egypt's whole income, so that wouldn't be that great deal.

2)The blockading : Aids are going to Palestine year long, Howcome we can do that ?

All my respect .
Click to expand...

Ahmed Shaheen-

1) You are Egyptian, so you have first-hand knowledge of your government's policies. As an American, I only know what I read. However, articles like this tend to support my statement (boldface added):

"United States support for Israel after the June 1967 War made Egypt ever more dependent on the Soviet Union for military aid and protection, but this dependence was, in part, balanced by increasing financial aid from the conservative Arab oil states. By the late 1970s, Sadat, in choosing to rely on American diplomacy to recover Egyptian land from Israel and in allowing his ties to the Soviet Union and the Arab world to wither, had led Egypt into heavy economic and military dependency on the United States. This dependency, by precluding foreign-policy decisions displeasing to Israel and Washington, sharply limited Egypt's pursuit of a vigorous Arab and independent foreign policy. The basic dilemma of Egypt's foreign policy was that its dependence on foreign assistance conflicted with its aspiration for national independence and its concept of its role as an Arab-Islamic and traditionally nonaligned entity."

U.S. foreign aid is listed at U.S. Foreign Aid Summary and is current through 2006. Wikipedia lists each countries nominal GDP for 2007, so the ratios are off slightly as they compare 2006 and 2007 figures. I summarize here:

__________________GDP___________Aid_________ratio

Israel_____________$164B________$2.52B________1.5%

Egypt_____________128___________1.80_________1.4

West Bank/Gaza_____?____________0.15

Pakistan___________144___________0.7__________0.5

First, I want to point out that the ratio we are really interested in is that between foreign aid and the government's budget, not the whole economy's GDP. It is the government, after all, that decides what their foreign policy is going to be and it is to them that we give the money. We don't fly over Cairo and toss that $1.8B out the side door - we give it directly to Mubarak.

Second, I want to point out that nobody doubts that Pakistan's foreign policy under Musharraf during 2006 and 2007 was largely at our service, yet Pakistan only received a third as much aid relative to their GDP as either Egypt or Israel. The point is, a billion dollars is a lot of money to any of these governments and they all understand that it comes with strings attached.

As an Egyptian, I suspect that you are letting your national pride convince you that Egypt is independant of U.S. foreign policy. But, while I hope I do not offend you, I must point out that Mubarak knew that he would be viewed as our stooge when he was seen touching our money, but he took it anyway.

2) We are playing both sides. The U.S. government wants the border closed and they want the Palestinians to feel grateful to the U.S. for aid.

As poor as the West Bank and, even more so, the Gaza Strip are, $0.15B goes a long ways. But it is a pittance compared to the $2.52B we give to Israel or the $1.8B we give to Egypt.

I believe that the U.S. government mostly wants Gaza blockaded. Anyway, the aid we give to Gaza and the West Bank goes to the Palestinian Authority and, as corrupt as they are, it mostly winds up in Mahmoud Abbas' Swiss bank account. Hamas is certainly not getting any of that money.
 
It's so amazing on how many GOPites aren't outraged at the Socialism of giving money to the Middle East and yet will yell and kick and scream about "Socialized Medicine." Funny stuff. Why the denial America is Socialist guys? Forget the kevlar cups.

YouTube - Socialism-As American As Apple Pie
 
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