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OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

  • No

    Votes: 26 37.7%
  • Yes

    Votes: 43 62.3%

  • Total voters
    69
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Let's get back to reality. What happened over a thousand years ago does not help us deal with the problem. The problem we face today is militant Islam. Pointing to bad behavior over a thousand years ago is a useless waste of time and energy.


Absolutely incorrect.
It shows us a pattern of behavior with regards to religious leaders in the position of government power.

There are more modern cases too... the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the Protostant/Catholic Wars going on until just recently, the Hindus and the Caste System of today.

Islam is the Crusades or Inquisition of today, that is all. Get over it.
His analogy was perfect in what it displayed.



:2wave:
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Absolutely incorrect.
It shows us a pattern of behavior with regards to religious leaders in the position of government power.

There are more modern cases too... the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the Protostant/Catholic Wars going on until just recently, the Hindus and the Caste System of today.

Islam is the Crusades or Inquisition of today, that is all. Get over it.
His analogy was perfect in what it displayed.

:2wave:

His analogy is wrong and here is why. State governments were not involved except I think the inguisition. There have always been pockets of insane fanatics in every religion.

Here is another reason. Christianity does not teach violence or murder in the name of Christianity to further Christianity. Islam does. Get over that.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Islamic nations have always been at war and are fighting non-Islamic nations more than any other religious group. Bad rulers have always been in throughout history in every government, and they always will, the problem with Islam, as with any religion, is that if a government is run by the religious leaders, then they will run the country according to their religion and not according to politics which govern us all.

Can you support your sayings then, you are talking about the history of my religion, looks that you hadn't heard that Christians were living with Muslims in one nation.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Unfortunately, you are true about our governments and governers being cowards,,, its the most disgusting fact to me :(
But I think they started to wake up on helding those meetings
I hope those urgent meetings they are doing right now would came by a positive result.

If the meetings do not deal with the sin of them not helping Palestinians to find some other party than Hamas, it will be a huge tragedy. To have good government of the people, the people must have good instructions.

I don’t think the Palestinians are getting the right kind of moral support. “Fighting terrorists will only make more terrorists,” is not moral support; it is excusing the reaction, it is making martyrs for a belief that own ideas of justice or taking the law into one’s own hands should be supported (I can quote Saddam’s “own ideas” of the magical “They“), it is immoral support, it is excusing the problem of bad government, it condemns Islam.

Jenin once said: “Playing Hamas and Fatah off against each other is how Gazans see Israeli/American policy currently.”
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/21955-hamas-stand.html#post591549

Long before they got to that point your governments should have forced on them an alternative party, by making it clear that Hamas was unacceptable.

The shear hypocrisy of any Arab nation suggesting going back to 1967 borders with right of return was worth recognition of Israel, while letting the Palestinians elect “peace is only temporary” Hamas, reeks to the highest heavens. It can only be seen by me as a gross caricature of Arab/Muslim policy being influenced by forked tongued devils whispering in their ears. We who have Cherokee cousins in Oklahoma see only a trail of tears from such trickery:

Saudi Vision for Peace in the Middle East - El-Moneif

"Hamas Proposes 10-Year Truce For Israeli Withdrawal"
Islam Online- News Section
Is that a Joke, or what?

If Islam is not the problem, a lack of education, and a lack of good government is. Our only real hope is that Islam is not the problem, but all our understanding of it is. Feel free to expose to your friends the forked tongued devils who profess to be followers and protectors of Islam.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

You mean fake Islamic militans,
You are talking about a strange logic : "you striked me, I have all the right to strike you" isn't that what you said about Hamas rockets and how had Israel responded to it ?

Am talking from the same logic (not Bush Necessarily) If any country got striked by another country , I think this country must defend like how Israel did .

The Islamic militants in the Iraq don't represent the country - they represent their own selfish interests.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

His analogy is wrong and here is why. State governments were not involved except I think the inguisition. There have always been pockets of insane fanatics in every religion.

Precisely, the problem is that you are being dishonest. You are making the case that Christianity should be forgiven for it's massive mistakes which took hundreds of thousands of lives, while stating Islam is a cancer which needs to be removed from our world.


