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Do the remaining Trump supporters have any credibility in calling themselves patriots?

Can someone voting for Trump this year still credibly call themselves a patriot?


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President Trump, in the over 3 and a half years he has been in office has done the following:

Implemented a family separation on our Southern border that intended through shear cruelty to dissuade Latin American immigrants coming here to seek asylum from crossing illegally. A policy that to this day still has some parents separated from their children.

Has publicly showered with praise Kim Jong Un, the enemy dictator of North Korea, a man that has ordered Americans tortured to death, and received nothing in return.

Has through his shear incompetence resulted in the United States, a country with just 5% of the world's population, leading the world in Covid-19 deaths with 150,000 plus Americans dead so far under his watch - and for those of you that think its just taking the elderly, just 2 blocks from us, a family we know just lose their special needs daughter to this disease.

He is a man that is beloved by white nationalists. They love him like no president ever before. His rallies are as white as a klan rally, confederate flags typically flying outside of them, and he uses language that could have easily been said by David Duke or the late George Wallace. We all remember the "good people on both sides", but it goes beyond that. He spent the Obama years as the biggest birther on earth. Has claimed a Hispanic judge could not be fair to him due to the judge being Hispanic. He has retweeted white supremacist propaganda on numerous occasions, and his most trusted advisor, Stephen Miller, is a white nationalist and has been his entire adult life.

He is a man that calls himself a stable genius and brags about passing a cognitive test, but cannot even manage to put together a coherent thought when speaking off the cuff, and often rambles more than a homeless psychotic yelling in a park.

He has spent more time not working than any president in history, his administration is replete with nepotism, and now he is even threatening to move the election, a power, thankfully, he doesn't have.

He has teargassed peacefully Americans just so that he could have a photo-op in front of a church he doesn't attend, holding a Bible he has never read.

He is a president that tried to shake down our allies in order to get fake dirt on his election opponent. He is a president that publicly sides with Putin over American intelligence. He is a president that tells China their concentration camps are a good idea. He is a president that has trashed those that have served this country throughout his time in office.

By any measure, his conduct in office is utterly disgraceful.


We have two adopted Chinese daughters that get to hear their president call Covid-19 the "Kung Flu" to cheers from his all-white supporters. They get to hear that kind of bigotry out of their president in the year 2020. Think about that. Should tens of millions of Americans of color, endure yet another 4 years of a racist, bigoted president, just so that you can get more judges you want?

I have a son that is serving this country in uniform and could be deployed to Bagram in Afghanistan where Russians will pay militants $100k for his life, and the president not only does nothing to Russia, he rewards them with boycotting the G-7 to get them back in it and pulling troops from Germany, a Putin wet dream. Moreover, he calls it fake news. Even though we know they paid a bounty on at least 3 American servicemen so far. Was it fake news to the parents that saw their son come home to them in a flag-draped coffin?

I am 44 years old. In my lifetime there have been presidents I mostly agreed with and presidents I often disagreed with. Yet one thing I always knew was that all of them, flawed as they may have been, loved this country, cared for Americans, knew their responsibility to those that serve our country, and had a conscience. I disagreed with Bush on many things, but I knew he cared for this country, and that he thought he was doing the right thing for this country. The same is true with Obama, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, and Carter. In contrast, Trump only cares about himself. He is mentally incapable of caring for anyone else, probably not even his daughter he has publicly perved on.

So, if you want to vote for Trump this November, it is your right to do so, but don't tell me you are a patriot. Don't tell me you give a damn about those that are serving this country. If you vote for this despicable, America hating, piece of human garbage come November, it means you love power and Trump far more than you love this country, its people, and those that serve it. It's your right, but as far as I am concerned, you can own that shame for the rest of your life.

Those of you that are still planning on voting for this man come November need to do some serious soul searching, and frankly, you need to look at the kind of posters on here that agree with you.
 
In that it’s not Trump supporters tearing down statues of George Washington, burning cities, seeking to transform the country into something a little more Marxist or mindlessly supporting endless confinement of her citizens in their homes, **** yeah.
 
His rallies are as white as a klan rally, confederate flags typically flying outside of them, and he uses language that could have easily been said by David Duke or the late George Wallace.

