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Denying cops with guns onto your property

Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

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Bodi

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
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Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
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A homeowner can deny a police officer entry onto their property for any reason, unless the officer has a warrant or exigent circumstances exist, in which case the officer may force entry.
 
AmNat said:
A homeowner can deny a police officer entry onto their property for any reason, unless the officer has a warrant or exigent circumstances exist, in which case the officer may force entry.
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That is actually correct and might make my question irrelevant. What if a person calls the cops for a problem and the cops show up knocking on the door and they force entry for some reason and then the homeowner says 'get out'.??
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is actually correct and might make my question irrelevant. What if a person calls the cops for a problem and the cops show up knocking on the door and they force entry for some reason and then the homeowner says 'get out'.??
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He is either going to take a beating, get the dog sic on him or get shot. Once they get going they accept no challenge to their authority. Remember they lie. They will find an excuse to be there.

You might win later in court but by then it might be too late.

Best to comply with their directions. Best to not call the police for help.

They are not going to take off their guns.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
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Don't worry about it. With the defunding going on, police will not be responding to such calls. But if you don't want a cop to carry their gun, don't call one.
 
I know of a girl who told her brother to "Get out!" when he entered her room but that's different.

 
While the "new" vision of the police may have response teams that are unarmed for some calls, others who are armed wear the firearm as part of the uniform. I vote no, as a general rule you cannot deny them access.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
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No, their guns are safer with them. Any police stop can lead to danger to the officers as many houses have armed inhabitants. So no, a cop must always have his gun safely with him. In the car it can be stolen and used to threaten/shoot/kill the officer.

Personally I am happy we have very strict gun laws but an officer must always remain armed/with his gun.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is actually correct and might make my question irrelevant. What if a person calls the cops for a problem and the cops show up knocking on the door and they force entry for some reason and then the homeowner says 'get out'.??
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I don't see why how it should happen isn't just common sense. If the police are there for a legitimate reason then they can remain until they've fulfilled that reason - if they have a warrant, until they've fulfilled whatever it is for and if it's due to exigent circumstances, until the problem has been resolved or they've satisfied themselves is is no problem. Unless it's something really serious or imminent, I'd expect officers to strike a reasonable balance between doing their job and satisfying the home owner.

I actually believe this will generally happen in many places and much of the time, that's why it's news those times it doesn't.
 
I once told a cop to "get the **** out of my house." He handcuffed me and loaded me into the squad car. My friend said: "You can't arrest him!"

<singing> "We're in the jailhouse now."
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
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No cop should ever go into an unknown scenario unarmed. in your example does the neighbor know that the extremely loud music is covering the noise of the wife next door getting violently raped? does the cop?

Cops are paid to wear guns. Unfortunately they are not all competent enough for that responsibility.
 
d0gbreath said:
I once told a cop to "get the **** out of my house." He handcuffed me and loaded me into the squad car. My friend said: "You can't arrest him!"
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Did you get arrested?
 
Jonsa said:
No cop should ever go into an unknown scenario unarmed. in your example does the neighbor know that the extremely loud music is covering the noise of the wife next door getting violently raped? does the cop?

Cops are paid to wear guns. Unfortunately they are not all competent enough for that responsibility.
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Cops are paid to enforce the law.... not to be armed. Since the vast majority of incidents do not involve the need for a fire arm then there is no need for them to have their fire arms with them. Correct?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Cops are paid to enforce the law.... not to be armed. Since the vast majority of incidents do not involve the need for a fire arm then there is no need for them to have their fire arms with them. Correct?
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Incorrect in a land where the populace is in possession of more guns than there are people.
 
Jonsa said:
Incorrect in a land where the populace is in possession of more guns than there are people.
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The number of guns is literally irrelevant because it is the number of incidents that require armed police that is the issue. That number is very low. Police carry guns increases the chances that the police will use their gun and as we can clearly see there are far to many incidents that the cop shoots a person or escalates the situation into a violent one when there was no need to do so.
 
AmNat said:
A homeowner can deny a police officer entry onto their property for any reason, unless the officer has a warrant or exigent circumstances exist, in which case the officer may force entry.
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Lots of loopholes to this, if they see something that gives them cause they can enter.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The number of guns is literally irrelevant because it is the number of incidents that require armed police that is the issue. That number is very low. Police carry guns increases the chances that the police will use their gun and as we can clearly see there are far to many incidents that the cop shoots a person or escalates the situation into a violent one when there was no need to do so.
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No, the number of guns and the police services lack of knowing who has them makes the fact the country is awash in guns relevant to the way they approach their jobs.

