• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Poll: Should BLM Be Stopped Before They Start A Full-Blown Race War?

Should BLM be stopped before they start a full-blown race war?


  • Total voters
    55
Eugenics is debunked trash.
 
I am not a libertarian, so I rarely agree with CATO Institute conclusions. Nevertheless, I believe that the organization has the integrity to make accurate factual assertions. It is important to distinguish between facts and opinions.

You dont quite know what you are do you? The graph was plotted by CATO. But thats ok and a video accuratly detailing the problem with murray’s work is out of bounds?
 
RACE, INTELLIGENCE, AND THE BRAIN: THE ERRORS AND OMISSIONS OF THE REVISED
EDITION OF S. J. GOULD'S THE MISMEASURE OF MAN

By J. Philippe Rushton

Department of Psychology
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario N6A 5C2

Gould withholds from his readers that The Bell Curve is mainly an empirical work about the causes of social stratification and that it reached its conclusions only after fully analyzing a 12-year longitudinal study of 12,486 youths (3,022 of whom were African American) which showed that most 17-year-olds with high IQs (Blacks as well as Whites) went on to occupational success by their late 20s and early 30s whereas many of those with low IQs (both Black and White) went on to welfare dependency. The average IQ for African Americans was found to be lower than those for Latino, White, Asian, and Jewish Americans (85, 89, 103, 106, and 115, respectively, pp. 273-278). Failure to mention these data fosters the false belief that IQ tests are not predictive and are biased in favor of North Europeans.
Article...

The IQ gap between blacks and whites may be greater than 115. Here is further confirmation of the race gap.

View attachment 67290056

What Rushton is accusing Gould of is strawmanning though Gould’s work is just one piece of the overall critique and he has not disproven Gould’s claim, just a mere accusation of strawmanning. You are still demonstrating you dont know how to establish heritability. Why 1980-1990 specifically? What does that have to do with establishing heritability as is Murray’s main point? That blacks are just genetically inferior?
 
Last edited:
Here is the website again.

Affirmative action - Wikipedia

Please quote word for word where it says that affirmative action in the United States does not require lowering standards for blacks.

In the United Kingdom, hiring someone simply because of their protected group status, without regard to their performance, is illegal.[7][8][9] However, the law in the United Kingdom does allow for membership in a protected and disadvantaged group to be considered in hiring and promotion when the group is under-represented in a given area and if the candidates are of equal merit. The controlling logic is that the person must not be chosen simply because of their group membership, but rather that the relevant authorities are allowed to use disadvantaged group status as a "tie-breaker" between two candidates of otherwise equal merit.[10] This is functionally the same as the practice known as "affirmative action" in the United States.

I guess not being an ashkenazi jew must have predisposed you to not being able to read.
 
As for systemic racism, we got sentencing disparities for the same crime, longer sentencing for the same crime, more likely to be wrongly accused, the karen phenomena, etc.

All in all race realism is just a euphemism for racism.
 
I doubt much has changed since this was true:

=========================
2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================



SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: The ACT - Solutions for College and Career Readiness | ACT

Quote from attached SAT/ACT article:

"Readiness for college science and math coursework was particularly low among
African American students. Only 5 percent of African American test-takers scored
at or above the college-readiness benchmark for college biology, and just 10
percent attained the readiness benchmark for college algebra. Ferguson said
Black students were less likely than others to take tough, college-prep courses
and "often don't receive the information and guidance they need to properly plan
for college."

For overview and more info, go to:
FindArticles.com | CBSi
SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

If you can document recent improvements by blacks, please do so.
This is really weird, you are not presenting data on a change over time (which is the point), you are looking at a single year.

Flynn.jpg
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/20060619_iq.pdf

I have a feeling that citing Rushton as a source is forthcoming.
 
Eugenics is debunked trash.

Apparently a lot of people think never again only included the holocaust. Debunking eugenics is part of that pledge. Eugenics leads invariably to genocide.
 
How are there so many people who are left of center supporting the large gatherings while at the same time screaming about schools reopening? If these protests were stopped the numbers would go way down and we could reopen the schools. We could reopening a large part of the economy.

At some point you have to admit you were wrong about the protests. You can't be pro lock down and pro protest at the same time.
 
This is really weird, you are not presenting data on a change over time (which is the point), you are looking at a single year.

View attachment 67290063
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/20060619_iq.pdf

I have a feeling that citing Rushton as a source is forthcoming.

Evidently doubting is enough for him. I tried to explain he does not know how to determine heritability nor what heritability actually means but he just keeps showing charts that dont actually determine what he thinks they do.
 
How are there so many people who are left of center supporting the large gatherings while at the same time screaming about schools reopening? If these protests were stopped the numbers would go way down and we could reopen the schools. We could reopening a large part of the economy.

At some point you have to admit you were wrong about the protests. You can't be pro lock down and pro protest at the same time.

Outside while wearing masks and social distancing. You were shown why this is the case many times.
 
You didnt post the source of that information. To be fair i should have been more specific to different areas of application but the definition does not imply what you say.