The dude threatened to veto the defense spending bill over Confederate naming rights. He's no friend to the USA.
 
President Trump, in the over 3 and a half years he has been in office has done the following:..

...America hating, piece of human garbage come November, it means you love power and Trump far more than you love this country, its people, and those that serve it. It's your right, but as far as I am concerned, you can own that shame for the rest of your life.

Those of you that are still planning on voting for this man come November need to do some serious soul searching, and frankly, you need to look at the kind of posters on here that agree with you.

Hmmm...

Patriot: a person who loves their country and, if necessary, will fight for it.
PATRIOT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Using that definition?

Despite your partisanly deceitful mischaracterizations of those "actions" you attribute to him. :doh

Despite your attempt to demonize anyone who disagrees with you. :naughty

Yes, I believe I can credibly call myself one and still support the current President. :coffeepap:
 
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So, if you want to vote for Trump this November, it is your right to do so, but don't tell me you are a patriot. Don't tell me you give a damn about those that are serving this country. If you vote for this despicable, America hating, piece of human garbage come November, it means you love power and Trump far more than you love this country, its people, and those that serve it. It's your right, but as far as I am concerned, you can own that shame for the rest of your life.

Those of you that are still planning on voting for this man come November need to do some serious soul searching, and frankly, you need to look at the kind of posters on here that agree with you.

I voted "Yes." A person can vote for a candidate, any candidate, no matter how horrible and still credibly call themselves a patriot. People can vote for those who have taken the side of our nation's enemies, whether Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar or Ted Kennedy and still genuinely love our country and want it to succeed and prosper.

While I do not plan on voting for Donald Trump, I have to tell you, SouthernDemocrat: it is extremely difficult if not impossible for anyone of any political persuasion to be shamed by someone who they believe already hates them and holds them in contempt and who they do not already have some level of affection, friendship and/or respect for. Think of the times when you have been made to feel ashamed in your life by something truly shameful you had said or done. Were any of those instances by someone who you believed despised you, or did not respect you or your views in any way? You can only shame someone who holds you and your opinion in some degree of esteem and you hold in some degree of esteem in return. Otherwise you are just spitting in their face and doing nothing productive.

If you think you would be swayed by such rhetoric of being attacked in your deepest integrity and love of your country, then by all means, continue to use it. Otherwise, you are simply engaging in onanism. Far be it from me to interrupt.
 
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While I do not plan on voting for Donald Trump, I have to tell you, SouthernDemocrat: it is extremely difficult if not impossible for anyone of any political persuasion to be shamed by someone who they believe already hates them and holds them in contempt and who they do not already have some level of affection, friendship and/or respect for. Think of the times when you have been made to feel ashamed in your life by something truly shameful you had said or done. Were any of those instances by someone who you believed despised you, or did not respect you or your views in any way? You can only shame someone who holds you and your opinion in some degree of esteem. Otherwise you are just spitting in their face and doing nothing productive.

Almost no one who planned on voting for Donald Trump is going to be swayed by you, because you are essentially coming in and saying "Hey you piece of garbage, irrespective of any underlying reason, you are scum for planning on voting for this person, because by voting for [X Political Candidate] you are signing up for everything he has ever done AND everything every single one of his supporters have done. Ergo, you are garbage. The only way I will respect you is for you to forego your beliefs or any interests you may have and let my candidate win. Those are my terms. You filth."

If you think you would be swayed by such rhetoric, then by all means, continue to use it. Otherwise, you are simply engaging in onanism.

You're right, but think of it from his perspective...
When reason, logic, evidence, science, and results all fail to convince people, what have we got to lose by shaming them?
 
You're right, but think of it from his perspective...
When reason, logic, evidence, science, and results all fail to convince people, what have we got to lose by shaming them?

Well that is the problem. I would argue that you are actually not shaming them at all. The reason being is that you cannot shame someone who does not feel ashamed because you can only be made to feel ashamed by someone for whom you have respect and who you feel had hitherto respected you. You can only lose face and be dishonored before your peers. You cannot be shamed by people you hate and who you think hate you too. Nor can you be reasoned with by them.