Here is another reason. Christianity does not teach violence or murder in the name of Christianity to further Christianity. Islam does. Get over that.

I have proven to you that is incorrect in another thread.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The Islamic militants in the Iraq don't represent the country - they represent their own selfish interests.

Agreed, same as the IDF are doing now.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

If Islam is not the problem, a lack of education, and a lack of good government is.
true


Feel free to expose to your friends the forked tongued devils who profess to be followers and protectors of Islam.

mm, not my job :2wave:
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Agreed, same as the IDF are doing now.

WRONG.

The IDF is killing the scum that are launching rockets into Israel.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

WRONG.

The IDF is killing the scum that are launching rockets into Israel.

It is quite unfortunate that the scum are not the only ones the IDF are killing.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Precisely, the problem is that you are being dishonest. You are making the case that Christianity should be forgiven for it's massive mistakes which took hundreds of thousands of lives, while stating Islam is a cancer which needs to be removed from our world.




I have proven to you that is incorrect in another thread.

No, you are twisting my words. Christianity does not teach murder and violence. Islam does.

I don't agree you have proven me incorrect. Saying you have is not proof.

The New Testament is the book of Christianity teachings. It does not teach to murder and commit violence to further Christianity. The Koran does.

I have shown passages from the Koran that state that very clearly. Now you are going to have to show us passages from the New Testament and the words of Jesus and his disciples who wrote the New Testament to back up your words. Please go ahead.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

No, you are twisting my words. Christianity does not teach murder and violence. Islam does.

Islam teaches just as much violence as Christianity does. Please remove your blinders and try to look at this objectively.

The New Testament is the book of Christianity teachings. It does not teach to murder and commit violence to further Christianity. The Koran does.
The New Testament is only one half of the Bible. Your willingness to ignore the Old Testament is quite telling. Cannot let facts get in the way of your argument, right?

I have shown passages from the Koran that state that very clearly. Now you are going to have to show us passages from the New Testament and the words of Jesus and his disciples who wrote the New Testament to back up your words. Please go ahead.
Ah! So we shall ignore the Old Testament and move on to the New Testament. So it is violence from the NT you want? Ask and you shall receive:

Matthew 10:21 - And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 10:34 - I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword(Jesus said this).
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

It is quite unfortunate that the scum are not the only ones the IDF are killing.

Agreed. However, that is Hamas' fault. Hamas hides among civilians and uses them as human shields.

Hamas has the blood of innocents on its hands ... and the brainwashed people of Palestine still have the gaul to blame Israel.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Islam teaches just as much violence as Christianity does. Please remove your blinders and try to look at this objectively.

The New Testament is only one half of the Bible. Your willingness to ignore the Old Testament is quite telling. Cannot let facts get in the way of your argument, right?

Ah! So we shall ignore the Old Testament and move on to the New Testament. So it is violence from the NT you want? Ask and you shall receive:

Matthew 10:21 - And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

This is not teaching to put your parents to death. It is saying what will happen because of evil. Jesus is not teaching to kill your parents. He is warning what will happen. This does not teach to kill your parents in the name of Jesus. You are confused.

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This teaches the mercy of God. If you choose Jesus then you choose life. You make the choice. Again, this is not teaching to kill anyone in the name of Jesus. You are confused.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Again, your choice. There is nothing in this verse that teaches Christians to kill anyone in the name of Jesus. You're confused.

Matthew 10:34 - I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword(Jesus said this).

The sword is used in the New Testament as a picture of the word of God. The word of God separates like a sword separates. The same picture is used in the book of Hebrews. Jesus never told any of his followers to kill anyone. You're confused.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Precisely, the problem is that you are being dishonest. You are making the case that Christianity should be forgiven for it's massive mistakes which took hundreds of thousands of lives

Why shouldn't "Christianity" be forgiven for mistakes it made hundreds or thousands of years ago? You can't hold modern Christianity (adherents/institutions) responsible for the Crusades or Inquisition anymore than you can hold modern white people responsible for slavery.

