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Is The DNC Against Bernie?

Is The DNC Against Bernie?

  • Total voters
    67
Ikari said:
Well MSNBC certainly seems to hate Sanders.
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Any nominee that offers great change already knows , with great change comes hate consider who hates Sanders more the big corporations, the drug companies or the young people and the working class.A lot of people must like him they donate money to his campaign these ain't millionaires ad billionaires.

Some say if people want to keep their own insurance through work they should be able to.

Question; how much money does the average Insurance company pay out to the average American worker?
I n today's economy not too many working people can afford to take off work to see a doctor let alone be treated by one.


Question when any American worker loses their job because of lay offs or outsourcing or cut backs or gets too old or is disabled will the employer still pay for the workers insurance???:peace
 
Waddy said:
Very gentlemanly of you to man up on a mistake.

That's right; we NEVER pay the actual principal on our debt. We ONLY pay the interest. That debt is held as bonds, anywhere from short term to 30 years. China has a lot of those bonds. They CANNOT call in that debt anytime they want. ONLY when the bond matures (becomes due). THAT is when we roll it over into a new bond, which pays off the old bond. New bonds are put up for bid all the time. They are called Treasury Bonds, or usually just Treasuries.

Let's say we issued a $10,000 ten year bond for bid 30 years ago. At ten years that bond "matured" and came due. We ONLY paid the interest on that bond over it's 10 years, so actually we paid maybe an additional $2,000 to borrow that money. So we "roll over" the original bond by issuing a new 10 year bond, only now we need to cover that principal and interest, so the new bond is $12,000. Another 10 years goes by. Now we owe $12,000 + interest. So let's say the interest this time is $3,000. So we roll over the bond and issue a new one for bid, only this time we need to offer a $15,000 bond to cover principal and interest.

Remember, we haven't actually gotten any additional money, ONLY that original $10,000 thirty years ago. So repeat this a few more times and you soon realize we might pay several times over the original $10,000 we borrowed. Interest is a bytch.

So one of the ways we now try to control all this debt is by putting a lot more money into circulation. (That's called "monetizing the debt" and it's what we accuse other countries of. Not supposed to do that). Not necessarily actually printing more dollars, but by electronically depositing massive amounts of funds into the big banks. You want a fairly cheap dollar and low interest rates to keep on top of this debt Ponzi scheme. THAT'S why the government wants inflation. It's easier to pay that interest with cheap dollars. Trouble is, inflation hasn't picked up AS MUCH as they would like because we are becoming ever more technological, and technology is inherently deflative.
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I have a better suggestion of trying to control the debt .
More people working at a higher wage . It seems like the rich are always saying we pay more taxes.based on what income?
The American workers income was at one time based on .. well the saying was "the more you make the more they take"
A saying that i can attest proved to be quite true , I was at a very young age when after working all that overtime to save money for a car was informed by the IRS you owe more taxes
The first of more than a few,
I remember too often looking at the gross and saying yah!! and then looking at the net and saying damn. too often there were tear stains left on many a paycheck , but after te bitching and griping pretty much everybody kept working after all tax dollars are for our country we are Americans are we not..
Tax evasion was a bit popular in the 50's and early 60's ever hear of it today? ever wander WHY.:peace
 
Ikari said:
Well MSNBC certainly seems to hate Sanders.
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You’ve said you won’t vote for Sen. Sanders, Ikari.

In spite of his spiteful cult, I will vote for Bernie if I have to.
 
Linc said:
You’ve said you won’t vote for Sen. Sanders, Ikari.

In spite of his spiteful cult, I will vote for Bernie if I have to.
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What does any of that have to do with my comment?
 
presluc said:
I have a better suggestion of trying to control the debt .
More people working at a higher wage . It seems like the rich are always saying we pay more taxes.based on what income?
The American workers income was at one time based on .. well the saying was "the more you make the more they take"
A saying that i can attest proved to be quite true , I was at a very young age when after working all that overtime to save money for a car was informed by the IRS you owe more taxes
The first of more than a few,
I remember too often looking at the gross and saying yah!! and then looking at the net and saying damn. too often there were tear stains left on many a paycheck , but after te bitching and griping pretty much everybody kept working after all tax dollars are for our country we are Americans are we not..
Tax evasion was a bit popular in the 50's and early 60's ever hear of it today? ever wander WHY.:peace
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You aren't just in competition with other American workers anymore. Those days are long gone. Now you are competing with a guy making a dollar a day in some foreign country. He gets no vacation, no health care, and no retirement. THAT'S your competition.

