• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Buttigieg is Gay

Is Pete Buttigieg's sexuality a factor in his candidacy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 48.8%

  • No

    Votes: 9 10.5%

  • Irrelevant

    Votes: 29 33.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 7.0%
  • Total voters
    86
btthegreat said:
Wow. We are going to pause here. I know EXACTLY what that article in the link was talking about because I have dealt with this form of bigotry over and over and over and over again. You need to dial it back ecofarm, and read my post a lot more carefully.
Click to expand...

But no one said he had to be promiscuous. It's not fair of you to throw that onto gay people that see a more revolutionary set of politics for gay people. Their more revolutionary platform does not include promiscuity.
 
ecofarm said:
But no one said he had to be promiscuous. It's not fair of you to throw that onto gay people that see a more revolutionary set of politics for gay people. Their more revolutionary platform does not include promiscuity.
Click to expand...
You are right. They didn't say that. .
 
btthegreat said:
You are right. They didn't say that. .
Click to expand...

Why do you characterize politically radical gays as such? You were just taking a shot at them because you don't agree with their position, right? So I kinda did read your post correctly.
 
ecofarm said:
Why do you characterize politically radical gays as such? You were just taking a shot at them because you don't agree with their position, right? So I kinda did read your post correctly.
Click to expand...

Are you gay? How old are you
 
btthegreat said:
Are you gay?
Click to expand...

I don't normally answer that because I refuse to be put on the defensive about something there's nothing wrong with but I guess this is kinda different so I'll answer, no.

But you took a shot at politically radical gay people by painting them as promoting promiscuity.
 
ecofarm said:
I don't normally answer that because I refuse to be put on the defensive about something there's nothing wrong with but I guess this is kinda different so I'll answer, no.

But you took a shot at politically radical gay people by painting them as promoting promiscuity.
Click to expand...
No. This article barely discussed his politics at all. Its real important that you pay attention to how incredibly little of this article was about politics, issues views etc. They close to irrelevant. What did you learn about Pete's views on social, political, economic issues and how they diverged from the authors.
 
Last edited:
ttwtt78640 said:
Other - only if he makes it a factor. I see Buttigieg as a politician who has the ambition to want to please everyone and fix everything but lacks much in the way of setting priorities, breaking larger problems into their smaller components and then addressing each of them. He is mostly all message and no plan.
Click to expand...

Or if Trump makes it an issue, which is more likely.
 
btthegreat said:
How old are you
Click to expand...

I'm about 50. I left a good private university to enlist during Gulf 1. Used the GI Bill to get my BA then an MSc from Europe and then a PhD(c) from the US. I've lived in Europe and Africa for years each and plant to settle/retire in Africa this year.
 
btthegreat said:
No. This article barely discussed his politics at all. Its real important that you pay attention to how incredibly little of this article was about politics, issues views etc. They close to irrelevant. What did you learn about Pete's views on social, political, economic issues and how they diverged from the authors.
Click to expand...

Their complaint was that he has no gay politics. They want a radical agenda. Obviously, that's not as likely to be nominated let alone elected. Nonetheless, I have a soft spot for radicals and I don't see why their bolder push means they should be painted as promiscuous.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm about 50. I left a good private university to enlist during Gulf 1. Used the GI Bill to get my BA then an MSc from Europe and then a PhD(c) from the US. I've lived in Europe and Africa for years each and plant to settle/retire in Africa this year.
Click to expand...
I am a gay man of 58 years old. These questions matter, because how much I explain, and what I have to explain change dramatically depending on what you know about the gay rights movement and subculture pre- HIV and its residue that lingers in the divisions and struggles of the gay rights movement today.
 
btthegreat said:
These questions matter, because how much I explain, and what I have to explain change dramatically depending on what you know about the gay rights movement and culture pre- HIV and its residue that lingers in the divisions of the gay rights movement today.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I believe any such thing as a "gay culture" pre or post HIV. The gay people I've known have all been different.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
Their complaint was that he has no gay politics. They want a radical agenda. Obviously, that's not as likely to be nominated let alone elected. Nonetheless, I have a soft spot for radicals and I don't see why their bolder push means they should be painted as promiscuous.
Click to expand...
I am not painting them as promiscuous but I will clear that up later. Well then you should be able to describe exactly what positions on gay issues they want him to tak,e that he hasn't or doesn't. Maybe you could give me three stances where he fall short of theirs. Its a long article. Lots of paragraphs full of detailed positions on gay rights that are just not far enough for them. What do they want. What doesn't he endorse

1.
2.
3.
 
Last edited:
"Buttigieg is Gay"

Buttigieg has proven to be useless, that is the much bigger story!
 
btthegreat said:
Well then you should be able to describe exactly what positions on gay issues they want him to tak,e that he hasn't or doesn't. Maybe you could give me three stances where he fall short of theirs.
Click to expand...

Federal approval of adoption. Inclusion of sexual orientation as a protected class in employment. There's two off the top of my head.
 
Last edited:
btthegreat said:
Okay I read it.

