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A right to NOT join a union?

Do you have a right to NOT join a union


  • Total voters
    61
That's the whole point then D/D? :roll: to "SUPPORT" the Extorting Corrupt Unions, as long as they "give" you a cut?:lol:

Such Character.:doh


Extorting corrupt unions? My my you are not the realist you seem to think you are. How much do you pay for North Face Jackets? Nike? Rebook? I get em for 20 bucks a pair. We buy them from vendors that come to the ship so we are probably being ripped off by Chinese standards. NF gortex for 30 bucks. What do you pay? I get them in China. Where they sent all the textile jobs. Are they passing any of the savings on to you the American consumer? They do not have the big taxes, They do not have to pay decent wages with benifiets, No EPA or OSHA. They ship in bulk 40 foot conatiners at a about 2,400 US per container. Are they passing the savings on to the American consumer???

Moe
 
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That's the whole point then D/D? :roll: to "SUPPORT" the Extorting Corrupt Unions, as long as they "give" you a cut?:lol:

Such Character.:doh

Of course like they do in Sweden. 78% unionization and a higher standard of living than the US.

All those Swedes are gittin their "cut"....LOL

Like this poor Swedish union stooge in the back row.
Does he even know his socialist policies have made is country a hell hole? Poor guy..... I bet he's just craving to move to Red State.



http://euro2008girls.com/pics/swedish_football_girls.jpg
 
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Besides, you make the invalid assumption that correlation implies causality.


Welcome to real world pal. Do you think we have test countries we can perform scientific tests on? A time machine to go back and change a policy to see how it effects the result???....LOL

The fact of the matter is, in the political realm all we have is correlation.

I wish I had a dime for evey time some post grad student uttered that silly line "correlation does not equal causation!"...thinking how clever he is trying to shut down an argument..LOL

I'm about to go pick up my kids at school. I sure hope my car is in the garage where I parked it? I mean how could I "KNOW" that.???The fact that I left my car in the garage did not cause my car to be there....LOL
 
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I don't think that unions should ever be concerned with the survival of a business. The point of the union is to defend the workers, not to make compromises that benefit the bosses at the expense of the workers.

So the unions defend the workers right out of their jobs and that's fine with you? If you make absurd demands, the owner says the hell with it and everyone is now unemployed. Yeah, that sounds like a great job by the union and I'm sure those workers will all be proud that they've been so strongly defended as they pick up their unemployment checks. :roll:
 
Cephus said:
So the unions defend the workers right out of their jobs and that's fine with you?

No, the unions defend the workers against losing their jobs...

If you make absurd demands, the owner says the hell with it and everyone is now unemployed.

Or the workers can strike and win their demands.
 
So the unions defend the workers right out of their jobs and that's fine with you? If you make absurd demands, the owner says the hell with it and everyone is now unemployed. Yeah, that sounds like a great job by the union and I'm sure those workers will all be proud that they've been so strongly defended as they pick up their unemployment checks. :roll:


The union officials only negotiate the contracts. Then they come back to the rank and file and tell them what has been done. They recommend if a contract should be accepted or rejected but the final decision is by majority vote of the rank and file members. So if they lose their jobs it is because they voted to take the risk.

Moe
 
No, the unions defend the workers against losing their jobs...



Or the workers can strike and win their demands.

And maybe those demands are so outrageous that the company goes out of business, and then the workers lose not only the demands that they've won, but their jobs.

What part of this is so hard for you to understand?
 
And maybe those demands are so outrageous that the company goes out of business, and then the workers lose not only the demands that they've won, but their jobs.

What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

There ARE those who argue that a union should have a say in whether or not a company goes out of business. Fortunately, that view has never prevailed.
 
Extorting corrupt unions? My my you are not the realist you seem to think you are. How much do you pay for North Face Jackets? Nike? Rebook? I get em for 20 bucks a pair. We buy them from vendors that come to the ship so we are probably being ripped off by Chinese standards. NF gortex for 30 bucks. What do you pay? I get them in China. Where they sent all the textile jobs. Are they passing any of the savings on to you the American consumer? They do not have the big taxes, They do not have to pay decent wages with benifiets, No EPA or OSHA. They ship in bulk 40 foot conatiners at a about 2,400 US per container. Are they passing the savings on to the American consumer???