Let's say you make widgets. Your competitors move overseas so the can avoid taxes, OSHA, the EPA and hire that dollar a day guy. You would like to make your widgets right here in the good ol' USA. How much will you pay your employees? How many raises will they get? Fact is, they will be doing good to make $10 per hour. And there are plenty of illegal immigrants willing to work for far less than $10. That is the modern US labor market.
 
Waddy said:
You aren't just in competition with other American workers anymore. Those days are long gone. Now you are competing with a guy making a dollar a day in some foreign country. He gets no vacation, no health care, and no retirement. THAT'S your competition.

Let's say you make widgets. Your competitors move overseas so the can avoid taxes, OSHA, the EPA and hire that dollar a day guy. You would like to make your widgets right here in the good ol' USA. How much will you pay your employees? How many raises will they get? Fact is, they will be doing good to make $10 per hour. And there are plenty of illegal immigrants willing to work for far less than $10. That is the modern US labor market.
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I 'm pretty sure ain't too many foreign workers sitting up nights worrying about the American worker why should the American worker be concerned with them
I'm pretty sure the American corporations that outsource jobs should be more concerned with the foreign workers than I . They should be concerned about the people they might start to want more like the Hong Kong protests the Lebanon protests, then there's the unlikely occurrence of an outbreak in sickness like a virus?
The Corporations also has something else to worry about if American workers aren't good enough to work and get paid by an American corporation why buy products from an American corporation, after all there is foreign products made by foreign workers sold in America this is globalism is it not?

Widgets ??? How come everytime you right wingers want to discuss products it's always widgets a fantasy product ??

It is not a question of where I make my widgets it is a question of where I really want to SELL my widgets.

Now if I open up American factories and hire American workers and live in America who is my target consumer?
American the name pretty much sells itself by word of mouth plus T.V.ads
I'm making a profit the American workers are paying taxes and spending money.

Now if I say sorry I'm closing down most of these factories the workers will have to find other work., I'm letting the huge majority of workers go in the factories I have left ,I will pay foreign workers now cheaper.

However you can still buy my widgets at most stores the price will be the same even though they cost cheaper to make and I still get a tax cut from the government and if I should run into financial difficulty I can count on the government to bail me out..

You can still buy my Widgets foreign made by foreign workers who pay no taxes., perhaps pay a little more cost of living ya know.


No need for me to worry it's not like the American consumers are going to start buying foreign widgets over American widget they would never do that would they?????:peace
 
presluc said:
I 'm pretty sure ain't too many foreign workers sitting up nights worrying about the American worker why should the American worker be concerned with them
I'm pretty sure the American corporations that outsource jobs should be more concerned with the foreign workers than I . They should be concerned about the people they might start to want more like the Hong Kong protests the Lebanon protests, then there's the unlikely occurrence of an outbreak in sickness like a virus?
The Corporations also has something else to worry about if American workers aren't good enough to work and get paid by an American corporation why buy products from an American corporation, after all there is foreign products made by foreign workers sold in America this is globalism is it not?

Widgets ??? How come everytime you right wingers want to discuss products it's always widgets a fantasy product ??

It is not a question of where I make my widgets it is a question of where I really want to SELL my widgets.

Now if I open up American factories and hire American workers and live in America who is my target consumer?
American the name pretty much sells itself by word of mouth plus T.V.ads
I'm making a profit the American workers are paying taxes and spending money.

Now if I say sorry I'm closing down most of these factories the workers will have to find other work., I'm letting the huge majority of workers go in the factories I have left ,I will pay foreign workers now cheaper.

However you can still buy my widgets at most stores the price will be the same even though they cost cheaper to make and I still get a tax cut from the government and if I should run into financial difficulty I can count on the government to bail me out..

You can still buy my Widgets foreign made by foreign workers who pay no taxes., perhaps pay a little more cost of living ya know.


No need for me to worry it's not like the American consumers are going to start buying foreign widgets over American widget they would never do that would they?????:peace
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GM sells more cars in China than they do here. Think about it. No wonder they are moving production to other countries. Consumers buy based on price, and foreign production often means lower prices. Been in a Walmart recently? Very few American made products in there. Most car parts are now made in foreign countries.

But why has a lot of manufacturing remained in America if offshore is so cheap? Automation, you know, that other reason why US workers aren't getting pay raises; automation has made some types of manufacturing feasible here. But the question for management is; do you give out regular pay raises or invest in more automation? The answer is clear; automation.