Not remotely impressed. This crap really pisses me off. Basically they are calling him out for not being hurt enough, angry enough, flamboyant enough, promiscuous enough, early enough or obvious enough to suit them. They are trying to 'uncle Tom' him because he has adopted what some people in the queer movement calls 'heteronormative values'

Values ought not be divided into heteronormative or queer categories in the first place. That way we can pick a little from Column A and a little from column B if we so choose. The whole idea here, is for people to learn to feel comfortable in their own skin, define themselves as they see fit, and NOT be trapped into some stereotype or box by virtue of either their perceived orientation or their actual orientation. The man is basically progressive to liberal politically and right down the line he has fought for gay rights long before he came out as gay. This man was not some republican ass, who opposed the ' homosexual agenda until he got caught in a mens room

but personally Buttigieg feels more comfortable in a suit and tie, living a life without a lot of social risk, and with a hint of well -modesty and conformity . He makes conservative social choices so as not to stick out in a crowd, and that is normally what makes some people successful lawyers, politicians, accountants teachers etc. Well we need those people in our lives too. Conformists like Pete ( and I) also contribute to humanity's endeavors and dreams. And gay men can dare to aspire to be just like that, without being seen as not quite 'gay' enough for Castro Street.

Off my soapbox. Breathing... breathing.... My answer to the question in the OP will be a second post.
Click to expand...

It's true. Internal judgments within the gay community can be just as pointed as judgments that originate outside of it.
 
ecofarm said:
Federal approval of adoption. Inclusion of sexual orientation as a protected class in employment. There's two off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Then please quote the sentences in the link that discuss the disparate positions on these two issues. One describes what his is, and another describes what they want it to be on adoption and employment as a protected class. I did not see what you saw where you saw it.
 
joko104 said:
For certain Democratic devote Muslims will vote for a gay man for president. No one more respects LGBT rights and equality than fundamentalist Muslims. Maybe traditional Chinese more respect LGBT rights. Certainly all black Baptist preachers do.

However, he does have the perpetual white guilt and heterosexual guilt tripping on white people to gain votes from.
Click to expand...

Buttigieg hasn't done that at all. Any guilt that white or straight people feel about being white or straight is self-inflicted.
 
btthegreat said:
Then please quote the sentences in the link that discuss the disparate positions on these two issues. One describes what his is, and another describes what they want it to be on adoption and employment as a protected class. I did not see what you saw where you saw it.
Click to expand...

Is Pete pushing for federal adoption? Protected employment? I am. But I don't see him doing it.
 
ecofarm said:
Is Pete pushing for federal adoption? Protected employment? I am. But I don't see him doing it.
Click to expand...
So I take it that we agree that the links do not discuss his views on adoption or protected employment or other 'failings' in his views on gay rights or you would know what his views are, and you would be able to quote from the links. . Then that cannot be why they wrote all those words, now can it?

That is a primary point I am making. I know when someone is slamming someone because their gay rights views are not radical enough. I have had those conversations. That is what I expected to find. But I didn't. I got a lot of talk about how he is too 'straight' to be gay enough but it was not about his politics or his policies on gay rights. They went a different direction.
 
btthegreat said:
So I take it that we agree that the links do not discuss his views on adoption or protected employment or other 'failings' in his views on gay rights. Then that cannot be why they wrote all those words, now can it?

That is primary point I am making. I know when someone is slamming someone because their gay rights views are not radical enough. That is what I expected to find. But I didn't. I got a lot of talk about how he is too 'straight' to be gay enough but it was not about his politics or his policies on gay rights. They went a different direction.
Click to expand...

The article was descriptive not analytic. We could research his positions and how hard he's pushed them. I'm sure all of them could be more intensively addressed because Pete is not a radical.

Unless we're to presume Pete is radical on gay rights, which I'd guess he isn't, then they merely have to ask for more or sooner to take the more radical position. There's just no way any of his positions are beyond reproach.

The article could have listed every gay rights position that exists and then claimed, for each, that they want more from Pete. But they chose to spend their space descriptively.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm not sure I believe any such thing as a "gay culture" pre or post HIV. The gay people I've known have all been different.
Click to expand...

There is indeed a gay subculture, but it isn't homogenous.
 
ecofarm said:
The article was descriptive not analytic. We could research his positions and how hard he's pushed them. I'm sure all of them could be more intensively addressed because Pete is not a radical.

Unless we're to presume Pete is radical on gay rights, which I'd guess he isn't, then they merely have to ask for more or sooner to take the more radical position. There's just no way any of his positions are beyond reproach.

The article could have listed every gay rights position that exists and then claimed, for each, that they want more from Pete. But they chose to spend their space descriptively.
Click to expand...
I did not ask for every gay rights position. I asked for 3. Ecofarm. 3 sentences dealing directly with gay rights and we have two documents as separate links from which you could draw those sentences. You have not managed one. So this is not about his views on gay rights not being 'radical' enough. You are asserting something for which there is utterly no evidence. You like the word 'descriptive' I do too. Now what do you think they are describing in all that length if its not his views on the gay rights agenda? Use that vast reservoir of past experience and understanding of gay subcultural subtext and help me out?

Or maybe you can just accept that they are doing something else you don't quite get, and that is what pisses me off. They are doing the gay equivilant of 'uncle toming' him as 'heteronormative' without saying it.
 
Last edited:
It seems pretty obvious it has. How else would an unknown mayor of a small town (without a couple of 100 million dollars to bank roll him) get as far as he has without a gimmick? The only thing that actually separates him from the other candidates is his sexuality and lack of any kind of credentials.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom