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Dear Trump Supporter, Could you please make up your mind?

Make up your Mind Trump Supporters

  • Bernie is a Socialist and Denmark is a Socialist Country

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Denmark is a Capitalist Country, and Bernie is a Capitalist.

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • I'm not a stupid Trump supporter.

    Votes: 11 91.7%
  • Total voters
    12
MrWonka

MrWonka

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Joined
Mar 21, 2016
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Location
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Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Trump Supporters: Bernie is a Socialist. He wants Venezuela.
Bernie: No, I want Denmark.
Trump Supporters: Denmark is Capitalist.

Which is it going to be Trump Supporters? Bernie's policy ideas very clearly align with the types of things they have in places like Denmark, Finland, Norway and Canada. So are those countries Socialist Countries or is Bernie not really a Socialist?
 
Bernie identify's as a socialist so who am I to argue.
 
MrWonka said:
Trump Supporters: Bernie is a Socialist. He wants Venezuela.
Bernie: No, I want Denmark.
Trump Supporters: Denmark is Capitalist.

Which is it going to be Trump Supporters? Bernie's policy ideas very clearly align with the types of things they have in places like Denmark, Finland, Norway and Canada. So are those countries Socialist Countries or is Bernie not really a Socialist?
Click to expand...

Sanders is literally not a socialist. And he should also stop referring to himself as a "democratic socialist".
 
I don't think we could ever remake America into a Denmark.

Denmark is largely white with little diversity. It's a tiny country in a cold place.

America is diverse a.f.
 
MrWonka said:
Trump Supporters: Bernie is a Socialist. He wants Venezuela.
Bernie: No, I want Denmark.
Trump Supporters: Denmark is Capitalist.

Which is it going to be Trump Supporters? Bernie's policy ideas very clearly align with the types of things they have in places like Denmark, Finland, Norway and Canada. So are those countries Socialist Countries or is Bernie not really a Socialist?
Click to expand...

Sanders M4A plan (S. 1129) is not anything like that of UHC in Denmark.

Danish government healthcare expenditures amount to approximately 10.4% of the GDP, of which around 84% is funded from regional and municipal taxation redistributed by the central government. Because necessary healthcare is taxpayer-funded, personal expenses are minimal and usually associated with copayments for certain services. Those expenses are usually covered by private health insurance.
Click to expand...

Healthcare in Denmark - Wikipedia
 
Ikari said:
Sanders is literally not a socialist. And he should also stop referring to himself as a "democratic socialist".
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Why can't there just be a difference between Democratic Socialism and Socialism? I mean if I told you that I was a Catapultist who believes everyone should travel from place to place by being launched in a catapult would you be able to differentiate between that and a Capitalist even though they sound similar?

You know that Bill Pullman and Bill Paxton are in fact different actors right? The fact that they can be abbreviated as Bill P doesn't make them the same thing.
 
swing_voter said:
I don't think we could ever remake America into a Denmark.

Denmark is largely white with little diversity. It's a tiny country in a cold place.

America is diverse a.f.
Click to expand...

So nonwhites cannot be socialist?
 
MrWonka said:
Why can't there just be a difference between Democratic Socialism and Socialism? I mean if I told you that I was a Catapultist who believes everyone should travel from place to place by being launched in a catapult would you be able to differentiate between that and a Capitalist even though they sound similar?

You know that Bill Pullman and Bill Paxton are in fact different actors right? The fact that they can be abbreviated as Bill P doesn't make them the same thing.
Click to expand...

Democratic Socialism is a term that's already used, and it does refer to a form of actual socialism that revolves around the State usurping the means of production.

Sanders is closer to a Social Democracy platform, which is not socialist and exists within a capitalist economic make up.

Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented economy.
Click to expand...
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Sanders M4A plan (S. 1129) is not anything like that of UHC in Denmark.
Click to expand...


You do realize that medicare has some out of pocket expenses as well right? They sure look similar to me, but if you'd prefer Bernie and his supporters would happily just take the Denmark Healthcare plan, and copy and paste it over our own. Since we already have Medicare here in America the easier solution is simply to expand it to everyone, but if you want to do it the hard way...

copayment definition | medicareresources.org
 
swing_voter said:
I don't think we could ever remake America into a Denmark.

Denmark is largely white with little diversity. It's a tiny country in a cold place.

America is diverse a.f.
Click to expand...

So, basically you're a racist who believes only white people can be trusted with Socialism?
 
Mongidig said:
Bernie identify's as a socialist so who am I to argue.
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Well since you insist on calling him a Socialist instead of a Democratic Socialist it sure sounds to me like you are in fact arguing.
 
