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Would Cameras in nursing homes stop abuse?

dirtpoorchris

dirtpoorchris

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It wouldnt stop it (completely) but it would help catch it a whole lot more when people forget about cameras. The best thing would be random federal checkups and the inspector talking to ANYONE in the facility legally, without a schedule or structure so they could discover stuff the staff couldnt plan around. And emergency buttons the elderly could press for Ultra Help but the staff would eventually learn to work around that and not let them get to the button, or blame them for false ones if they were abusive staff.And maybe random thermal drone captures above the facility just to see if someone is wrestling someone againsnt their will.

When I worked at a retirement home you are lucky to get 1 inspection a year and noone interviews the residennts or holds an open interview night for local complaints to make sure there is nothing criminal. They should have 3 or 4 random isnpectiosn by random inspectors every month who actually go innto every room and talk to people. And cameras to make sure the staff isnt shuffling crime around the inspectors, with life remote feeds for independent sources to watch.

Patient monitorization should ALWAYS be the patients choice, not the facilities.
 
You already posted this once.


The guy is mentally ill. The question is why they put him in a nursing home instead of somewhere more secure.
 
swing_voter said:
You already posted this once.


The guy is mentally ill. The question is why they put him in a nursing home instead of somewhere more secure.
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? Huh? This isn't the news clip you are looking for? *waves hand* This is definitely my first thread post of this video.
 
You would think that the people who own these institutions would definitely want cameras/video in each room, hallway and bathroom. A short list of The numerous reasons are lawsuits, safety, emergencies, abuse and probably much more.
I mean, we're watched, cataloged, evaluated every single day on the street..our internet, phone and god knows what else.
I DO believe that the video in a room (in an institution) should be in each room..etc ONLY if the person/Family approves of it.
 
Yes, it should be required under every state's civil and criminal laws - and the federal government should withhold any aid for housing of elderly in nursing homes until the state has enacted such laws and has an real enforcement and investigation department.

The elderly in nursing homes - particularly those in later stages of dementia - are 100% defenseless. They can't defend themselves. They don't understand what is happening so don't cry out for help. They can not testify against any assailant, who could always calm any injury was self defense because sometimes the elderly with dementia do become not only militant but violent. While some forms of slow dying can be unthinkably painful, dementia is completely insidious. It's cruelly is to first strip away the person's memory, intellect, self identity and personality before it causes the brain to stop operating the organs - slowly.

Caring for the elderly care who are in part are entirely dependent upon the government paying for it are really horrible jobs to have. They pay very little for whatever reason that is. The skit many otherwise standard medical requirements for which 99+% of diagnosis is only done by a nurse, including prescription drugs. Once a week a doctor will sign off that approved of it. For the regular house cleaning and bottom level care staff, dealing with the elderly with dementia and their irrationality, often hateful and accusatory resistance, words and various degrees of physical resistance.

A woman I know who was such a nurse, meaning in charge for her shift, didn't make much more than minimum wage and faced huge liabilities in the event she were to be sued or some prescription violation since the doctor would not back her up, claiming it was all her fault and decision. The mindlessness, wandering, delusional world of wild emotions, irrational thoughts, and being in non-reality is often very resistance and even physically, that she said at night the only thing to do for most was to drug them down or they all would be out wandering around causing great dangers to themselves and others. She quit.

YES, cameras should be REQUIRED and video recorded. I would leave it up to the state and facility to decide if audio recording is allowed. I think it likely shouldn't be. The elderly person and their visitors should be able to have private, confidential conversations unless the police get some kind of order otherwise.
 
dirtpoorchris said:


It wouldnt stop it (completely) but it would help catch it a whole lot more when people forget about cameras. The best thing would be random federal checkups and the inspector talking to ANYONE in the facility legally, without a schedule or structure so they could discover stuff the staff couldnt plan around. And emergency buttons the elderly could press for Ultra Help but the staff would eventually learn to work around that and not let them get to the button, or blame them for false ones if they were abusive staff.And maybe random thermal drone captures above the facility just to see if someone is wrestling someone againsnt their will.

