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Are You Willing to Starve to Marginally Reduce the Mortality Rate of the Coronavirus

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AmNat said:
Has this or anything like it happened anywhere?

Also, that many Americans die every year in the normal course of things.



If you think a depression is only about "the stock.market", you obviously don't understand basic economics.

The reason the stock market is tanking is because the underlying businesses are going under or are expected to. Either because they've been shut down, will shut down due to supply chain disruptions, or will lose business as the public becomes poorer.





Why do liberals so often personalize everything? "You disagree with me, therefore you're immoral", "what if you were XYZ", etc. Can you not think about things from an objective POV?



South Korea hasn't torpedoed their economy, and they're doing fine.

How do think a depression would affect the mortality rate?







This thread is about the costs and benefits of triggering a depression to contain the coronavirus, not your obsession with conservatives, Trump, or the pro-life movement.
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We can still agree to vote against the mango moron. Looking forward to it.
 
AmNat said:
This thread is about the costs and benefits of triggering a depression to contain the coronavirus, not your obsession with conservatives, Trump, or the pro-life movement.
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Oh, of course! Let's all help conservatives ignore their own history and their pure hypocrisy of the moment so that they can pretend that they are the responsible ones. Do you even realize that by wanting people to focus, not on the routine irrationality of conservatives anymore, but on the "bigger picture," that you relegate what conservatives routinely pretend to stand for as largely insignificant nonsense?

I would argue that had Trump, the GOP, and their many moron voters not been on a crusade to enrich the wealthy for over two decades, culminating in the 2017 Tax-Cut and Jobs Act which allowed 91 billion-dollar corporations in the Fortune 500 pay 0% taxes in 2018, that our government would have much more tax-payer dollars to assist the population and decrease the possibility of depression. Of course, this means criticizing what has become routine conservative behavior that brought us here, and we should avoid such things for the moment, right?

Perhaps, just perhaps, if you and your kind chose to look in the mirror and finally learn from the economic mess you all insist on creating, we could all focus more on what you want. You see instead of having to deal with just this virus and social remedies, we all get to focus on the virus, social remedies, and a broke-ass government that has to borrow its way to assist tax-paying citizens in need. Oh, but in normal times, you all criticize such things as "socialism" as you irrationally denigrate Democrats for doing what you people cheer Trump for today.
 
Lursa said:
So is your solution to end the 'stay at home' orders? You have a poll that makes it sound like there's an option(s).

What do you want done to 'avoid the next depression?'
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Yes. Let people go outside, restart businesses, and keep the elderly or immunocompromised isolated (as they already are) for the duration (which will be shorter if everyone else is building immunity).

iguanaman said:
Trump's arrogance and incompetence has taken away our choices. We cannot test sufficiently to allow reopening anywhere anytime soon. It is not the measures we are taking that is hurting the economy...it is the virus. We must beat it into submission to rescue the economy.
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"The leeches haven't made me any better doctor, I need more."

SouthernDemocrat said:
That number would be in addition to the number of Americans that normally die every year. It is early in the pandemic, and all other advanced economies have taken social distancing measures, contact tracing, stay at home orders and so on to decrease transmission rates. Are you saying you want to run an experiment here in America where we just open everything up like normal and see what happens?
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South Korea and Japan haven't shut everything down, yet your doomsday scenario has not come true, despite those countries being exposed for longer than we have.

I wish that we would follow the same policy of promoting herd immunity that the British government intended to, before they were pressured into falling in line. If "letting people go about their lives" is an "experiment" to you, you've spent to much time in the laboratory. Putting the world on pause is the experiment.

roguenuke said:
Yes it is, until we get that level of testing and confirmation, slow down of the infection. I and others cherish our loved ones, and have prepared ourselves to actually handle a little time in a not so great economy so that others have a better chance of living.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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Again, hunger can kill as well as any virus. So can suicide. Both of which will go up in a depression, which will result if this goes on for any length of time.
 