Christianity in its current form has overwhelmingly adapted to modern standards of philosophy (liberty, equality, justice, science) and governance (democracy, free markets, human rights), so why shouldn't it be viewed in a different light than Islam which, as a whole, has failed to properly integrate the aforementioned values into their societies?

Here's a thought experiment to consider if you're still incredulous:

If you had to choose between living in a random Christian country or a random Muslim country which one would you pick? I think we all know the answer to that one...

while stating Islam is a cancer which needs to be removed from our world.

Anyone who claims that Islam is a cancer and needs to be treated as such is obviously going overboard. Something like that doesn't need to be rebutted, we know it’s wrong, but this obfuscates a more important point concerning Islam which is this: Islam as a whole needs to better adapt to modern standards of thought and governance. Political correctness be damned. We cannot afford to beat around the bush in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings or offending their precious sensibilities. That there are some peaceful adherents to Islam and some countries making progress simply isn't enough.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

You know what EgoffTib? I’ve sat back and watched you try to trot out your naive moral equivalency arguments throughout this and many threads related to religion. In particular Christian religion. You of course have a great many issues with Christianity. Unless you would like to claim otherwise? You know me, I just “dream up” these whacky ideas of mine! So far off base am I! You are of course the high minded type who tried to “joke” that Christians were baptized in the urine of Christ. All in good humor naturally. So let us explore your deeply considered logic in this thread.
It is quite unfortunate that the scum are not the only ones the IDF are killing.
Since the scum hide amongst civilians, by design to highlight civilian deaths, your point is what?
Islam teaches just as much violence as Christianity does. Please remove your blinders and try to look at this objectively.
By all means do explain how either Islam or Christianity “teaches just as much violence” as the other. Simply put it is down to you to explain away the basic “teaching” as you say, that ALL who will not convert must fall to the sword. We/I shall await your learned theological understanding of this basic “teaching of violence” you lecture about.
The New Testament is only one half of the Bible. Your willingness to ignore the Old Testament is quite telling. Cannot let facts get in the way of your argument, right?
Yes God knows that you don’t want facts to get in the way of your prognostications. So let us look at your own stated understanding of basic facts, which many aside from you have been able to grasp for centuries!

Ah! So we shall ignore the Old Testament and move on to the New Testament. So it is violence from the NT you want? Ask and you shall receive:

Matthew 10:21 - And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
WOW, please tell me you honestly and truly meant that this equates killing all who will not convert to Christinaity! Great grasp of the topic there Egoff.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
So you need a basic tutorial about the life in the here and now versus the hereafter?
Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
You mean damned, in the afterlife? Where the virgins await those who put to the sword the infidels?
Matthew 10:34 - I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword(Jesus said this).
Chuckle. Way to post a relevant quote McFly! Allow me to illustrate precisely the kind of bluster and bait I am talking about with regard to you. From this very thread, which oddly you continue to pontificate in. Go figure!

I could care less who is more believable. I do, however, care that we support Israel. Let the idiots blow themselves to pieces, we should have no involvement.
Israel's been working on that by expanding their country over the last 60 years to three times it's original size. I think it is quite hilarious when people then wonder why the Palestinians are upset.

Well there's your problem right there...

My problem is not taking one side's word for something in warfare?

No, you stated yourself that you don't care who is more truthful. That is your problem.

Incorrect. I said that I could "care less who is more BELIEVABLE", because being more believable does not mean one is telling the truth.

And what makes one more believable than the other?

I suggest you ask that question to someone who finds either of them to be believable, since I do not.

And there is your problem right there...you don't have a proper sense of perspective given the past situations with either.

And there is your problem right there... Claiming that I do not have a "proper" sense of perspective is your opinion. I am fully aware of the events that have unfolded over the past 60 years in that region.

I simply don't believe that you do. If you were fully aware, you would have a better sense of perspective when it comes to Hamas. But you don't.

Again, the phrase "better sense of perspective" is indicative of your closed mind on this issue. Both groups have made poor choices and taken countless innocent lives. My solution is to let them deal with their own problems. I have my opinion on the matter and you have yours. It's really that simple.