I cannot think of anyone who has ever been convinced to change their mind or behavior through reason, logic, evidence, science or shame if it is presented to them by someone they believe holds them in contempt. After all, has your mind ever been changed by someone you believed despised you and showed you no respect from the moment you met them (or they found out your political leanings), even if they cited their sources and presented well-documented evidence to back up their arguments? If it has, I would be surprised.
 
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It may be that, if the country gets through this, looking back this unfortunate era will be best be understood as a sort of foreign occupation. A regime without popular support clumsily attempts to build a cult of personality around a bungling state media creation; maintains cordial relations only with (and indeed was installed with the overt assistance of) foreign authoritarian gangsters; spends four years lining the pockets of its unqualified, often nepotistic, appointments and cult leader; dissolves our alliances, trade agreements, and leadership commitments to weaken our global position; shreds our democratic traditions, institutions, and norms to protect Dear Leader at all costs; and during its incompetent mismanagement of a crisis doles out what little assistance it offers to governors based on how publicly they grovel and whether they display sufficient subservience. It's little wonder the regime is attempting to pre-emptively discredit, or even postpone, the election.

So no, I don't believe the collaborationists will be looked back upon as patriots.
 
President Trump, in the over 3 and a half years he has been in office has done the following:

Implemented a family separation on our Southern border that intended through shear cruelty to dissuade Latin American immigrants coming here to seek asylum from crossing illegally. A policy that to this day still has some parents separated from their children.

Has publicly showered with praise Kim Jong Un, the enemy dictator of North Korea, a man that has ordered Americans tortured to death, and received nothing in return.


He is a man that is beloved by white nationalists. They love him like no president ever before. His rallies are as white as a klan rally, confederate flags typically flying outside of them, and he uses language that could have easily been said by David Duke or the late George Wallace. We all remember the "good people on both sides", but it goes beyond that. He spent the Obama years as the biggest birther on earth. Has claimed a Hispanic judge could not be fair to him due to the judge being Hispanic. He has retweeted white supremacist propaganda on numerous occasions, and his most trusted advisor, Stephen Miller, is a white nationalist and has been his entire adult life.

He is a man that calls himself a stable genius and brags about passing a cognitive test, but cannot even manage to put together a coherent thought when speaking off the cuff, and often rambles more than a homeless psychotic yelling in a park.

He has spent more time not working than any president in history, his administration is replete with nepotism, and now he is even threatening to move the election, a power, thankfully, he doesn't have.

He has teargassed peacefully Americans just so that he could have a photo-op in front of a church he doesn't attend, holding a Bible he has never read.

He is a president that tried to shake down our allies in order to get fake dirt on his election opponent. He is a president that publicly sides with Putin over American intelligence. He is a president that tells China their concentration camps are a good idea. He is a president that has trashed those that have served this country throughout his time in office.

By any measure, his conduct in office is utterly disgraceful.


We have two adopted Chinese daughters that get to hear their president call Covid-19 the "Kung Flu" to cheers from his all-white supporters. They get to hear that kind of bigotry out of their president in the year 2020. Think about that. Should tens of millions of Americans of color, endure yet another 4 years of a racist, bigoted president, just so that you can get more judges you want?

I have a son that is serving this country in uniform and could be deployed to Bagram in Afghanistan where Russians will pay militants $100k for his life, and the president not only does nothing to Russia, he rewards them with boycotting the G-7 to get them back in it and pulling troops from Germany, a Putin wet dream. Moreover, he calls it fake news. Even though we know they paid a bounty on at least 3 American servicemen so far. Was it fake news to the parents that saw their son come home to them in a flag-draped coffin?

I am 44 years old. In my lifetime there have been presidents I mostly agreed with and presidents I often disagreed with. Yet one thing I always knew was that all of them, flawed as they may have been, loved this country, cared for Americans, knew their responsibility to those that serve our country, and had a conscience. I disagreed with Bush on many things, but I knew he cared for this country, and that he thought he was doing the right thing for this country. The same is true with Obama, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, and Carter. In contrast, Trump only cares about himself. He is mentally incapable of caring for anyone else, probably not even his daughter he has publicly perved on.

So, if you want to vote for Trump this November, it is your right to do so, but don't tell me you are a patriot. Don't tell me you give a damn about those that are serving this country. If you vote for this despicable, America hating, piece of human garbage come November, it means you love power and Trump far more than you love this country, its people, and those that serve it. It's your right, but as far as I am concerned, you can own that shame for the rest of your life.