Automation doesn't unionize. It doesn't need vacations or health care. I doesn't go on strike. Automation can work 24/7, even on holidays. Humans are only good to keep on the job so long as they are cheaper than automating the operation.
 
Waddy said:
GM sells more cars in China than they do here. Think about it. No wonder they are moving production to other countries. Consumers buy based on price, and foreign production often means lower prices. Been in a Walmart recently? Very few American made products in there. Most car parts are now made in foreign countries.

But why has a lot of manufacturing remained in America if offshore is so cheap? Automation, you know, that other reason why US workers aren't getting pay raises; automation has made some types of manufacturing feasible here. But the question for management is; do you give out regular pay raises or invest in more automation? The answer is clear; automation.

Automation doesn't unionize. It doesn't need vacations or health care. I doesn't go on strike. Automation can work 24/7, even on holidays. Humans are only good to keep on the job so long as they are cheaper than automating the operation.
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First of all I worked on the lines in Michigan I know one thing if GM could make more money selling cars in China they would move to China.
Gm left Ohio because they didn't get enough of a tax break,
I know about Auto companies,like GM part of the Bailouts , Chrysler or is it Fiat, Ford sell cars and trucks invest heavily in anything you can
I also know when the Auto companies made a move on the Auto unions and the union sold out.
I also know when and why Foreign cars stated outselling American cars and are today.

Yeah about that Manufacturing being replaced by automation .
You stated a lot of things automation doesn't do union ize , go on strike,need vacation or health care .
There is some things automation needs care and maintenance, selter .
There are afew other things automation doesn't do., PAY TAXES, SPEND MONEY ,BUY THINGS,VOTE .

If this is true why not put up factories for automation in America instead of outsourcing ?
It's not like we don't have automation in America, after all it would save fuel from going back and forth to drop off unfinished parts to pick up finished parts
Isn't all American's supposed to conserve oil?.
 
presluc said:
First of all I worked on the lines in Michigan I know one thing if GM could make more money selling cars in China they would move to China.
Gm left Ohio because they didn't get enough of a tax break,
I know about Auto companies,like GM part of the Bailouts , Chrysler or is it Fiat, Ford sell cars and trucks invest heavily in anything you can
I also know when the Auto companies made a move on the Auto unions and the union sold out.
I also know when and why Foreign cars stated outselling American cars and are today.

Yeah about that Manufacturing being replaced by automation .
You stated a lot of things automation doesn't do union ize , go on strike,need vacation or health care .
There is some things automation needs care and maintenance, selter .
There are afew other things automation doesn't do., PAY TAXES, SPEND MONEY ,BUY THINGS,VOTE .

If this is true why not put up factories for automation in America instead of outsourcing ?
It's not like we don't have automation in America, after all it would save fuel from going back and forth to drop off unfinished parts to pick up finished parts
Isn't all American's supposed to conserve oil?.
Click to expand...

GM is moving to China. (And Chinese cars are coming here soon). One by one they are moving their operations offshore; because that's where the market is growing. They will keep some plants here to service the market here, but in a global economy places like China are growing in demand, where the US is basically flat. Where would you locate your plant; where the market is flat or demand keeps growing? China has three times our population, and they are growing the middle class there.

It isn't GM's concern or any other manufacturer whether US citizens pay taxes, have money to spend, or even vote. They will go where people do have the money, and now that's offshore, like China. And other fast growing economies.

Where would you locate your cell phone company; in the US where everyone already has a cell phone, or say, Africa, where everybody wants a cell phone but almost no one has a cell phone. The growing market is obviously Africa. You would want to get in on the ground floor there. A huge market.

Actually, American factories have automated. But some things are still cheaper to do with cheap labor; like textiles. Asian women still sew together the shirts and pants you buy. That used to be done here. But Asian labor is much, much cheaper. CHEAPER than automation. When the day comes, if ever, that it is cheaper to automate clothing manufacturing then it will be automated.

Look, I'm just telling you how the world operates in a global economy. You go where you get the best overall deal if you're a business person. You have to, because your competitors will. And you have to keep labor costs in line with your competition. Often automation helps you achieve that.

Face the fact that globalization is a process of leveling the labor market. Our labor will stay fairly flat or even go down some, while that cheap foreign labor will seek to move up.

As I've stated MANY times, and told my own kids; you HAVE to have tech skills in this labor market. Good, marketable skills. Haven't you noticed that even the skilled trades, like electrician, machinist, plumber, and auto mechanics have become much more technical? The old days of learning auto mechanics beside your father and then going out and making a good living are over. Just being able to twist a wrench doesn't count for much anymore. You better be good with computers.