Except the fact that your opinion lacks perspective. It is reminiscent of some 18 or 19 year old puffing up his chest and claiming knowledge on a subject he simply doesn't.

That's no insult, just an observation. I miss the days when people used to think I was a mere boy.

You have yet to demonstrate why this is true.

Really? More opinion?

No...you stated that. It's an observation of facts about you.

Too bad you can't see through your self-imposed blinders.

You are right, I did state that I trusted neither one. It is your OPINION(stick with me here) that my choice to support neither country is wrong and lacking perspective. You have yet to explain, using facts, why the stance I have chosen is the wrong one.

The fact is, your sense of perspective is skewed. That comes directly from your refusal to acknowledge who the more truthful and believable party is. There's no help for someone who has no regard for the truth.

Again, this is more opinion.
Opinion arrived at by the fact that you disregard truth.
No, not opinion. Hamas has a history of underhandedness and lack of integrity. You fail.
In your opinion, it is Israel. In my opinion it is neither. So now where are we?
Indeed.
Then start having a deeper respect for truth and you won't have such a skewed perception of the world.
Yet it is your opinion that I "disregard truth". This is getting amusing now.
Israel has a history of rapid and ruthless expansion. What is your point?
No, you stated it yourself. Would you like to backpedal out of that now?
Israel has a history of rapid and ruthless expansion. What is your point?
That has nothing to do with the original point of contention: whether Hamas is hiding weapons in civilian locations. You can't even keep up with the discussion.
I'm starting to get the distinct impression I actually am dealing with a teenager here.
You are. I suggest you check my profile.
Then this whole time I was holding you to a much higher standard than I should have been. No worries...you are right on track for your age. I will back off.
Well I would like you to continue holding me to that standard, I need a good challenge.

Apparently you forgot you “needed a good challenge” here and so you just kept on plowing ahead on the same path, despite your earlier claims. :doh
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Israel came into occupation of those lands through a war started by the Arabs. Israel has the legal right to remain in belligerant occupation of those lands until a treaty of peace formally disposes of those lands. The aggression was the Arabs, NOT Israel.

And the Arabs went to war with Israel because it took Arab land. Israel has a right to exist today but going back like you are will not give the occupations and settlements just grounds.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The UN has the right to decide by being virtue of the successor of the League of Nations. Remember, the British Mandate was assigned by the League of Nations. Thus, the UN does have a right to have a saw in this matter as it did with territories covered by its own Trusteeship System.
This does not give the UN the right to remove all rights to private property. That is pure socialism you are peddling again.


However, the issue here is STATE sovereignty, NOT individual property rights -regardless of how much you are trying to make this the issue.
No the issue is individual property rights, it is you trying to confuse the issue.


I did NOT say the UN decides right and wrong, but the UN had jurisdiction here as this was part of the League of Nations Mandatory System that the UN, as the successor organization to the League, took responsibility for.
If the UN does not decide right and wrong, and it if it does then it has contradicted itself, then you argument is not irrelevant. None of the above gives the Jews the right to emigrate en masse or steal the lands of the Arabs. Not that I'm suggesting Israel now has no right to exist only that when you claim the Arabs invaded Israel one can keep going and show the original invasion was the Jews before 1948. So saying the occupations are justified by this route and certainly the settlements will not work.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Precisely, the problem is that you are being dishonest. You are making the case that Christianity should be forgiven for it's massive mistakes which took hundreds of thousands of lives, while stating Islam is a cancer which needs to be removed from our world.

I think those figures for Xtianity are somewhat steep. Even the much talked about Inquisition, aside from often being political, was rivalled in a few years by the French revolutionists. Compared to the last few centuries the religious wars of Christianity and Islam look small indeed.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

And the Arabs went to war with Israel because it took Arab land. Israel has a right to exist today but going back like you are will not give the occupations and settlements just grounds.

