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OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

  • No

    Votes: 26 37.7%
  • Yes

    Votes: 43 62.3%

  • Total voters
    69
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The point is obvious. Hamas does not have the right to remove Israel.

I hope that point is obvious....or else we got a real problem on our hands ;)
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I hope that point is obvious....or else we got a real problem on our hands ;)

Well, you would think it is obvious, but obviously it isn't because people keep harping about Israel defending itself.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The point is obvious. Hamas does not have the right to remove Israel.

Case closed.

Ah, so your opinion closes the case? :lol:
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

because people keep harping about Israel defending itself.

I don't want to come off rude, but after reading a bit of this argument from a rather more objective standpoint, it seems that you folks are arguing for the sake of arguing (which is understandable, for a debating forum, and a great way to hone your skills) not really about Israel defending itself; although the premiss revolves somewhere around that.

Did i just make sense?..
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Things are terrible there. The sooner the Palestinians stand up and take control from Hamas and other terrorists, the better off they will be. Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians. They can't win a war with Israel. They know that. They keep the Palestinians down and tell them that they are the only ones who care. This insures that they remain in power.
HAMAS has been in power since the mid-to-late 80's, while the occupation has been going on since 67'. It wasn't the terrorists who caused this; Israeli action created the negative feelings which spawned these organizations. When the Palestinians had no where else to turn, they accepted the terrorists as their saviors, as the people who were trying to fight back. As liberators. Terrorism is inherently evil, but when you're being swept down stream, you'll grab whatever branch you can reach to pull yourself out of the water. And now, you're right; they're just trying to remain in power. It's developed into more.

It's a hydra-ish issue for the Palestinians. Their only defenders are mad dogs, and those mad dogs incite even more violence from their antagonists... But even if you kill the dog, the antagonist is still there, and it's presence breeds more dogs.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I don't want to come off rude, but after reading a bit of this argument from a rather more objective standpoint, it seems that you folks are arguing for the sake of arguing (which is understandable, for a debating forum, and a great way to hone your skills) not really about Israel defending itself; although the premiss revolves somewhere around that.

Did i just make sense?..

I am arguing from the standpoint of Israel being a sovereign nation and having the right to defend itself. Hamas' goal is to remove Israel. It's not different than if a militia from Mexico or Canada rose up against the USA and began firing missiles at us. They would be destroyed and Israel should do the same thing.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

HAMAS has been in power since the mid-to-late 80's, while the occupation has been going on since 67'. It wasn't the terrorists who caused this; Israeli action created the negative feelings which spawned these organizations. When the Palestinians had no where else to turn, they accepted the terrorists as their saviors, as the people who were trying to fight back. As liberators. Terrorism is inherently evil, but when you're being swept down stream, you'll grab whatever branch you can reach to pull yourself out of the water. And now, you're right; they're just trying to remain in power. It's developed into more.

It's a hydra-ish issue for the Palestinians. Their only defenders are mad dogs, and those mad dogs incite even more violence from their antagonists... But even if you kill the dog, the antagonist is still there, and it's presence breeds more dogs.

What created the negative feelings was the creation of the nation of Israel, not the fact that Israel has defended itself.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I am arguing from the standpoint of Israel being a sovereign nation and having the right to defend itself. Hamas' goal is to remove Israel. It's not different than if a militia from Mexico or Canada rose up against the USA and began firing missiles at us. They would be destroyed and Israel should do the same thing.

Ok, i guess i didn't make sense then :lol:

My point was that you folks were not really arguing a specific point (until now).
I felt you folks were just arguing to argue.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

You're right. I know what the term means. But since you've already misrepresented the term genocide, incorrectly assigning it to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (and which you now seem to have backed off from, appropriately), I want to know what you mean by the term before I commit to debating you on the issue.

I didn't back off from the term genocide. It IS a genocide. Israelis are literally killing Palestinians in the streets. There aren't giant ovens, but Israel isn't going to stop until that land is indisputably theirs... And that entails the destruction of the natives.

Oh, and suggesting that you are correct because most of the world agrees with you is the Argumentum ad populum (argument or appeal to the public) logical fallacy. Just because the majority believes something, doesn't make it correct.

And I've taken a logic class or two as well. I know that "bandwagon" isn't a valid argument... But it means something that America is the only country in the World who thinks what Israel is in the right, doesn't it? Maybe I'm wrong, though... American's are well known to be the most well-informed people in the World.

We were talking about Palestine, no? We weren't talking about "in general", so I figured you'd understand the context. Next time I'll spell it out more succinctly.
A flat statement like, "Firstly, genocide doesn't exist," sounds like you're saying... Genocide doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't read like, "Firstly, there is no genocide in the occupied territories." And you know it doesn't. This is a non-issue anyway. I'm done with it.

