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If you lose your job, do you still have a moral duty to pay your rent on time?

If you lose your job, do you still have a moral duty to pay your rent on time?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 42 62.7%

  • No.

    Votes: 9 13.4%

  • Depends on the circumstances.

    Votes: 15 22.4%

  • Undecided, no opinion.

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Total voters
    67
BahamaBob said:
Every person makes life choices. Smart people make choices that make them successful. They learn skills, get an education, don't do drugs or alcohol to excess. They find employment, work hard and live within their means. The other side of the coin are those who think success just happens. They drop out of school, get knocked up, do petty crimes, work enough to eke by and try to stay high.

Every life decision has a consequence. It is those decisions that make you either a winner or a loser.

Winners save and invest. When tough times hit they have the capital to take advantage of the opportunities created. When the crisis is over they are in better shape than when it started. Losers live large. They buy everything on credit. They live hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. They think saving and investing is for fools or something you start doing when you get close to retirement age. When tough times hit they go begging, whining and pointing fingers. Losers always are the one's who suffer and envy makes them hate those who aren't.
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This is such a naive and silly attempt to, I don't know, make yourself feel better about having advantages that others might not have? Regardless, it is a supremely naive view of why people are generally in the demographic that they are in.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sounds like a lot of First World No Problems People who have no ****ing idea what the vast majority of hourly and poor people have to live with...
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I dont really understand why mentally and physically healthy adults remain in such situations their entire adult lives. If you remain at an entry-level or minimum wage job your entire life...what is the excuse for not improving your skills? Or learning new? Or moving to where you can live more affordably?

I'm not talking about people that fall on hard times thru sickness, emergency, etc. And if you had kids before you could afford them, that's also not anyone else's fault.
 
jotathought said:
Many landlords and organizations will work with consumers given the national situation and the large number of consumers it is/will be impacting. With that said, this should be a learning opportunity for consumers to think about setting side a small portion of their income as an emergency fund to carry them through these types of circumstances.
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It should be, but for most people it won't. We had the worst recession since the Great Depression in 2008-'09, and what did we learn? Not much. For example, most auto loans these days are financed through dealerships. People will borrow $30k-plus to buy a new car because they "can't afford" a used one or collect even four hundred bucks to repair it when it breaks, as it inevitably will. When the new one breaks, they use the warranty. And when the warranty expires, they buy ANOTHER new car, rolling the old 8 or 10-year loan into a new one. :doh So, no, I don't have much faith consumers will learn, and neither will the the lenders. What we need to learn to do is get lending rates in line with the actual risk and not bail out the lenders when things go south. THAT will cure the problem.
 
Lursa said:
I dont really understand why mentally and physically healthy adults remain in such situations their entire adult lives. If you remain at an entry-level or minimum wage job your entire life...what is the excuse for not improving your skills? Or learning new? Or moving to where you can live more affordably?

I'm not talking about people that fall on hard times thru sickness, emergency, etc. And if you had kids before you could afford them, that's also not anyone else's fault.
Click to expand...

I see it as a teacher... poor uneducated parents that are raised poor and do not value education and repeat the cycle with their kids... People don't seem to think (no insult intended) about poor and uneducated John who's parents are any combination of the follow, poor, abusive, drug addicts, drug dealers, gang affiliated, in jail, in a bad neighborhood, kid is an alcohol syndrome baby, etc etc and then what John starts to like girls... but what girl wants to be with John that can not relate to any of those things but Jane, who lives in the same bad neighborhood, has parents the same as John's, etc. I see it every year... when they get into their senior years and you see John and Jane together and think, holy crap, the cycle is going to continue...

...and you are thinking "why do they continue in a dead end job?"... most of the time it is because they had zero role-modeling in their life regarding what success looked like or how to build a successful education, to go to college or a trade school, to up their qualifications, to write a decent resume, etc. They are in class not giving a **** and it reflects on them when they are trying to get a job. Who was going to role-model for them at home, their older brother on drugs? Their dad in a gang? Their family on the lower IQ level to begin with? I often wonder why John is the way he is and every now and then a parent will come in that cares, but has no idea what to do and I see them with their bad hygiene, uneducated speaking, etc. and then you know.

The worst is when we have an obviously bright kid that was raised in this situation and wants to do better but does not know how. Every year or so there is a stand out kid but the best they generally end up doing is being the head of their road side crew or construction crew or foreman of a dock and the really lucky ones go into the military and learn discipline, routine, etc.

