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White Leaders?

Should white leaders be speaking up and telling minorities how to protest and stop rioting?

  • Total voters
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Bodhisattva said:
Whaaat? I have no idea what this means? Are you insinuating that I teach Maori natives English and that is feeble or... I have no idea.
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I'm sure a lot of teachers rely on a dictionary as a primary source. But mostly English teachers.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm sure a lot of teachers rely on a dictionary as a primary source. But mostly English teachers.
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The dictionary is not a primary source and all you are doing is creating a huge Red Herring to distract from you error. The argument was that words have meaning and this is beyond dispute. Taking the words and trying to apply new meaning is dishonest and anybody with an advanced degree from a higher learning institution would be ashamed at such a deceptive tactic. I don't want to lose respect for you here so please do the right thing.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The dictionary is not a primary source and all you are doing is creating a huge Red Herring to distract from you error. The argument was that words have meaning and this is beyond dispute. Taking the words and trying to apply new meaning is dishonest and anybody with an advanced degree from a higher learning institution would be ashamed at such a deceptive tactic. I don't want to lose respect for you here so please do the right thing.
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While one could claim in the loosest sense that a riot is a form of protest, that's meaningless in a criminal context. If I steal, is that a protest against high prices? What's not a protest under the platitude you employ in apology of crime?

In the context of a riot, we must differentiate what which is driven by a desire for political change and that which constitutes a crime under the cover of a protest.

Rioters and protesters are two distinct groups of people. Protesters do not become rioters and rioters are not protesters. Rioters are criminal elements of a population employing a convenient rationalization to excuse their crimes. Rioters are gangs with an excuse.

Is gang activity a protest? Because that's what a riot is - gang activity under cover of a protest.

Your equivalence inherently claims the protesters are rioters in its conflation of the terms. That's a problem. It's a problem that only more specific verbiage can solve and thus allow the discussion to move forward.

Fundamentally, your position's flaw is the same as the racists'. You fail to recognize the protesters are not rioters. The simplistic vocabulary you insist on employing entrenches the fundamental flaw in your position.
 
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Minorities want to protest? Great.

Minorities want to riot? Meaning minorities want to destroy property, assault people -- civilians and police or government officials, burn buildings, and do other criminal acts? Then minorities need to be thrown the **** in jail.

White or black, there is no talking with those people.

Tear gas can and baton in hand.

Order will be maintained.
 
ecofarm said:
While one could claim in the loosest sense that a riot is a form of protest, that's meaningless in a criminal context. If I steal, is that a protest against high prices? What's not a protest under the platitude you employ in apology of crime?

In the context of a riot, we must differentiate what which is driven by a desire for political change and that which constitutes a crime under the cover of a protest.

Rioters and protesters are two distinct groups of people. Protesters do not become rioters and rioters are not protesters. Rioters are criminal elements of a population employing a convenient rationalization to excuse their crimes. Rioters are gangs with an excuse.

Is gang activity a protest? Because that's what a riot is - gang activity under cover of a protest.

Your equivalence inherently claims the protesters are rioters in its conflation of the terms. That's a problem. It's a problem that only more specific verbiage can solve and thus allow the discussion to move forward.

Fundamentally, your position's flaw is the same as the racists'. You fail to recognize the protesters are not rioters. The simplistic vocabulary you insist on employing entrenches the fundamental flaw in your position.
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Your fail is that protesters are not rioters but that rioters are protesters...

The fact that you bring up racism as a factor speaks volumes...
 
Bodhisattva said:
The fact that you bring up racism as a factor speaks volumes...
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The subject is rioting. I didn't bring it up as a factor. I brought it up as racists having the same fundamental flaw in their position as you in yours. A failure to differentiate between protesters and rioters.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Forms of protest
Riot, melee, mob violence: Large-scale (50+), use of violence by instigators against persons, property, police, or buildings separately or in combination, lasting several hours.

Protest - Wikipedia
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Is it your belief that those assholes who are engaging in violence, arson and looting actually give a crap about George Floyd's death?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Forms of protest
Riot, melee, mob violence: Large-scale (50+), use of violence by instigators against persons, property, police, or buildings separately or in combination, lasting several hours.

Protest - Wikipedia



Ecofarm ran and hid from this... will you?
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What’s to run from, do you see “in protest” in that definition anywhere? I said it MAY be a rebellion. It definitely ceased being a protest.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Do white civic leaders and celebrities have a roll or even a right to talk down minority violent protesters? I can not imagine Tom Cruise trying to tell black people what they should or should not do about anything... but am I wrong? Should Leo and Charlize Theron be speaking up about the riots? Larry Bird? Any?
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It seems by you raising the question that deep down you don't believe in judging a person by their character. I would suggest that those who are protesting should become LEO's, First Responders, or elected officials. Work to improve the community instead of trashing it.