This is the flaw in your argument, Israel is picking on no one. They are defending themselves against terror attacks. If you don't believe me, you need to do the research. And if you are going to sit there and blame the Israelis, for the current drama, answer this question -- why did the occupation start to begin with? This has little to nothing to do with land. It has to do with defense.
Fair question. The occupation started when the Israelis won the 6 Day War. Now you answer mine.

And as far as your question goes, I have dodged nothing. I have been busy responding to other things and reminding you to stop with your uncivil tone. When you accomplish that, I will be happy to answer your question...but be prepared to, also, answer your own question.
I answered yours. Go for it.

Firstly, I've done plenty of background research and understand the situation very well. You don't agree with my position. That's what's going on here. I can say the same thing...that your position is based on not understanding the situation. When you do that, it is an ad hom personal attack...just like the first sentence of the paragraph I am currently responding to. It is not my fault if you are unable to control your nasty, jerky behavior. See? That is what you do. And you need to stop. NOW. All you need to do at this point is say, "yes I will stop", or "no I won't". If it is the former, we can continue to debate civilly. If it is the later, you will get what you give. You started things, but I guarentee you that I will finish them. So knock off the abrasive, uncivil behavior now, which you initiated, and debate appropriately. I do not think I can make myself more clear.

Consider this. Others are noticing your abrasive tone. You have started off on a real bad foot, here immediately. Try starting over. Drop the attitude and just debate. You express yourself fine without the nastiness, so drop it.
That other people decide I'm being abrasive when a mod does doesn't surprise me. I expect it. You've given as much attitude as you've received. You've been condescending and rude, and I'll admit, I've been so too. If you're willing to dispense with the attitude, I am too -- but if you continue to behave as we both have thus far, you can't really expect me to just 'suck it up.'
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

If you're willing to dispense with the attitude, I am too -- but if you continue to behave as we both have thus far, you can't really expect me to just 'suck it up.'

I'm being quite frank when I say that that was a very childish statement.
that you're not going to drop the attitude till he does.

And I can expect you to suck it up. You should not take offense when a person you don't even know, on a forum, gives you attitude.
If he is giving you attitude that isn't your problem, it is his/hers, because he/she needs help.

The world is harsh out there (and I'm being pretty harsh here), but if you can't handle a forum, how do you cope with life?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I'm being quite frank when I say that that was a very childish statement.
that you're not going to drop the attitude till he does.

And I can expect you to suck it up. You should not take offense when a person you don't even know, on a forum, gives you attitude.
If he is giving you attitude that isn't your problem, it is his/hers, because he/she needs help.

The world is harsh out there (and I'm being pretty harsh here), but if you can't handle a forum, how do you cope with life?
It's childish to say, "if you hit me with a stick, I'm likely going to hit you back?" No. I don't tolerate all the attitude any better than Courtesy does.

And if you think I should suck it up, should he not do the same? I've offered a viable solution to hostilities, and what's more, offered the guy compliments. I've given the olive branch as I'm capable of doing. And just so you know... You're insulting him with this comment. He's the one pushing the issue, not me, remember?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

HAMAS has been in power since the mid-to-late 80's, while the occupation has been going on since 67'. It wasn't the terrorists who caused this; Israeli action created the negative feelings which spawned these organizations. When the Palestinians had no where else to turn, they accepted the terrorists as their saviors, as the people who were trying to fight back. As liberators. Terrorism is inherently evil, but when you're being swept down stream, you'll grab whatever branch you can reach to pull yourself out of the water. And now, you're right; they're just trying to remain in power. It's developed into more.

It's a hydra-ish issue for the Palestinians. Their only defenders are mad dogs, and those mad dogs incite even more violence from their antagonists... But even if you kill the dog, the antagonist is still there, and it's presence breeds more dogs.

Why doesn't Hamas lob rockets into Jordan and Egypt. Their "brothers" turned their backs on them.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

It's childish to say, "if you hit me with a stick, I'm likely going to hit you back?"
yes it is (but that's not a good example because that could be misconstrued to mean that its self defense)
If someone is 'mean' you don't act 'mean' back

And if you think I should suck it up, should he not do the same?
Yes he should too, but that is my point, just because someone else is doing something wrong, it doesnt mean it's right for you to do.

You're insulting him with this comment. He's the one pushing the issue, not me, remember?

I'm not trying insulting anyone. And if someone is insulted, forgive me, but the whole point of my posting this is to shed some light on a bit of immaturity around here.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ah. Good job. And I don't really care that you want to comment... I just find you endlessly pathetic for playing the role of cheerleader rather than actually making or refuting any points yourself. Don't relent with those 'attaboys' if that's all you got, though; every forum needs its 'Me-too's.'
Wonderful, so you’ll just spare us the sanctimonious complaints that someone noticed the same issues with your comments and post as another poster, next time. Carry on.