Anyway, for all the bright kids doing good in school, pulling A's and B's and you DON'T THINK... why are these kids not ending up in low paying hourly jobs at McDonald's? Flip your thinking and apply the same logic to the ones at the bottom.
 
cpwill said:
I suppose that's why most folks are in favor of boosting unemployment benefits to replace those lost wages, along with / and-or the per-capita checks.
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As long as evictions are illegal until the renter gets the money necessary to pay their bills...
 
Bodhisattva said:
This is such a naive and silly attempt to, I don't know, make yourself feel better about having advantages that others might not have? Regardless, it is a supremely naive view of why people are generally in the demographic that they are in.
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For some reality is hard to face. But keep up your spinning, it makes me laugh.
 
BahamaBob said:
For some reality is hard to face. But keep up your spinning, it makes me laugh.
Click to expand...

You displayed a ridiculous view as to why some people succeed and some people do not. Advantage is generally the reason that most people succeed. They are propped up at the beginning of life with more opportunities and chances whether it is parents with money or a higher natural IQ... but you go ahead and think that you just deserve it because people in hourly jobs or not making it are losers that don't try. :lol:

What idiocy...

Read post #554
 
Ahlevah said:
It should be, but for most people it won't. We had the worst recession since the Great Depression in 2008-'09, and what did we learn? Not much. For example, most auto loans these days are financed through dealerships. People will borrow $30k-plus to buy a new car because they "can't afford" a used one or collect even four hundred bucks to repair it when it breaks, as it inevitably will. When the new one breaks, they use the warranty. And when the warranty expires, they buy ANOTHER new car, rolling the old 8 or 10-year loan into a new one. :doh So, no, I don't have much faith consumers will learn, and neither will the the lenders. What we need to learn to do is get lending rates in line with the actual risk and not bail out the lenders when things go south. THAT will cure the problem.
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it's really sad .. it really doesn't take much to set aside $500 or $1000 even if you're making minimum wage. A minimum wage worker making $7.50/hr earns roughly $15.6K annually (gross). If only $10 per week were set aside from each paycheck, they could have a $1000 emergency fund in less than 2 years. Ten dollars a week is the equivalent of a couple Starbucks each week and even the poorest have amenities they could sacrifice (cable tv, cell phone usage, etc.)
 
Ahlevah said:
I would say yes, you do, although under the circumstances I think it would be a dick move for a landlord to issue a three-day notice to pay rent or a two-week eviction notice. But, yeah, this is why it is imperative that families set aside funds for emergencies and unforeseen events like this pandemic. You shouldn't demand charity. Living in a private apartment or home owned by someone else isn't a right.
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Since you should already have an emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses, if you lose your job you would just pay rent out of that emergency fund. That's what it's for. So yes, you should still pay rent on-time.
 
Mycroft said:
Yes.

And pay your utilities, car insurance, vehicle registration if it's due and if you want to keep driving. Pay your credit card bills.

Just because you don't have any money, that's not a reason to not be responsible.

On the other hand, you could try talking to the people you owe money to. They may have mercy on you.

And if you simply cannot make ends meet, now would be a good time to reduce you debt to income ratio.
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I can't get new tags for one of my cars yet, because DEQ is closed.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I see it as a teacher... poor uneducated parents that are raised poor and do not value education and repeat the cycle with their kids... People don't seem to think (no insult intended) about poor and uneducated John who's parents are any combination of the follow, poor, abusive, drug addicts, drug dealers, gang affiliated, in jail, in a bad neighborhood, kid is an alcohol syndrome baby, etc etc and then what John starts to like girls... but what girl wants to be with John that can not relate to any of those things but Jane, who lives in the same bad neighborhood, has parents the same as John's, etc. I see it every year... when they get into their senior years and you see John and Jane together and think, holy crap, the cycle is going to continue...

...and you are thinking "why do they continue in a dead end job?"... most of the time it is because they had zero role-modeling in their life regarding what success looked like or how to build a successful education, to go to college or a trade school, to up their qualifications, to write a decent resume, etc. They are in class not giving a **** and it reflects on them when they are trying to get a job. Who was going to role-model for them at home, their older brother on drugs? Their dad in a gang? Their family on the lower IQ level to begin with? I often wonder why John is the way he is and every now and then a parent will come in that cares, but has no idea what to do and I see them with their bad hygiene, uneducated speaking, etc. and then you know.