When did Arabs have sovereignty over that land? It has been a VERY LONG time since they did. How can you say Israel took over Arab land when there had been no Arab sovereign over that land for hundreds of years?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

When did Arabs have sovereignty over that land? It has been a VERY LONG time since they did. How can you say Israel took over Arab land when there had been no Arab sovereign over that land for hundreds of years?
Most of the land was the private property of the Arabs before 1918.

Don't start the Bolshevism again. The fact the statehood of the land changes doesn't mean that all ancient, traditional rights to private property on it are removed and to say so is pure socialism and against Catholic social teaching.

Please explain how you reconcile your support for socialism here with your Catholicism?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

This does not give the UN the right to remove all rights to private property. That is pure socialism you are peddling again.

No the issue is individual property rights, it is you trying to confuse the issue.

The issue is state sovereignty, not private property. YOU are the one who is trying to posit that private property is at issue here, but it isn't. It is who is sovereign over the land. Who has sovereign rights?


If the UN does not decide right and wrong, and it if it does then it has contradicted itself, then you argument is not irrelevant. None of the above gives the Jews the right to emigrate en masse or steal the lands of the Arabs. Not that I'm suggesting Israel now has no right to exist only that when you claim the Arabs invaded Israel one can keep going and show the original invasion was the Jews before 1948. So saying the occupations are justified by this route and certainly the settlements will not work.

The UN has jurisdiction in this specific case because the territory was a League of Nations mandate following World War I. It was a part of the Ottomom Empire, which was on the losing side of the war. It was placed in a Mandate to be administered by Britain. The UN inherited the Mandate system and thus has the jurisdiction to make a determination about the future of the territory.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The issue is state sovereignty, not private property. YOU are the one who is trying to posit that private property is at issue here, but it isn't. It is who is sovereign over the land. Who has sovereign rights?
No the issue is whether the Jews aggressed against the people of Palestine by stealing their land and emigrating en masse and this has nothing to do with sovereignty. This is only being brought up because you can't contruct a proper argument and keep making dodgy historical detours while blurring the whole picture and of course putting forward completely socialist viewpoints. If you want to talk about Arab aggression then the prior Jewish aggression and land-theft is certainly relevant and has little to do with statehood.

Or we could just keep to the here and now and then condemn the Israeli occupation and settlement and the Hamas terrorist attacks.


The UN has jurisdiction in this specific case because the territory was a League of Nations mandate following World War I. It was a part of the Ottomom Empire, which was on the losing side of the war. It was placed in a Mandate to be administered by Britain. The UN inherited the Mandate system and thus has the jurisdiction to make a determination about the future of the territory.
Aside from the fact that makes absolutely no sense it wouldn't change the fact that the original emigration and land theft was an aggression.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

No the issue is whether the Jews aggressed against the people of Palestine by stealing their land and emigrating en masse and this has nothing to do with sovereignty. This is only being brought up because you can't contruct a proper argument and keep making dodgy historical detours while blurring the whole picture and of course putting forward completely socialist viewpoints. If you want to talk about Arab aggression then the prior Jewish aggression and land-theft is certainly relevant and has little to do with statehood.

Or we could just keep to the here and now and then condemn the Israeli occupation and settlement and the Hamas terrorist attacks.

Aside from the fact that makes absolutely no sense it wouldn't change the fact that the original emigration and land theft was an aggression.

Actually, the issue is jurisdiction. The British Mandate allowed Great Britain to be the administrators over Palestine. From the beginning the Palestinian Mandate was to be divided into three areas; Jordan, Israel, and an Arab-Palestine. Individual rights were less relevant than the plan to divide the area. One the UN was created, the Mandate, still governed by Great Britain, was now overseen by the UN, until the British handed over administration to them in 1947.

I understand that some do not like this, but that is irrelevant. It is what occurred. It was not aggression. It was authorized and mandated by the UN. Again, whether you like it or not is irrelevant. The only aggression that occurred was Arab aggression, going against the authorized decision of the UN. And, once again, it is irrelevant whether they liked it or not.

The problem with this entire line of debate is that the side that blames the Partition is just playing the victim. The Partition happened. It's not changing. Get over it. What is the current solution? Complaining about the partition is far from it.
 
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