As a Canadian, it would be inappropriate for me to offer any opinion of your President. My question of the OP is why is a depression of any length of time viewed as inevitable. After the Great War, the world was ravaged by the so-called Spanish flu pandemic. After that ran it's course, we went straight into the "Roaring Twenties." The same happened after the Black Death in 1350. How we emerge from this disaster rests on our attitude. Do we roll over or do we get up and re-build. History shows the USA is not a nation to lie down beaten. Neither is Canada.
 
Lursa said:
So is your solution to end the 'stay at home' orders? You have a poll that makes it sound like there's an option(s).

What do you want done to 'avoid the next depression?'
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AmNat said:
Yes. Let people go outside, restart businesses, and keep the elderly or immunocompromised isolated (as they already are) for the duration (which will be shorter if everyone else is building immunity).
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Well first...you can only develop immunity if you are infected :roll: (And they're not sure if that's true yet either, some people appear to have been re-infected in other countries.)

So then this is what you think would be better? Previously posted:

The decision is about trading lives for $.

Millions of sick and dead (during the concentrated spike instead of flattening) are a huge burden on an economy too. And that will happen during your hoped-for recovery if we open things up too soon...so it would be dragging it back down anyway. Sick and dead people dont work. They dont buy stuff.

A good question might be: for people in the Depression, would you rather have been dead / lose your family to the virus or struggle in the Depression?

I can ask my mother.


Who says that re-opened economy can absorb the treatment and funerals and providing the resources for the increased numbers of sick and dead?

According to most medical experts, those numbers will grow with The Donald's/your plan and start counter-acting the recovery. If you only open up certain regions...how do you keep people from the sicker regions (and very likely exposed and are carriers) from leaving their economically depressed areas to go and try for jobs and to escape sickness & restrictions to go and live in the open areas? And of course, still the added burden I mentioned and the fact that sick and dead people dont contribute to growing an economy.


And then of course, there's this, a lesson to be learned from Hong Kong:

Hong Kong appeared to have the coronavirus under control, then it let its guard down - CNN
 
AmNat said:
South Korea and Japan haven't shut everything down, yet your doomsday scenario has not come true, despite those countries being exposed for longer than we have.

.
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Because they did massive amounts of testing and contact tracing. South Korea has tested 1 out of 142 of its citizens, and started doing so early on. In contrast, we have tested 1 out of 780 of our citizens, and most of our testing has been in the last 10 days, after we had several epicenters of human to human transmission already. Had Trump not pissed away the last 3 months bragging about how he had everything under control, and adopted South Koreas model of testing and contact tracing, we would not be in the situation we are in now where we have to shut down our economy to control the outbreak.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Because they did massive amounts of testing and contact tracing. South Korea has tested 1 out of 142 of its citizens, and started doing so early on. In contrast, we have tested 1 out of 780 of our citizens, and most of our testing has been in the last 10 days, after we had several epicenters of human to human transmission already. Had Trump not pissed away the last 3 months bragging about how he had everything under control, and adopted South Koreas model of testing and contact tracing, we would not be in the situation we are in now where we have to shut down our economy to control the outbreak.
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And they did it super-early. The disease already had a foot hold here in the US, esp in WA St, before any testing started. Same with their social distancing efforts.
 
queenmandy85 said:
As a Canadian, it would be inappropriate for me to offer any opinion of your President. My question of the OP is why is a depression of any length of time viewed as inevitable. After the Great War, the world was ravaged by the so-called Spanish flu pandemic. After that ran it's course, we went straight into the "Roaring Twenties." The same happened after the Black Death in 1350. How we emerge from this disaster rests on our attitude. Do we roll over or do we get up and re-build. History shows the USA is not a nation to lie down beaten. Neither is Canada.
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The Black Death didn't lead to any sort of economic shutdown (they didn't have the luxury back then). The Spanish flu only led to short term shutdowns of some businesses in highly affected areas, it didn't lead to a general shutdown of the economy.

Lursa said:
Well first...you can only develop immunity if you are infected
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And? Most people aren't at serious risk from this thing.

So then this is what you think would be better? Previously posted:

The decision is about trading lives for $.
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No it isn't. This is an especially absurd remark coming from those who support people who literally end lives for money.