The worst is when we have an obviously bright kid that was raised in this situation and wants to do better but does not know how. Every year or so there is a stand out kid but the best they generally end up doing is being the head of their road side crew or construction crew or foreman of a dock and the really lucky ones go into the military and learn discipline, routine, etc.

Anyway, for all the bright kids doing good in school, pulling A's and B's and you DON'T THINK... why are these kids not ending up in low paying hourly jobs at McDonald's? Flip your thinking and apply the same logic to the ones at the bottom.
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Hmm according to you, loser parents are so stupid they don't realize why they are losers. They don't aspire for their children to succeed. They want their children to have the same miserable existence they have. Gee and loser kids are not capable of bettering themselves because they don't know any better. To some that may seem pretty simplistic and stupid. Most just see it as liberal excuses.

I see you are from New Zealand, one of the most racist countries in the world. That may be the way it works over there, but here it is different. Hell, even a black man who was raised by a single parent can become president.

In truth, people who believe like you should not be teaching. Teachers should inspire. They should teach kids to achieve. They should teach kids there are no limits. They should teach that poverty can be easily overcome and tell them how. There are many positive roll models to point them to. There are too many teachers who feel superior to the lowly. They aren't skilled enough to inspire. They go through the motions but are not really teachers, they just take up space and draw a paycheck.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You displayed a ridiculous view as to why some people succeed and some people do not. Advantage is generally the reason that most people succeed. They are propped up at the beginning of life with more opportunities and chances whether it is parents with money or a higher natural IQ... but you go ahead and think that you just deserve it because people in hourly jobs or not making it are losers that don't try. :lol:

What idiocy...

Read post #554
Click to expand...

Some people create their own advantage by saving money.

In general, more responsible people lift their lives up, and irresponsible people end up going no where in life.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I see it as a teacher... poor uneducated parents that are raised poor and do not value education and repeat the cycle with their kids... People don't seem to think (no insult intended) about poor and uneducated John who's parents are any combination of the follow, poor, abusive, drug addicts, drug dealers, gang affiliated, in jail, in a bad neighborhood, kid is an alcohol syndrome baby, etc etc and then what John starts to like girls... but what girl wants to be with John that can not relate to any of those things but Jane, who lives in the same bad neighborhood, has parents the same as John's, etc. I see it every year... when they get into their senior years and you see John and Jane together and think, holy crap, the cycle is going to continue...

...and you are thinking "why do they continue in a dead end job?"... most of the time it is because they had zero role-modeling in their life regarding what success looked like or how to build a successful education, to go to college or a trade school, to up their qualifications, to write a decent resume, etc. They are in class not giving a **** and it reflects on them when they are trying to get a job. Who was going to role-model for them at home, their older brother on drugs? Their dad in a gang? Their family on the lower IQ level to begin with? I often wonder why John is the way he is and every now and then a parent will come in that cares, but has no idea what to do and I see them with their bad hygiene, uneducated speaking, etc. and then you know.

The worst is when we have an obviously bright kid that was raised in this situation and wants to do better but does not know how. Every year or so there is a stand out kid but the best they generally end up doing is being the head of their road side crew or construction crew or foreman of a dock and the really lucky ones go into the military and learn discipline, routine, etc.

Anyway, for all the bright kids doing good in school, pulling A's and B's and you DON'T THINK... why are these kids not ending up in low paying hourly jobs at McDonald's? Flip your thinking and apply the same logic to the ones at the bottom.
Click to expand...

I dont understand why schools, thru guidance counselors, dont do a better job of actively seeing that students dont graduate without a viable career or trade plan. And with engaging the parents and holding them more responsible. I do agree that many parents do drop the ball there.

IMO, many people graduate high school and 'just let life happen' to them. I'm not sure what they are expecting...to win the lottery? That their band will make it big? That some high-paying job that requires no skills will fall in their laps?
 
Bodhisattva said:
You displayed a ridiculous view as to why some people succeed and some people do not. Advantage is generally the reason that most people succeed. They are propped up at the beginning of life with more opportunities and chances whether it is parents with money or a higher natural IQ... but you go ahead and think that you just deserve it because people in hourly jobs or not making it are losers that don't try. :lol:

What idiocy...