When I worked at a retirement home you are lucky to get 1 inspection a year and noone interviews the residennts or holds an open interview night for local complaints to make sure there is nothing criminal. They should have 3 or 4 random isnpectiosn by random inspectors every month who actually go innto every room and talk to people. And cameras to make sure the staff isnt shuffling crime around the inspectors, with life remote feeds for independent sources to watch.

Patient monitorization should ALWAYS be the patients choice, not the facilities.
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If you worked in a retirement home, then you might recall something called HIPPA regulations. What exactly are you looking for with your suggestion of hidden cameras inside skilled nursing facilities and retirement homes? Are you looking for physical abuse of patients, are you looking for staff negligence? What exactly is the objective of cameras invading private space?

Would you be okay if someone had surveillance on you in your home without your knowledge?

Sorry, I didn't see the video until after I posted my comment. So now I know what you're looking for. Cameras are not legal in private nursing homes.
 
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The cameras should not be hidden, although also secret cameras could be part of the employment agreement. Any resident or legal guardian would have to agree in writing to cameras. Obviously not in bathrooms. Or put the person somewhere else. I don't think audio recording should be allowed - unless the police get a listen-in court order.
 
HumblePi said:
If you worked in a retirement home, then you might recall something called HIPPA regulations. What exactly are you looking for with your suggestion of hidden cameras inside skilled nursing facilities and retirement homes? Are you looking for physical abuse of patients, are you looking for staff negligence? What exactly is the objective of cameras invading private space?

Would you be okay if someone had surveillance on you in your home without your knowledge?

Sorry, I didn't see the video until after I posted my comment. So now I know what you're looking for. Cameras are not legal in private nursing homes.
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You said it. Saves me a bunch of bandwidth.
1- privacy
2- abusers know where the cameras are
Now, if family would set up surveillance without staff knowing, that would be different. Of course residents without family or support are more so a target than those who have someone caring about them.
I think a big problem is our health care system. Fees for retirement homes are huge, yet it seems they never have enough money to hire caring staff. It is a scary dilemma.
 
Lovebug said:
You said it. Saves me a bunch of bandwidth.
1- privacy
2- abusers know where the cameras are
Now, if family would set up surveillance without staff knowing, that would be different. Of course residents without family or support are more so a target than those who have someone caring about them.
I think a big problem is our health care system. Fees for retirement homes are huge, yet it seems they never have enough money to hire caring staff. It is a scary dilemma.
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You have touched on the heart of the problems but it goes deeper. Nursing homes, skilled nursing facilities, assisted living, etc. all have one thing in common they're facilities for people that are either aged, mentally unable to care for themselves at home or chronically ill.

Here's the problem. Regulations vary dramatically from state to state. I happen to live in Connecticut and our state regulations for nursing homes and assisted livings are extremely rigid. Our tough regs came after the mid-sixties when there were some scandals in our facilities concerning abuse or neglect. The State Dept of Health inspects each facility on a regular basis and without warning beforehand.

I am a nurse, but for 10 years I ran a nursing agency, had 4 office locations in the state. We provided temporary nurses and nurse aides for nursing homes primarily on a shift basis. If a home was short a nurse for 11-7 night shift, they called us, we sent a nurse. But in the beginning when we were acquiring clients (nursing homes) I personally went in to do the shift myself, just to get the 'lay of the land' the protocols, procedures, etc. That way I was able to tell my nurse before she went to the place how it worked there. I've worked in no less than 10 different facilities, and reported 'cold' without knowing a thing about any of them. There was a vast difference between those operated by 'corporate' owners and those run by private families. Nevertheless, they were all compliant with our rigid state regulations.

My sister is also a nurse and moved to Florida. She got a job as an administrator for one of the nursing homes there. She was shocked at the differences in the regulations between our state and Florida. She hated it because she was a old school nurse as I was and we always did things 'by the book' and to the letter. Florida wasn't like that at all. Their regulations are lax, their inspections aren't regular and when they happen, many infractions are ignored or overlooked. The quality of care just wasn't up to par. But this is the case across the country. Regulations differ from state to state, some facilities are wonderful with a loving, caring staff. Some are horrible with staff that's there for the buck, not for their love of geriatrics.