Moe

Your personal taste in clothing has nothing to do with Corrupt Unions Moe. Then you dredge up two of the most useless and inept Fed Departments,,,for what reason?:roll:

I don't CARE about what the Chinese do in their Country. I DO care about mine, and what the Unions have done to the "Rust Belt"...:(

Take care.
 
Of course like they do in Sweden. 78% unionization and a higher standard of living than the US.

All those Swedes are gittin their "cut"....LOL

Like this poor Swedish union stooge in the back row.
Does he even know his socialist policies have made is country a hell hole? Poor guy..... I bet he's just craving to move to Red State.



http://euro2008girls.com/pics/swedish_football_girls.jpg

Yeah,,,I'll bet he would. With a TAX Rate of over 80% going to the Govt.:roll: You go ahead and and let the Unions "pick your pocket" D/D...:lol:
 
Welcome to real world pal. Do you think we have test countries we can perform scientific tests on? A time machine to go back and change a policy to see how it effects the result???....LOL

The fact of the matter is, in the political realm all we have is correlation.

Uhh . . .

In the "real world," even if it's "all we have," correlation still does not imply causality.

"Pal."

:roll:

Good God. And your side has the sheer audacity to arrogate unto itself a monopoly on "science" and "reason." The reason "post-grad students" say it is because it's correct.

So, waaaaah. You lose. Two plus two will still equal four no matter how much you whine about it.
 
Dav said:
And maybe those demands are so outrageous that the company goes out of business, and then the workers lose not only the demands that they've won, but their jobs.

What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

My point is that this does not happen.

What part of that is so hard for you to understand?
 
Dav said:
It does not happen because Unions make concessions which you hate so much.

Not true. Even when the rank-and-file are successful in pushing through their demands at the protest of the union bureaucrats that want to make such "concessions" businesses do not go under.
 
No, the unions defend the workers against losing their jobs...

By making the company go out of business or deciding it's cheaper to outsource the jobs overseas. Good strategy.

Or the workers can strike and win their demands.

Or the owner can say the hell with it, fire them all and go under. All the demands in the world don't matter if the company no longer exists.
 
Cephus said:
By making the company go out of business or deciding it's cheaper to outsource the jobs overseas. Good strategy.

Unions don't "make the company go out of business," nor do they "make it decide to outsource jobs". That is a choice that the business makes, and it is due more to the fact that the head honchos aren't willing to dip into their seven figure incomes.

But as I have already said before, outsourcing can be prevented if the workers are organized enough to prevent it from happening.

Or the owner can say the hell with it, fire them all and go under. All the demands in the world don't matter if the company no longer exists.

Then the workers can take control of the means of production. :2wave:
 
Then the workers can take control of the means of production. :2wave:

Right, because workers, as a rule, spontaneously do things like that.

Why wait until there's a company? Why not form one themselves?
 
But as I have already said before, outsourcing can be prevented if the workers are organized enough to prevent it from happening.
How, exactly, does labor 'organize' in such a way to prevent outsourcing?
 
Harshaw said:
Then the workers can take control of the means of production.
Right, because workers, as a rule, spontaneously do things like that.

Well they have in the past, although it is uncommon.

Goobieman said:
How, exactly, does labor 'organize' in such a way to prevent outsourcing?

The entire history of the US labour movement is filled with countless examples of workers striking against plant closures and winning.
 
Well they have in the past, although it is uncommon.

Yes. It's uncommon.



The entire history of the US labour movement is filled with countless examples of workers striking against plant closures and winning.

That generally happens in the cases of runaway shops, not the total closure of the business.
 
Harshaw said:
That generally happens in the cases of runaway shops, not the total closure of the business.

Yes, you asked about outsourcing, which is different than "the total closure of the business."
 
Yes, you asked about outsourcing, which is different than "the total closure of the business."

Well, Goobieman did, but you're right, and that was my mistake there. :doh
 
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