I personally don't care what some actor or sports figure says. They do have a right to voice their opinion like any one else.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Do white civic leaders and celebrities have a roll or even a right to talk down minority violent protesters? I can not imagine Tom Cruise trying to tell black people what they should or should not do about anything... but am I wrong? Should Leo and Charlize Theron be speaking up about the riots? Larry Bird? Any?
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What has happened is a justified protest that turned into a riot where there has been many shots of folks walking away from shops with beer and TV's. The justifiable portion has now been completely lost.

I look 25-30 miles north of me where I see riots and destruction in Atlanta. Why Atlanta? A black run city, the mayor, the police chief, most local judges, the city council is majority black, the police force is majority black. Yet riots and looting in Atlanta. Is this racial injustice? If so it's blacks against blacks, in Atlanta anyway.

The Atlanta police force had nothing to do with Minneapolis. Neither did the entire city government and justice system of and in Atlanta. But back to the question, should whites speak out? I don't think it would do any good. The King family has spoken out in Atlanta, so too the black mayor and black police chief, it didn't do any good. If the rioters and looters won't listen to them, they sure as heck ain't gonna listen to anyone white.

The sad part about all of this is the racial injustice, the police brutality has now been lost. The new story, black looters and rioters has taken over. I still don't understand why Atlanta? Unless it is perceived regardless of who is in charge, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, that those in power are corrupt and enforce the power of government on the little people.
 
Leaders? No.


Racists trying to make blacks look bad? Yes.


Antifa trying to spread chaos and hate towards the police? Yes.

And there's like a dozen of them.

And there might be a few "tourists" who drove to the city to see what all the fuss was, or to say they were "there".
 
Felis Leo said:
How do you believe a riot should be dealt with, ecofarm?
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A riot is a criminal activity. Looting, burning, assault of police and citizens. How do you deal with a crime? You make arrest and you prosecute the criminal. Appeasement doesn't work for anything, as Europe in WWII. When you allow a situation to get our of control it will only escalate. Weak mayors in democrat run cities have caused an escalation by letting the crowd have its moment and vent their anger.
I'm angry about things but I don't go burn down Target or someones restaurant or the police station. Anyone who thinks that is ok is a fool. That makes Minneapolis' mayor a fool. The people in Minneapolis should be calling for that idiot's immediate recall.
 
Bodhisattva said:
A riot is a form of protest... a protest that has tuned into a violent riot.
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Good god.

If you assassinate a President, it too is a form of protest. But one can see where murder becomes the issue and any sense of arguing that it is protest is tossed out the window.

Protests and riots are two different things. The riot strips the credibility of the protest away. This is why the Civil Rights Marches are known as protests, not riots. Rioting plays into the game that the opposition wants to see protests dissolve into. With this issue specifically, the point of the protests have been lost to the criminal behavior that has become the story.
 
Bodhisattva said:
A riot is a form of protest... a protest that has tuned into a violent riot.
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Protests that have evolved into riots that are being exploited by agitators and outside elements. Like CNN, MSNBC, Antifa and race hustlers like Alvin Sharpton and Jess Jackson even by some politicians. Mostly for political gain.
 
Serenity said:
Is it your belief that those assholes who are engaging in violence, arson and looting actually give a crap about George Floyd's death?
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Maybe five percent of the people out there had George Floyd on their mind. The rest are simply using this as an excuse to break things, steal things and burn things. There is no way I would have let this go past one day. It's obvious which direction this was headed. Unfortunately, this is going to set back their cause significantly.

It's hard not to feel rage towards those causing this horrific damage to property and human life. People are going to see this is a result of black people protesting. I realize it wasn't just black people, but perception is reality. At some point they need to figure out a different way to make change.

How is it there are hundreds of police in the streets at any given time but not one near where the vandalism is taking place? Why aren't the vulnerable businesses being protected?
 
Mongidig said:
I have a feeling that I'm not the only one who thought this "protest" might quickly turn into a "riot". That seems to be what happens in these situations.
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Agree....this situation is a reason for some to go out and do things that has nothing to do with the 'cop' problem. I have a feeling that deep down the people who are rioting could care less about Lloyd, they are just taking advantage of the situation and using Lloyd as an excuse.
Looting and burning is not 'protesting' its anarchy and is, mostly in this case, inflamed by those who have been in their mother's basement too long.
 
antiquity said:
Agree....this situation is a reason for some to go out and do things that has nothing to do with the 'cop' problem. I have a feeling that deep down the people who are rioting could care less about Lloyd, they are just taking advantage of the situation and using Lloyd as an excuse.
Looting and burning is not 'protesting' its anarchy and is, mostly in this case, inflamed by those who have been in their mother's basement too long.
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I'm guessing a higher number of people don't have to get up early the next day for work given the higher unemployment numbers.
 