People with marketable skills, who can keep all the high tech running, are in demand and will get those raises. Unfortunately, few of our young people are being educated well enough to take advantage of those opportunities.
 
Given what we've seen over the last four years. I'd have to say yes.
 
Waddy said:
GM is moving to China. (And Chinese cars are coming here soon). One by one they are moving their operations offshore; because that's where the market is growing. They will keep some plants here to service the market here, but in a global economy places like China are growing in demand, where the US is basically flat. Where would you locate your plant; where the market is flat or demand keeps growing? China has three times our population, and they are growing the middle class there.

It isn't GM's concern or any other manufacturer whether US citizens pay taxes, have money to spend, or even vote. They will go where people do have the money, and now that's offshore, like China. And other fast growing economies.

Where would you locate your cell phone company; in the US where everyone already has a cell phone, or say, Africa, where everybody wants a cell phone but almost no one has a cell phone. The growing market is obviously Africa. You would want to get in on the ground floor there. A huge market.

Actually, American factories have automated. But some things are still cheaper to do with cheap labor; like textiles. Asian women still sew together the shirts and pants you buy. That used to be done here. But Asian labor is much, much cheaper. CHEAPER than automation. When the day comes, if ever, that it is cheaper to automate clothing manufacturing then it will be automated.

Look, I'm just telling you how the world operates in a global economy. You go where you get the best overall deal if you're a business person. You have to, because your competitors will. And you have to keep labor costs in line with your competition. Often automation helps you achieve that.

Face the fact that globalization is a process of leveling the labor market. Our labor will stay fairly flat or even go down some, while that cheap foreign labor will seek to move up.

As I've stated MANY times, and told my own kids; you HAVE to have tech skills in this labor market. Good, marketable skills. Haven't you noticed that even the skilled trades, like electrician, machinist, plumber, and auto mechanics have become much more technical? The old days of learning auto mechanics beside your father and then going out and making a good living are over. Just being able to twist a wrench doesn't count for much anymore. You better be good with computers.

People with marketable skills, who can keep all the high tech running, are in demand and will get those raises. Unfortunately, few of our young people are being educated well enough to take advantage of those opportunities.
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GM moving to China where WUHAN province, in case you haven't heard there's a little thing called the Corona Virus in China plus the trade war between Trump and China I haven't heard how that went , Who's to say China wants them and if they go coming back might not be so easy.
Anyway if GM doesn't care about Americans paying taxes or having jobs or even voting in America. Why the Hell would Americans want them back.

Yeah buddy big money in Africa that's why they have those T.V. ads about the African children starving to death.
You right wingers take too much for granted you look at Africa and say this country needs CELL PHONES , you don't think about Darfur , or the deserts ?

Oh you ain't talking about cheaper for America and Americans you are talking about more profits for corporations.
Cheap labor make something cheap sell high no American tax revenue, no American paychecks just more money for CEOS.
One drawback Foreign Corporations can even do it cheaper and sell basically the same products. this puts a dent in those profits for CEOS GLOBALIZATION YA KNOW .

Hard to believe, WALMARTS hit Forbes again this year., Honda, Hyundai, Kia are outselling American products, on line Samsung, Sanyo just a few of the T.V,s , Cellphones where to start video games. you tell me wheres the market on these American products or foreign ??


I 'm glad you care about the world so much because these American corporations that outsource jobs are helping it on two fronts they hire Foreign workers that pay foreign nations , and they import Foreign products to sell to Americans.

Well ya got one thing right, Cheap Labor will want a lot more not a matter of if a matter of when.

As for me I care about the world too , but I care about my little patch of it "America" a little bit more , perhaps I'm selfish but I want American people with good paying jobs paying taxes and buying American products I want America to have the best progres

High technology is good but without the people who make computers , without the actual hands on developers of anything that is used where are you? where are your engineers architects without the builders I haven't heard of any A I yet, anyway China is ahead of the U.S in that department.:peace
 
presluc said:
GM moving to China where WUHAN province, in case you haven't heard there's a little thing called the Corona Virus in China plus the trade war between Trump and China I haven't heard how that went , Who's to say China wants them and if they go coming back might not be so easy.
Anyway if GM doesn't care about Americans paying taxes or having jobs or even voting in America. Why the Hell would Americans want them back.

Yeah buddy big money in Africa that's why they have those T.V. ads about the African children starving to death.
You right wingers take too much for granted you look at Africa and say this country needs CELL PHONES , you don't think about Darfur , or the deserts ?