In the United Kingdom, hiring someone simply because of their protected group status, without regard to their performance, is illegal.[7][8][9] However, the law in the United Kingdom does allow for membership in a protected and disadvantaged group to be considered in hiring and promotion when the group is under-represented in a given area and if the candidates are of equal merit. The controlling logic is that the person must not be chosen simply because of their group membership, but rather that the relevant authorities are allowed to use disadvantaged group status as a "tie-breaker" between two candidates of otherwise equal merit.[10] This is functionally the same as the practice known as "affirmative action" in the United States.

I referred to this part, the tie breaker part.

Good to know. The tie-breaker (in the U.K.) goes to the person who is disadvantaged (whatever that means).
And I don't believe it is the same in the U.S.
What I think is that schools and companies will give the nod to a person of color for admission or a job if it is a person of color. You never know when Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are going to show up and demand that an organization favor people of color or experience unforeseen consequences - like I did in the 60s with the Black Students Union at SF State.
 
Good to know. The tie-breaker (in the U.K.) goes to the person who is disadvantaged (whatever that means).
And I don't believe it is the same in the U.S.
What I think is that schools and companies will give the nod to a person of color for admission or a job if it is a person of color. You never know when Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are going to show up and demand that an organization favor people of color or experience unforeseen consequences - like I did in the 60s with the Black Students Union at SF State.

This is something i wont dismiss out of hand because im not an expert regarding these cases. We can have productive conversations about this.
 
So let's look at the poll this morning with this link's breakdown of liberal, moderate, and conservative in mind: [URL="https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx"]https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx[/URL].

According to the link for late 2019 posted in January, 2020 reflecting adults, 35% of the country identifies as conservative, 35% of the country identifies as middle of the road moderate, and 26% of the country identifies as liberal. 4% don't identify as any of the three.

I speculate the breakdown reflects age, as younger people tend more to be liberal, whereas once they hit their thirties in the work force they mellow out moderately, and by the time they're in their fifties they've become more conservative where they remain the rest of their life. There are, of course, exceptions, but this is a pretty good rule of thumb.

Today our poll here has liberals saying 22-1 that BLM should just keep bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets.

Middle of the road moderates are saying 5-3 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

Conservatives are saying 14-2 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

So if we here are any indicator of the country at large ..

.. 95.65 % of liberals here favor BLM. Since liberals are 26% of the country, that's 26 times .9565 = 24.869% of the country favors BLM bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering. (Yep .. boggles the mind!)

62.5% of moderates here favor shutting BLM down. Since moderates are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .625 = 21.875% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

87.5% of conservatives here favor shutting BLM down. Since conservatives are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .875 = 30.625% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

This means that 1.131 percent of liberals here want to shut BLM down, 13.125% of moderates support BLM, and 4.375% of conservatives support BLM.

So the percentage of Americans that support BLM: 24.869% plus 13.125% plus 4.375% = 42.369%

And the percentage of Americans opposed to BLM: 21.875% plus 30.625% plus 1.131% = 53.631%

Leaving 4% unaccounted for.

Thus, clearly the majority of America is opposed to BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering.

And the vast majority of BLM's support comes from just one ideology: liberals.

Maybe that's why Biden has postponed his decision on picking a Black woman for VP, as all three founders of BLM are Black women .. who are Marxist! .. and the percentages here show that won't give Biden any advantage, and may just put him at a disadvantage! :shock:

And indeed, according to this link, 70% of Americans say BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder and it's "cancel culture" in our universities has NOT improved race relations, and more people say BLM has actually harmed race relations than otherwise: Black Lives Matter Gallup Poll: 70 Percent of Americans Say Movement Has Not Helped Race Relations | National Review. :shock:

And now that BLM has showcased it's Marxist violence on TV for two months, 57% have a negative view of them, which comes close to matching our poll here at Debate Politics: Poll: 57 percent have negative view of Black Lives Matter movement | TheHill. Likely only BLM cultist-minded liberals are in lock-step delusional support of BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder. :roll:

Clearly, "support" for BLM is fading .. and I can't help but wonder if Biden in considering the four Black women as VP candidates is now thinking "Uh-oh!"

:cool:

BLM will consistently use terrorist tactics to get their way with city governments and police departments.
After all, who wants to see another city downtown area burned and looted?
 
Outside while wearing masks and social distancing. You were shown why this is the case many times.

There is very little social distancing.Even Dr. Fauci admits people shouldn't be in large gatherings period.
 
There is very little social distancing. Dr. Fauci admits people shouldn't be in large gatherings.

Without masks and social distancing.
 
How are there so many people who are left of center supporting the large gatherings while at the same time screaming about schools reopening? If these protests were stopped the numbers would go way down and we could reopen the schools. We could reopening a large part of the economy.

At some point you have to admit you were wrong about the protests. You can't be pro lock down and pro protest at the same time.
Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
 
I doubt much has changed since this was true:

=========================
2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================



SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: The ACT - Solutions for College and Career Readiness | ACT

Quote from attached SAT/ACT article:

"Readiness for college science and math coursework was particularly low among
African American students. Only 5 percent of African American test-takers scored
at or above the college-readiness benchmark for college biology, and just 10
percent attained the readiness benchmark for college algebra. Ferguson said
Black students were less likely than others to take tough, college-prep courses
and "often don't receive the information and guidance they need to properly plan
for college."