As a nurse, I have had only three experiences where I've witnessed and reported either patient abuse or nurse abusing drugs. Yep, one of my head nurses was stealing narcotics. The patient abuse was something I never witnessed, but I listened to the old man who I found crying one day. He was shaking and I asked him what was wrong. And he said that the aide threatened him and was 'rough' with him. The first thing I did was remove the aide. I sent him to work in the dining room moving patients in and out. Then got on the phone with my supervisor and told her what I suspected. The aide was called in to the supervisor's office and fired. He never denied it and left without a fuss.

Here's the bottom line - in my opinion anyway. Training of nurse's aides is paramount to having a staff that's reliable, caring and considerate of their patients. Without supervision of aides, the bad ones get away with things. The next thing is listen to the patients, ask them, 'how was Mary today, did she put your favorite dress on today?' 'How was Peter, did he make sure you got everything you need?' ASK. Then look for any signs from the patients, signs of fear, signs of finger marks on a patient's arm, signs of skin breakdown - that means they aren't being washed or changed properly. There's so many things that a nurse's eyes can see and ear can hear that will certainly catch any type of patient abuse before it goes on any further.

Sorry that was a long post. I got carried away. But patient abuse should never be tolerated in any setting, whether it's a hospital, rehab facility, nursing home or VA hospital -- which by the way, I've witnessed some pretty bad things in our VA hospital.
 
HumblePi said:
You have touched on the heart of the problems but it goes deeper. Nursing homes, skilled nursing facilities, assisted living, etc. all have one thing in common they're facilities for people that are either aged, mentally unable to care for themselves at home or chronically ill.

Here's the problem. Regulations vary dramatically from state to state. I happen to live in Connecticut and our state regulations for nursing homes and assisted livings are extremely rigid. Our tough regs came after the mid-sixties when there were some scandals in our facilities concerning abuse or neglect. The State Dept of Health inspects each facility on a regular basis and without warning beforehand.

I am a nurse, but for 10 years I ran a nursing agency, had 4 office locations in the state. We provided temporary nurses and nurse aides for nursing homes primarily on a shift basis. If a home was short a nurse for 11-7 night shift, they called us, we sent a nurse. But in the beginning when we were acquiring clients (nursing homes) I personally went in to do the shift myself, just to get the 'lay of the land' the protocols, procedures, etc. That way I was able to tell my nurse before she went to the place how it worked there. I've worked in no less than 10 different facilities, and reported 'cold' without knowing a thing about any of them. There was a vast difference between those operated by 'corporate' owners and those run by private families. Nevertheless, they were all compliant with our rigid state regulations.

My sister is also a nurse and moved to Florida. She got a job as an administrator for one of the nursing homes there. She was shocked at the differences in the regulations between our state and Florida. She hated it because she was a old school nurse as I was and we always did things 'by the book' and to the letter. Florida wasn't like that at all. Their regulations are lax, their inspections aren't regular and when they happen, many infractions are ignored or overlooked. The quality of care just wasn't up to par. But this is the case across the country. Regulations differ from state to state, some facilities are wonderful with a loving, caring staff. Some are horrible with staff that's there for the buck, not for their love of geriatrics.

As a nurse, I have had only three experiences where I've witnessed and reported either patient abuse or nurse abusing drugs. Yep, one of my head nurses was stealing narcotics. The patient abuse was something I never witnessed, but I listened to the old man who I found crying one day. He was shaking and I asked him what was wrong. And he said that the aide threatened him and was 'rough' with him. The first thing I did was remove the aide. I sent him to work in the dining room moving patients in and out. Then got on the phone with my supervisor and told her what I suspected. The aide was called in to the supervisor's office and fired. He never denied it and left without a fuss.