MrWonka said:
Why can't there just be a difference between Democratic Socialism and Socialism?
Click to expand...

Because under both the state owns or controls the means of production, and under that scenario the country will go down the toilet. It doesn't matter whether the government in charge was voted in.
 
MrWonka said:
You do realize that medicare has some out of pocket expenses as well right? They sure look similar to me, but if you'd prefer Bernie and his supporters would happily just take the Denmark Healthcare plan, and copy and paste it over our own. Since we already have Medicare here in America the easier solution is simply to expand it to everyone, but if you want to do it the hard way...

copayment definition | medicareresources.org
Click to expand...

I know full well what Medicare currently offers (I am now covered by it) and S. 1129 is a vastly different insurance plan. What Sanders is proposing is much closer to what Medicaid currently offers with its lack of monthly premiums, deductibles or co-pays, but with the funding (and provider payments) being shifted 100% to the federal government.
 
MrWonka said:
Trump Supporters: Bernie is a Socialist.
Click to expand...

Bernie has been calling himself a socialist for 40 years. Only very recently did he start using the term "democratic socialist".

He wants Venezuela.
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Bernie has a long history of defending Latin American dictators who have imposed socialism. He also praises Venezuela on his official senate website. I just posted a link to it in another post this morning. So yes, he does want Venezuela.
 
Denmark is a capitalistic country and Bernie is a liar.
 
swing_voter said:
I don't think we could ever remake America into a Denmark.

Denmark is largely white with little diversity. It's a tiny country in a cold place.

America is diverse a.f.
Click to expand...

And we're simply not good enough to do what those countries do.

Because we are inferior.
 
eman623 said:
Denmark is a capitalistic country and Bernie is a liar.
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So long as he calls himself any flavor of socialist, then yes. Though I've not seen many who use the term correctly.
 
bernie doesnt want Venezuela. He doesnt want Denmark. He wants his myopic vision of what he believes the Soviet Union and Cuba 'was' or could have been. He wants successful communism...which is this world where the government pays for everything and outside of the very rich and powerful like himself, everyone else will be 'ok'. HE wants the 'workers rights' mantra that he thinks will work but literally never works. Where somehow every business can pay massive taxes to pay for his socialist programs, pay employees great wags...and still be successful. He doesnt want there to be anyone super rich, but wants the super rich to be soaked to pay for his programs.

He wants a fairy tale.

The Scandanavian model is built on a certain set of ideals...and none of them would support Sanders vision.

 
I think Bernie is the one that needs to make up his mind.
 
VanceMack said:
bernie doesnt want Venezuela. He doesnt want Denmark. He wants his myopic vision of what he believes the Soviet Union and Cuba 'was' or could have been. He wants successful communism.
Click to expand...

Communism is fundamentally flawed. You'll never make a "successful" version of it.
 
Ikari said:
So long as he calls himself any flavor of socialist, then yes. Though I've not seen many who use the term correctly.
Click to expand...

Well, he did call for nationalization of most every major industry and business sector in the United States in the 1970s (and no, he was not a callow hot-headed youth, he was in his mid-thirties). He is either dishonestly mis-labeling himself, OR he is dishonestly mischaracterizing what he believes the ideal state of social and economic affairs of the United States should look like.

Does he no longer believe in nationalization? Well, despite his supposed disavowals, he continued to praise socialist governments that engaged in such control and direction of the economy up until now (i.e., China, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela) while tut-tutting the atrocities committed by the regimes. So it should be up to Sanders to explain himself, and he should clearly explain why he no longer believes nationalization and direct government control over people's economic affairs is ideal. Is he saying this because he believes nationalization is wrong? If so, why? Why, as a self-described democratic socialist, does he not believe that the government should nationalize most sectors of the economy, or at least control through them legally coercive measures?
 
Ikari said:
Democratic Socialism is a term that's already used, and it does refer to a form of actual socialism that revolves around the State usurping the means of production.

Sanders is closer to a Social Democracy platform, which is not socialist and exists within a capitalist economic make up.
Click to expand...

Facts and logic are rarely seen around these parts. Doesn't seem to matter to most what socialism actually is, it matters that they hate it or love it and apply as it fits a political narrative.
 
Kreton said:
Facts and logic are rarely seen around these parts. Doesn't seem to matter to most what socialism actually is, it matters that they hate it or love it and apply as it fits a political narrative.
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Well I think that for some time Republocrats have attempted to drive out facts and logic from the debate. They want people reacting emotionally, not logically. It helps them maintain their oligarchy.
 
Mongidig said:
Bernie identify's as a socialist so who am I to argue.
Click to expand...

He identifies as a Democratic Socialist which does not equal a socialist.
 
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