I totally agree that police carrying guns increases the incident rates of them using them. I agree there are far too many incidents, but taking the guns away from cops will only result in more dead cops. Better training of cops and licensing with periodic recertifications, would go a long way. Anyone that carries a gun for law enforcement or commercial security should have to have to go thru a far more rigorous training program to entitle them to preform that job.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can a business or home OR should a business or home be allowed to deny cops from carrying guns onto their property when there is no need or there is no situation that requires cops to be carrying.

Scenario. Cops show up for a noise complaint against a neighbor. No violence. Nothing but a noise complaint. Can the homeowner refuse the cop entry onto their property until they take off their gun?

Yes or no and why?
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The person can deny cops entry - period - if they do not have a warrant. However, if not fenced the owner would have to order the police off the property.
 
Jonsa said:
No, the number of guns and the police services lack of knowing who has them makes the fact the country is awash in guns relevant to the way they approach their jobs.

I totally agree that police carrying guns increases the incident rates of them using them. I agree there are far too many incidents, but taking the guns away from cops will only result in more dead cops. Better training of cops and licensing with periodic recertifications, would go a long way. Anyone that carries a gun for law enforcement or commercial security should have to have to go thru a far more rigorous training program to entitle them to preform that job.
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What? Police funding should be cut so that funding for training programs is reduced or eliminated. Aren't you keeping up with BLM?

Yes, you are correct that far MORE needs to be spent on police for training and salaries to attract better applicants and have better training. You can't pay cops thousands of dollars less (up to $15,000 less) than a WalMart assistant manager and hope for top applicants. It is unlikely that HIV or covid-19 is going to be spit into your eyes or bitten into your arm as a W-M assistant manager - and unlikely you will be prosecuted for murder.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
That is actually correct and might make my question irrelevant. What if a person calls the cops for a problem and the cops show up knocking on the door and they force entry for some reason and then the homeowner says 'get out'.??
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That is circumstantial. There are times of potential imminent harm/danger where police can break in without a warrant.

I recall an ex fire fighter telling me that if police wanted to IMMEDIATELY get into a place for which a warrant likely required and no-time to get it, the fire department would go along with the police. If any of the firefighters said "I smell gas" or "I smell smoke" - the fire fighters can kick/ax in the door with the police along for their protect and to assist in the perceived emergency. The fire department NEVER needs a warrant.

"Where there is the will, there is the way."

:lol:
 
joko104 said:
What? Police funding should be cut so that funding for training programs are reduced or eliminated. Aren't you keeping up with BLM?
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I am all for cutting funding for some police forces and redirected those funds into additional community mental health/social services, and retasking the police to deal with crime and its prevention and increased training. they shouldnt have to be first responders for mental health problems and the myriad of non criminal calls. Redirect some funds to beef up civic ordinance enforcement.

Its obvious you aren't keeping up with BLM if you think there isn't an actually entire range of proposals beyond "defund the police". OTOH, I realize how difficult it is for many americans who rely on bumperstickers to tell them what to think, to comprehend this one is simply the header of a rather non radical, innovative and broad community based solution proposals.

Yet another thing that is way too much for trumpsters to read.
 
Jonsa said:
No, the number of guns and the police services lack of knowing who has them makes the fact the country is awash in guns relevant to the way they approach their jobs.
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That is like saying that everybody needs bear pepper spray because out of the thousands of times that people interact with bears a few times the bears are aggressive or attack... or everybody needs four wheel drive because out of the tons of times that people drive their vehicle there is ice, snow, sand, mud, etc. That is obviously pretty silly.

I totally agree that police carrying guns increases the incident rates of them using them. I agree there are far too many incidents, but taking the guns away from cops will only result in more dead cops.
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I never said disarm cops completely. Cops here are unarmed but carry fire arms in their trunks in case they pull up to a situation where they might need one. Lack of armed police reduces hostility and promotes communication and non-violent resolution.

Better training of cops and licensing with periodic recertifications, would go a long way. Anyone that carries a gun for law enforcement or commercial security should have to have to go thru a far more rigorous training program to entitle them to preform that job.
Click to expand...

I am glad that we can agree on the overall issue for accountability and responsibility...
 
joko104 said:
That is circumstantial. There are times of potential imminent harm/danger where police can break in without a warrant.

I recall an ex fire fighter telling me that if police wanted to IMMEDIATELY get into a place for which a warrant likely required and no-time to get it, the fire department would go along with the police. If any of the firefighters said "I smell gas" or "I smell smoke" - the fire fighters can kick/ax in the door with the police along for their protect and to assist in the perceived emergency. The fire department NEVER needs a warrant.

"Where there is the will, there is the way."

:lol:
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That is known as exigent circumstances and the police need to be able to prove the circumstances after they do it or they can face consequences.
 
Screw em.
 
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