Those of you that are still planning on voting for this man come November need to do some serious soul searching, and frankly, you need to look at the kind of posters on here that agree with you.
I'll leave you guys to get on with the 7869th "We hate Trump" circle jerk. Remember: wear masks and use hand sanitizer.
 
Well that is the problem. I would argue that you are actually not shaming them at all. The reason being is that you cannot shame someone who does not feel ashamed because you can only be made to feel ashamed by someone for whom you have respect and who you feel had hitherto respected you. You can only lose face and be dishonored before your peers. You cannot be shamed by people you hate and who you think hate you too. Nor can you be reasoned with by them.

So the only thing to lose is "face and be dishonored before your peers". I do not lose respect for southerndemocrat because of his shaming of Trump supporters. I support his attempt at trying to convert those who whether intentionally or unintentionally are subverting democracy.
The ends, in this case, justify the means.
 
I voted "Yes." A person can vote for a candidate, any candidate, no matter how horrible and still credibly call themselves a patriot. People can vote for those who have taken the side of our nation's enemies, whether Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar or Ted Kennedy and still genuinely love our country and want it to succeed and prosper.

While I do not plan on voting for Donald Trump, I have to tell you, SouthernDemocrat: it is extremely difficult if not impossible for anyone of any political persuasion to be shamed by someone who they believe already hates them and holds them in contempt and who they do not already have some level of affection, friendship and/or respect for. Think of the times when you have been made to feel ashamed in your life by something truly shameful you had said or done. Were any of those instances by someone who you believed despised you, or did not respect you or your views in any way? You can only shame someone who holds you and your opinion in some degree of esteem and you hold in some degree of esteem in return. Otherwise you are just spitting in their face and doing nothing productive.

If you think you would be swayed by such rhetoric of being attacked in your deepest integrity and love of your country, then by all means, continue to use it. Otherwise, you are simply engaging in onanism. Far be it from me to interrupt.

I made the mistake of actually reading the OP and I have to say, what you posted is a far better version of the profanity laden stuff I typed out.
 
You're right, but think of it from his perspective...
When reason, logic, evidence, science, and results all fail to convince people, what have we got to lose by shaming them?

Why would you assume anyone would care enough about his hurt feelings to feel shame?
 
You're right, but think of it from his perspective...
When reason, logic, evidence, science, and results all fail to convince people, what have we got to lose by shaming them?

Respect. For you personally, for your cause, for your party, for you upbringing, for your logic (or lack thereof). Your "reason, logic, evidence, science, and results " which are specious at best, are not enough to overcome the stench of liberals tearing down our cities, denigrating our police, providing extremely poor candidates, and generally ******** on history.
 
It may be that, if the country gets through this, looking back this unfortunate era will be best be understood as a sort of foreign occupation. A regime without popular support clumsily attempts to build a cult of personality around a bungling state media creation; maintains cordial relations only with (and indeed was installed with the overt assistance of) foreign authoritarian gangsters; spends four years lining the pockets of its unqualified, often nepotistic, appointments and cult leader; dissolves our alliances, trade agreements, and leadership commitments to weaken our global position; shreds our democratic traditions, institutions, and norms to protect Dear Leader at all costs; and during its incompetent mismanagement of a crisis doles out what little assistance it offers to governors based on how publicly they grovel and whether they display sufficient subservience. It's little wonder the regime is attempting to pre-emptively discredit, or even postpone, the election.

So no, I don't believe the collaborationists will be looked back upon as patriots.

So you are calling the domestic terrorists "collaborationists". I agree, they will not be looked on as patriots.
 
In that it’s not Trump supporters tearing down statues of George Washington, burning cities, seeking to transform the country into something a little more Marxist or mindlessly supporting endless confinement of her citizens in their homes, **** yeah.

1. Armed Trump supporters took over government buildings because they couldn't get their haircut during a pandemic.

2. No one has ever been "confined to their homes". We just went through a stage during the initial outbreak when restaurants and non-essential businesses were closed in order to reduce the rate Covid-19 was spreading. Considering that 150,000 of your fellow Americans have now died due to this pandemic, you would think that anyone that gave a damn about their fellow Americans would see the need in us having done that.