Oh you ain't talking about cheaper for America and Americans you are talking about more profits for corporations.
Cheap labor make something cheap sell high no American tax revenue, no American paychecks just more money for CEOS.
One drawback Foreign Corporations can even do it cheaper and sell basically the same products. this puts a dent in those profits for CEOS GLOBALIZATION YA KNOW .

Hard to believe, WALMARTS hit Forbes again this year., Honda, Hyundai, Kia are outselling American products, on line Samsung, Sanyo just a few of the T.V,s , Cellphones where to start video games. you tell me wheres the market on these American products or foreign ??


I 'm glad you care about the world so much because these American corporations that outsource jobs are helping it on two fronts they hire Foreign workers that pay foreign nations , and they import Foreign products to sell to Americans.

Well ya got one thing right, Cheap Labor will want a lot more not a matter of if a matter of when.

As for me I care about the world too , but I care about my little patch of it "America" a little bit more , perhaps I'm selfish but I want American people with good paying jobs paying taxes and buying American products I want America to have the best progres

High technology is good but without the people who make computers , without the actual hands on developers of anything that is used where are you? where are your engineers architects without the builders I haven't heard of any A I yet, anyway China is ahead of the U.S in that department.:peace
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The developing world is the market. There is much more growth potential overseas than there is here. Just a fact of life. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

And it isn't the job of corporations to care about whether you vote or even have a job. Their goal is to provide goods and services at the lowest cost to whomever is willing and able to pay. That might be Americans or someone else. And it will provide jobs for people in the process, maybe Americans or someone else. That's because they have an obligation to their shareholders first and foremost. So you can whine all you want, they are doing their job.

I also care about this country, but I'm a realist. We now live in a global economy. The "good ol' days' are history. We have to compete globally. That means LABOR is competing with low wage labor in foreign countries. Unskilled and semiskilled workers are a dime a dozen. If you want to make those good wages you better get some serious tech skills. THAT'S the bottom line.

And THAT'S what you keep ignoring. Every person in America who has those tech skills is making good money. There are six million unfilled SKILLED jobs open right now because there aren't enough people to fill them. Good paying jobs. Good paying AMERICAN jobs. If you really care about America as much as you claim, you would be promoting tech education and fight to make our education system, which is a total failure, do a better job of preparing young people for the future.

But, no, it's a lot easier to whine and complain about corporations.
 
Waddy said:
The developing world is the market. There is much more growth potential overseas than there is here. Just a fact of life. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

And it isn't the job of corporations to care about whether you vote or even have a job. Their goal is to provide goods and services at the lowest cost to whomever is willing and able to pay. That might be Americans or someone else. And it will provide jobs for people in the process, maybe Americans or someone else. That's because they have an obligation to their shareholders first and foremost. So you can whine all you want, they are doing their job.

I also care about this country, but I'm a realist. We now live in a global economy. The "good ol' days' are history. We have to compete globally. That means LABOR is competing with low wage labor in foreign countries. Unskilled and semiskilled workers are a dime a dozen. If you want to make those good wages you better get some serious tech skills. THAT'S the bottom line.

And THAT'S what you keep ignoring. Every person in America who has those tech skills is making good money. There are six million unfilled SKILLED jobs open right now because there aren't enough people to fill them. Good paying jobs. Good paying AMERICAN jobs. If you really care about America as much as you claim, you would be promoting tech education and fight to make our education system, which is a total failure, do a better job of preparing young people for the future.

But, no, it's a lot easier to whine and complain about corporations.
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These are your words are they not "There is much more growth potential overseas than there is here "
Question,; WHY??? Why are there much more growth potential overseas than here??
I mean what is America 2nd rate now to overseas growth potential , if so why???

I've heard this " it isn't the job of corporations," it isn't the obligation of corporations" crap before , let me give you the short version.
"It is not the obligation of any American corporation to provide jobs to the American worker"
That's pretty much what you've heard and what you are saying right?

Evidently, you didn't stick around for the response, response from the American labor/consumer.
"It is not the obligation of the American labor/consumer to buy American made products " That old "BE PATRIOTIC BUY AMERICAN LEFT WITH AMERICAN JOBS.
So to the American corporations that outsource jobs the American worker says you can file chapter 7 or 11, or you can go crying like a bitch to the Government when those retail sales start to drop into red ink that's the bottom line.

Has far as High Tech jobs ,personally they would not benefit me I am long since retired from the work place.
However, where are these low cost High Tech training schools/colleges where are the on the job training classes paid for as you work.