I do not know why I seem to have short term memory loss. I always seem to forget that you never want to debate, you just wish to hop up on your noble steed and lambaste my personal character. Have fun.
:2wave:
Oh don’t worry there is no mystery why you have to trot out the same clichés and lazy arsed feints every time you get challenged on your hackery. Ya know the strawman/strawman gambit, the puerile rationalizations sprinkled amongst all the trolling, your penchant for clinging to and trying to polish turds, etc etc. Sorry Junior, there aint no mystery as to what exactly your affliction is. But if you want to blame on it a loss of short term cognitive recall have at it, this would at last be one label application by you that I agree with.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Oh don’t worry there is no mystery why you have to trot out the same clichés and lazy arsed feints every time you get challenged on your hackery. Ya know the strawman/strawman gambit, the puerile rationalizations sprinkled amongst all the trolling, your penchant for clinging to and trying to polish turds, etc etc. Sorry Junior, there aint no mystery as to what exactly your affliction is. But if you want to blame on it a loss of short term cognitive recall have at it, this would at last be one label application by you that I agree with.

Smile, Jesus loves you.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I didn't back off from the term genocide. It IS a genocide. Israelis are literally killing Palestinians in the streets. There aren't giant ovens, but Israel isn't going to stop until that land is indisputably theirs... And that entails the destruction of the natives.

No, it is not genocide. Israeli's are neither deliberately or systematically destroying the Palestinian population. The population in Gaza has been growing, consistently, and the population growth rate in the Gaza strip is 3.4%, 7th fastest and highest growth rate for any area in the world. The genocide argument is ridiculous and debunked.


And I've taken a logic class or two as well. I know that "bandwagon" isn't a valid argument... But it means something that America is the only country in the World who thinks what Israel is in the right, doesn't it? Maybe I'm wrong, though... American's are well known to be the most well-informed people in the World.

This is true, IMO.


A flat statement like, "Firstly, genocide doesn't exist," sounds like you're saying... Genocide doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't read like, "Firstly, there is no genocide in the occupied territories." And you know it doesn't. This is a non-issue anyway. I'm done with it.

And I've already explained the meaning and context. But as you said, it's over.


Fair question. The occupation started when the Israelis won the 6 Day War. Now you answer mine.

No. That's a what, not a why. The question was why did the occupation start, so begin from there. Why did the 6 day war cause the occupation?


I answered yours. Go for it.

Happy to once you do the "why".


That other people decide I'm being abrasive when a mod does doesn't surprise me. I expect it. You've given as much attitude as you've received. You've been condescending and rude, and I'll admit, I've been so too. If you're willing to dispense with the attitude, I am too -- but if you continue to behave as we both have thus far, you can't really expect me to just 'suck it up.'

You began this. You will get what you give. You want this to end, all you need to do is end it, by posting civilly...which you did above. Therefore, I have no need to respond with attitude. You should, however, hear the feedback you've been given. You post intelligently, but drop the attitude with people, or that intelligence will get lost. No one's coming at you...unless you fire the first salvo.

BTW, you never commented on my metaphor. :2razz:
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

No, it is not genocide. Israeli's are neither deliberately or systematically destroying the Palestinian population. The population in Gaza has been growing, consistently, and the population growth rate in the Gaza strip is 3.4%, 7th fastest and highest growth rate for any area in the world. The genocide argument is ridiculous and debunked.
Well over six-thousand (documented, and there's reason to believe the number of unrecorded deaths could greatly change that total) Palestinians have been killed in the past eight years. Around a thousand of those casualties were children. Israeli deaths are around six to seven hundred. How many do you think have died since the First Intifada? All of which could have been avoided had Israel respected the Palestinians' basic human rights, as opposed to the 'Iron Fist' policies they had in place at the time this all began. I don't know about the birth-rate in Gaza... I just have information on the death-rate.



This is true, IMO.
What, that American's are the most informed people in the World? You know I was being facetious... The majority of American's are extremely ill-informed on World events, and even the happenings in their own country.


No. That's a what, not a why. The question was why did the occupation start, so begin from there. Why did the 6 day war cause the occupation?
Massive acquisition of new land and occupation was the policy they chose towards that new land.

Happy to once you do the "why".
Check. As in the symbol, not the chess position.


You began this. You will get what you give. You want this to end, all you need to do is end it, by posting civilly...which you did above. Therefore, I have no need to respond with attitude. You should, however, hear the feedback you've been given. You post intelligently, but drop the attitude with people, or that intelligence will get lost. No one's coming at you...unless you fire the first salvo.
Parting snipe? Doesn't matter, I guess.

BTW, you never commented on my metaphor. :2razz:
Where is it? I don't remember.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

OMG! Yet another liberal terror-apologist smearing Israel for fighting back! :roll:

Yes, as always, they want peace, and as always, Muslims savagely murder their people without provocation.