Here's the bottom line - in my opinion anyway. Training of nurse's aides is paramount to having a staff that's reliable, caring and considerate of their patients. Without supervision of aides, the bad ones get away with things. The next thing is listen to the patients, ask them, 'how was Mary today, did she put your favorite dress on today?' 'How was Peter, did he make sure you got everything you need?' ASK. Then look for any signs from the patients, signs of fear, signs of finger marks on a patient's arm, signs of skin breakdown - that means they aren't being washed or changed properly. There's so many things that a nurse's eyes can see and ear can hear that will certainly catch any type of patient abuse before it goes on any further.

Sorry that was a long post. I got carried away. But patient abuse should never be tolerated in any setting, whether it's a hospital, rehab facility, nursing home or VA hospital -- which by the way, I've witnessed some pretty bad things in our VA hospital.
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Thank you for a wonderful post, worth reading every word.
I am so passionate about abuse, abuse of those who can't speak for themselves, whether it is the elderly, the disabled, animals. (that is a story for another day though)
I have been "in trouble" for reporting abuse all my adult life. That is something I am willing to sacrifice for. Whether it is an abusive co worker, or a superior who is not up to par, or just plain neglect.
Not sure if you are a believer, but my God is my conscience.
Hugs.
 
Lovebug said:
Thank you for a wonderful post, worth reading every word.
I am so passionate about abuse, abuse of those who can't speak for themselves, whether it is the elderly, the disabled, animals. (that is a story for another day though)
I have been "in trouble" for reporting abuse all my adult life. That is something I am willing to sacrifice for. Whether it is an abusive co worker, or a superior who is not up to par, or just plain neglect.
Not sure if you are a believer, but my God is my conscience.
Hugs.
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I believe that you, more than anyone here, would appreciate this poem written by an old woman in Scotland, a woman in a nursing home.

An Old Lady's Poem, Anonymous
 
My earlier thought was yes, rooms need cameras and a station similar to store security where a person is responsible to watch those videos as they cycle through the rooms. My next thought was the whole "patient" privacy thing. I can promise you if I had a loved one in someplace like that I'd sign a voucher that their room be monitored to avoid this kind of thing. Do I care if maybe their bare ass get's flashed on screen? I'd take it over what is seen in this video.
 
SkyFox76 said:
My earlier thought was yes, rooms need cameras and a station similar to store security where a person is responsible to watch those videos as they cycle through the rooms. My next thought was the whole "patient" privacy thing. I can promise you if I had a loved one in someplace like that I'd sign a voucher that their room be monitored to avoid this kind of thing. Do I care if maybe their bare ass get's flashed on screen? I'd take it over what is seen in this video.
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If your loved one is cognizant, alert and orientated, do you suppose they would mind if their bare asses get flashed on a screen that's going to be seen by strangers? People seem to believe that these geriatric patients are all 'out of it' and have no idea what's going on around them. You couldn't be more wrong. These elderly people are aware of where they are, they're aware of what's going on, they have feelings, they have pride, they aren't animals who just need feeding and changing. People need to become more familiar with the lives of the elderly. They should not become nothing more than 'invisible' people, they are humans with feelings and with a lot of dignity. They've come from better times, a better generation. One that gives respect and expects it back. We can't even remember those times anymore and it's sad.
 
HumblePi said:
If you worked in a retirement home, then you might recall something called HIPPA regulations. What exactly are you looking for with your suggestion of hidden cameras inside skilled nursing facilities and retirement homes? Are you looking for physical abuse of patients, are you looking for staff negligence? What exactly is the objective of cameras invading private space?

Would you be okay if someone had surveillance on you in your home without your knowledge?

Sorry, I didn't see the video until after I posted my comment. So now I know what you're looking for. Cameras are not legal in private nursing homes.
Click to expand...

They let me into a retirement home when I was 18 with zero credentials and I was a dish washer and had to help lift the elderly people up because I was a big strong man, getting paid minimum wage to do all this.

But it should also be established as a norm to be recorded for nursing homes unless the tennant says no.
 