Read post #554
Click to expand...

More liberal excuses to be a loser. There are countless programs that aid disadvantaged kids. Millions of people with what you call a low IQ succeed in life. Someone who calls himself a teacher should know that. Of course, like they say if you can't do it teach it. Some people have high IQs but are not capable of applying what they know. Their knowledge is just words.
 
You have an moral duty to do your level best to keep your promises, but I don't think that duty supersedes the life or health of yourself or another. Its that 'on time' part that we get to wiggle around a little in. There is a difference between not paying on time, and walking away from that bill entirely without making the effort.

I think a much more fuzzy moral decision is the decision to declare bankruptcy. Its a smart, very prudent public policy call to create a way to clean the personal slate from overwhelming and drowning debts, and get a relatively free start, especially when a lot of the debt is created by huge medical debt, but from a moral standpoint, you are literally receiving goods and services without compensation, and knowingly and intentionally shafting your debtors with the consequences of your unkept promises. Strictly speaking, If there is no payment agreement of any sort, there is a breach of moral accountability.
 
Mycroft said:
Yes.

And pay your utilities, car insurance, vehicle registration if it's due and if you want to keep driving. Pay your credit card bills.

Just because you don't have any money, that's not a reason to not be responsible.

On the other hand, you could try talking to the people you owe money to. They may have mercy on you.

And if you simply cannot make ends meet, now would be a good time to reduce you debt to income ratio.
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Unbelievable.

1) Is tax-paying Mycroft getting a government handout during this virus thing that is wrecking average tax-payers' livelihoods?

2) MSgt is not. MSgt earns way too much a year and this virus thing has no effect on MSgt, because MSgt made the "right decisions" in life.

3) MyCroft must not have, thus MyCroft is a burden on society for being fired, thus has no sense of responsibility to pay the bills MyCroft once payed.

4) Beg for mercy, Mycroft. Next time, pull your bootstraps up and work harder.


*This crisis has really pushed your fractured ideologies to the brink haven't they? Instead of answering the question within the obvious virus context that it was meant, you simply default to a shallow ideology in which this crisis has compromised.
 
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Ahlevah said:
I would say yes, you do, although under the circumstances I think it would be a dick move for a landlord to issue a three-day notice to pay rent or a two-week eviction notice. But, yeah, this is why it is imperative that families set aside funds for emergencies and unforeseen events like this pandemic. You shouldn't demand charity. Living in a private apartment or home owned by someone else isn't a right.
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As a Christian I would do everything in my power to pay my rent even if I had to make payments in arrears after I had been kicked out for nonpayment. The problem with paying our rent on time if we do not have the money is that it cannot be done.
 
Lursa said:
I dont understand why schools, thru guidance counselors, dont do a better job of actively seeing that students dont graduate without a viable career or trade plan. And with engaging the parents and holding them more responsible. I do agree that many parents do drop the ball there.

IMO, many people graduate high school and 'just let life happen' to them. I'm not sure what they are expecting...to win the lottery? That their band will make it big? That some high-paying job that requires no skills will fall in their laps?
Click to expand...


The public education system has evolved into thinking they are prep schools. They don't want to admit that they can not achieve that. More than half the children in public schools are not candidates for college. These kids fall through the cracks and are swept under the rug. Years ago when the United States was number one in education, they had auto shop, industrial training, home ed and other classes that were geared toward kids that were not headed to college. The saddest part of this is their is a great demand for people with these skills.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Some people create their own advantage by saving money.

In general, more responsible people lift their lives up, and irresponsible people end up going no where in life.
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Yes. I never said otherwise... what I talked about were reasons why some people to not understand that concept of responsibility and those reasons were well articulated in post #554. Debate those points and don't just toss out some talking point...
 
Lursa said:
I dont understand why schools, thru guidance counselors, dont do a better job of actively seeing that students dont graduate without a viable career or trade plan. And with engaging the parents and holding them more responsible. I do agree that many parents do drop the ball there.
Click to expand...

Many parents do and your point about schools not doing a better job of actively seeing that student's do not graduate without a viable career or trade plan is a good one. I have one phrase for you... THAT IS POLITICS. Not just politicians, per say, but school district administrators... they care about graduation rates, etc, funding, etc. that is way beyond a teachers power. It is beyond a principals power, for that matter. I have seen too many kids that have not learned much of anything, that have produced F averages, etc. graduate to the next grade and the next grade and some who eventually "graduate" high school with a diploma. WTF? :shrug:
 
Depends...if you pare back on all of your expenditures and still can't pay, then there is no moral obligation.