3. There are elements of the far left that were trying to take down statues of George Washington, they don't even represent 5% of Biden supporters, moreover, the majority of those on the extreme left like that are not people that vote for Democrats. If they vote at all, they vote for Green Party candidates.

4. The taring of civil rights protestors, the vast, vast majority of which have been peaceful, as "Marxists", is an old white supremacy canard that goes all the way back to the 1920s. There has not been a single civil rights movement in 100 years that white nationalists have not called Marxist.

America is not statues. America, our country, is our constitution, our institutions, our people, and this land. The statues are just decorations. We have a president that is rewarding a country that is paying Afghan militants a $100,000 bounty for the heads of U.S. servicemen. Yet you are more concerned with some extremists possibly vandalizing a George Washington statue than that? Really??? Do you know anyone serving this country right now that could find themselves put into harm's way? Do you know any family's with a son or daughter serving that could be put into harm's way where Russia will pay $100k for their head, and our president not only does nothing, he rewards them? If you think a ****ing statue is more important than that, then brother you need to do some serious, serious self-reflection because I think you are probably a good person, and thus you will be ashamed of this someday.

We have just 5% of the world's population, yet despite being a modern developed country with a modern highly developed healthcare system, we lead the world in Covid-19 deaths. Who's fault is that other than this incompetent president and his incompetent administration? As a point of comparison, if you combine Vietnam, Laos, Japan, and much of Southeast Asia, they have about 450 million people there, yet 1% of our deaths. Other than Japan, these are not highly developed countries, yet they have 1% of our deaths. You don't think the lives of your fellow Americans are more important than a ****ing statue? Dude, seriously, you need to do some soul searching. As I type this, there is a good family who's home is not 100 yards from here, that is about to bury their special needs daughter, 20 years old, and a victim of this disease. That one life is worth more than a goddamn statue.

Look around you. Look at the situation this country is in today. The protests, the riots, the 150,000 deaths so far, the small businesses that are collapsing by the thousands along with the work and dreams of their owners, the millions out of work, the coming storm of evictions and foreclosures, the biggest economic contraction in our country's history.... All of this is happening under President Trump. Is he to blame for all of it, no, but you know as well as I do, whether you admit it to yourself or not, if we had any other president in office, Republican or Democrat, we would be in far better shape as a country right now because that president would actually give a damn about the people he or she served.
 
Do the remaining Trump supporters have any credibility in calling themselves patriots?

sure. however, they support a wannabe despot asshole.
 
The problem with patriotism is that we can assign it to whatever vision of the country we think it should stand for. Therefore it is entirely patriotic to be protesting trump's authoritarianism or police brutality, or to be demanding more respect for the flag or a forgive and forget attitude to the confederacy.

On the other hand worshipping at the altar of confederate 'graven images' is probably taking it a bit too far; as is pulling down statues of George Washington.

Take your pick people.
 
I voted "Yes." A person can vote for a candidate, any candidate, no matter how horrible and still credibly call themselves a patriot. People can vote for those who have taken the side of our nation's enemies, whether Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar or Ted Kennedy and still genuinely love our country and want it to succeed and prosper.

While I do not plan on voting for Donald Trump, I have to tell you, SouthernDemocrat: it is extremely difficult if not impossible for anyone of any political persuasion to be shamed by someone who they believe already hates them and holds them in contempt and who they do not already have some level of affection, friendship and/or respect for. Think of the times when you have been made to feel ashamed in your life by something truly shameful you had said or done. Were any of those instances by someone who you believed despised you, or did not respect you or your views in any way? You can only shame someone who holds you and your opinion in some degree of esteem and you hold in some degree of esteem in return. Otherwise you are just spitting in their face and doing nothing productive.

If you think you would be swayed by such rhetoric of being attacked in your deepest integrity and love of your country, then by all means, continue to use it. Otherwise, you are simply engaging in onanism. Far be it from me to interrupt.

Your post is very eloquent, but what I think you are missing is that there are some good and decent people that will be voting for Trump because they are at a point now where they are rationalizing actions on his part that just a few years ago they could have never imagined themselves rationalizing and a lot of those good and decent people will one day be ashamed of doing so. Not all of them, some will rationalize it to the day they die as a coping mechanism, but some will feel shame for it.