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SkyFox76 said:
My earlier thought was yes, rooms need cameras and a station similar to store security where a person is responsible to watch those videos as they cycle through the rooms. My next thought was the whole "patient" privacy thing. I can promise you if I had a loved one in someplace like that I'd sign a voucher that their room be monitored to avoid this kind of thing. Do I care if maybe their bare ass get's flashed on screen? I'd take it over what is seen in this video.
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It should absolutely be up to the patient. Also any kid in school should be able to have a body cam or public servailence device.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
They let me into a retirement home when I was 18 with zero credentials and I was a dish washer and had to help lift the elderly people up because I was a big strong man, getting paid minimum wage to do all this.
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You think that's bad? I started working as a nurse's aide with zero training, this was before State credentialing of nursing assistants was mandated and they needed to be certified. My training was on the job. Imagine never doing work such as being responsible for changing, feeding, dressing, shaving, transporting, lifting, doing vital signs, reporting problems, etc. all fell on your head --- without any training except for a few days of following around with another aide that worked there?

I remember the first 'gentleman' I had to dress. I got his underwear and they were a one-piece cotton garment, similar to the illustration below, the guy on the left.

a076bc645d7c27895b4d16e924618062.jpg

The only thing I couldn't figure out was how to put it on him. I thought I did it right but when he stood up I knew I had it on backwards. There was a long split that was supposed to go at the back, on the rear-end so the men could leave on that one piece suit and still sit down on the toilet to do their business. Hey, how would I know what underwear from the 1930's looked like? I also put this poor guy's dentures in his mouth upside down so the upper plate went across his tongue. I figured that one out pretty quickly when he started talking funny.

Oh some good experiences, for sure. Nevertheless, we survived all those days.
 
HumblePi said:
You think that's bad? I started working as a nurse's aide with zero training, this was before State credentialing of nursing assistants was mandated and they needed to be certified. My training was on the job. Imagine never doing work such as being responsible for changing, feeding, dressing, shaving, transporting, lifting, doing vital signs, reporting problems, etc. all fell on your head --- without any training except for a few days of following around with another aide that worked there?

I remember the first 'gentleman' I had to dress. I got his underwear and they were a one-piece cotton garment, similar to the illustration below, the guy on the left.

View attachment 67281359

The only thing I couldn't figure out was how to put it on him. I thought I did it right but when he stood up I knew I had it on backwards. There was a long split that was supposed to go at the back, on the rear-end so the men could leave on that one piece suit and still sit down on the toilet to do their business. Hey, how would I know what underwear from the 1930's looked like? I also put this poor guy's dentures in his mouth upside down so the upper plate went across his tongue. I figured that one out pretty quickly when he started talking funny.

Oh some good experiences, for sure. Nevertheless, we survived all those days.
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Thats ****ed I heard from my mom working in retirement homes now days that they arent even allowed to read books because of covids. Poor old people.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Thats ****ed I heard from my mom working in retirement homes now days that they arent even allowed to read books because of covids. Poor old people.
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Not many read books from what I've experienced. Most will listen to music or watch television. The activities department usually has some group activities for those who want to join. They play bingo and they play other games like ring toss, they also get 'visiting entertainment' from groups that go to nursing facilities to play live music, sing, dance or entertain in some way.
 
HumblePi said:
Not many read books from what I've experienced. Most will listen to music or watch television. The activities department usually has some group activities for those who want to join. They play bingo and they play other games like ring toss, they also get 'visiting entertainment' from groups that go to nursing facilities to play live music, sing, dance or entertain in some way.
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Ya from covid n'**** the local one doesnt have bingo or anything like that everyone has been single room isolated for a long time, last I heard.
 
I worked in a nursing home with my mom (she specialized for over 30 years in geriatrics) when I was 15-16 years old (I had to actually get a work permit). I had a background check, drug test, and had to get some vaccinations and a TB test. My job was basically that of a paid candy striper (my job title was "Helping Hand", and I made just over minimum wage, and yes my mother was the reason I was offered the job). After school, I refilled everyone's water pitchers, took a break, then gave out snacks.

Not everyone was old, but this facility didn't do certain kinds of care. If a resident declined to a certain mental state where they were mobile but either violent or prone to wander off, they had to be transferred to a different, more secure facility.