ModernDiogenes said:
What’s to run from, do you see “in protest” in that definition anywhere? I said it MAY be a rebellion. It definitely ceased being a protest.
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Thousands of people are legitimately protesting still... hence it is still a protest. In this protest many are protesting in different ways and some are rioting.

Serenity said:
Is it your belief that those assholes who are engaging in violence, arson and looting actually give a crap about George Floyd's death?
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Some probably... but not all or even most. Mr. Floyd is not what they are protesting but they are protesting.

ecofarm said:
The subject is rioting. I didn't bring it up as a factor. I brought it up as racists having the same fundamental flaw in their position as you in yours. A failure to differentiate between protesters and rioters.
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All rioters are protesters... Not all protesters are rioters.
 
Perotista said:
What has happened is a justified protest that turned into a riot where there has been many shots of folks walking away from shops with beer and TV's. The justifiable portion has now been completely lost.

I look 25-30 miles north of me where I see riots and destruction in Atlanta. Why Atlanta? A black run city, the mayor, the police chief, most local judges, the city council is majority black, the police force is majority black. Yet riots and looting in Atlanta. Is this racial injustice? If so it's blacks against blacks, in Atlanta anyway.

The Atlanta police force had nothing to do with Minneapolis. Neither did the entire city government and justice system of and in Atlanta. But back to the question, should whites speak out? I don't think it would do any good. The King family has spoken out in Atlanta, so too the black mayor and black police chief, it didn't do any good. If the rioters and looters won't listen to them, they sure as heck ain't gonna listen to anyone white.

The sad part about all of this is the racial injustice, the police brutality has now been lost. The new story, black looters and rioters has taken over. I still don't understand why Atlanta? Unless it is perceived regardless of who is in charge, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, that those in power are corrupt and enforce the power of government on the little people.
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Some new studies are showing that black/minority police shoot and kill as many, if not more, black men than white police officers do.

mike2810 said:
It seems by you raising the question that deep down you don't believe in judging a person by their character. I would suggest that those who are protesting should become LEO's, First Responders, or elected officials. Work to improve the community instead of trashing it.

I personally don't care what some actor or sports figure says. They do have a right to voice their opinion like any one else.
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It is easy to talk smack about what a person does not experience... same goes with teachers as LEO's etc.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Thousands of people are legitimately protesting still... hence it is still a protest. In this protest many are protesting in different ways and some are rioting.



Some probably... but not all or even most. Mr. Floyd is not what they are protesting but they are protesting.



All rioters are protesters... Not all protesters are rioters.
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Bye, Felicia.
 
antiquity said:
Protests that have evolved into riots that are being exploited by agitators and outside elements. Like CNN, MSNBC, Antifa and race hustlers like Alvin Sharpton and Jess Jackson even by some politicians. Mostly for political gain.
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Agreed...

MSgt said:
Good god.

If you assassinate a President, it too is a form of protest. But one can see where murder becomes the issue and any sense of arguing that it is protest is tossed out the window.

Protests and riots are two different things. The riot strips the credibility of the protest away. This is why the Civil Rights Marches are known as protests, not riots. Rioting plays into the game that the opposition wants to see protests dissolve into. With this issue specifically, the point of the protests have been lost to the criminal behavior that has become the story.
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As long as people are out protesting while others are rioting their message will be lost...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Some new studies are showing that black/minority police shoot and kill as many, if not more, black men than white police officers do.



It is easy to talk smack about what a person does not experience... same goes with teachers as LEO's etc.
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So do you disagree that some of those protesting should get involved by becoming LEO's for the community?
 
mike2810 said:
So do you disagree that some of those protesting should get involved by becoming LEO's for the community?
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How does everybody become a LEO?
 
Bodhisattva said:
How does everybody become a LEO?
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what part of "some" confused you.

I find it interesting when someone doesn't answer questions asked, but then expects someone to answer theirs.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
 
ecofarm said:
A riot isn't a protest. It's the result of criminal elements taking advantage of perceived injustice to rationalize a group defense excuse.

Therefore, one cannot address a riot as a protest nor suggest protesting instead. A riot must be addressed as a riot. It must be dealt with. It can't be whiteyed away.
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You nailed it.
 
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