How many times in the last 10 years has education been cut, how many times has teachers got a raise ?

As I have said I have nothing to gain from this, but young people do especially coming out of High school and unless I'm mistaken College graduates don't have it so easy either.
WHY???:peace
 
presluc said:
These are your words are they not "There is much more growth potential overseas than there is here "
Question,; WHY??? Why are there much more growth potential overseas than here??
I mean what is America 2nd rate now to overseas growth potential , if so why???

I've heard this " it isn't the job of corporations," it isn't the obligation of corporations" crap before , let me give you the short version.
"It is not the obligation of any American corporation to provide jobs to the American worker"
That's pretty much what you've heard and what you are saying right?

Evidently, you didn't stick around for the response, response from the American labor/consumer.
"It is not the obligation of the American labor/consumer to buy American made products " That old "BE PATRIOTIC BUY AMERICAN LEFT WITH AMERICAN JOBS.
So to the American corporations that outsource jobs the American worker says you can file chapter 7 or 11, or you can go crying like a bitch to the Government when those retail sales start to drop into red ink that's the bottom line.

Has far as High Tech jobs ,personally they would not benefit me I am long since retired from the work place.
However, where are these low cost High Tech training schools/colleges where are the on the job training classes paid for as you work.

How many times in the last 10 years has education been cut, how many times has teachers got a raise ?

As I have said I have nothing to gain from this, but young people do especially coming out of High school and unless I'm mistaken College graduates don't have it so easy either.
WHY???:peace
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Think about it. We are a developed country. Our population wouldn't even be growing at all were it not for immigrants. Everybody has two cars and four TV's. Everybody has a cell phone. And we're only 300 million people. China is 1.5 BILLION and they need, and want everything we have. Africa is another billion people on the move wanting the American middle class lifestyle. Where do you see the best growth for the future of your company?

That's right; corporations are businesses; their main obligation is to make a profit for shareholders. Not create jobs. That they do create some jobs is just a side benefit.

Show me where those sales of cheap goods are "falling". Walmart seems to be doing well. Fact is, Americans don't give a rat's ass where something is made. Americans shop by price. The cheaper the better.

I call BS on your last part. Education hasn't been "cut'. It has more money than ever. K-12 public school teachers are paid damn good for a 180 day work year. It's the best part time job in the world.

Students coming out of high school prepared for higher level tech education are doing just fine. College grads with marketable high tech skills are doing great. The ones who majored in liberal arts like Medieval French Poetry ain't doing so well. That's not really a skill; it's a hobby.

So quit with the whining and excuses. I've laid out pretty clearly what the situation is and how a person achieves a good income in today's economic realities. Denial is a river in Egypt.
 
Waddy said:
Think about it. We are a developed country. Our population wouldn't even be growing at all were it not for immigrants. Everybody has two cars and four TV's. Everybody has a cell phone. And we're only 300 million people. China is 1.5 BILLION and they need, and want everything we have. Africa is another billion people on the move wanting the American middle class lifestyle. Where do you see the best growth for the future of your company?

That's right; corporations are businesses; their main obligation is to make a profit for shareholders. Not create jobs. That they do create some jobs is just a side benefit.

Show me where those sales of cheap goods are "falling". Walmart seems to be doing well. Fact is, Americans don't give a rat's ass where something is made. Americans shop by price. The cheaper the better.

I call BS on your last part. Education hasn't been "cut'. It has more money than ever. K-12 public school teachers are paid damn good for a 180 day work year. It's the best part time job in the world.

Students coming out of high school prepared for higher level tech education are doing just fine. College grads with marketable high tech skills are doing great. The ones who majored in liberal arts like Medieval French Poetry ain't doing so well. That's not really a skill; it's a hobby.

So quit with the whining and excuses. I've laid out pretty clearly what the situation is and how a person achieves a good income in today's economic realities. Denial is a river in Egypt.
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You think about it how did America get developed hard working American from blue collar jobs down developed into what ?
Where the CEOS say I got mine see ya.
Everybody has 2 cars and 4 TV'S don't get out much do ya.
How many American/ vets people homeless in America today, question are they all bums that are just waiting for a handout????

If that is true then post that on a website saying American labor is no longer needed by American corporations
I remind you sir who the target consumer is for American label products it used to be American made but well?
The Target consumer is American. you remember the same Americans who's pension got kicked to the curb after outsourcing the same Americans that in Michigan alone lost over 400, 000 jobs which in turn a lot of houses got foreclosed on.

Walmart is doing extremely well as bad as the prices paid to workers are there is a line waiting to get hired at Walmart stores. Most of the products in Walmarts are foreign owned and foreign made . so everytime America buys foreign owned foreign made it helps American products how???

So you call BS on education being cut??
Everybody keeps saying money keeps going into education , which I agree with but I know for fact that the teachers were investigated many left after the fallout in Wisconsin over a teachers strike . the schools have been investigated 3 were closed in Michigan not bad schools just closed.

However the one place that has never been investigated the Board of Education , WHY?
I mean you got all this money going into education seems you would at least take a look at the books .
Where's all that money going to private schools???

I've laid out the situation too, excuses are a dime a dozen I've heard them before from an American store called Big Wheel , Bargain City, too old how about these.
Sears, J. C Penny just a few who fell after Walmart came to town.where are they today?

In 1999 although on shaky ground some thought the big 3 GM, Chrysler, and Ford would catch up and pass the Japanese by the year 2025.
Chrysler was the first losing controlling interest to Fiat, GM if they still owed from the bailouts wouldn't surprise me. at best shaky. Ford if it wasn't for their investments they would be in the same boat.
Question compare American ma ,, labels to Foreign owned and foreign made anyday.Compare exports to imports anyday.

When it comes to globalization just like any market one must compete or just stand by and shell out money .

If America is competing "which I don't see they are " they are losing at a bad rate.:peace
 
Kind of the same way many republicans were against Trump.
 
presluc said:
You think about it how did America get developed hard working American from blue collar jobs down developed into what ?
Where the CEOS say I got mine see ya.
Everybody has 2 cars and 4 TV'S don't get out much do ya.
How many American/ vets people homeless in America today, question are they all bums that are just waiting for a handout????

If that is true then post that on a website saying American labor is no longer needed by American corporations
I remind you sir who the target consumer is for American label products it used to be American made but well?
The Target consumer is American. you remember the same Americans who's pension got kicked to the curb after outsourcing the same Americans that in Michigan alone lost over 400, 000 jobs which in turn a lot of houses got foreclosed on.

Walmart is doing extremely well as bad as the prices paid to workers are there is a line waiting to get hired at Walmart stores. Most of the products in Walmarts are foreign owned and foreign made . so everytime America buys foreign owned foreign made it helps American products how???

So you call BS on education being cut??
Everybody keeps saying money keeps going into education , which I agree with but I know for fact that the teachers were investigated many left after the fallout in Wisconsin over a teachers strike . the schools have been investigated 3 were closed in Michigan not bad schools just closed.

However the one place that has never been investigated the Board of Education , WHY?
I mean you got all this money going into education seems you would at least take a look at the books .
Where's all that money going to private schools???

I've laid out the situation too, excuses are a dime a dozen I've heard them before from an American store called Big Wheel , Bargain City, too old how about these.
Sears, J. C Penny just a few who fell after Walmart came to town.where are they today?

In 1999 although on shaky ground some thought the big 3 GM, Chrysler, and Ford would catch up and pass the Japanese by the year 2025.
Chrysler was the first losing controlling interest to Fiat, GM if they still owed from the bailouts wouldn't surprise me. at best shaky. Ford if it wasn't for their investments they would be in the same boat.
Question compare American ma ,, labels to Foreign owned and foreign made anyday.Compare exports to imports anyday.

When it comes to globalization just like any market one must compete or just stand by and shell out money .

If America is competing "which I don't see they are " they are losing at a bad rate.:peace
Click to expand...

I don't know how much more I can say. We live in a global market. American labor now has to compete with cheap foreign labor. Guess who wins that one. And the US market isn't the bigh draw it once was. markets are saturated here with consumer goods. So companies, like GM, are looking to foreign countries for growth. BTW; it's that growth that funds your retirement pension and health care benefits.

But yes, if American companies, and American labor can't compete, then they will lose out.
 
Lovebug said:
Ok, seems plausible, but I don't think it is quite that simple. Bernie had to run against someone who expected a coronation back then, now it is a bit more even.
Click to expand...

It is no more even, it's just that there are now more "moderate" (center left) candidates running so Sanders' 30% (or so) share of the vote makes him the frontrunner. There is still more support for "moderate" (center left) candidates just among the demorat primary voters than for the "progressive" (far left) candidates (Sanders and Warren).
 
Waddy said:
I don't know how much more I can say. We live in a global market. American labor now has to compete with cheap foreign labor. Guess who wins that one. And the US market isn't the bigh draw it once was. markets are saturated here with consumer goods. So companies, like GM, are looking to foreign countries for growth. BTW; it's that growth that funds your retirement pension and health care benefits.