One has to remember that even George Wallace eventually became ashamed of what he did. The late Robert Byrd, a former klansman, became ashamed of what he did and that former klansman endorsed the candidacy of our first black president. I don't know all the history of those women that spit on the black students walking into Little Rock Central, but I would imagine that some of them became ashamed of themselves later in life too. Of course, they didn't do this on their own, they didn't grow to feel shame for what they did completely on their own. They grew to become ashamed of their actions because society shamed those actions. (btw, this is why I don't like the extremes of "cancel culture" as it assumes that no one makes mistakes or has the capacity to change)

Trust me, history will not be kind to those that supported and enabled this president. History and society will shame them and some of the people that vote for Trump this November will live to be ashamed of their vote.

I have been on this forum for over 15 years. My name on here is Southern Democrat because when I joined, I was a moderate Democrat from the South. I am not someone that votes for nothing but Democrats though. I voted for the first time in 1996 and there has not been a single election I have voted in that I did not vote for a Republican candidate, for some office, on the ballot. There has not been an election cycle that I have not contributed to the campaign of a moderate Republican at the state and local level. In fact, at the state level, I vote for moderate Republicans more often than I do Democrats. My point is I am not an extreme partisan. I am statistically more independent in my voting than most people are that call themselves "independent". Hell, I even register as a Republican in some election cycles here so I can vote in the Republican primary here when I want to. I have never questioned anyone's patriotism on here based on their voting before Trump. However, there is nothing normal about Trump. He is unlike any president we have ever had, and frankly, knowing what we know about Trump today, I will shame anyone that votes for this despicable human being, and trust me, society will as well.
 
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Patriots dont burn the american flag.
 
Those of you that are still planning on voting for this man come November need to do some serious soul searching, and frankly, you need to look at the kind of posters on here that agree with you.
You need to get this liberal fantasy out of your head that Trump has lost supporters from 2016.

It is exactly the same race as four years ago.

Biden is currently up by 7.4 points on RCP. On August 9 of 2016, Clinton was up by 7.7 points, and growing.
 
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You need to get this liberal fantasy out of your head that Trump has lost supporters from 2016.

It is exactly the same race as four years ago.

Biden is currently up by 7.4 points on RCP. On August 9 of 2016, Clinton was up by 7.7 points, and growing.

You're ignoring key elements to suit your agenda. By August Clinton had already trailed Trump nationally previously in July. When has Biden ever trailed Trump nationally, yet?

As you continue to go around spreading lies, I will call you out. You continue to lie and spread false information.
 
In that it’s not Trump supporters tearing down statues of George Washington, burning cities, seeking to transform the country into something a little more Marxist or mindlessly supporting endless confinement of her citizens in their homes, **** yeah.

you whine about a statue to the past, while southern democrat laments about corruption of american values and gross incompetence. yep you sure do have your priorities in order.
 
Hmmm...

PATRIOT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Using that definition?

Despite your partisanly deceitful mischaracterizations of those "actions" you attribute to him. :doh

Despite your attempt to demonize anyone who disagrees with you. :naughty

Yes, I believe I can credibly call myself one and still support the current President. :coffeepap:

I believe that too. But I'd add the adjective "misguided" if you think Trump is actually making america great again. let alone competent to lead the nation. He can't even get his own party to agree in the middle of a national crisis. His iron control of the party indicates what a clustermuck he's made of it. Meanwhile he golfs.

Belief is one thing. Facts in trumpland it seems entirely another.
 
Trump will win again.People are still sick of the liberals and their failed policies and sick life styles.
 

The answer is: Hell no.

What Americans often call "patriotism" is jingoism, and they are not the same things. Jingoism is a matter of personal expression, such as flag-waving, fireworks-shootin', and yelling "I LOVE AMERICA!!"

Patriotism is not a feeling but a set of actions. Patriotism drives someone to make their country a better place for themselves and others. Eisenhower was a patriot. So was FDR. Patriots don't have to be presidents: one could argue that MLK was one of the most patriotic Americans of all time.

Jingoists and patriots form a Venn diagram whose overlap gets smaller by the year.

Fantastic OP. :thumbs: I hated having to cut it to get my post in!
 
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