For overview and more info, go to:
FindArticles.com | CBSi
SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

If you can document recent improvements by blacks, please do so.

After looking at the Asian SAT scores and the Asian ACT composite scores, I am suddenly feeling disadvantaged.
Like I feel I need to try harder. Like I feel I should have been more serious in high school and college.
Why can't all children have parents like Asian parents who are dedicated to a child's education to the point where they spend their time paying attention to the child's studies; helping with homework; making sure they take school seriously every dat; getting tutors where necessary; living in the right school districts; and planning for the child's higher level education?
And wouldn't it be wonderful if children had two-parent families where the father and mother didn't come to the conclusion there could be more welfare money coming into the house if a father were not around?
Oh, I'm sorry. Is that being racist?
 
After looking at the Asian SAT scores and the Asian ACT composite scores, I am suddenly feeling disadvantaged.
Like I feel I need to try harder. Like I feel I should have been more serious in high school and college.
I agree, you probably should have tried/studied harder, you might have then been able to recognize you are making an argument about environment.
Why can't all children have parents like Asian parents who are dedicated to a child's education to the point where they spend their time paying attention to the child's studies; helping with homework; making sure they take school seriously every dat; getting tutors where necessary; living in the right school districts; and planning for the child's higher level education?
And wouldn't it be wonderful if children had two-parent families where the father and mother didn't come to the conclusion there could be more welfare money coming into the house if a father were not around?
Oh, I'm sorry. Is that being racist?
It is as if systemic racism doesn't exist. Redlining never existed. Blacks are not killed by police at 300% the rate of whites. Apparently, Asians were enslaved in the US since its inception and have been able to overcome some same level of barriers.

I think a person could attribute this level of ignoring to racism.
 
What Rushton is accusing Gould of is strawmanning though Gould’s work is just one piece of the overall critique and he has not disproven Gould’s claim, just a mere accusation of strawmanning. You are still demonstrating you dont know how to establish heritability. Why 1980-1990 specifically? What does that have to do with establishing heritability as is Murray’s main point? That blacks are just genetically inferior?

The New York Times, By Nicholas Wade, June 13, 2011

In a 1981 book, The Mismeasure of Man, the paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould asserted that Morton, believing that brain size was a measure of intelligence, had subconsciously manipulated the brain volumes of European, Asian and African skulls to favor his bias that Europeans had larger brains and Africans smaller ones.

But now physical anthropologists at the University of Pennsylvania, which owns Morton’s collection, have remeasured the skulls, and in an article that does little to burnish Dr. Gould’s reputation as a scholar, they conclude that almost every detail of his analysis is wrong...

But the Penn team finds Morton’s results were neither fudged nor influenced by his convictions. They identified and remeasured half of the skulls used in his reports, finding that in only 2 percent of cases did Morton’s measurements differ significantly from their own. These errors either were random or gave a larger than accurate volume to African skulls, the reverse of the bias that Dr. Gould imputed to Morton...

Ralph L. Holloway, an expert on human evolution at Columbia and a co-author of the new study, was less willing to give Dr. Gould benefit of the doubt.

“I just didn’t trust Gould,” he said. “I had the feeling that his ideological stance was supreme. When the 1996 version of ‘The Mismeasure of Man’ came and he never even bothered to mention Michael’s study, I just felt he was a charlatan.”

Study Debunks Stephen Jay Gould’s Claim of Racism on Morton Skulls - The New York Times
 
You are still demonstrating you dont know how to establish heritability. Why 1980-1990 specifically? What does that have to do with establishing heritability as is Murray’s main point? That blacks are just genetically inferior?

Race Differences In Average
IQ Are Mostly Genetic,
Not Cultural
Medical Research News
7-25-7

A 60-page review of the scientific evidence, some based on state-of-the-art magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of brain size, has concluded that race differences in average IQ are largely genetic.

The lead article in the June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy and Law, a journal of the American Psychological Association, examined 10 categories of research evidence from around the world to contrast "a hereditarian model (50% genetic-50% cultural) and a culture-only model (0% genetic-100% cultural)."...

5. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89...

7. IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Parents pass on only some exceptional genes to offspring so parents with very high IQs tend to have more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move to different averages--Blacks toward 85 and Whites to 100.

Race Differences In IQ Mostly Genetic, Not Cultural
 
Don't use me to excuse your racism.

Currently a racist is anyone who criticizes blacks. The more accurate the criticism, the graver the offense. When accused of racism truth is no defense. It is evidence for the prosecution.
 
Currently a racist is anyone who criticizes blacks. The more accurate the criticism, the graver the offense. When accused of racism truth is no defense. It is evidence for the prosecution.

The Kafka trap. Extremely flawed, yet effective if you are mendacious enough to embrace it.
 
Bring us some fresh news. This was June 24th which is like a year ago in C19 time.
No, I don't need to spoon feed you, and as a matter of fact, it is you who needs to support your own argument.
 
Back
Top Bottom