I see no terror apologizes in the issue, all I said is : Is Israel still seeking for peace, I doesnt matter is you are biased to Israel, you can say your opinion quite politely, Although your saying about Muslims is ignorant, but all I can say is that It doesnt relate to our case, stick to the thread please :)
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Wow, over 100 pages. Is this a new DP record?

Am the winner :july_4th: :lol:
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I'd got a small comment on your signature Mr.American :

“We live in the greatest country in the history of the world, and I want to invite all of you to help me change it.” — Barack Obama

Well, note to the word "history", he didnt Necessarily meant that its a great country time being, maybe he meant any other time in the past (not too far :shock:), thats why he called to change it back like how it was ..
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Well over six-thousand (documented, and there's reason to believe the number of unrecorded deaths could greatly change that total) Palestinians have been killed in the past eight years. Around a thousand of those casualties were children. Israeli deaths are around six to seven hundred. How many do you think have died since the First Intifada? All of which could have been avoided had Israel respected the Palestinians' basic human rights, as opposed to the 'Iron Fist' policies they had in place at the time this all began. I don't know about the birth-rate in Gaza... I just have information on the death-rate.

And none of this translates into genocide. Population goes up. Birth rate goes up. Once does not see this when genocide is happening. Sorry, you are wrong.

And all of this could have been avoided if the Palestinians had just set up their country rather than being so intent on attacking and destroying Israel.


What, that American's are the most informed people in the World? You know I was being facetious... The majority of American's are extremely ill-informed on World events, and even the happenings in their own country.

I figured. I was just pointing out that you were wrong.

Massive acquisition of new land and occupation was the policy they chose towards that new land.


Check. As in the symbol, not the chess position.

OK, I am about to leave work. I will respond later.



Parting snipe? Doesn't matter, I guess.

Not at all.


Where is it? I don't remember.

It would discuss some of the comabativeness between us. Perhaps it is just more prudent to move on.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

His analogy is wrong and here is why. State governments were not involved except I think the inguisition. There have always been pockets of insane fanatics in every religion.

Here is another reason. Christianity does not teach violence or murder in the name of Christianity to further Christianity. Islam does. Get over that.


Stick to the point at hand. You didn't talk about "State Governments". You are changing your argument to fit what you think will help you win a point that you either mis-spoke about or don't understand.

You talked about what happened over a thousand years ago not being relevant to what is happening today. THAT is why you indicated that his analogy was wrong. If you want to make another case or point then fine, acknowledge that on the initial point, he was right and you assessment was wrong. Einstein didn't say E=MC4 and then when called on it, said... no no no, it is E=MC2 and THAT is why I am right and you were wrong. The analogy here was about assessment...

That being said, we are talking about religious leaders in the postion of authority. Governments of any kind are fair game. Theocracy, oligarchy, democracy, military dictatorship, etc. If they are lead by the religious, the his analogy is correct regardless.

Christianity may not actively teach violence, but the Inqusition and the Crusades were EXTREMELY violent actions undertaken in the name of their religion. So were the Salem Witch Trials... as far as affecting percentage of population, the trials were a really big deal. How is that any different than radical Islamists hi-jacking Islam today? It is like you are saying, since there are a billion Chinese and they are an extremely oppressive society that invades and rules innocent Tibet, then Budhists are violent too... the crazy budhist saren gas attacks, etc.

See how far off point I am getting in order to make a point... that is you. Deal with it.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

No, you are twisting my words. Christianity does not teach murder and violence. Islam does.

Perhaps you can show where the Qu'ran TEACHES Muslims to murder then?


I have shown passages from the Koran that state that very clearly. Now you are going to have to show us passages from the New Testament and the words of Jesus and his disciples who wrote the New Testament to back up your words. Please go ahead.

Uh-hum.... *clears throat*

Now, I hate to rain on your little ego trip, or whatever...
But you don't get to set the rules as you go along...
Christianity comprises the New and the OLD Testament...

Deal with it...


I don't agree you have proven me incorrect. Saying you have is not proof.

Great counter argument...



The New Testament is the book of Christianity teachings. It does not teach to murder and commit violence to further Christianity. The Koran does.

The Old Testament teaches murder and violence.
It also teaches fathers to sell their kids and whore their daughters...

The Old Testament IS part of Christianity...

This really is a losing position that you have, and all anybody that is interested needs to do is to go look up O.T. quotes to see the obviousness of what I, and Ego are saying...
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Wait, wait... 36(ish) years of Occupation and genocide aren't cause (I'm guessing that's what you mean by initial retaliation...) enough to retaliate? Before you make these kinds of statements, it might do you well to actually know about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The boring and juvenile debate section is in the Basement.
Go there and get your feet wet before you start with this blather upstairs. ;)
 
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