Millions of sick and dead (during the concentrated spike instead of flattening) are a huge burden on an economy too. And that will happen during your hoped-for recovery if we open things up too soon...so it would be dragging it back down anyway. Sick and dead people dont work. They dont buy stuff.
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There is no evidence that this doomsday scenario in which millions die will actually come true. In any case, millions get sick and die every year.

A good question might be: for people in the Depression, would you rather have been dead / lose your family to the virus or struggle in the Depression?
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People in the Depression lived in a world where dying to infectious diseases was a constant possibility. They didn't put the world on hold pending the discovery of vaccines.
Who says that re-opened economy can absorb the treatment and funerals and providing the resources for the increased numbers of sick and dead?

According to most medical experts, those numbers will grow with The Donald's/your plan and start counter-acting the recovery. If you only open up certain regions...how do you keep people from the sicker regions (and very likely exposed and are carriers) from leaving their economically depressed areas to go and try for jobs and to escape sickness & restrictions to go and live in the open areas? And of course, still the added burden I mentioned and the fact that sick and dead people dont contribute to growing an economy.


And then of course, there's this, a lesson to be learned from Hong Kong:

Hong Kong appeared to have the coronavirus under control, then it let its guard down - CNN
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Close the borders, build the wall, etc.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Because they did massive amounts of testing and contact tracing. South Korea has tested 1 out of 142 of its citizens, and started doing so early on. In contrast, we have tested 1 out of 780 of our citizens, and most of our testing has been in the last 10 days, after we had several epicenters of human to human transmission already. Had Trump not pissed away the last 3 months bragging about how he had everything under control, and adopted South Koreas model of testing and contact tracing, we would not be in the situation we are in now where we have to shut down our economy to control the outbreak.
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Again, your doomsday scenario has not come true anywhere in the world.

If we opened back up, and the doomsayers were proven wrong, they'd just attribute the lack of disaster to whatever measures we had taken.
 
900+ people died in Italy TODAY from this virus.

I hate to say this, but that bit of news will probably bring a smile to some people's faces.
 
AmNat said:
There is no evidence that this doomsday scenario in which millions die will actually come true. In any case, millions get sick and die every year.

People in the Depression lived in a world where dying to infectious diseases was a constant possibility. They didn't put the world on hold pending the discovery of vaccines.
Who says that re-opened economy can absorb the treatment and funerals and providing the resources for the increased numbers of sick and dead?


Close the borders, build the wall, etc.
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So basically, you made almost no arguments, you just said 'na huh'.

Answer to all your medical questions: nearly all the medical experts. Even Fauci had to correct The Donald...bringing back to 'maybe just some regions.'

And you just dismissed the fact that the increased sick/dead people...which NO experts disagree with...will be an additional burden on the economy AND be removing the same # of people from contributing to the recovery of the economy: 'sick and dead people dont work and dont buy stuff."

Also, you ignored this: If you only open up certain regions...how do you keep people from the sicker regions (and very likely exposed and are carriers) from leaving their economically depressed areas to go and try for jobs and to escape sickness & restrictions to go and live in the open areas?

Build walls around Houston? Detroit? LA? Entire states? Close state borders? Really? So then no more food and supplies and medical equipment/meds getting in or out? Checkpoints on 'every road'? Do you really think you can stop people from moving around the US using force AND have the economy recover at the same time? :roll:
 
Lursa said:
And you just dismissed the fact that the increased sick/dead people...which NO experts disagree with...will be an additional burden on the economy AND be removing the same # of people from contributing to the recovery of the economy
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I cannot comprehend the level of innumeracy required to write the bolded.
 
AmNat said:
I cannot comprehend the level of innumeracy required to write the bolded.
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Sorry, it's hard to write this stuff simply enough for some people to understand and so I was trying something else.

Let's go back to..."those same sick and dead people dont work and dont buy stuff.'
 