We had a lot of people who were very cognizant they just couldn't completely take care of themselves for various reasons. There were at least two couples where only one really needed to be there but the other couldn't care for their spouse. There were others who couldn't move from their beds (one of the women there was under 40, had MS but was mentally very sharp, she was such a great person, and the older staff had no problem with letting the 15/16 year old take her out to help her smoke). There were several with alzheimers who didn't know where they were at times, who others were. At least one man had dementia and Im pretty sure ended up getting moved to a more secure facility because he kept trying to leave and do other things to hurt himself. There was also a dirty old man who liked to get naked and hit on the female staff.

But I definitely can see problems with mandating cameras in rooms. And it still wouldn't have prevented this sort of incident. He wouldn't have cared because he had severe mental problems. He shouldn't have been in this type of facility. That was the failing in this case. Most abuse in such places happens by the staff, who would know where the cameras are that would stop such events earlier. All hallways and other public areas should be monitored via camera, which could help reduce this sort of situation by catching someone in the wrong area earlier.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
roguenuke said:
I worked in a nursing home with my mom (she specialized for over 30 years in geriatrics) when I was 15-16 years old (I had to actually get a work permit). I had a background check, drug test, and had to get some vaccinations and a TB test. My job was basically that of a paid candy striper (my job title was "Helping Hand", and I made just over minimum wage, and yes my mother was the reason I was offered the job). After school, I refilled everyone's water pitchers, took a break, then gave out snacks.

Not everyone was old, but this facility didn't do certain kinds of care. If a resident declined to a certain mental state where they were mobile but either violent or prone to wander off, they had to be transferred to a different, more secure facility.

We had a lot of people who were very cognizant they just couldn't completely take care of themselves for various reasons. There were at least two couples where only one really needed to be there but the other couldn't care for their spouse. There were others who couldn't move from their beds (one of the women there was under 40, had MS but was mentally very sharp, she was such a great person, and the older staff had no problem with letting the 15/16 year old take her out to help her smoke). There were several with alzheimers who didn't know where they were at times, who others were. At least one man had dementia and Im pretty sure ended up getting moved to a more secure facility because he kept trying to leave and do other things to hurt himself. There was also a dirty old man who liked to get naked and hit on the female staff.

But I definitely can see problems with mandating cameras in rooms. And it still wouldn't have prevented this sort of incident. He wouldn't have cared because he had severe mental problems. He shouldn't have been in this type of facility. That was the failing in this case. Most abuse in such places happens by the staff, who would know where the cameras are that would stop such events earlier. All hallways and other public areas should be monitored via camera, which could help reduce this sort of situation by catching someone in the wrong area earlier.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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The thing is with cameras established in every room for ever patient that wants one, and in hallways could still help if federally monitored. An elderly being abused could make a stand at a camera and refuse to leave the cameras pressence until someone sees them protesting. I agree if the staff was abusive they would get used to where the cameras are.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
The thing is with cameras established in every room for ever patient that wants one, and in hallways could still help if federally monitored. An elderly being abused could make a stand at a camera and refuse to leave the cameras pressence until someone sees them protesting. I agree if the staff was abusive they would get used to where the cameras are.
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And it would be a violation of their privacy. However given how many patients are in such care facilities, it would be unlikely that even those who were being abused like this patient was would get seen before anyone could help. There are other things that could help, like ensuring the patients (especially the cognizant ones) have an alert button on them as well as one near their bed and in their bathroom to be able to raise an alarm in such a situation.

I don't have any issue with those patients who want a camera in their room to have one as long as they are fully informed. I do have an issue with family members making the decision, especially if the patient is cognizant at all.

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God dammit now I feel bad arguinng with my mom yesterday about elderly nursing home patient rights. Horrible timing. After we got in a fight the next day one of her residents died. 104 years old. :( My stupid cursed timing.
 
I have been in nursing homes at the wrong time and have seen "diaper-changing time," walking past rooms with helpless people exposed because, I guess, this is "efficient." Never mind the human dignity deserved by even the most vulnerable of us all. :(
 
People in the end phase of their lives have few enough opportunities to retain any dignity. Putting cameras everywhere as they are moving toward their final breath is not something I could get on board with.
 
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