But yes, if American companies, and American labor can't compete, then they will lose out.
Click to expand...

The same system can work for America that works anywhere in the world .
If you base you products on money and not greed..
If you brought back American jobs gave the workers a significant raise . then you could sell American made products .
The last time I said this somebody said the Corporations would lose money.
The corporations are losing money now.
The America labors average wage has never been even with the cost of living , if you don't know that then stop reading ,no help for you you have been brainwashed..

It was close once in the 50's and early 60's but since 1980 well???

This much I know Americans love to spend money give them extra money the first thing they'll do is pay of outstanding debts .

The second thing is spend money on what?? products but whose???:peace


'
 
presluc said:
The same system can work for America that works anywhere in the world .
If you base you products on money and not greed..
If you brought back American jobs gave the workers a significant raise . then you could sell American made products .
The last time I said this somebody said the Corporations would lose money.
The corporations are losing money now.
The America labors average wage has never been even with the cost of living , if you don't know that then stop reading ,no help for you you have been brainwashed..

It was close once in the 50's and early 60's but since 1980 well???

This much I know Americans love to spend money give them extra money the first thing they'll do is pay of outstanding debts .

The second thing is spend money on what?? products but whose???:peace


'
Click to expand...

Americans buy at the cheapest price available. Guess where that comes from. And that's what the rest of the world does. If you want Americans to buy American, then you should support Trump's tariffs. They make foreign imports more expensive. So people are likely to buy more American made stuff.

American wages are outstanding compared to China, Mexico and Taiwan, where much of the imports come from.
 
Waddy said:
Americans buy at the cheapest price available. Guess where that comes from. And that's what the rest of the world does. If you want Americans to buy American, then you should support Trump's tariffs. They make foreign imports more expensive. So people are likely to buy more American made stuff.

American wages are outstanding compared to China, Mexico and Taiwan, where much of the imports come from.
Click to expand...

First of all might want to check on Trumps tariffs.
First check with China , are they worried about tariffs right now?
Second check on the farmers that were effected by Trumps tariffs

Americans do not live in China Taiwan., and if things are so good in Mexico why are all the Mexican people coming here???

People buy more stuff when their paycheck matches or get's close to or is even in the vicinity of the prices they see.

Don't take no math genius to figure out how that happens, of course you could keep giving more money to the rich and wait for that all to popular drip down,
but I gotta tell ya that crap started in 2000 , only thing I've seen come down is factory closings , house foreclosures Chapter 7's and chapter 11's , budget cuts and oh yeah more budget cuts.:peace
 
presluc said:
First of all might want to check on Trumps tariffs.
First check with China , are they worried about tariffs right now?
Second check on the farmers that were effected by Trumps tariffs

Americans do not live in China Taiwan., and if things are so good in Mexico why are all the Mexican people coming here???

People buy more stuff when their paycheck matches or get's close to or is even in the vicinity of the prices they see.

Don't take no math genius to figure out how that happens, of course you could keep giving more money to the rich and wait for that all to popular drip down,
but I gotta tell ya that crap started in 2000 , only thing I've seen come down is factory closings , house foreclosures Chapter 7's and chapter 11's , budget cuts and oh yeah more budget cuts.:peace
Click to expand...

You're living in a dream world. You expect Americans to buy American no matter that they are higher priced. That ain't how Americans are set up. We like cheap stuff. That's why Walmart does so well. Cheap Chinese products are just fine with Americans.

Time to face the fact that American workers are in direct competition with cheap foreign workers. Either an American based company holds the line on labor costs, or their overseas competitors will put them out of business.

Back in those 1950's and 60's that you dream about America was the last man standing. most other countries, like japan, China, and all of Europe, were in ruins. We had no competition. Everybody wanted our products because we were the only country producing products. THAT world is history. Today those countries are our competitors, and they are doing a fine job of it.

So wake up to reality. We have to compete. Americans want cheap Chinese goods. And the Chinese are getting very good at producing good products at cheap prices.

Recently I contacted several American guitar companies and asked if they would build me an electric guitar with a wider than normal neck. I wanted a 1.8" nut on the neck. They all turned me down; they didn't do that kind of work. I found a Chinese company who was glad to make me a guitar to my specifications. And it only cost me $400..... It plays great. Better than my $1000 Fender.

The world is changing. Best to adjust, wrap your mind around it, and get the right skills.
 
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