Lursa said:
Hong Kong also learned this, the hard way. I hope our "leadership" learns from it:

Hong Kong appeared to have the coronavirus under control, then it let its guard down - CNN
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I think Trump is too eager to reopen businesses for the stock market's sake. They'll brag about the curve flattening and try to lift the lockdown, whether that works or not, time will tell. So far, the economy seems to be handling the shut down better than I thought, though there will be some fallout later. We'll potentially get hit with a 2nd wave unless they come out with a vaccine before then.
 
dcaraz said:
NOT BOGUS REASONS WHY I DESPISE TRUMP (not that it will alter your passion for the man, right?):

1) He has denigrated Latinos, Hispanics, Blacks, Disabled folks, and countless women. I resent his racist poison spewed toward Hispanics--I am one.
2) His mega tax giveaway for major corporations and the dirty rich wealthy now limits our income tax deduction on our home because I live in a high tax state.
3) He is a sexual slime ball and whore monger. I may not be a prude, but I am clueless how any woman votes for or works for this creep.
4) He has harmed relationships with every nation that has been an American ally since WW 2 by attacking NATO and EU.
5) He has undermined our democracy by accepting Putin's word and refusing to protect our voting system from foreign hacking and manipulation.
6) He weakened us by attacking the US intelligence agencies and calling the free press/media "the enemy of the people".
7) He thumbed his nose at the rule of law by using the presidency to force Ukraine's government to help smear his political rival.

But all you care about is our "hate". We are the Resistance against Trump's efforts to take America in an autocratic direction.
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sounds like unfounded hysterics.He has not denigrated latinos. and what is the "dirty rich wealthy" this sounds like rather tertiary stage envy. How is America weaker based on your claims that he has weakened our relationship with allies?

This nonsense sounds like the standard leftwing talking points.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
900+ people died in Italy TODAY from this virus.

I hate to say this, but that bit of news will probably bring a smile to some people's faces.
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As I understand things 900 people with the virus died but many of them did not die because of the virus.

Why would anyone smile over this?
 
TurtleDude said:
As I understand things 900 people with the virus died but many of them did not die because of the virus.

Why would anyone smile over this?
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Why would anyone write such a thing?
omg... How do people think this **** up? :doh
 
trixare4kids said:
Why would anyone write such a thing?
omg... How do people think this **** up? :doh
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The TDS crowd is doing everything possible to use this panic to attack Trump and blame Trump for every death, inconvenience or shelf barren of toilet paper
 
TurtleDude said:
Why would anyone smile over this?
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Have you read through this thread?

And I had someone in a reply to me say hip-hip...... at the thought of 'boomer removal'...

Others have wrote here there are too many people in the world anyway..

I can go on, but I won't..

Have a nice night
 
TurtleDude said:
The TDS crowd is doing everything possible to use this panic to attack Trump and blame Trump for every death, inconvenience or shelf barren of toilet paper
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LOL.. I mention Italy and I'm bashing Trump?

Wow... You know he's a moron so you jump to conclusions and defend him even though no one pointed a finger at him...
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
LOL.. I mention Italy and I'm bashing Trump?

Wow... You know he's a moron so you jump to conclusions and defend him even though no one pointed a finger at him...
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I don't think a moron can win the presidency of the United States. I question the intellectual acuity of anyone who thinks Trump is actually a moron. I question those who said the same thing about President Obama. I disagreed with most of his policies but I never thought he was a "moron".
 
TurtleDude said:
The TDS crowd is doing everything possible to use this panic to attack Trump and blame Trump for every death, inconvenience or shelf barren of toilet paper
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And we, in turn, are calling them out on their stinky :bs.
If they don't like that, they ought to remember it isn't the Trump supporters who are hideously and dishonestly weaponizing a pandemic.

Liberals and moderate Democrat should also be calling out the loony leftist lying extremists who are lying through their teeth in order to hurt Trump.
Why aren't they????
 
TurtleDude said:
As I understand things 900 people with the virus died but many of them did not die because of the virus.

Why would anyone smile over this?
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What did they die of? Are you dismissing the secondary infections/conditions they cause?
 
Lursa said:
What did they die of? Are you dismissing the secondary infections/conditions they cause?
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I don't know what killed them-I do know that Italy was counting as Corona deaths-everyone who died who had corona.
 
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