Personally, however, I don't believe transactions such as these as moral obligations. It IS an obligation, but not a moral one. Especially given how so many states do NOT protect renters from landowner/landlord abuses. Morality aside, it is a transactional obligation that should be honored within reason. But there are exceptions...

One of those exceptions would be what we are going through right now; people losing jobs through no fault of their own and because of the pandemic, it isn't easy to find a new one anytime soon. And it's not like there is a huge glut of people relocating and clamoring for apartments at the moment. It is actually in the interest of the landlord/landowner to make allowances; if they evict, they still lose the tenant's money and there isn't someone readily available to take that tenant's place. Not to mention the fact that people will probably stay away from a rental if they know the landlord will kick them out, displaying a lack of empathy for the situation....
 
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Mycroft said:
Yes.

And pay your utilities, car insurance, vehicle registration if it's due and if you want to keep driving. Pay your credit card bills.

Just because you don't have any money, that's not a reason to not be responsible.

On the other hand, you could try talking to the people you owe money to. They may have mercy on you.

And if you simply cannot make ends meet, now would be a good time to reduce you debt to income ratio.
Click to expand...

WARNING

There are crooks taking money from debtors promising them immediate relief for a rather large fee.

Do not use them.

Directly go to those you owe to. See what they would do for you. In some cases a payment reduction will be granted upon request.
 
Lursa said:
I dont understand why schools, thru guidance counselors, dont do a better job of actively seeing that students dont graduate without a viable career or trade plan. And with engaging the parents and holding them more responsible. I do agree that many parents do drop the ball there.

IMO, many people graduate high school and 'just let life happen' to them. I'm not sure what they are expecting...to win the lottery? That their band will make it big? That some high-paying job that requires no skills will fall in their laps?
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I have been challenged more than one time by saying schools owe the children the education to keep them out of financial hot water. And pointed out that includes goal setting and correct planning. And putting all in writing.

The economical well being of all citizens, including the youth needs to be addressed at the school level. A rigorous course in the final years of high school could easily handle the problem.

It is true that far too many citizens lack the clear understanding of those items, goal setting and planning and the value they give to all using them.
 
MSgt said:
Unbelievable.

1) Is tax-paying Mycroft getting a government handout during this virus thing that is wrecking average tax-payers' livelihoods?

2) MSgt is not. MSgt earns way too much a year and this virus thing has no effect on MSgt, because MSgt made the "right decisions" in life.

3) MyCroft must not have, thus MyCroft is a burden on society for being fired, thus has no sense of responsibility to pay the bills MyCroft once payed.

4) Beg for mercy, Mycroft. Next time, pull your bootstraps up and work harder.


*This crisis has really pushed your fractured ideologies to the brink haven't they? Instead of answering the question within the obvious virus context that it was meant, you simply default to a shallow ideology in which this crisis has compromised.
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I have no problem paying my bills and I receive no handouts. So don't make assumptions about me. In fact, don't make this about me, period. This thread is predicated on a general question of morality. I gave my answer regarding that morality. You are free to disagree, but I advise you not to denigrate me while you do so.

You are dismissed. (see my sig)
 
BahamaBob said:
Hmm according to you, loser parents are so stupid they don't realize why they are losers. They don't aspire for their children to succeed. They want their children to have the same miserable existence they have. Gee and loser kids are not capable of bettering themselves because they don't know any better. To some that may seem pretty simplistic and stupid. Most just see it as liberal excuses.

I see you are from New Zealand, one of the most racist countries in the world. That may be the way it works over there, but here it is different. Hell, even a black man who was raised by a single parent can become president.

In truth, people who believe like you should not be teaching. Teachers should inspire. They should teach kids to achieve. They should teach kids there are no limits. They should teach that poverty can be easily overcome and tell them how. There are many positive roll models to point them to. There are too many teachers who feel superior to the lowly. They aren't skilled enough to inspire. They go through the motions but are not really teachers, they just take up space and draw a paycheck.
Click to expand...

How many times have we heard the story of the kid that had nothing growing up and that created a fire in his belly to succeed in life?

I wonder where that has gone.
 
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